ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ammonsh on June 23, 2016, 11:34:14 PM
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I recently lost power all at once to my headlight, turn signals, horn, brake light and 12v accessory. The bike runs and charges fine. The normal fuse stack fuses are all ok. After doing some research, it seems that my problem might be the #3 high voltage fuse (250V 4amp).
So I took it out. It is the type that is filled with sand, so you can't see if it is blown. I ordered a new one which should arrive today.
NOW I can't find the fuse cap!!! crap! Does anyone know where I can find one? I don't use fast charging, so would it be alright to take out one of the other fuses and use the cap off of it? The #3 fuse on the diagram attached is the culprit.
Please help. I miss my bike and can't ride with out any lights.
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I have no idea about a fuse cap, but a fuse continuity test with a voltmeter or simpler tester would work.
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The cap is just the plastic piece used to screw the fuse back in and hold it in place.
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Sure, I just don't know how to make a recommendation.
Definitely wait until the bike has had its contactors open for at least ten minutes before messing with any high voltage fuses, though. You can certainly try a swap from the accessory charging port fuse cap, but don't swap the fuse itself - it's a totally different rating.
FWIW I have found that little parts I've dropped in the bike (yeah, shame on me) have wound up in the pan that covers the onboard chargers under the bike. You can get that off with just a 3mm allen wrench or could see in there with a flashlight.
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Anyone know where I can order a new dc/dc 4amp fuse and holder cap that will fit my 2014 S11.4?
By the way, the picture from my Zero manual that I posted here is wrong. There are only two hi voltage fuses in this area. How can Zero give you a manual that has pictures that shows incorrect parts????
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By the way, the picture from my Zero manual that I posted here is wrong. There are only two hi voltage fuses in this area. How can Zero give you a manual that has pictures that shows incorrect parts? ???
Because each model year has slightly different layouts for the electrical internals. Check the manual for the following model year (2015).
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Okay I got replacement fuses. Now can anyone tell me where I can get the black cap that holds it on?
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Thanks all! The Ghost has returned to full power!!
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Congrats! If you find a spec for the black cap, please share for adding to the wiki.
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...just reviving this old thread because I think I'm having the same problem on my 2015 SR. No 12v power but motor runs fine, no blown fuses in fuse box. Looks like it is https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Loss_of_12V_Power
Here's mine:
https://youtu.be/8F-uObnjqKk
I've been trying to diagnose a problem I'm having with my 2015 SR ZF 13. When I turn on the bike, I get power to the indicator lights and LCD display (without backlight), and the motor runs fine. But the LCD backlight, headlights, tail lights, turn signals, hazard lights, and horn do not work.
This started happening last week. Prior to that I was having a problem with the LED headlight that a previous owner had installed. Sometimes it would cut off and I could make it work again by jiggling the wires that went to it. I don't know offhand if the problem was with the LED itself or the connector, or the wiring. I bought a new LED headlight bulb but before I got around to the replacement, I started having this problem where none of the lights work.
One other thing I should mention is that the "cigarette lighter" 12v socket was acting up too, just prior to the lights out problem. I couldn't tell if it was the socket itself or the phone charger I had plugged in, but I suspect it was the socket because it was rusty when I got the bike and I cleaned it out. After that it worked fine until recently.
I thought maybe there was a short so I checked the fuse box today and all of the fuses are intact, as well as the 2 x ABC 4A and SPT3.15A high-voltage fuses.
Anybody have a clue what might be happening?
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Not sure if it is the case, but might it be a DC-DC converter problem?
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Not sure if it is the case, but might it be a DC-DC converter problem?
Sure sounds like such to me as well. At the 13V stuff isn't working and all that comes from the DC2DCC.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Not sure if it is the case, but might it be a DC-DC converter problem?
That's what I think too. But as a follow up, I replaced the crappy noisy and failing LED headlight bulb with a fanless one I got on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XHD78DQ
I checked all the high-voltage fuses with a meter and they were all fine so I figured it was the convertor itself. I went for a ride today since the motor still works, and on my way back it all the 12 DC stuff works again! Headlights, LCD backlight, turn signals, Rear light.
What are the odds this is a permanent fix? I hope it is not intermittent.
:-\
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Not sure if it is the case, but might it be a DC-DC converter problem?
That's what I think too. But as a follow up, I replaced the crappy noisy and failing LED headlight bulb with a fanless one I got on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XHD78DQ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XHD78DQ)
I checked all the high-voltage fuses with a meter and they were all fine so I figured it was the convertor itself. I went for a ride today since the motor still works, and on my way back it all the 12 DC stuff works again! Headlights, LCD backlight, turn signals, Rear light.
What are the odds this is a permanent fix? I hope it is not intermittent.
:-\
Sounds like a flakey connection or connector somewhere. Intermittents are the biggest hassles in troubleshooting, by far. You almost never really know when you have them fixed.
Perhaps all will be fine for a year or so and then you go over a bump and lose your 12 volts again.
Or perhaps it craps out before you read this message, even without a bump.
IMO, the odds of it never happening again, especially if you did not do anything that could fix the problem, is very low, but still possible.
Good luck, you need it!
-Don- Reno, NV
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Glad to hear your 12v is working again.
LED headlight bulbs normally have a constant current driver between the source voltage and the LED element.
If the driver is starting to fail they can produce a buzzing/humming noise. Can also cause a lot of "noise" (EMI or RFI) in a circuit that can freak out other devices like the DC DC.
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Might also be that the LED headlight was drawing so much current that de DC/DC converter was able to supply current but not able to keep de voltage at 12V.
Hopefully the problem will not come back
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Glad to hear your 12v is working again.
LED headlight bulbs normally have a constant current driver between the source voltage and the LED element.
If the driver is starting to fail they can produce a buzzing/humming noise. Can also cause a lot of "noise" (EMI or RFI) in a circuit that can freak out other devices like the DC DC.
What do you mean by "freak out"?
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Loads that are inconsistent are not nice to dc-dc converters.
-Crissa
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What do you mean by "freak out"?
Into the weeds we go...
An incandescent bulb uses a filament (normally tungsten) to create light. This filament has a fixed resistance so if you double the voltage the current would also double (V=I*R) because the resistance of the filament is constant.
6v = 2A x 3 ohm vs 12v = 4A x 3 ohm
Led's are an variable impedance load, their have a fixed voltage drop. So if you doubled the current it would half the impedance.
6v = 2A x 3 ohm vs 6v = 4A x 1.5 ohm
As a LED heats up its resistance is reduced, this allows more current to flow to the diode (because the voltage is fixed), more current causes more heat and lowers the resistance. This continues till the load going through the LED gets too high and it fails.
This is where a constant current driver circuit comes in and is what protrudes from the back of the bulb. These use a feedback loop circuit that passes the voltage through a resistor (value can be changed to adjust the current), this fixes the current provided to the LED. Depending on what part of your LED bulb circuit is failing it may can cause spikes in its current draw on the circuit. The sound you are hearing is created by the LED driver circuit switching at a high frequency. This can cause interference (EMI) that can wreak havoc with other components like the DC DC converter.
DC DC (Buck) converters use a PWM signal to adjust their duty cycle, this duty cycle is adjusted based on the circuit load requirements. This adjustment is based on a feedback loop that uses voltage as a reference. Your failing LED driver may be causing current fluctuations faster than the DC DC circuit can adjust for this might cause some sort of fail safe. The circuit also uses an inductor (coil of wire) to smooth the output voltage waveform. Inductors create a magnetic field that can be impacted by EMI.
These videos probably do a better job explaining how each circuit functions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuMngik0GR8
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuMngik0GR8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6NOV6b8kxs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6NOV6b8kxs)
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:-[
The problem is back. The 12V circuit randomly turns on and off while I'm riding now. Last night it cut out as I was riding home along Skyline Blvd where there are almost no street lights. I know the road well and went slow but I'm gonna need to figure this out. Could it be the DC-DC inverter itself? Has anyone experienced this?
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Yep, intermittent DCDC failure is a somewhat common DCDC failure mode. If you're certain the DCDC connection is good and secure, replacing it would be the next step.
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:-[
The problem is back.
As I expected (see reply 13 in this thread).
The 12V circuit randomly turns on and off while I'm riding now. Last night it cut out as I was riding home along Skyline Blvd where there are almost no street lights. I know the road well and went slow but I'm gonna need to figure this out. Could it be the DC-DC inverter itself? Has anyone experienced this?
Yes, it could be, but it also can be after the DC2DCC, check all connectors and other connections where possible.
Such intermittent electrical issues are very common in many vehicles. Various reasons, including solder shaking off a printed circuit board caused by vibrations. Some stuff is designed better than other stuff to deal with vibrations, but often the best ways make it almost impossible to repair except by replacement of the entire assembly. That could be how your DC2DCC is.
Unfortunately, such an intermittent issue as yours is almost impossible to repair on the web. All we can do is tell you to check various connections and such. Do it with the bike's lights on and wiggle the wires and such inside the headlamp assembly is where I would start.
If checking where the DC2DCC is located, be sure to stay away from the high voltage input an such.
Skyline can be a dangerous place to lose your lights, especially when foggy up there. I used to live in the west bay area.
One of my best friends was killed on Skyline back in the 1970's. He just turned 21 years old then.
-Don- Reno, NV