ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Quote from: DonTom on August 09, 2023, 07:44:54 AM

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IOW, if the charge must drop to 7KW @95% SOC, when starting with 12 KW, why does it need to drop at all @ 95% SOC  when you start with a charge of 6.6 KW?
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BINGO! I'd like to know this as well.

For the battery to charge, you raise the charge voltage above the battery voltage. The more the charge voltage is raised, the more current is drawn from the battery. At some point when charging at high SOC, your charge voltage becomes the maximum allowed voltage for the pack and cannot increase (This would be where CC turns into CV). Voltage cannot continue to raise and draw more current, so the current falls as the SOC climbs. The BMS could also request to limit charge current at high SOC to accommodate differences in cell voltage, to protect cells with a higher voltage from going beyond their designed maximum voltage.

Now GM has jumped on the Tesla Supercharger bandwagon. They will join Ford in adopting Tesla as the standard for charging their future vehicles and even their current EVs once they can be updated with new charging connectors. The news media believes that the Tesla charging system will eventually be the new standard in the U.S. in the future according to news reports yesterday.

Honestly I think this is a great news, the NACS charge port design is far superior and much more thought out than the CCS standard (I cant believe that massive plug actually went through enough approvals to become a standard). Also independent CCS chargers have a terrible reliability track record and pulling up to a Tesla charger would give me a really good feeling that it was just going to work.

If Zero adopted this standard too, they would get a 11+kw feed out of the box instead of being capped at ~6.6 by Chargepoint just for L2 charging. That would be great for 12kw on board chargers. I couldn't find any documentation on the minimum voltage the Tesla fast chargers will accommodate, but Zero wouldn't need to change the connector to adopt DCFC later in the future if they found the superchargers could go that low, or they could somehow do a contactor arrangement to move from 28s4p to 112s only while charging.

I also found this very useful - https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8799.msg75208#msg75208

For the argument that "we already paid for it", here is something to consider. The 2022 SR/F standard is $20,095 and the previous SR/F's were $18,995 so an increase in $1,100. This difference cannot pay for all the extra hardware on the bike right? This includes:

locked 2.9kWh
locked 3.6kW charging
locked heated grips
locked nav and reverse

The increase in $1.1k probably is mostly inflation + other general increase in parts costs (maybe new cells cost more?).

if the argument is that we already paid for this, the 2019-2021 FST bikes were a rip off then? (as they had none of these hardware pre installed).
And we had to pay dealer install fee to get these installed post purchase too.

Well another way to look at it is you are spending $1,100 more for the same bike, except its now heavier. That extra 3kw charger sets you back $1500 to unlock, so a $2600 premium over the previous year but keep in mind you can buy that charger at retail for $1700 for a 2020-2021 bike. Squeeze the profit margin for the charger on the front end and maybe it will pay off big on the back end. You still payed for it, you're just paying more to use it now.

Those heated grips are a ~$40 cost to them, nav is a built in feature to that off the shelf display they have, and reverse has nothing to do with hardware and is just changing the direction of the motor and modified throttle map in software. But that's a good way to get another $600 from the consumer.

I wonder how many of the people that are complaining would actually be in the market for one of the higher end models, or even any Zero. They're not exactly cheap and I would imagine most people willing to spend at least $18.5k on a bike won't care too much about paying a little bit extra for some of the upgrades.

I am definitely one of those people, I've been waiting for Zero to iron out the bugs on the SR/F before writing a check, but instead they invested in this stunt. I don't find much use in complaining, but I can vote with my wallet (I wont buy from other manufactures doing this either). I like the SR/F and appreciate the nice L2 charging capacity (that's all I have around me), I test rode one when they first came out and loved it, but Yammienoobs video has a point. Sam made a video pointing out the same thing, and I agree with both. I mean the heated grip elements are installed, they are there, why would I pay $200 to enable them to be controlled in software when I can go buy a $30 pid controller and enable them myself? How hard is it to include reverse by default? There is no gear, just SpinMotor(backward); , and that warrants another $200? Zero has already made a profit off of the hardware, they aren't selling at a loss. Its not at 'no cost' to you, you paid for it already.

I bought my FX to dip my toes into E-motos to see if I would even like it, and it sold me. I don't think my next E-moto will be a Zero though.

The charging topic has really been beaten to death on this forum, for all types of Zero bikes. I'm surprised your search came up empty.

What MVetter was showing you was the Delta-Q charger that is sold as a factory accessory by Zero, its clearly an offboard charger that you either travel with in some kind of carrying case or you just leave at a destination (home is often the place for this). Its also the same charger you referenced, just sold by Zero.

I hear for an additional $2,499 in the Cypher Store they will unlock the ability to peel off the grey color and reveal a more vibrant color underneath.