ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Electric Terry on September 14, 2016, 11:50:58 PM
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So I have a question I'd like to see how people respond.
If the bike could hold extra batteries, who would like that feature?
I recently started carrying my supercharger on my left crashbar, which is exactly the size of a module and it fits perfect. Which means modules could fit there too.
So, what if you could carry up to 4 extra modules for road trips, who would be interested in something like that?
The modules are 42 pounds each, 4 would weigh about 168 pounds, or about the weight of a passenger with full gear. So if you are familiar with riding with the weight of a passenger, this would be similar. But it would add the energy of up to an entire monolith. Or a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops. Although you might still wish to stop sooner, but now you could choose to take a longer stretch, or stop for a break somewhere you want where there isn't fast charging for a break and not worry about it.
Batteries are still expensive, although costs should come down one day soon we hope. But for now, I was thinking you could rent batteries from your dealer for that special trip on your bike. Although I would expect some serious touring people who are retired would perhaps buy 2 all the time as panniers, and maybe that would be enough. They could pop in and out like on the FX so you would only put them in for longer trips and for spirited city riding or on the twisties, you could remove the extra weight.
I have found lots of weight doesn't really change highway range at all. And also extra weight increases the bikes stability on the freeway in relation to bumps (the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight improves), and also decreases the tendency to get affected by wind gusts or passing trucks. So this is totally in mind of someone taking a long 3-5 day roadtrip and for $250 or so could rent batteries, wake up in the morning and be able to ride 100 miles before lunch and only be at 50% when they stop to charge. Perhaps now with elcons and the supercharger, extra charging could be rented too, so you could charge 200 miles range in an hour.
Just imagine someone like Ben Rich having 200 miles range and being able to charge in an hour, and being able to travel anywhere? Think about those 18 hour 500 mile riding days back to back that Ben did this summer becoming easy 600 mile days that are only 12 hours (10 hours riding at 60 mph and 2 hours to charge back 400 miles for the day), or if needed be able to do 1000 miles in a day with four 1 hour charge stops.
Anyway looking to see what others think
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the batteries should be lower down and stick out the sides like the jugs on a bmw, it would keep the cg lower and not look too weird
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I would like more battery capacity, but I would want it incorporated into the stock chassis by Zero. That would appear to require a completely different chassis, as the current one is pretty well packed. I don't see Zero designing and manufacturing a new larger chassis anytime soon, although the idea of a battery bulge to either side of the front of the bike, ahead of the foot pegs to accommodate an additional brick, sounds interesting. (Since I have been riding BMW boxers for the past 25 years, they could even put cooling fins on the bulges to make me feel at home.) ;) I think the best I can hope for in the near future are improvements in battery chemistry, though.
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I'd be interested.
Indeed, if I could upgrade to the latest Zero and take the bricks from my old one for extended trips on my new one, I wouldn't need to even buy bricks, just a new bike...
(waitaminute...)
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I'm intrigued but also prefer the BMW boxer proposal, partly because I'd put cooling fins on the side of my main battery. And a fairing should fit around it. (More CAD time to lay this out...)
How would the bike's firmware support this, though? Seems like power tanks have some issues, so there must be some coordination.
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Terry - 1. Anything that would allow more uninterrupted range I would be interested in! I was daydreaming at the recent reunion event that I almost wish that they had an SDS chassis that had the swappable battery compartment of the FXS, and maybe if we were lucky, a battery box for the SDS that wasn't the sealed monolith that we have, but instead one that held from 1 to 4 hot-swappable modules. Then, not only would your idea of carrying them or even "renting them" from the dealer be attractive, but zero could basically grow the business in both directions by offering like a 1 module SDS motorcycle for a much lower price-point, allowing the customer the ability to grow into longer range as needed by getting more (for example, getting the missing 3 if you buy a bike with a 1 module subsystem.
2. It's clear to me that battery technology is about to take some sort of leap in both capacity, as well as economies of scale-lowering of price. If a battery in the next few months offers say 4X the capacity and/or costs 1/4 the price, then the 1 module, growing into 4 module type of setup not only makes sense to me, but seems like it should be the highlight of the 2017 product line! Seems like leapfrog in battery technology is coming like a train very fast so I'd almost prefer to have swappable modules in my SDS so I could run light and lean (imagine shaving 150 lbs off the bike for my daily commute to work and back by only running one module in the SDS bike) but still could drop in the other modules for range when the long distance trip I want to take is before me.
3. Interesting thing if you look up the Mercedes Benz designed SMART CAR, they sell it now with a price that includes NO BATTERIES, and you purchase or "lease" your batteries as a separate agreement. Makes for interesting pricing, and while the model of the lease doesn't seem to apply to Zero batteries, especially if they outlast the lifetime of the bike, but the idea of treating the battery subsystem like a commodity much like double-AA cells in the real world brings forth some interesting ideas.
4. Although I love the beauty of the SDS style bikes and hate the thought of what seeing an FX-style cage in the SDS frame might look like (compared to the elegant and beautiful monolith) I got to believe that is a cosmetic challenge Zero scientists can easily overcome and win me over on in a future machine.
5. So Yes! Yes! Yes! Give me a way to plug in more range when I need it - and I'll buy it - because I truly believe that the pendulum on that will go both ways, and we will get range that is adjustable thru ideas like yours (carrying the modules ready to be used), while at the same time gaining the ability to reduce the weight and module count - IF IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE RIDER - in times when the weekly commute can be carried by one or two of them!
6. Will we see the SDS-FXXXXX in 2017? (S/DS/DSR elegance with the hot-swap battery box) <-I heard "Service" saying that it takes way to long to put in the 5th module into the tank area so they could start by making that a hot-swap drop in - especially if battery capacity goes up in the very near future!
7. One last thought I've not heard anyone comment on but was curious about was the idea of the "range extender" technology like the Chevy Volt originally came out with. The idea that you'd have some small ICE engine turning a big fat electrical GENERATOR that in turn was pumping electricity into my battery modules on the zero while I'm traveling down the road. (Forget about the way Chevy tied the ICE motor into the drive train, which was for other reasons non-essential to this discussion) That generator subsystem on the Volt kicks in when the batteries reach 33% charge and basically with the tiny ICE running a generator feeding the batteries; it gives that Volt about 10X the distance. That type of setup on anything besides the volt is something I'd like to explore. Heck-locomotives that do the heavy work on the rail network across the USA have powerful electric motors powered by what? Batteries that are fed from a generator in the same engine compartment fed by a diesel generator! Sure-A Zero making ICE noise wouldn't be a Zero anymore, but if I could sit that little ICE box down in place of your "module" and hook it to my battery charging subsystem, I wonder how far I could go, and how quiet I still could be.
8. Oh yeah--my Smartphone can either be recharged by plugging a cord into it, or by getting it "in close proximity" to a charging station that provides that function. I wonder if A) it's possible to charge a zero that way-no or in some not to distant future - and b) will we ever see a day when driving down the road and stopping at a plate in the road, near an intersection - or heck even blowing past it on the side of the road - could provide the charging or boost that we need to keep us all moving on down the road.... If my phone can do it-how about my bike?
-But YEAH - gimme swappable in my S/DS/DSR so i can have more range and I'll ride with ya - side by side - and we will start a new ZEROSTURGIS together. One where Electric motorcycles and their owners come together after riding long distances using every creative way imaginable! Including your way of carrying those extra modules! I'm in and up for it and willing.
Mark Hripko
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A temporary accessory that added more battery is a good idea. But that special weekend trip that presses the range definitely is a niche to fill.
I don't need to take extra battery everyday in my commute, so a permanent installation is not attractive.
I think I am more likely to end up in a situation where a need a little more range, rather than having a fast charge on the way. That is I don't like to stop, I'm nearing the age where stopping is getting appealing.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5287.msg37264#msg37264 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5287.msg37264#msg37264)
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I would guess most motorcycle riders do not take long trips, they take day trips. I only take day trips, my ice friends only take day trips, so I would want a range capacity where I could make a day trip without charging. For me who only rides with a passenger, my current range is about 120miles. Most of my trips are just a bit over that range so being able to strap on a add-on battery would be be priceless. Only thing better would be more availability of fast charging.
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For me, I'd prefer to have the Super Charger "permanently" integrated into the bike (in the tank) and extra batteries to be swapable.
For most trips, I don't mind not being able to make it all the way there if I can charge fast and keep going. The short 45 min breaks are actually nice so having a permanent Super Charger is key.
But there's actually a few destinations that I can't currently reach with my 11.4kWh pack right now because the charging stations are too far apart. Being able to add even just 2 extra battery packs for those occasions would open up even more riding opportunities.
Question: putting the structural problem aside, how does connecting extra packs to the controller work in terms of software? Do you have to change anything or can you just add more capacity the bike just sees the voltage drop more slowly and computes the percentage left from that?
Call me interested!
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I don't do a lot of riding these days, so my FX fills most of my riding needs.
When I was riding more, A loop around the lake or to the mountains, or,
even both would take between 100 and 200 miles. When Laguna Seca
was having good events, I would ride there each year, around 500 miles
each way. The shorter of the rides could be handled by a Big S or DS
but, sadly, not my My FX. This is fine with me as I bought my FX for
what it is, not what it isn't. A light fun commuter bike. It commutes perfectly.
I am fortunate enough to have space for other bikes to do the other rides
if I feel the need / desire. If I had the opportunity to buy an electric
motorcycle that weighed 300 lbs. and could go 500 miles per charge on the
highway, I would of course look at it. but at this point in time I
am not aware of any. I didn't go with the S or DS as I have enough
bikes in that weight range. There are very few vehicles that meet 100%
of what someone looks for. Kind of like a life partner I guess.
If we wait until we find someone who possesses everything we seek,
we will most likely die alone. If I waited for the BEST computer ever,
I would still not have one today. Look at all the fun and productivity I
would have missed by not having one ( or dozens by now ).
We get what meets out need and hopefully a little more, then
when something comes along that is better enough, we upgrade.
The journey is often as much of a reward as the completion of the trip.
Given the above, I guess I would have to put my answer in the INTERESTED
but not going to hold my breath category.
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Great responses, keep them coming if you haven't chimed in yet.
Good stuff, and very interesting to compare to what the current FX owners show which is most have never removed a battery, not even to make it lighter with just one. But I think the difference is the FX needs both modules to have the safety and security to go anywhere to begin with. An S/DS type bike with a monolith already, it would be nice to have a "powertank" (or 2, 3, or 4) but remove the weight for most commuting, but add it when taking, as was said, long day trips.
I know some people who like the feel of the S/DS better without the powertank, and that's just 1 module. And some like the weight of the 3 brick better than that of the 4 brick.
I love the idea someone said above of being able to buy a bike less expensive with only 1 battery and be able to add more and more and more as time goes on and you want to go farther and can afford it. Although I think 50 miles range is the minimum safety net of range most want even for short commutes so you have the ability to take the long way home. So maybe 2 bricks to be the minimum and the ability to add 2 more bricks later or on the weekends, if it were quick and rather easy to do. Also the effort to take time to remove 42 pounds or add 17-41 miles range perhaps was too much effort for what it was worth, especially since it meant a power loss at higher speed. So many factors with human behavior. In the end I think we are inherently lazy, and to add or remove batteries would need to make a rather large or significant difference in range vs weight. I still like the idea of popping in a powertank module on each side in a well designed pannier case that is designed robust to hold the weight, and protect the battery in the event of a tip over. Right away you could take a 4 brick bike with 100 miles highway range and visit the dealer, pop in 2 more modules and make it 150 highway miles range real quick. I can see many might just buy the two powertank modules for this purpose so they could have the range all the time.
As we heard from Abe's presentation at the 10th anniversary event, each "brick" can do about 20 kW so if you bought a bike with only one battery power would be limited to begin with but that would give you 2 reasons to upgrade soon. more power and more range.
There is a constant battle with making a bike cost less to produce and offering options. It seems the biggest obstacle right now for most motorcyclists is the high price of entry even though lifetime cost might be a lot less. Someone mentioned buying the bike and leasing the batteries like the Smart car does. Not sure if that would turn out best and get more motorcyclists to buy a Zero or not.
If batteries ever become less expensive and the pressure to have a low cost bike isn't as severe, I think the system of having completely modular batteries and chargers makes the most sense as the Nirvana we could all hope for. Own one motorcycle, but use it one way for the Monday-Friday commute keeping it as fast and nimble and flickable as possible, and on Saturday morning throw in more batteries and head out on a 200 mile ride. Even if it meant stopping by the dealer on Friday afternoon to rent extra batteries for the weekend. I could easily see the FX and FXS demo bikes being single module bikes for demo rides each and every Saturday at dealers all over.
I see in the other thread linked above that protomech mentioned the appeal of renting touring accessories like fast chargers was of interest to him also.
Although one day maybe this wont be necessary, when recharge time can get down to 5-10 minutes, and range can be 150 miles on the freeway, and fast charging locations can be at every exit, there won't be a need to add batteries for long day trips. But I would say we are still a long ways away before that happens so trying to plan a modular battery system in a S/DS type platform that can transform the short range commuter bike into a longer distance weekend sport touring bike makes a lot of sense and looks like all roads are pointing towards that direction. Figuring out how to do that so it is quick and easy to swap and looks good and is protected by the bike frame are all challenges. But it sounds like if those can be accomplished that everyone is interested. Good to know.
Anyone else have any ideas?
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So, more or less, if a number of FX battery bricks could be harnessed reliably with the main pack, and held safely in a good position for a while, that's 42lbs per brick and 25 lbs for a supercharger or two, so up to 200lbs extra weight on the forward part of the frame and partly the main battery pack itself. You'd need a really good sturdy extension to the frame that distributed the load (much more robust than the crash guard mounts), and a really reliable system for electrically harnessing them together.
I say reliable because the rental proposal needs some normalization to keep losses low; it's either that or an ownership model where the extra batteries can be house batteries when not used for travel to recover the investment. It's definitely ambitious!
We should sketch a feasible design; I've been doing mockups in a CAD environment for various things lately and wouldn't mind trying to figure this out in concert with fairing mounts.
I'll point out that the underlying rule that makes this work for travel is that charging is limited by C rate, so adding batteries doesn't make charging slower if you can channel in that rate. That's where DC charging would help out immensely.
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Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?
keep it off 90% of the time.. then for those longer runs, you just trailer up and plug them in. They couldnt be directly plugged in of course.. diffrent state of charge on the batteries, and the current surging from acceleration... but a robust 60a DC DC converter onboard could charge the batteries at the same rate they were being used on the highway... and then the same connector-charger could act as another charger when charging the bike.
like this but smaller and sleeker:
(http://n-line.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/yellow-one-wheel-motorcycle-trailer2.jpg)
maybe shaped more like this with a wheel at the back:
(http://bpc.h-cdn.co/assets/15/51/980x490/gallery-1450113472-roof-thule-612.jpg)
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I would be interested if it were like others said, an option to install for special trips kind of thing. I would also be concerned about how the weight affected handling. 200 miles is the typical range between fillings on ICE tourers so I know how that plays out well.
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Great idea Mr Dude, that I had 12/4/2015
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5287.msg37169#msg37169 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5287.msg37169#msg37169)
Feel free to look it over as I thought it got a little traction and had some good ideas thrown in.
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Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?
I've thought about the same thing many times, but with a generator instead. You could turn your bike into a hybrid when you wanted to take a long road trip.
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Anyway looking to see what others think
I've long personally held the opinion that electric bikes need about 30kwh (or thereabouts) to hit 200 miles of range, and that for me is the ideal highway range.
It basically hits the same sort of range as my diversion (Seca 900) and means that for me the Zero would be a proper touring bike.
Also a Zero with 200 miles of range would be a more viable bike for taking part in regular bike runs with ICE bikes, something it struggles to do at the moment.
I'd love a 200 mile capable Zero.
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Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?
I've thought about the same thing many times, but with a generator instead. You could turn your bike into a hybrid when you wanted to take a long road trip.
I don't think any motorcycle manufacturer would embrace the idea of pulling a trailer. Too much product liability involved, especially in the U.S. And likely, the EU wouldn't be too happy about the idea, either. Something like a trike or sidecar might work, but the market for either of those is not great, compared with the cost of development and marketing. Although Polaris or CanAm might consider electrifying their existing reverse-trikes. But I sure don't see Zero going in that direction.
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Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?
keep it off 90% of the time.. then for those longer runs, you just trailer up and plug them in. They couldnt be directly plugged in of course.. diffrent state of charge on the batteries, and the current surging from acceleration... but a robust 60a DC DC converter onboard could charge the batteries at the same rate they were being used on the highway... and then the same connector-charger could act as another charger when charging the bike.
like this but smaller and sleeker:
(http://n-line.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/yellow-one-wheel-motorcycle-trailer2.jpg)
maybe shaped more like this with a wheel at the back:
(http://bpc.h-cdn.co/assets/15/51/980x490/gallery-1450113472-roof-thule-612.jpg)
@ElectricZen bought one of these trail tail trailers. Its compatible with the Zero and seems like it would work great...even better if they made it out of aluminum. A trailer does seem like a better option for renting or just for ease of removal when not needed. Might even offer extra storage in addition to the extra batteries.
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5755.0
https://trailtail.com/
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Agreed, 200 miles highway range is a great number, especially for joining other motorcyclists on group rides. While the actual rides aren't usually too much more than 100 miles, you have to get to the starting point and get home, and many times the group rides are very spirited and the wh/mile consumption is very high.
There are 2 ways to do this
Aerodynamics that double highway range
Or having the ability to carry 30 kWh
No one seems to want to look like a streamliner, even though I could go 300 miles on my Vetter bike at 70 mph with 27 kWh.
http://insideevs.com/electric-terry-hershner-rides-300-miles-on-zero-motorcycle-on-one-charge/ (http://insideevs.com/electric-terry-hershner-rides-300-miles-on-zero-motorcycle-on-one-charge/)
But I would think that a combination of the two with a 50% improvement in reducing the Cd to perhaps 0.6 or something similar or a little better than the Hayabusa aerodynamics AND the ability to hold an additional 13 kWh of battery capacity.
As far as a trailer I have never used one, but have thought about it a lot and decided against it because of handling concerns from reviews. Lightweight trailers seemed to have good reviews, a 50 pound trailer with a pillow, sleeping bag, and air mattress inside. But I wanted to carry batteries. Heavy trailers had some terrible experiences from things I read and so I mounted the weight on the bike itself.
After experimenting with weight all over the motorcycle, I can tell you weight over the front wheel or 60% or more towards the front and less than 40% towards the rear is ideal for handling. You get very responsive steering input. It actually improves the handling of the bike in my opinion.
Rear mounted batteries as panniers can reduce steering response and can amplify wobbling on the bike if the wheels aren't 100.00% aligned, or there is any play in rear wheel bearings or even head tube bearings, of which I have experienced all. When the weight is over the front wheel, the motorcycle acts like it's own car and trailer system. It pulls straight like an arrow with the weight at the front. The front wheel and forks are your car, and the whole rest of the motorcycle is the car trailer. The trailer might be the traction source, but stability wants the weight on the car or the trailer can start to wobble at high speed.
So for those with handling concerns, weight towards the front, i.e. 1 or 2 modules on each side where the crash bars are (like the bmw boxer cylinder position) would be perfect. I would just like to see these batteries be able to pop in and out easy so you could remove them when not in use to improve flickability in twisties on the weekday commutes. I think 2 modules on each side would fit perfect and allow a current 13.0 kWh bike to hold 26.0 kWh this way and still have an empty top case and panniers for clothes and gear. A charge tank or supercharger could go the tank area. And an aerodynamic fairing that is just as wide as your legs (just as wide as the battery modules anyway), might as well use this space!!
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I'm more interested in aero improvements than extra batteries. More batteries extend your ride but also extend your recharge time...unless you have enough chargers and can find a source with enough power. Aero would extend your ride without extending recharge time...I would rather do more with less. Plus more batteries would be a lot more expensive solution than better aero.
I prefer a fairing closer to hayabusa (but with a windscreen that allows for an upright seating position) than a vetter streamliner even though the streamliner would see better improvement in range...but I would still be interested in a streamliner if it was bolt on and not to difficult to remove since I only need it for distance trips and not my daily commute.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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I'm more interested in aero improvements than extra batteries. More batteries extend your ride but also extend your recharge time...unless you have enough chargers and can find a source with enough power. Aero would extend your ride without extending recharge time...I would rather do more with less. Plus more batteries would be a lot more expensive solution than better aero.
I tend to agree (and I'm sure Terry does) that the aero improvements take a priority and make for a less aggressively oriented trip. Once you take on more batteries, you're investing at least a few thousand dollars in infrastructure that requires a more aggressive charging plan.
On the other hand, more batteries allows you to charge at an existing rate and stress the batteries less! Which only occurred to me just now. Raising the effective C-rate improves performance across the range of usage.
In any case, aerodynamics and battery/charging upgrades are complementary, thankfully, so we can pursue both lines of inquiry as a community. The only question is what solutions will we collectively shell out money for or contribute time to effectively? We should be thinking of this as a bootstrap effort where we go out of our way for a 2-4 years as a small group before a major player can invest in a hopefully grown market that is ready for touring.
I prefer a fairing closer to hayabusa (but with a windscreen that allows for an upright seating position) than a vetter streamliner even though the streamliner would see better improvement in range...but I would still be interested in a streamliner if it was bolt on and not to difficult to remove since I only need it for distance trips and not my daily commute.
Come to think of it, I may grab a local cast-off racing hayabusa fairing just to mock it up - it's honestly one of the few sportbike fairings that is fuller and can accommodate the LSL headlight cutout easily.
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Here is the way that the batteries of my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S were packaged.
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With regards to battery capacity and charge time I think Elon Musk has it right: For long distance travel you need to be able to get three hours ride time from 30 minutes charge time. Of course three hours ride time @ 70 mph is 210 miles.
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With some aero improvements you could probably get about 130 miles per charge with the big battery and the power tank with each additional power tank adding about 23 miles range highway. So you might have to add 3 more to get the 200 mile range. The aero improvements could still maintain the look of the bike versus the Vetter fairing. With some serious cfd time you could probably get it down to the big battery plus power tank plus 2 more modules. With no frame or suspension mods the carrying capacity with even 2 new modules would be down too about 240 pounds. All of this means it would have to be designed from the ground up as a long range toured.
I would love 200 mile range just don't see it in the cards right now. Price tag alone would be about 25k similar to a car.
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As an FX owner, I have removed one battery.
Putting single battery in both front and rear
location just to see how it would feel. I have
28 tooth counter sprocket and with both
batteries, it will not wheelie by just rolling
on the throttle. It will with one battery
in back position, probably in front position
as well, but, I can't swear to it.
Prior to my FX, I had a 2012 XU which
only had 3KW pack, so similar to the FX with
one brick, but, it was lower voltage. I could
coax 50 miles out of it but not comfortably.
8 miles of city streets and 12 miles of highway
would have it blinking to be charged. I have never
had one brick in my FX for more than a few minutes
at a time.
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With regards to battery capacity and charge time I think Elon Musk has it right: For long distance travel you need to be able to get three hours ride time from 30 minutes charge time. Of course three hours ride time @ 70 mph is 210 miles.
Yes if this is the goal to have with the biggest battery and charger configuration, I think few will be deterred from purchasing based on capability, only cost, although if additional modules can be rented, or dare I say "leased" for 1, 2 or 3 years at a time and then returned or the option to buy after the lease term is over, I think the "fuel" to complain about electrics will be erased.
Sure one day with solid electrolyte cells and carbon nanotube anodes, 10C charge times, and energy density 2, 3 or 4 times what it is today, designing "how" to fit more batteries on the bike wont be necessary by any means. But meeting all those criteria could still be 10-20 years out, we know the world is pushing for that to happen from the design of every mobile device and laptop so without question it is on the way, but why not let it happen today?
For anyone whose ridden a 900 pound (898 lb wet weight) GL 1800 gold wing, knows its not bad and feels like a bullet going down the freeway, compared to the heaviest Zero SR with 4 brick monolith and powertank is only 458 pounds, or right at half.
The Gold Wing has an additional 440 pounds on it. I'm simply suggesting being able to carry an additional 168 pounds (4 modules) to double the energy when needed for long days of riding. Even with 4 extra modules the bike would still be almost 300 pounds lighter. And since the Goldwing is fun to ride in twisties, and will wheelie going up hill by bouncing the throttle, being afraid of extra weight I believe is unjustified. Just make it so the batteries can be removed to ease everyone's mind who is weight conscious.
Having the confidence of added range, not necessarily to go farther, but to go the distance you have to go at a faster speed and not worry that today you have unfortunate weather and are going into a 30 mph headwind, the capability for more range and faster charging will be welcome by the sportbike group riders, weekend tourers and trips like from the San Francisco to LA area, LA to Vegas, NY to DC, SF to Tahoe or Yosemite or many other popular weekend trips people want their motorcycle to be able to do.
Point is if the fear is weight, that fear is overrated. If the fear is added cost, that can be addressed as well. Perhaps dealers can one day trade in 2.8 modules for 3.3 modules and renting or leasing or buying 2 or 4 2nd hand used 2.8 modules could cost less and of course weigh a little more for the energy but still be an option. Or the lease idea for batteries. Or just those who are willing to spend the money for a bike that gives them more confidence. My point is those concerns can be addressed and solved one way or another.
The key right now is having the option. That's all. Doesn't mean anyone has to do it. But the ability to upgrade any bike with brackets and modules for added range should you ever want it is a comforting feature that I think in itself will help potential buyers on the fence who are concerned about the maximum range their bike could ever have should they need it. This will eliminate that "what if I ever want to..." question that people ask after test riding a Zero and loving it, but who end up buying a brand new $14k gas bike instead.
As an FX owner, I have removed one battery.
Putting single battery in both front and rear
location just to see how it would feel. I have
28 tooth counter sprocket and with both
batteries, it will not wheelie by just rolling
on the throttle. It will with one battery
in back position, probably in front position
as well, but, I can't swear to it.
Prior to my FX, I had a 2012 XU which
only had 3KW pack, so similar to the FX with
one brick, but, it was lower voltage. I could
coax 50 miles out of it but not comfortably.
8 miles of city streets and 12 miles of highway
would have it blinking to be charged. I have never
had one brick in my FX for more than a few minutes
at a time.
And also good to hear Ed, and so you've taken the time to remove modules and obviously like the weight setup with only one module in the back and the ability to wheelie, but the range potential tradeoff makes it so you'd rather just keep both modules in at all times right?
I'm someone who 2 years ago rode around a 750 pound Zero as a daily rider, and it was rare I ever said "I just have to go to the store, I wish I could easily pop some batteries out without too much trouble", although I know some will want that ability as non negotiable sort of like the dual front disc brake argument. Whether its really needed or not, if it inspires confidence in the consumer, that is really all that matters.
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For anyone whose ridden a 900 pound (898 lb wet weight) GL 1800 gold wing, knows its not bad and feels like a bullet going down the freeway, compared to the heaviest Zero SR with 4 brick monolith and powertank is only 458 pounds, or right at half.
If anyone doubts Terry's statement, google "Goldwing Yellow Wolf"... The dude just rides away from me down the gap, going faster than I was willing to take a full on superbike.
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Yes Terry, that is mostly correct.
I can make my 20 mile street / freeway
trip to work using around 30% of the two batteries.
As stated, I could also do it on my 3KW 2012 XU,
so, I am fairly certain that I COULD make the trip
with one battery, Probably HAVE to charge at work.
Now I just do it because I can. If it wasn't such a
pain to switch out the counter sprocket, I would
jut do that. NEXT time I will probably keep the
25 tooth front and go with the High Speed gearing
if desired.
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It is very rare to ever see anything about them but Bell Custom Cycles makes the Brutus V9 electric cruiser. You can get it with a 33.7 kWh battery and a claimed range of 210 miles highway, 280 miles city. If you do a search for them you find a few old brief articles about them but never found a real road test of one. It is too bad that BCC doesn't put some effort into advertising and selling them. It certainly isn't unusual for people to ask about an electric cruiser and few know the V9 exists.
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This is DEFINITELY NOT a 200 mile post, but, it is following a little sub thread.
Just for grins I took out the Rear Brick from My FX. As I thought, it will absolutely
throttle wheelie with the 28 tooth front sprocket and front brick in place .
I will try my trip to work tomorrow 12 miles freeway and 8 miles city streets.
I was using 30% with both bricks, starting out at 91%. My projection should
be between 55% and 60% given the bike and I will be about 10% lighter. Terry has
said that the extra weight doesn't make that much difference on the road,
but, I can hope that since I have about 20 stop lights between my house
and the freeway on ramp, I will get a little better from the stop and go.
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As far as removable batteries go, docbass has a posting somewhere about leaf cells in the pannier cases
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Left for work with 95% on battery ( 2.5KW ). Took
city streets 34 mph and 45 mph. Got to work with 55%
remaining. Got cocky so did not plug in. Used 1.1 KW.
for 20 mile trip. Left for home 9 hours later with 1.339 KW
available. Started Flashing 2 bars at around 28 miles.
6 miles from home showed 8% and 6 miles range.
4 miles from home showed 4% and 3 miles range.
Dropped from 3% to 0% and stopped dead
about 3 miles from home. Charged at a nearby
casino for 45 minutes then headed home.
Will try other brick tomorrow.
Surprised that as big as my head was, it still fit into my helmet.
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Terry,
Have you taken a look at the dimensions of a BMW R100RS fairing? Wonder if it could be modified as you describe? Maybe someone could modify the holes for the airhead's jugs so you could slide in and mount a brick. Then make blanks for the jug holes when not needed. I have no idea how this would stack up to a Hyabusa but the r100rs is a very good fairing functionally, some say the best. I read that it was the first motorcycle fairing that was actually modeled in a wind tunnel.
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Terry,
Have you taken a look at the dimensions of a BMW R100RS fairing? Wonder if it could be modified as you describe? Maybe someone could modify the holes for the airhead's jugs so you could slide in and mount a brick. Then make blanks for the jug holes when not needed. I have no idea how this would stack up to a Hyabusa but the r100rs is a very good fairing functionally, some say the best. I read that it was the first motorcycle fairing that was actually modeled in a wind tunnel.
I agree, but who could afford one? ??? Plus, it has been my experience that old BMW fairing parts are really to come by. You can order them from your dealer, but they never seem to arrive. :(
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The R100RS fairing is not big enough, except in the sense that it's no worse than most fairings at this.
The Power Tank dimensions (for example) are 9.5 x 7.5 x 9.75in. Even the largest dustbin that Airtech sells is not wide enough to enshroud a battery on each side without some flexing (21" = 12" for bike + 4.5" on each side).
Their rarity compared to a Hayabusa fairing doesn't help.
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For a balanced topic, I like the bike as is. I have a 2015 SR with no power tank, I like the storage (wish it was bigger). I also like the lighter weight, so I would hate to lug around extra batteries when on a long trip.
I would prefer to keep the storage space in the "tank" and get a faster charger replacing the 1.3kw/h one we have now.
Graphine batteries are supposedly coming, and they should solve the range problem (30kw/h monolith at 1/2 the current weight) but I wonder how expensive they will be and how long they will take to get into the Zero.
It would be crazy to re-design the frame now when it could be obsolete in 2 years!
If the bike has all the range you ever want and is light weight, why bother removing any battery?
Also each external connection is another point for problems to arise from corrosion or water or dirt ingress (speaking to the 4 seperate battery module idea).
For me I want zero to stay the current course.
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Someone at the Zero event asked about graphine. I am pretty sure that the response
from Zero was that the are presently using a very small amount already. Then proceeded
to give a very detailed explanation of battery chemistry.
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I also like the lighter weight, so I would hate to lug around extra batteries when on a long trip.
On a long trip I promise you could never tell the difference except more weight makes for a nicer ride, as the balance of sprung to unsprung weight improves in your favor. Try adding some weight to the passenger area and go for a long highway ride. You'll see it feels better.
But agreed, stop and go riding, or twisties, or rapid accelerating or braking more weight is definitely not desired
If the bike has all the range you ever want and is light weight, why bother removing any battery?
True, but seeing as that could be 15 years out until we have 200 mile highway range and can recharge in 5 minutes, we have to try to find solutions until then.
For you and many people who use the Zero for commuting, its absolutely perfect. Perhaps the best vehicle for sale in the whole world as a commuter.
But for others who want to go on 100-150 mile rides with other motorcyclists, we need a solution to allow us to do this. Or for those who want to road trip. I know a lot of Zero owners (myself, Ben Rich, Brian Rice, Brandon Miller, Luke Workman and maybe others) who have travelled from SF to LA on their Zero in the past 3 months (about 400 miles) and right now it takes about 12 hours. It takes 5 in a car. We need to get that down somehow. If we could have 200 mile range and charge once for an hour we could make the trip in 6 hours instead of 12.
Many would say for road trips or group rides just buy another gas bike and use that.
For me, I'd rather make the Zero better so we don't need to have a backup gas bike yet still do all the things motorcyclists like to do.
The frame doesn't need a redesign, the current one can do it fine. I know because I have done this on the 2012 frame already, and the new frame is a lot stronger. But if the frame were to be redesigned ever, it would make sense to take this into consideration. Not for everyone, but I'll bet almost everyone will appreciate the option if they ever need it.
Imagine for all the Zero owners who make the SF to LA trip or other long trips on their Zero every so often, being able to go to their dealer and be able to pick up a set of batteries for the weekend and a pair of chargers to make the trip in 6 hours vs the 12 it takes now. And that is with a supercharger!
With the ChargeTank it would take about 18 hours, and with just the onboard of course it would take 46 hours, so we are making progress.
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Someone at the Zero event asked about graphine. I am pretty sure that the response
from Zero was that the are presently using a very small amount already. Then proceeded
to give a very detailed explanation of battery chemistry.
That was probably Luke talking. :)
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I thought that once the "High Speed Rail Train" gets built, there will be no need to drive a car or ride a motorcycle between SF and LA. I am sure it will solve all of our transportation problems in California. After all, why would anyone want to go to anywhere else but SF or LA? ::)
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Omg! How did I miss this thread?!!!
More battery, more range yes please!
The trailer is a pretty reasonable option to be honest! I have towed beer and a Honda Eui2000. This particular trailer(trail tail) handles it beautifully. Mind you great care was taken to align the wheels up. I got those measurements when you need them:)
The only thing I might think that would need to be addressed would be braking. Pretty sure switching the front from a single disc to a dual disc would do the trick. Because the trail tail attaches at the axle, there is no burden on the suspension. The trailer has the 3 axis mobility so once the wheels are lined up you hardly notice it's there. Biggest concern I had was if the trailer was still attached. Of course it was!
Where you notice the weight is on acceleration and deceleration. The zero motor has more than enough torque to bring her up to speed. On hard breaking, I would feel more comfortable with a dual rotor. Doesn't mean it's perfectly fine for a reasonable load. I have towed up to about 80lbs or so. No problems at all!
Important to mention I did notice a range penalty as one would expect with added weight. But the trail tail is considerably more streamlined and aerodynamic than my side bags.
Once I'm superchargered up and I finish exploring Alaska in the spring. I will swing back down(California) and you fellas can take it for a spin!
I am in California now actually! I didn't bring the trailer thinking that I didn't need the generator for this trip and learning to rely on my side bags and top case for luggage space. Thus freeing up the trailer for the generator. Probably should have brought the trailer and left the side bags at home! But this is how we learn :)
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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I am 6'4" at 240lb. When Zero launched a customer survey a few months ago, they had a question about one thing we'd like them to do the most - my response was "you need to make a bigger bike with more carrying capacity." I simply can't take on 160lb on my bike, it will leave me no room for any travel gear.
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I am 6'4" at 240lb. When Zero launched a customer survey a few months ago, they had a question about one thing we'd like them to do the most - my response was "you need to make a bigger bike with more carrying capacity." I simply can't take on 160lb on my bike, it will leave me no room for any travel gear.
I said the same thing. I would like them to introduce a larger chassis that could accommodate more batteries and provide more room for the rider, passenger and luggage. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon. :(
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I said the same thing. I would like them to introduce a larger chassis that could accommodate more batteries and provide more room for the rider, passenger and luggage. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon. :(
Basically we need an electric equivalent of 1200 GS :)
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Yes I agree with all of you. Zero started with the "Drift" which was tiny in the effort to reduce weight as everything possible to reduce energy consumption from the costly and bulky batteries was desired. Well from 2011 to 2013 each year there was rapid development. The battery energy density grew, and therefore it was less important to worry about ounces in the frame having an impact on range and so the frame also got stronger each year. The last major chassis change happened in 2013 and so quite a few years has passed and energy density has also continued to go up. So lets hope next frame is much larger and much stronger to adapt to many uses, and many riders.
I have a good friend in Santa Cruz who drives a Tesla and wants a Zero, but he is 6'8" and 300 pounds and doesn't fit. He always jokes and asks if Craig Vetter and I can put 2 Zero frames together or something for him so he and other tall or big guys can enjoy buying and riding a Zero too. Although having the frame lower in the back to allow a shorter seat that still has padding is important too. I'd like to see riders that are 4'10" to 5'5" be able to flat foot if needed.
All rider height issues could be solved with 3 different seating options with the main seat (like the one now) reaching the biggest area under the bell curve or 70% of motorcyclists, and the 15% of really tall and big riders, and the 15% of short riders could get a special seat to fit them better as long as the frame design had this in mind. Doesn't sound like much but it means Zero could sell potentially 30% more motorcycles just from this alone. Worth designing 3 seat options in my opinion. Even if it only ended up being 20% more riders, since Zero is selling more bikes each year, this becomes a bigger number and could be justified.
I hope if there is a redesign planned in the future that the chassis is built with touring potential in mind. If someone wants to have 40 kWh of battery on the bike, it should be able to handle it size and weight wise. Luggage weight potential in the back needs to go up. And having the frame go all the way to the back tire as one piece to save parts, save money, save assembly cost, and add strength. Right now the frame arches back from the center tube but stops 3 times shorter than it should. A solid aluminum cast piece is bolted in, and then an extender is bolted to that to have the license plate and reflector be at the back of the bike.
As time goes on it would seem making the bike cost less to produce would be a desirable goal, and reducing the number of parts that need to be ordered, stored, and then the time to assemble all of them could be cut from a design that had a strong frame that went all the way to the back of the back tire to begin with and could carry a passengers weight in batteries at the back if you wanted to.
Zero is just now 10 years old. Lets hope we can see something like this before the next 10 years is up.
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To answer the original question, I am happy with the current range and I love the storage compartment. I have a second bike for distance riding but 98% is local riding. I have never been stranded from running the battery dead in 9000+ miles.
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Someone at the Zero event asked about graphine. I am pretty sure that the response
from Zero was that the are presently using a very small amount already. Then proceeded
to give a very detailed explanation of battery chemistry.
That was probably Luke talking. :)
IIRC Luke said he couldn't talk about the graphene. : - ). Which is not the same thing as denying it.
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To answer the original question, I am happy with the current range and I love the storage compartment. I have a second bike for distance riding but 98% is local riding. I have never been stranded from running the battery dead in 9000+ miles.
A couple of months ago I'd have said I absolutely wanted all the battery I could get. And for long road trips through the desert, it's really necessary. But SCv2 has changed that a bit for me. When it's fast to plug in and unplug, and you can make to the next station without stress, and there's a nice place to sit and have an espresso or take a walk, it's not such a big issue. At least in places where there are enough stations.
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I have a friend who owns two BMWs and he was speaking to a Zero rep at their test ride event last Sunday morning (he is also the guy that asked about the cost of a replacement belt) and his comment was that he would buy an electric motorcycle when they finally could travel for 200 miles at freeway speeds as that was his typical ride without stopping. The response was that "we will get there soon as battery capacity is increasing every year".
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Somehow I missed this thread until today. My 2c on the subject as someone who mostly commutes on his DSR and prior to this owned ICE bikes is that while the idea of being able to go further sounds great on paper, I am not sure I'd want to spend that long on my DSR. My prior bike...a 2011 Triumph Tiger...was way more comfortable and stable at freeway speeds than my DSR is, so for me, I think I am in the camp of keeping a 2nd bike around for longer trips. I am not sure I could ever go back to commuting on an ICE bike though, and rides in the local twisties are way more fun on the Zero than they were on my Tiger.
That said, maybe with some minor tweaks to the ergonomics of my DSR to make it more freeway-worthy, it'd be the equivalent of finally pooping inside after years of thinking I was happy going to the outhouse, to draw in one of Terry's other analogies.
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a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?
I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)
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a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?
I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)
My friend likes to ride at 75 mph on the freeway so that he can keep up with traffic. I might add that some years ago he rode from the BMW rally in Spokane, WA to his home in the SF Bay Area, nonstop on a BMW F650CS, without a break - something that I could never do. (I managed that ride in two days.) So he is kind of a hardcore rider. He is currently riding a BMW F800ST and rides 50 miles every Sunday morning to Alice's restaurant and back home. (Personally, I wouldn't do that for their food. ::) )
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As someone who has done "day trips" starting at 7am and ending at 11pm on my bike range is king. This is the very reason I am streamlining my bike ... reduce the energy used at speed and you get more range for the same power.
If zero came out with a cruising scooter format bike I would seriously consider it as it already blocks wind, it is likely to get more range, and it would be easy to add a tail on it :D
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a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?
I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)
I hope that sometimes in the future they do a similar battery swapping thing like with MY13, a lot of people might be interested in it.
On the subject of your next car, do it! Practically every commute can be made with an EV and if you have a really bad case you can always go plug-in hybrid so that at least the first section will be electric.
My friend likes to ride at 75 mph on the freeway so that he can keep up with traffic. I might add that some years ago he rode from the BMW rally in Spokane, WA to his home in the SF Bay Area, nonstop on a BMW F650CS, without a break - something that I could never do. (I managed that ride in two days.) So he is kind of a hardcore rider. He is currently riding a BMW F800ST and rides 50 miles every Sunday morning to Alice's restaurant and back home. (Personally, I wouldn't do that for their food. ::) )
Fo
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As someone who has done "day trips" starting at 7am and ending at 11pm on my bike range is king.
I don't know. Rapid plug in, rapid go, charging available at every stop, opens up range. I can now charge at 10,000 watts up to about 80%, and if I ride at 5,000, I get two minutes of riding for every minute I'm charging. So I'm inclined to not even use my full range, just ride on 20-80%, i.e. about 6 Kwh of my 10 nominal of my 11.4 stated. (Except, of course, start at 100% after overnight charging.)
This is the very reason I am streamlining my bike ... reduce the energy used at speed and you get more range for the same power.
I agree 100%.
If zero came out with a cruising scooter format bike I would seriously consider it as it already blocks wind, it is likely to get more range, and it would be easy to add a tail on it :D
I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.
But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015. I chose the SR. I don't regret it.
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a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?
...
Terry has a reputation for riding fast.
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I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.
But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015. I chose the SR. I don't regret it.
Give me a honda tmax with burgman adjustable windshield / mirrors in electric and I would likely be gleaming ear to ear lol
My 2013 is one of the first SR's in existence ;)
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I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.
But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015. I chose the SR. I don't regret it.
Give me a honda tmax with burgman adjustable windshield / mirrors in electric and I would likely be gleaming ear to ear lol
My 2013 is one of the first SR's in existence ;)
Well, it looks like you can get burgmaneque components all the way up to a full vx-1 at vectrixparts.com. F-book reminded me that I re-shared a "vectrix is back" article a year ago.
And you can probably motorize mirrors by finding some car mirrors at a junkyard.
Electric windshield? Hmmmm.... really?
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Electric windshield? Hmmmm.... really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTE3jzNvYTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTE3jzNvYTw)
Yeah really ... it is slick.
How much battery can you shove into a vectrix and what range will it get with that at highway speeds? Could your ride it year round in a place where it gets -10 F to 110F and rains often?
The closest thing to a long range scooter i can find is the LRC-X by ZEV and they do real road testing for their numbers (not dyno testing) ...
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BMW will release a long range version of it's electric scooter C-Evolution that features a 12 kWh battery and thus should have similar range as our Zeros. Comes with integrated 3kW charging and a battery temperature management if I'm not mistaken.
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BMW will release a long range version of it's electric scooter C-Evolution that features a 12 kWh battery and thus should have similar range as our Zeros. Comes with integrated 3kW charging and a battery temperature management if I'm not mistaken.
The 12kWh LR C-Evolution is touted to have a range of 99 miles ... that isn't acceptable. My current zero can do that and it still has a MY13 battery ;)
The LRC-X with a smaller pack somehow manages to get 185mi, actual miles tested on the road, at 55mph and 100mi at 70mph ... they are the closest to the 200 mile mark right now. The zev's bikes are really long ... you would have to extend your S / DS 13" in the rear to get the same wheel base; it also sits 6" off the ground. Couple this with a full fairing, hub motor, low seating and it seems to be a winning combination.
For those wondering FX modules CANNOT fit on an ZEV LRC ... the battery box is too narrow. I have several bikes / scooters in a file scaled to the same size including different batteries (both tesla' packs, the fx modules, monolith etc) ... this includes bikes like the burgman and tmax so I can tell what will work and what is likely fantasy.
On a side note I don't know if a stock LRC-X could ever do an ironbutt without modification. You would have to stop to charge at least 9 times but more likely you wouldn't stop every 100 miles (which is max at 70mph) but every 60 miles to charge. This means stopping 16 times to charge for 36 minutes, round to 45 if we include setup etc so we are looking at 12 hours of "charging" and 14.28 hours of riding :/
If the bike had even better aerodynamics, a larger pack than it does now, you rewound the motor to be more efficient at higher speeds, or you chose to charge above 1C you could just make it (they use batteries which can charge at a max of 3C). Ironbutts on electrics seem to be about higher averages speeds, longer ranges, and higher charging rates if you want to come in under 24 hours with the current battery technologies ...
On far off side note ... I would love to see Cycle Analyst outputs which include gps data graphed out for EV manufactures who publish "max range at X speed" claims ... it would go a long way to proving their claims :D
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The trailer is a pretty reasonable option to be honest! I have towed beer and a Honda Eui2000. This particular trailer(trail tail) handles it beautifully. Mind you great care was taken to align the wheels up. I got those measurements when you need them:)
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Hey, yeah, can I get those measurements?
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The trailer is a pretty reasonable option to be honest! I have towed beer and a Honda Eui2000. This particular trailer(trail tail) handles it beautifully. Mind you great care was taken to align the wheels up. I got those measurements when you need them:)
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Hey, yeah, can I get those measurements?
The Trail tail is for the most part symmetrical, but with the gearing(I assume) spacers are used to line up the wheels. One spacer is 1 1/32 inches or 27mm. The other is 5/16 inch or 8mm.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/c0f4b733ffdb0103f631bedb13cef329.jpg)
Pic of my backup spacers on a zip tie. (Apologies for the poor lighting and shadows)
*moderator edit* add width to img tag
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Thanks! So basically the Kawasaki version fits except for the
length of the bar going though the axle? You just added the spacer?
I'm thinking of getting the naked steel part, making an aero tail with a
proper taper to continue the line I set with the tail I'm making for the
motorcycle.
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Thanks! So basically the Kawasaki version fits except for the
length of the bar going though the axle? You just added the spacer?
I'm thinking of getting the naked steel part, making an aero tail with a
proper taper to continue the line I set with the tail I'm making for the
motorcycle.
I assume, is the Kawasaki narrower? These are the hollow spacers between the trailer arms and the bike. I assume that is the main variation between bikes.
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
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> ... I assume, is the Kawasaki narrower? ...
No idea. The only mounting kit I saw was:
https://trailtail.com/product/kawasaki-klr-650-mounting-kit/
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definitely interested in extra range and would be willing to pay $1000 AUD for it, but probably no more then that, I've seen other ideas thrown around but in a price range of $4000+ AUD, which is way more then I'm willing to pay for batteries, I would like to potentially double my range on my bike by adding aerodynamic fairings and extra batteries, but being able to pay for that has been a problem and I've yet to try to build a fairing because I haven't been able to think of a way to mount it securely enough yet.