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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Manzanita on July 03, 2015, 10:40:45 AM
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Doing two days in a row, Thunderhill July 4/5 with Keigwins. First time to the track with the Zero, very excited to see how it goes. Wondering how it will hold up in the heat (mid-90's predicted)--is the motor going to cut out suddenly or will it limit power pretty smoothly? Also wondering how many sessions I will be able to wring out of the bike per day. Also bringing my Honda 919 as my second bike. I was on the fence about going (because of the heat) until I read this post: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077251&postcount=18 (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077251&postcount=18) Sounds like a great deal, I had to do it.
I actually just swapped my master cylinder to a m/c with a 10mm piston, it has improved the brake feel a little... and for $15, it was hard to beat. The one issue is there is no mirror mount, but I do have a mirror mount on order. It is almost identical to the Nissin M/C, surprisingly good quality, the levers are interchangeable and the light switch swapped okay (needed a couple small washers because the screw is slightly too long). When you calculate the brake caliper displacement to m/c displacement, the Zero is off the chart in a bad way...
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Your Zero will protect itself when the motor overheats by restricting the power the controller can use. It shouldn't cut out but you will find it gets less performance once you go above about 110'C.
You will also need to keep an eye on the battery temperature as it will go up with each track session. Once the battery gets to 50'C you will not be able to charge the battery.
I hope you have an extra charger as the stock charger will only allow you to do about an hour or so of track time even with charging between each session.
Good luck for the day, keep yourself and the bike in the shade as much as possible.
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Thanks for the reply, I didn't think about the charging being limited by the heat. I do not have any sort of external charger, just the plug, but hoping to get 3 sessions/day. I can ride an hour at 70 mph (I have the power tank), and so three 20 minute sessions (with charging in between plus an hour during lunch), I can always swap bikes and let the zero charge for a few hours after the first two morning sessions, so my thinking is that 3 sessions is do-able, barring any issues with heat.
I just saw that AFM races are July 6th/7th at Thunderhill, meaning these sessions will be filled with racers practicing--yikes!
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Some good tips here from BrammoBrian .. obviously Empulse-centric, but most carry over to the Zeros.
http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2653.0 (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2653.0)
120V charging is not going to be very fast. As a guess, a single 20 minute session will use about 6 kWh .. will be pretty heavily dependent upon the track and rider experience. Squeezing in 3 20 minute sessions will probably require 4-6 hours of charging at the track.
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My pace is slow. On similar 50 HP 500cc bikes on the track, I don't think I'm pinning the throttle more than 50% of the time. It seems no matter how hard I try to wring the Zero on windy roads, I can go 100 miles, and so I think worst case is freeway mileage, where I've gone 60 miles and had maybe 10% battery left. Comparing another bike with a different motor is like comparing gas mileage of different engines... Well, excited to find out. I can hold 80 mph on the straights (instead of just trying to pin it) and maybe that will save some battery.
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Only use 80%throttle
flooring it you will overheat
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Manzanita, do me a favor and report back with how it went? Things you'd do differently, what went well, etc?
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Does the track even have EV charging points you could run something more through?
Cheers
--G
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I'm sure there's some heavy duty 120, since people will be using power tools often. Probably hook up a few 1000 watt chargers in there.
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You could bring a fan or two to speed up the cooling between the sessions.
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More importantly than all that don't run flat out every corner hold the throttle at max position where you have been on freeway without overheating, normally its under 80 for me 70-75 keeps it cool enough, barely
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Well today was a little chaotic, but went well; I was able to do three full sessions, each one drawing about 30-36% of the battery--I actually did four sessions, but the first one was sighting laps at low speed and only used 6% of the battery. The bike performed well, I was getting the warning light coming on occasionally, and feeling a loss of power at times, but it never cut out suddenly, and I didn't really have to change my throttle behavior--in other words, I rode like it would take whatever I could give it, and it pretty much did. This is really impressive because it was HOT--97 degrees during my 3pm session.
Because of an accident in the 10:40 A group, we missed the following session, and I did not do the last session, so I only did one session with my other bike--and switching bikes really killed my confidence on the 919... I was happy to jump on the zero at 3pm when it had a good 3+ hours of charging, back up to 53%. I put on my video camera and the quality is not great but I will post up a link when I get that uploaded.
Most of the actual riding was simply limited by my skill level. They ran A, B+ and B-, I was in B- and it was basically C group with a different name. I occasionally scrape the pegs on windy roads, but only had that happen a few times on the track today. My other worry was the grip limits with the tires (Michelin PR3 rear/PR4 front), these are long-wearing sport touring tires, not made for track. The heat really cooked them. At the pace I was running, the grip was fine. I never felt them getting greasy, but I was pretty conservative. I had put the suspension back to the original Catalyst reaction settings last night and it worked fine, very stable.
There were plenty of RV hookup outlets along the pit area wall, but they were almost all taken, I had to hunt around but found one, unfortunately in the full sun. I do think the charging was limited by the heat, as my first charge was over an hour and only increased the charge by 6%.
So to breakdown the discharge rate per 20 minute session:
Session 1 (sighting lap): 100% to 94%
Session 2: 94% to 64%
charged ~ 1 hour: 64% to 70%
Session 3: 70% to 36%
charged ~ 3 hours: 36% to 53%
Session 4: 53% to 23%
- Finished with 23% charge...
I got back to the motel and the logistics of simply finding an outlet was challenging. There were three outdoor outlets that I tried, and all were broken or disconnected. Finally, I removed the screen from my window and ran an extension cord from my room to the bike--luckily the parking space was just outside my window.
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Great that you got that many sessions in. For comparison, how many would an ICE rider have done?
Cheers
--G
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Well typically here they run one session per hour 9am - 4pm, with an hour for lunch, so seven sessions. I think the last session today was less than 50% attendance because of the heat. So without a quick charge scheme or a second bike you're going to lose some track time.
Here is my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b3KBBPbaVY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b3KBBPbaVY)
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Well typically here they run one session per hour 9am - 4pm, with an hour for lunch, so seven sessions.
So normally someone would ride all seven sessions?
Nice video!
Cheers
--G
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Nice riding! I was hoping for more overtakes but I'm a complete noob so expectations prob a bit out there.
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Nice video - looks like fun!
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Thanks you guys. Yeah, most people will do all sessions... you have forty minutes to rest each hour, so it's not that intense.
More overtaking? Them overtaking me, or me overtaking them? : ) Other than a couple stray ninja 300's, most riders either have a 600cc supersport or a 1000cc supersport. Granted, this is basically the beginners group, and so at this skill level, we're not even pushing the bikes (although it doesn't take much skill to twist the throttle on the straights)... which is why I'm able to catch 100+ HP bikes with a 54 HP bike. The first lap of this video cracks me up when I catch the three riders--you know you're in the beginners group when four riders take four completely separate lines! : )
That was my seventh track day, today was my 8th... today was a two group format with 30 minutes per group every hour. It was a blast, I was definitely feeling more comfortable with the bike and was able to catch up to faster bikes in the tight turns... I ran 2 sessions + about 15 minutes of a third, charged from 11% to 25% over lunch and got about 20 minutes out of a fourth session. Today was the five mile course that included tighter more technical turns.
The zero was supposed to be my commute bike and the 919 my track/touring bike, but it was really hard to switch bikes. All that nonsense with the clutch and shifter! : ) Having confidence in your bike is key, and just not feeling confident on the 919...
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Trackday photos: http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web150705/z/imagepages/image13.html (http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web150705/z/imagepages/image13.html)
I was dragging toe, but I swear I have the ball of my foot on the peg, and I was working on avoiding this. Obviously from the photos, I still need to work on this.... hopefully before I destroy my boots!
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The foot pegs are very low on the Zero S/SR and if you do track days regularly you'll need to get some custom rear sets that have the pegs higher and further back otherwise you'll constantly scrape pegs and boots on tight corners.
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The foot pegs are very low on the Zero S/SR and if you do track days regularly you'll need to get some custom rear sets that have the pegs higher and further back otherwise you'll constantly scrape pegs and boots on tight corners.
How easy is it to change back and forth between stock and rearset footpegs? Custom as in expensive one-offs? What does that run?
I don't see myself doing it more than a couple times a year... so my thought is to just leave it. The pegs do fold and there should be almost no weight on that inside peg. The real challenge is not to flinch when you scrape. Also, keeping the bike upright by leaning off more is possible, at least at my level.
I have had four other bikes on the track and all of them, even the 919 have this issue. Its the price you pay to have reasonable all-day riding ergonomics.. sportbikes do not attract me for that reason. I guess a track-only bike is the answer if I were that into it that much.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
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As you're not going out regularly to the track and looking to move up the levels you can probably live with the stock pegs. I was trying to infer that it's not so much your riding style but the fact that the Zero geometry provides limited lean angles with the stock pegs that is the issue.
I don't know if anyone offers to make custom rearsets so can't give you an idea on price or "swapability". I had mine done by a friend with a CNC machine. The Hollywood Electrics guys seem to have made up some which they used at Pikes Peak.
Sounds like you're in a happy place with your Zero so on that basis no need to change.
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Manzanita, do me a favor and report back with how it went? Things you'd do differently, what went well, etc?
Trackdays are an awesome experience and I highly recommend doing them just for fun. I'm not a competitive person and the vibe at the these events is really positive. No one cares about your bike or how fast you are, everyone is just there to have fun. Oh, I guess there are the racers but they are in A group anyways...
Things I could have done...
1) I could have emailed the trackday provider to get the location of the outlets before arriving. Ditto with the motel, although actually they might not have been very helpful--I guess I could have called around to find a place that could actually confirm they had accessible outlets.
2) I did have a problem with tech inspection, actually. I never figured out how to disconnect the front headlight by pulling the fuse (where is the fusebox, btw...) because I figured I could just tape over the headlight, which I did, using the blue tape and then black duct tape... but at tech inspection the front headlight tape was burning hot, and they told me to disconnect it. Well they announced 5 minutes to start my group, and I decided to just cut the high beam wire behind the headlight--I had tried pulling the connector off the headlight, and it would not budge. I had today off and figured out how easy it is to remove the headlight cover (the four screws in front, duh), and I soldered the wire.
The suspension settings I posted in another thread are too stiff for street riding for me, but worked great on the track.
So have you done trackdays before on other bikes?
Some people get the impression that you need special tires, or that the bike prep is complicated. Track providers here aren't even requiring changing your coolant out (glycol coolants were previously not allowed because they're slippery). Disable or cover your lights, remove your mirrors, tape your wheel weights, be sure you have plenty of tread on your tires. That's it I think... and beginners groups here have lower gear requirements--they do not require motorcycle-specific boots (leather boots, even leather hiking boots, are allowed in C group). You do need a leather suit, but again, beginners group are okay with a zip-together leather jacket and pants. Ebay and craigslist are full of good deals on suits. I got my first zip-together suit for $120 I think, and bought my second suit for $220 on ebay. You do need to haul your bike but I pulled two bikes with a U-haul trailer and the trailer rental was $80, picked up friday and dropped off monday morning (today). The sketchy-est (sketchiest?) thing about the weekend for me was hauling two bikes with a 1998 subaru wagon that has 255k miles on it. I installed the trailer hitch for $200 (previously I had a pickup or got a ride in my friends pickup). But I see people hauling single bikes on small trailers with Honda Accords, or whatever...
The barrier for entry isn't really that high. And all these places have free coaches available to either follow you or lead you around. Do it!