ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: cirrus pete on May 29, 2012, 09:13:33 PM
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In case your wondering how many bars you will use up if you leave your 2011 S on overnight I can now provide the answer ;D
I went for a ride on Sunday evening. It was hot and the fan was one when I pulled into the garage. I generally try to leave the bike on until the fan turns off (out of an abundance of caution). Well, I promptly forgot about it and left the power on (w/low beams) from ~8:30pm to around 10am the next day. I had used ~5 bar of the 11 bars powering the bike for 13.5 hours. oops. OTOH, if i ever need a long lasting flashlight during a blackout, I know where to get it.
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Was that 5 bars used just for powering the headlight, or was that also counting the sunday ride?
I left my 2012 Zero on once (while charging). Came back the next morning, headlight was off and the fault indicator was flashing rapidly. Worried me for a moment, but it went away as soon as I unplugged and switched the bike off / on. I think the 2012 bikes just cut off the headlight after a certain period of time .. possibly when plugged in and forgotten, as I did.
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The ride drained ~two bars, the bike had 4 left when I noticed the next morning. I think there are 11 bars (just like the amp in spinal tap), so that is how I got to the 5 bars used. The caveat is that I am not certain there were four bars left, but I know it was more than three. It could have been 5 (using 4 for the flashlight).
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I let my 2011 S run until the fan shuts off too. In this 95-degree weather...soon to be 100 in Texas, it runs 5-10 minutes after you stop. This is worrisome. To me, it means the fan really can't keep up. Compare that to an ICE with a radiator where the fan comes on for maybe 30 seconds before things cool off enough for the fan to turn off. Heat seems to be a problem with the 2012s too since you cannot maintain high speeds in hot weather for very long. This is why I think we will see a liquid cooling system in next year's model, especially if they tweak the motor for more speed/acceleration and increase battery size. At least they test their bikes in sunny California so they are aware of the effects of heat and sun.
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Sunny California? Not so much around Santa Cruz. Lots of fog and wind along the coast. My Zero works just great in that weather. ;D
As far as fans staying on goes, anyone here ever see an air-cooled Buel come to a stop. You turn the bike off and a loud fan blows air over the rear cylinder until the battery runs down. ;)
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I let my 2011 S run until the fan shuts off too. In this 95-degree weather...soon to be 100 in Texas, it runs 5-10 minutes after you stop.
I'm not sure that you'd need to, given that the source of the heat (the electric power) is removed once you turn off the key. It's not like, say, a turbo, where you need to keep oil pressure to the bearings while it spins down. The fan control probably has some hysteresis built into it, maybe a bit too much, so it's not constantly turning off and on.
This is worrisome. To me, it means the fan really can't keep up. Compare that to an ICE with a radiator where the fan comes on for maybe 30 seconds before things cool off enough for the fan to turn off. Heat seems to be a problem with the 2012s too since you cannot maintain high speeds in hot weather for very long. This is why I think we will see a liquid cooling system in next year's model, especially if they tweak the motor for more speed/acceleration and increase battery size. At least they test their bikes in sunny California so they are aware of the effects of heat and sun.
My 2012 DS has no fan. I live in southeast Texas, and it was 92 today. I reached down and touched the motor after riding 20 miles or so, and it was a little warm, but nothing to worry about. The battery enclosure actually felt a little cool to the touch. I suppose the real test will occur in July, when it's in the upper 90s or so here, but I don't anticipate any problems.
I maintained 70 mph for two 20-mile stretches on an 85-degree day not too long ago for a range test, no problem. I think the heat is only an issue at WOT. There's one thread on here where a guy racing a 2012 S removed the lower fairing (which does nothing for cooling, something Zero might want to look into) and was evidently able to race without temperature problems afterward.
California? Well, unless they test in Death Valley, they probably aren't commonly going to see temperatures like we Texans get. It's sunny all right, but it seems to be pretty temperate there near the coast at least, from what I see on the TV weather.
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Right now it is 50 degrees and foggy at my home. I keep praying for warmer weather, but I sure haven't seen much of it this year. Without heat coming off a radiator or cylinder heads, my Zero is really great when riding in warm weather. This is particularly true when in riding in slow heavy traffic or when waiting at a long traffic light. :)
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My experience with electric motors is with e-bikes. Frying electric hub motors is fairly common with e-bikes. I think the inside of the motor is a whole lot hotter than the outside. It does sound like the 2012 motor is well-protected though if it does slow down as the motor is stressed. It would be even better if there was no need for the motor to need to do this though. I haven't fried one yet, but I have had them shut down and feeling the motor it is only warm on the outside, just like the Zero.
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My 2012 DS has no fan. I live in southeast Texas, and it was 92 today. I reached down and touched the motor after riding 20 miles or so, and it was a little warm, but nothing to worry about. The battery enclosure actually felt a little cool to the touch. I suppose the real test will occur in July, when it's in the upper 90s or so here, but I don't anticipate any problems.
I maintained 70 mph for two 20-mile stretches on an 85-degree day not too long ago for a range test, no problem. I think the heat is only an issue at WOT. There's one thread on here where a guy racing a 2012 S removed the lower fairing (which does nothing for cooling, something Zero might want to look into) and was evidently able to race without temperature problems afterward.
I believe the 2012 S and DS bikes do have a fan, but it's mounted inline with the output shaft. If the motor's not turning, the fan isn't tuning.
I've triggered the overheating indicator twice so far. Both times were 80-85 mph, WOT, for several miles. (I get 3.5 miles per bar at those speeds, btw)
I've never seen it at 70 mph freeway speeds or at any lower speed, even when our temperatures have been in the mid 90s.
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You'd have been in better shape if you had an LED headlight ;D
The new reflector-based Truck-Lite only uses 23 watts on lowbeam, and has a really nice beam pattern.
http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/tlc27270c.html (http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/tlc27270c.html)
(http://images16.fotki.com/v388/photos/3/43063/10702316/IMG_0233-vi.jpg)
(http://images112.fotki.com/v681/photos/3/43063/10702316/IMG_0234-vi.jpg)
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Any chance we could get a picture of the beam pattern from the rider viewpoint at night? : )
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I believe the guys in this link did some comparisons. Sadly not with a standard non LED light -- but hten the standard one is pretty skimpy.
PS: review by: Travis Patenaude & Gary ‘bogie’ Bogolin
http://bogiesreviews.webs.com/Review%20-%20Phase%207%20LED%20Headlights%20&%20Passing%20Lamps.pdf (http://bogiesreviews.webs.com/Review%20-%20Phase%207%20LED%20Headlights%20&%20Passing%20Lamps.pdf)
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I believe the 2012 S and DS bikes do have a fan, but it's mounted inline with the output shaft. If the motor's not turning, the fan isn't tuning.
Yup, a flinger-style, mounted inside the housing, but outside the shaft bearing wall, on the left side of the motor, ODE ("opposite drive end"). Pulls air through the motor it looks like. Next time I jack the bike up to let the air out of the front fork I'll crank the throttle and see how much air it moves. And I know this is nothing, but it saddened me nonetheless: the motor shaft is already rusting :( (Oh wait, it's a patina. There, I feel better :))
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You'd have been in better shape if you had an LED headlight ;D
The new reflector-based Truck-Lite only uses 23 watts on lowbeam, and has a really nice beam pattern.
http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/tlc27270c.html (http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/tlc27270c.html)
How much trouble was it to adapt that light to your Zero?
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It looks very nice. I love LED lights (actually, I got a 1850 Lumen LED Bike light and I'm very happy with it)
I was also thinking in upgrading to an LED light, unfortunately these are not legal approved in Spain -unless cerfitied by the bike manufacturerers (which is almost inexistent at the moment) >:(
I found a good solution though. PIAA Xtreme White Plus Anti-Vibration bulb (you get 110/100W of power-equivalent light at a 60/55W consumption, it is actually far better than the std. bulb for around $40, but power drain is the same :(
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Back to California and heat. I ride from my desert place and the last dirt ride I did (late April) finished at the house at 99*F. The outside of the motor was warm but I wouldn't call it hot.
I have yet to ride at over 100* but will soon. Today, at 10 AM, it is already 104* and climbing fast. :P
California has many different temperature zones. I live on the cool coast but spend a lot of time at my desert place. I've seen 117* out there, but I definitely would not be riding in that heat.
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Clic, it's very easy to install, it takes just a few minutes to open the headlight bucket and plug it in.
Proto, I just took some pictures... off, lowbeam, and highbeam. The bike is on it's sidestand and handlebars pointed at the streetlamp just for reference.
(http://images53.fotki.com/v665/photos/3/43063/10702316/IMG_1050-vi.jpg)
(http://images61.fotki.com/v218/photos/3/43063/10702316/IMG_1044-vi.jpg)
(http://images16.fotki.com/v378/photos/3/43063/10702316/IMG_1046-vi.jpg)
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What year is yours? My headlight bucket on my 2012 DS isn't round.
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This 7" round headlight is only for the 2010-2011. If you want to upgrade the 2012 headlight, which I'm assuming uses an H4 bulb, then you can probably use a simple H4 bixenon kit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Bike-Bi-Xenon-HID-Slim-Kit-H4-Hi-Lo-4300K-/170543699672) if there's enough clearance behind the bulb.