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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: gyrocyclist on September 28, 2017, 04:20:23 AM
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I drove from Livermore to West Sacramento today (just under 100 miles) to pick up a windscreen for my new (for me, slightly used) 2016 CB500X. On their website (https://calsci.com/ ) they say they have screens "in testing" for Zeros. I asked about this. Mark showed me some brackets he's fabricated, but said they need a Zero for maybe an hour to test-fit. Hm ... so next Wednesday I'm planning to ride my SR to their shop. If anyone is closer to West Sacramento and/or is interested in CalSci wind screens please contact myself and Mark. If anyone happens to have free time next Wednesday and is interested an a couple of hundred miles ride from the bay area, let me know.
Sidebar: Mark has tons of interesting stories. At the bottom of their website you'll find links to Quantum Relativity, Neural Networks, etc. He also rescues German Shepherds -- his current duo are fantastic! It's worth a trip to tour his shop, including his home-made cutting lasers.
*moderator note* Hey all sorry for broken links at request of OP this topic has been merged with the newer update from Mark (of Cal Sci) (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7381.msg61729#msg61729)
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I drove from Livermore to West Sacramento today (just under 100 miles) to pick up a windscreen for my new (for me, slightly used) 2016 CB500X. On their website (https://calsci.com/ ) they say they have screens "in testing" for Zeros. I asked about this. Mark showed me some brackets he's fabricated, but said they need a Zero for maybe an hour to test-fit. Hm ... so next Wednesday I'm planning to ride my SR to their shop. If anyone is closer to West Sacramento and/or is interested in CalSci wind screens please contact myself and Mark. If anyone happens to have free time next Wednesday and is interested an a couple of hundred miles ride from the bay area, let me know.
I might be interested in their windscreens, if they are better in some ways than the ones available from Zero.
By Wednesday, Oct 4, I will be at my house in Auburn (which is well on the eastern side of Auburn, several miles up the hill from exit 124 Dry Creek Road on I-80) where my 2017 SR is located. I will be there for several days. That is still quite a bit closer than you. But I don't know about riding my electric bike down there as that would probably require some time for recharging and such. Any chance Mark (or whomever) can come to my place in Auburn for their measurements, instead of me going to them?
Perhaps we can work something out.
-Don- Reno, NV
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CalSci windscreens should be very good; I had contacted them in late 2016 about my dustbin fairing fitment but never got to an in-person fitment.
I wound up using a BMW R1200's CalSci windscreen to great effect but that was in concert with the dustbin. The slot in the windscreen does make a nice stabilizing effect on the airflow, so I expect they'll have a good touring windscreen, on par with Parabellum in terms of improving mileage and comfort.
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I live in Sacramento just over the river from West Sacramento. I would be happy to bring my Zero there next Wednesday. Do you know what time?
I will contact Mark tomorrow and let him know.
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I live in Sacramento just over the river from West Sacramento. I would be happy to bring my Zero there next Wednesday. Do you know what time?
I will contact Mark tomorrow and let him know.
I expect to get there around 10:30. What model is your bike? Mine's a 2016 SR. Their website says they're "in testing" for S, SR, DS, DSR. If your bike works for fitting, I'd be happy to *not* play hooky and spend most of a day and 200+ miles on the road.
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I have a 2015 DS. I will plan on going there next Wednesday around 10:30. I am retired so I have plenty of time and would like to help out on this.
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I got a hold of Mark and I will be taking my DS in for a test fit so you don't have to make a trip from Livermore if you don't want to. I will post any info I get from him when I am done.
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Awesome, guys! What windscreen did you get for your 2016 CB500X, gyrocyclist, and how much did you pay?
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PS, everyone, you'll want to read at least the Aerodynamics section on the calsci site:
https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Fairing.html
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Awesome, guys! What windscreen did you get for your 2016 CB500X, gyrocyclist, and how much did you pay?
https://calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/CB500prod.html
After 1st test ride we lowered the windshield; it attaches to the stock mount, which has two positions, maybe an inch apart. Then Mark had me sit on the bike, looked at the fit, and said we should take off 1 1/2" So he did, giving me a tour of the shop in the process. I think it may now be a tad short -- but I can always raise it to the higher setting :) I can't yet give a full report of how much I like it; during the next few weeks I'll try it in the raised position, then put on the stock screen, etc. (Also, I really want to get back on the Zero). The screen definitely provides more protection than stock. Driving to Sacramento and back convinced me the cb500X is great up to 75mph, but not really designed for 85. I rode mostly between 60 and 70mph, and was happily surprised to get 70 miles per gallon!
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Let us know how the Zero Calsci visit goes, guys, which of their products they'll offer.
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Let us know how the Zero Calsci visit goes, guys, which of their products they'll offer.
Since hiposw has a DS, and I have an SR, and I don't know if the windscreen fit/mounts will differ, I'm headed to Sacramento tomorrow. Will let you guys/gals know. Hm, might put in a 250 mile day ...
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Let us know how the Zero Calsci visit goes, guys, which of their products they'll offer.
Both I and hiposw arrived at calsci yesterday around ten-ish. H. had to leave
for other appointments after an hour or so. I left around five-ish, with a
prototype windscreen. Initial impression is positive, though there are a couple
of issues. Will pen a more complete report, with photos, in a week or two, after
spending more time with the new screen.
Does anyone have data on turning radius for "naked" S/SR/DS/DSR?
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(https://calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Zero/ZeroDSa.jpg)
All mounting hardware included.
Available in 4 heights and 3 widths.
https://calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Zeroprod.html
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Damn....my bike's getting a new windshield.
Which size is that? It appears to be tinted, though the website only mentions the "shorty" being tinted. Are they all tinted (or available tinted)?
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Haven't had a chance to check the website yet, but do they indicate the effect on range with these screens in place?
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Interesting.... using the headlight mounts instead of a handlebar mount.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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I'm waiting on that full-fairing kit from Hollywood Electrics, but these do look good.
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I am guessing this will work on a Brammo/Victory Empulse as well since they use the same headlight and mounting points as a Zero.
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Interesting.... using the headlight mounts instead of a handlebar mount.
I'm guessing both. Two points wouldn't make for a stable mount.
Incidentally, I just got a ping, apparently mine has already shipped. How's that for service??
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(https://calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Zero/ZeroDSa.jpg)
All mounting hardware included.
Available in 4 heights and 3 widths.
https://calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Zeroprod.html
Some quick notes. (1) The photo is for the prototype on my bike from this past Wednesday (October 4, 2017). This was the first ever build, and after 100 miles (riding home) it's too soon to really tell if/how it affects mileage (that said, I didn't notice any affect, so it's probably minor). (2) The screen cuts off a bit of the rear-view mirror. I didn't notice this until I got most of the way home. It's not much, and you can see the whole mirror by moving your body/head an inch or so. Also, Mark had mentioned making the screen a bit narrower, which would obviate this (um, just re-read the post and see that he's offering three widths). (3) I think there's a problem with the 'hole' in the screen. This is one of calsci's trademarks, and there are reasons why it's there. BUT ... one of the guys (Mark or Stephan) mentioned that ideally the air coming through the hole should hit something (I think to deflect the air up or down -- my interpretation, not their exact words). This is exactly what happens for the shield I got for my new (to me) CB500X. However, the wind coming through the hole on the Zero screen hits me square in the chest. When I put my hand over the hole, completely or partially covering it, the ride was MUCH better (highway speeds). I plan to experiment with either covering the hole or placing some sort of baffle behind it. Mark also mentioned (best I can recall) that he planned to lower the hole and reduce the area. (4) Due to the design of the support brackets the bike's turning radius is reduced. I hope to measure this soon. (5) the brackets that go around the fork are very slightly loose. Mark said he buys them pre-made, and can only get them in 1/4 inch increments. I plan to take mine off and pad them with a bit of rubber from a bicycle tire. Even though they're slightly loose the screen was pretty rock-solid up to 80mph.
All of that said ... I like the screen. A lot. I think "note (4)" could be of concern to some, depending on your riding habits and expectations. Will report back after I've measured the turning radius with/without the screen
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Damn....my bike's getting a new windshield.
Which size is that? It appears to be tinted, though the website only mentions the "shorty" being tinted. Are they all tinted (or available tinted)?
My measurements for the pictured screen are: WL = 19, OH = 20. I measured point-to-point as opposed to around the curvature for WL, so this best corresponds to the "medium touring." Note, my screen is flat across the bottom, which differs from the blueprint on the calsci website. For reference, I'm 5, 8" (173cm). I buy jeans with 32" inseam, and they just touch the floor behind my heal if I'm barefoot.
My best guess is that tinting is a safety issue. You're supposed to look over the screen, not through it. But, if your screen is tall enough that you can crouch down and look through it (which I can with mine), then tint may be an issue, e.g, at night. I'm guessing Mark will build whatever you want, if you insist, even if he thinks it won't work for you. Please remember, Mark (and his crew) have much experience designing and fitting windscreens. Their recommendations are the best ... unless you can stop by their shop for a custom fitting.
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Do they charge extra for a fitting consultation?
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Do they charge extra for a fitting consultation?
I think not. They're a small operation -- give them a call/email. Mark's in the process of moving from CA to someplace in the midwest, so I'd get in touch soonest. They spent some no-cost time trimming the screen for my CB500X; definitely worth visiting their shop to ensure you get what works best for you, vs ordering off-the-rack.
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That is an interesting mount. It definitely attaches at both points to the headlamp, and then bends at top to accommodate four points on the windscreen.
I spent a good amount of time trying to avoid restricting the steering limits, so I’m a little confused by both this and the high placement of the NACA inlet shaped slot.
The slot should be lower on a Zero, because its purpose is to minimize the pressure difference around the upper edge of the screen to minimize vortices.
On my CalSci, made for a BMW, the slot is lower and the airflow through it proceeds upward under the screen. This is the intended effect more or less, and I will say that the CalSci aerodynamics page was part of my reading material figuring out what to assemble.
I will say that I selected my CalSci screen to complement a dustbin fairing, which does most of the work of diverting airflow parallel to the screen. I even picked a shorter screen to do less work on the air... my larger Parabellum was uselessly doing too much work on the air and causing vortices.
If I were you, I’d try to capture more air from under the screen between it and the headlamp, or tilt the screen so the top edge is lower, and add a Laminar Lip curved spoiler to it.
I’m attaching photos of my arrangement to illustrate.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/6729644cd77bb66692f47f67d801055a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/69aa0d172db81af18f1241905dca5637.jpg)
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Thanks for doing this and reporting about it!
I'm going Thursday, they open at 9. Looking at this route: https://goo.gl/maps/jsdvLiC9VU22 (More charge stops than necessary but there's no harm in shorter stops, verifying charging station capabilities, adding them to the e-touring collaborative map. I'd consider more riding off of the big freeway, but sadly there are fires and possible road closures.)
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Thanks for doing this and reporting about it!
I'm going Thursday, they open at 9. Looking at this route: https://goo.gl/maps/jsdvLiC9VU22 (More charge stops than necessary but there's no harm in shorter stops, verifying charging station capabilities, adding them to the e-touring collaborative map. I'd consider more riding off of the big freeway, but sadly there are fires and possible road closures.)
Personal visit to buy is best option, if you live nearby. They'll customize/cut down/modify as needed. Am looking forward to your experience.
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I received my x-wide, x-tall windscreen from CalSci on Tuesday, and installed it last night (Wednesday, 11/11/2017). Sad to say, I can't really recommend it at this point.
In general, I like the shape of the screen itself, and the way it fits on the bike, although I wish it provided coverage for my hands the way my old Slipstreamr does. But the mounting bracketry just seems poorly designed to me (and ugly as well), almost to the point of being unusable.
Each side bracket attaches to the lower, forward headlight attachment screw, and to a "cushion clamp" attached to the fork tube on that side of the bike (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/ShieldInstall.html#Zero , the very last entry on the page). At least in my case (it's possible my 2014 SR has smaller diameter fork tubes than the clamp is designed for) that clamp is so loose on the fork tube that it slides up and down easily, providing essentially no rigid mounting point. This causes the windshield to have a lot of freedom to move around front to back, which is pretty unacceptable to me. I don't want my windshield rattling around as I ride.
Left-to-right motion is also pretty bad. The brackets are relatively thin (I'm guessing 1/4", though I didn't measure them) and completely flat except the portion that attaches to the windshield itself, mounted in a fore-aft direction. The lack of flanges or any side-to-side structure at all gives the bracket little if any rigidity in the left-right direction, so the windshield doesn't resist movement in that direction well, either. It can easily be pushed far enough sideways to contact the mirror stalks on either side. I'm not happy about that, either.
In addition, the brackets do make contact with the "gas tank" plastics on either side, reducing steering lock a bit. It's not much, but it doesn't speak well to the quality of the design. I'm also not impressed by all the Phillips-head screws and bolts, though in fairness they are at least chrome-plated for some weather resistance. But I'd much rather see Allen- or Torx-head hardware, and I'm willing to spend a bit extra for stainless steel as well.
There was also an issue with the attachment of the windshield to the brackets. Large, thick grommets had been installed in the holes in the windshield, which seems like a decent mounting solution, but the thickness of them made the attachment screws too short to engage the "well nuts" on the other side. (Notice that there is no grommet indicated in the sketch on the above link.) If I removed the grommet, I'd have had to use a big fender washer under the head of the nut, which wasn't provided, and I don't want to have metal directly on the plastic anyhow -- I think that's a recipe for cracking the plastic fairly quickly.
I haven't ridden the bike in this condition, and I won't. The windshield is just too insecurely mounted for my taste even if I do sort out the grommet/well nut/fender washer situation. The Slipstreamr is going back on tonight. Perhaps with a better mounting solution, I'd be convinced to switch over, but not as things stand.
I've sent an email to CalSci detailing all this, and I'm more than happy to discuss anything they'd wish to discuss. But I can't recommend their package right now.
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I posted my review of the commercial package at http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7408.msg61822#msg61822 . I wish I could say it made a better impression on me than it did, though of course YRMV (Your Range May Vary).
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Windshield was $260 plus tax. $40 of that was for it being custom. If they'd have had to use a taller blank it would have been more.
I got there at 9AM, we tried a couple of radiuses, they adapted a CAD design and they were laser cuttering it by 10. They cleaned up the edges and heated it in the oven and slumped it over a form, and I had it out the door by 11:30.
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Windshield was $260 plus tax. $40 of that was for it being custom. If they'd have had to use a taller blank it would have been more.
I got there at 9AM, we tried a couple of radiuses, they adapted a CAD design and they were laser cuttering it by 10. They cleaned up the edges and heated it in the oven and slumped it over a form, and I had it out the door by 11:30.
Can you post some pics? I'd like to compare it to mine, to see what has changed (position/size of the hole; mounting brackets, etc.). Also, what was customized (apologies if you mentioned that earlier and I missed it).
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Uh, OK. My use case isn't exactly standard.
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Uh, OK. My use case isn't exactly standard.
Thanks!
All, FYI, at my request Shadow merged the two threads on CalSci wind screens - one was started by me, the other by Mark Lawrence.
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I shimmed out my fork clamps (adhesive-backed sheet rubber, https://www.amazon.com/33-P007-062-002-036-General-Durometer-Adhesive-Thickness/dp/B00P5VQ7HE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1508024846&sr=8-5&keywords=adhesive+rubber+sheet ). I put the adhesive side against the inside of the clamp, so I can move it wherever on the fork tube it wants/needs to go to position the bracket correctly. They now don't move on the fork tube at all.
It helped quite a bit. The for/aft movement is completely gone, but the shield still does rattle side-to-side a lot more than I'd like...it bangs against the mirror stalks almost constantly as I ride, the left side more than the right. This is clearly caused by the flat brackets not having enough rigidity in that plane.
Other than that, though, the shield is quite nice. It's much tighter to the front of the bike than my old Slipstreamr was, which is definitely a good thing. It looks much better on the bike and I don't get a huge reflection off of my headlight, since the shield is behind the headlight. I don't know if I got the smaller/lower vent that gyrocyclist was talking about, but I don't really notice it much at all. There's very little air movement behind the shield at freeway speeds. It doesn't cover my hands like the Slipstreamr did, but since it's mounted further back that would require pretty major changes to the shape.
I got the x-wide, x-large shield, which is probably why it hits the mirror stalks. The narrower ones might not do that. I'm not that tall, 5'11", though I do have fairly short legs (28-29" inseam), but I was surprised that I can easily see over the top of the x-tall screen, line of sight of the top of the screen being 10-15 feet ahead of me on the street. It's perfect for me, really. There's a lot less wind hitting the top of my helmet than with the Slipstreamr, though it mounts a lot closer to me (or maybe BECAUSE it mounts closer).
I've definitely decided to use it rather than the Slipstreamr. I'll probably pad the mirror stalks so they don't chip the plastic, and I'm toying with cross-bracing the brackets somehow so they don't rattle from side to side. I'll also be ordering some allen-head stainless steel attachment hardware, which I've been doing all over the bike as I work on it. Other than that, I'm a believer now. Earlier this week I wasn't happy I'd spent my money on this windshield, now I definitely am.
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I shimmed out my fork clamps (adhesive-backed sheet rubber, https://www.amazon.com/33-P007-062-002-036-General-Durometer-Adhesive-Thickness/dp/B00P5VQ7HE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1508024846&sr=8-5&keywords=adhesive+rubber+sheet ).
...snip...
Doug S, I posted a few minutes before or after you did, and think my post got lost. Anyway, this afternoon I slipped a couple of thicknesses of bicycle tube over the fork clamps, and there is now no slippage. The screen is definitely more solid/stable. I would like to see improved mounting brackets. Ideally I think they should be made of aluminum, and could be engineered to avoid reducing the bike's turning radius. Of course that would add to the cost, and I don't think (??) Mark works that much with aluminum. I'd design and build -- except I don't have the tools or skill set.
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I would like to see improved mounting brackets. Ideally I think they should be made of aluminum, and could be engineered to avoid reducing the bike's turning radius. Of course that would add to the cost, and I don't think (??) Mark works that much with aluminum. I'd design and build -- except I don't have the tools or skill set.
When I was emailing with them, I asked Steven if the brackets were 3D printed or (as I suspected) laser cut out of flat stock, then heated and bent to form the tab that has the windshield attachment points. Turns out I was right. He said that he'd worked with 3D printed parts and wasn't impressed --said they had "microporosity" which made them weak. I was going to point out that the heated area on their bracket was certainly weakened -- look at it on your brackets -- but didn't bother. They're clearly in love with their laser cutter and don't want to hear about a better way of doing things.
I'm fairly seriously toying with the idea of modeling up a proper bracket in 3D, and having it printed up (I've used www.shapeways.com very successfully). Even with my very modest skills (I'm an EE, not an ME), I think it would be much more rigid, stronger (I'm not at all convinced they know the difference between strength and rigidity), and wouldn't interfere with anything. Sure, an aluminum bracket would be even better, but a proper plastic bracket should be more than adequate for this part.
It would look much better as well. I'm all about function over form, but even I'm a little embarrassed about the way the brackets they supplied look.
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Steven has a degree in mechanical engineering from UC Davis. He knows the difference between rigidity and strength very well. His background in materials is quite strong.
Steven has built his own 3D printer. His brother Leon is working on a masters degree at U MO, specializing in 3d printing of metals and high energy laser cutting. Steven and Leon built our current laser. We're pretty clear on the strengths and weaknesses of each manufacturing method. I've used Shapeways myself. Go ahead and have them print something up for you. Good luck with those brackets. I predict they'll last less then 500 miles. You'll get a quick hands-on lesson in rigidity (very good) v. strength (lousy). And an aluminum bracket would not survive the bending process. Steel or ABS or Delron is the answer here. We chose ABS.
I have a degree in electrical engineering from Caltech. I've also taught physics and astronomy at USC. I'm the one who makes sure all our shield shapes are solutions to the LaPlace equation, thus guaranteeing they do not generate turbulence.
The bend in our ABS parts does not weaken them.
You want to bet on some company not knowing what they're doing, you would do well to find a different company to bet on.
BTW, the fasteners we sent you were 100% stainless steel. We don't stock anything else.
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Thanks Mark! It's good to have you in the forum.