ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MostlyBonkers on March 07, 2017, 03:52:55 AM
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My first set of bearings (from new) failed at 8,000 miles. I got them replaced but less than 3,000 miles later the new ones failed and the one on the right hand side disintegrated! I've reported it to Zero but I thought some of you might be interested in seeing the pics. There's a lot of damage to various parts as the fragments of the broken bearing acted as a lathe scooping out the metal.
I'm amazed that the wheel didn't cease up! I guess they're designed not to fail in a catastrophic manner.
I'm hoping Zero will give me a new rear wheel that can house better bearings. Under warranty of course, as this is a known problem. I've just reported it to them and my local dealer will be calling them tomorrow. Fingers crossed this can be resolved in a good way and I can get my bike back soon. Since I got my new tyres, I've been going through a second honeymoon with it. I've got a Kawasaki Z300 as a courtesy bike. It's nice to ride in many ways but when I open the throttle there's a distinct lack of any acceleration. I miss my Zero already!
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Wow, that looks bad! Did you not feel the signs before the damage occurred? Just curious if a failure like this would be something one could usually notice before it damages the wheels...
3k miles seems like an awfully short time to fail though. I wonder if there was a problem with the installation, or maybe some of the damage had already occurred when the first set failed and was not addressed before installing the last bearings?
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Like Kocho, these reported bearing failures have me curious.
In almost 30 years of dirt riding, I've never had a set of wheel bearings fail (although my luck will surely change now that it's in writing). That said, I regularly check for play in the the wheels and proactively replace bearings as needed. Checking bearing wear is pretty easy to do, on most dirt bikes anyway, by putting the bike on a stand and attempting to wobble each wheel with two hands to feel for side-to-side play.
For those who have experienced this issue: Are the Zero bearing failures occurring with no warning signs, or is a bearing check just not very routine among street riders?
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I had a friend who owned a new 1977 AFM H-D and had his rear wheel bearing fail and the wheel seize up at around 7,000 miles. It turned out that the bearings were not greased at the factory. The interesting thing is that the bearings apparently lasted all of those miles without any grease in them. ???
That Zero bearing failure is a real mystery to me. It must have been the result of some sort of assembly error.
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It's my understanding that Zero changed the wheels on 2015 models and above. The new wheels house much bigger bearings which are sealed.
I've read reports of bearing failure on 2014 models and below from other riders here, although their bearings lasted longer in the first place.
The bearings are just too small and can't handle the load. I think they're also not well protected from the elements, so perhaps water gets in there, washes away the grease and bad things happen.
I'll let you all know how things progress. The mechanic at my dealer said he hadn't seen anything like it before.
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Mine died at 10000 miles and I started to hear a thudding click and couldn't figure out what it was as it would come and go. They said they had to cut the races out of mine. Way too weak for the bike.
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I had my bearings fail over 3 times in the first 3000 km of my 2014 FX.
Zero did not agree to replace anything under warrenty.
Eventually, had the aluminium spacer replaced with a new one made of steel (had to pay to a local machinist for it).
Ever since, works great.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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I had a friend who owned a new 1977 AMF H-D and had his rear wheel bearing fail and the wheel seize up at around 7,000 miles. It turned out that the bearings were not greased at the factory. The interesting thing is that the bearings apparently lasted all of those miles without any grease in them. ???
My 1979 AMF HD rear wheel bearing failed! Basic disintegrate, the lockup was more from the bearing bits getting wedged into the brakes than any axle bind. I forget the odometer.
It still has bits of metal smeared into allen key holes like butter between corn kernels.
A little clunk or shake is hard to notice on the Harley. With the Zero - "is that buzz the road or the bike" is a common question in my head, answered only by changing the bearings to great effect or changing them to no effect. Jacking up the bike and spinning and shaking isn't conclusive test, either because rider perception of a vibration really starts with a tiny tiny vibration. I'd really like a set of bearings I could count on for at least a couple of tire changes.
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Eventually, had the aluminium spacer replaced with a new one made of steel (had to pay to a local machinist for it).
Ever since, works great.
It sounds like overtightening (or just properly tightening) the spindle nut crushed the aluminium spacer. That and unsealed bearings would do it.
I've only done a couple of hundred miles on my FXS but the thing that struck me the most is how you can feel every ripple and piece of gravel on the road surface without the engine vibration. I'm amazed that bearings can get to the sort of state shown in the photos without it being really obvious.
I was already thinking about asking about things that are not quite right from the factory. This thread confirms that I should.
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They were replaced by a professional mechanic. Could be over tightening, but why does it happen to 2014 models only? Probably something is not properly designed in these models.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Mine is a 13 DS but the wheels and bearings were the same. Then in 15 they got new wheels and tires and suspension. I think Harlan was looking into a conversion set up to go to the better wheels and bearings but that kind of thing on a small scale isn't cheap. I torqued mine down to exactly 75 foot lbs and rechecked it about 6 times over the next few months with no movement.
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I might add that it is possible to engineer a motorcycle wheel with durable bearings. My daughter's 1981 BMW R65LS has over 100,000 miles on the clock and still has the original wheel bearings. They are sealed (at least on the outside) and have never been greased or otherwise serviced. But in those days BMW was using very high quality materials. (And the bike even has grease nipples that are used to re-grease the swing arm bearings.) As another example of the bike's quality materials, her very complete stock tool kit has been sitting under the seat for the past 35 years and the tools still look like new, without a spot of rust on them. :)
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The bearings of my sr 2014 failed to 18,000.
Replace them with Japanese sealed bearings. Today with 60000 k are still perfect.
Enviado desde mi 6045B mediante Tapatalk
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The bearings of my sr 2014 failed to 18,000.
Replace them with Japanese sealed bearings. Today with 60000 k are still perfect.
What bearings specifically did you use? Let's get this recorded for others.
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The bearings of my sr 2014 failed to 18,000.
Replace them with Japanese sealed bearings. Today with 60000 k are still perfect.
What bearings specifically did you use? Let's get this recorded for others.
+1 sealed bearings sound good!
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I can see in the third photo it says Koyo 6904RS
http://www.dbearings.com/KOYO/KOYO6904RS (http://www.dbearings.com/KOYO/KOYO6904RS)
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Here are more details
Enviado desde mi 6045B mediante Tapatalk
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Thanks Ser15. No word from Zero or the dealer yet. I'll chase them tomorrow.
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Okay so just that brand against the documented bearing specs? Now to source these...
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In addition to the bearings you must buy the rubber seals of bearings, send photo reference. I do not have a part number, In my case one was not destroyed and used to buy new ones.
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Okay so they're still not sealed bearings so you need the rubber seals, but they manage to last longer?
FWIW when my 13DS bearings were replaced, I got a fresh set of seals just hoping that new ones would prolong life. Unfortunately I only have spare OEM bearings around and not the seals.
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I put it together like factory, with rubber seals.
New bearings are sealed.
Attached rudimentary scheme I hope you understand, I'm sorry for the basics but I do not have any other. I used the original aluminum parts in my case were intact and not damaged.
Attached photos of how it is today. In the photos you can see the aluminum part and the rubber seal
Enviado desde mi 6045B mediante Tapatalk
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That's great Ser, thanks again. Also thanks to Brian for updating the wiki.
Zero are shipping a new wheel over. Don't know the ETA yet. It's a 2014 wheel and it's likely to have bearings already installed. Hopefully they'll last at least 8,000 miles like the first ones did. After that I'll use these great tips to hopefully make the next fix last a lot longer!
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Is the new wheel covered by warrenty?
Glad it's working out for you.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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I've been told by my dealer that it won't be covered by warranty as bearings are a consumable item. However, they've submitted a technical report to Zero and hope that there will be some goodwill.
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I too had the bearing failure on a previous Zero.
I learned the following from examining wheels used by Zero-
First, the quality of the hub and repeatability on the machining of the bearing receivers was poor.
Second, the bearings used are not designed for axial loading. These are standard roller ball bearings and can take only a small percentage of their load rating along the axle line. Cars have tapered bearings (along with the steering neck on bikes) so you can tighten down on the them; they accept radial and axial loads. Zeros standard ball type bearing can not tolerate axial loads.
Third, the width of the aluminum sleeve that runs on the axle between the two inner bearing races (the spacer between the inner bearing races) was shorter than the measured distance the hub establishes between the outer bearing races. Even using a press to make sure the bearings were completely seated in the hub, I still could not get the spacing remotely close to that needed by the inner bearing race spacer. ANY amount of axle nut tightening made for a huge axial pre-load on the rear bearings and caused the rear wheel to slow much faster when I spun it on a bike stand (with the belt off). I did not have a new spacer to see if the above poster's theory about crushing the spacer is accurate. I just did as they did and made one from steel.
The bearings should have a taper element to them or at least be of the deep race variant of standard ball bearing where there is increased axial load capability. In addition, there needs to be accurate spacing of the inner and outer races so as not to pre-load the bearings in the axial direction when you tighten down the axle nut. Lastly, I did not test the theory but I suspected that, as the hub heated from rear disk thermal loads, it would expand more and more quickly then the steel inner race spacer which could put significant axial load stress on the bearings. The hub heating would be spreading the outer races more and faster than the inner race spacer could keep up with. I got rid of the bike.
Bike one 0 one.....
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This is great information all around, thanks to all! I'll have a queue of things to write up once my move is settled more.
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I'm still waiting for the wheel to get to the dealership. Thanks lolachamp for a brilliant post and everyone else that has contributed. It will mean I can keep riding in future, rather than worrying that the bearings will go any minute. Somebody made a schoolboy error on the drawing board by the sound of it.
Thanks also to Brian for all your efforts with the wiki - this will certainly help many others.