ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: BikerJared on May 02, 2015, 12:12:45 AM
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The place where I work had on site chargers but they only have j1772 connections. Is the dealer the only place to buy a decent adapter?
Thanks in advance.
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Talk to Hollywood Electrics.
http://hollywoodelectrics.com/ (http://hollywoodelectrics.com/)
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They've got one but it's at least as expensive as the one from zero. I'm guessing the zero oem one is the cheapest.
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They've got one but it's at least as expensive as the one from zero. I'm guessing the zero oem one is the cheapest.
I don't think the one from Zero has three IEC320C13 cords, to power the on-board charger PLUS two more... but just one!
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He is only looking to power the onboard charger. You can buy a j1772 inlet with wires for $80-$90 from ev sites and then wire it to a IEC320C13 plug on the other end. It's only 3 wires. You should be able to do the whole thing for around $100.
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How are you going to handle the pilot signal on the J1772? The EVSE presumably won't supply power unless the right response is provided.
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Signal circuit here
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg24878#msg24878 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg24878#msg24878)
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Talk to Hollywood Electrics.
http://hollywoodelectrics.com/ (http://hollywoodelectrics.com/)
Three cords, and $100 less than Zero's single cord version. 8)
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I thought the Hollywood Electrics adapter was USD400 and the Zero single plug only USD299 so it's USD100 more for the extra two plugs. Am I missing something?
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The pilot signal circuitry is just a diode + 2.7K resistor. Trivial.
I build my own for less than $100 as others indicate.
I suppose I was lucky to have just the right piece of aluminum tubing in my scrap box.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3038.msg15573#msg15573 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3038.msg15573#msg15573)
fwiw,
Hein
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Thanks for the links, this is very helpful. I tried to get the adapter from zero but the dealer says they are on back order. I may have to build one for less than half. :)
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To update on this, Zero is supposedly back ordered on these adapters. I figured I'd try to build one since they're supposedly simple.
I bought this from here (http://www.tucsonev.com/ (http://www.tucsonev.com/) -- See 'The Inlet with 1 meter of cord'): (http://i.imgur.com/m8LKdHY.jpg) (http://imgur.com/m8LKdHY)
It looks like I need to build the pilot signal part. I'm not a super electronics guru -- I've replaced the screen on my cell phone, installed light switches and outlets in my house, and installed light fixtures. I've soldered things, but I don't know how to read wiring diagrams.
Reference this image for the next part: (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_i_c2BM_uBw4/TR9mOulEE5I/AAAAAAAACDs/8dVMihzK9JA/s1600/J1772-1.jpg)
The way I understand this is this:
There are 5 wires in my adapter. They are RED, GREEN and BLACK, 10 awg wires and a smaller awg RED and BLUE wire. I can use my ohm meter to determine which pin on the connector corresponds to which wire.
It looks like I want to wire either the RED or BLUE wire (depending on ohm meter results) to one end of a diode. Then connect the other end of the diode to a 2.7K resistor (I realize diodes are directional, I'll watch for that). I also need to connect that end of the resistor to another 1.3K resistor. The end of that resistor goes to a switch. The switch and the 2.7K resistors go to the black wire.
Finally, I'll wire everything there up to a computer cable plug, and plug that into the on board charger thingy on the bike.
This should allow me to plug my bike in and flip a switch to start charging.
QUESTIONS:
1. I'm not totally sure which part of the computer wire gets (1) or (2) in that diagram.
2. Where can I buy a freaking diode and resistor? They don't sell this stuff at Walmart, do they? I've found sites online and they sell things things in lots of 1000.
3. I need to find a computer cable of the proper gauge... the manual has listed it, I just need to find it.
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Hey BikerJared,
I am not sure who told you these are backordered, but we have five in stock right now. Part number is 10-03267. Your dealer should be able to order it for you and have it drop shipped.
Note that ours is a dumb adapter. We have this note on our website.
"Also, some public J1772 charging stations require the vehicle to authenticate itself. The SAE J1772 Charging Adapter does not support charging stations that require such authentication."
Regards,
aaronzeromoto
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Poop. It was the local dealer here. I would have ordered one of these with my bike if they hadn't told me this... :/
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Aaron,
Can you explain what is involved in the vehicle authenticating itself by J1772. I'm not aware of anything in the J1772 standard that requires authentication including vehicle details.
Thanks,
David
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BikerJared, dgh853,
What aaronzero means is that you are not going to be able to charge at any GE Wattstation or PEP station.The GE Wattstations and PEP require communication with the BMS before they will deliver power. All other systems once it detects the pilot signal will then deliver power to your bms.
To date those are the only brands of J1772 charger that I have not been able to charge at. When you look on Plugshare it should say what kind of system it is although sometimes you need to look at the photos to tell.
.
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I grabbed two of harlan's programmed elcon's and made my own j1772 with a used inlet from a smart car from EVWest ( http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355 (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355) ) (the inlet was only $48, and is only trivially more with some connectors / resistors / diodes / wires)
Got it working like a charm :-)
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If I wire this wrong, is there a chance I fry my onboard charger?
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made my own j1772 with a used inlet from a smart car from EVWest ( http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355 (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355) ) (the inlet was only $48, and is only trivially more with some connectors / resistors / diodes / wires)
Would you be able to post more details on how you built the adapter, ie. what connectors / resistors / diodes / wires you used? Looking to do something similar.
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made my own j1772 with a used inlet from a smart car from EVWest ( http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355 (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=355) ) (the inlet was only $48, and is only trivially more with some connectors / resistors / diodes / wires)
Would you be able to post more details on how you built the adapter, ie. what connectors / resistors / diodes / wires you used? Looking to do something similar.
Or, more explicitly, is this a replacement option for the $400 part from Hollywood?
Cheers
--G
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Or, more explicitly, is this a replacement option for the $400 part from Hollywood?
You read my mind... I don't mind doing a bit of soldering to save $300+
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Aaron,
Can you explain what is involved in the vehicle authenticating itself by J1772. I'm not aware of anything in the J1772 standard that requires authentication including vehicle details.
Thanks,
David
My understanding is that the negotiation protocol (http://modularevpower.com/Charging%20Station/1772_2010.htm) looks like this:
1. J1772 plug inserted into inlet with latch depressed. EV provides 2.7 k ohm resistance on proximity pin and 2.74 k ohm resistance on pilot pin behind diode (EV ready). EV reads 3V on proximity pin.
2. J1772 plug latch released. EV reads 1.5V on proximity pin.
3. EVSE provides 1 kHz control pilot signal on pilot pin; duty cycle indicates maximum current available.
4. EV configures its onboard charger to limit maximum current and provides total 884 ohm resistance on pilot pin behind diode (EV ready; charge begin).
5. EVSE supplies power to AC pins and charging begins.
Schematic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#/media/File:J1772_signaling_circuit.gif)
More details (PDF p11-18) (https://open-evse.googlecode.com/files/J1772.pdf)
My guess is that passive J1772 inlets, including Zero's, only provide 884 ohm resistance on pilot pin. Some EVSEs may refuse to supply power on AC pins if they detect that the vehicle is in a "charge acceptance" state prior to proximity latch or the EVSE indicating maximum current available.
There are several adapters that will handle the control pilot signal. Note that they ignore the maximum current advertised by the J1772 EVSE, which can cause an overcurrent error (best case) or damage the connector / cable / EVSE (or cause a fire, worst case).
TucsonEV sells an inlet adapter (http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html) that has a manual switch for setting EV charging.
EVwest sells an AV2 module (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=107) that provides the proper resistance on both control pilot and proximity pins, and provides both normally open and normally closed relays that can be used to initiate charging. (instructions (http://evwest.com/support/avc2_instructions.pdf))
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TucsonEV sells an inlet adapter (http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html) that has a manual switch for setting EV charging.
Hmm, this is a tempting option vs building my own. I think I would go with the remote pilot box version for simplicity of mounting / packing.
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Would you be able to post more details on how you built the adapter, ie. what connectors / resistors / diodes / wires you used? Looking to do something similar.
This is before I cleaned it up and put it in a project-box that I can mount as a side-luggage-thing that I can use on long trips.
http://imgur.com/a/mWxYf (http://imgur.com/a/mWxYf)
I ended up not putting a switch in front of the onboard charger, as well, as I believe this will not work (need to open charging contactor?). The intention of the switches is that you can use them to manually configure the charging to whatever amperage the charger you find in the wild supports, without opening up the box and rewiring.
All the wires for the low voltage / low current J1772 stuff are some dinky gauge, all of the stuff that needs to push 10.5A is beefier wires.
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This is before I cleaned it up and put it in a project-box that I can mount as a side-luggage-thing that I can use on long trips.
Thanks clockfort. Looks a little over my head actually :)
Can anyone confirm that the TucsonEV (http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html) solution will work with the Zero onboard + DeltaQ or Elcon chargers?
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Hah, sorry. For the ~$350 price delta between Harlan's connector and my solution, you could probably find an electrical engineering / nerd friend to do it. (Might have to dig into the price delta a bit with some beers to convince said friend though)
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So, almost 2 months after deciding to go ahead I finally received the TucsonEV J1772 adapter with remote pilot box. I had emailed back and forth with the owner, Rush, who assured me it would work with the Zero and that other Zero owners were using it successfully.
I sent him payment via Paypal in early July and it was supposed to be sent to the hotel I was staying at in Colorado about 10 days later. I got to the hotel, no package :/ I tried emailing Rush a few times over the next few weeks, no reply. Finally I heard back from him, he had some medical issues but is feeling better now. He shipped it to my PO box in Niagara Falls, NY and I went to pick it up this morning. Unfortunately I had to pay $30 cdn tax/duty which I wouldn't have had to if bringing it home from CO (was out of Canada for a week), but oh well. Glad Rush is feeling better.
The unit looks very well built. I'm now thinking about ways to mount it permanently on the bike, maybe with a plate hanging from the rear area, underneath the luggage rack and tuck the cable under the seat?
I haven't been able to test it yet as it comes without a plug, so I guess my next stop will be Home Depot to get one. It will just be a single plug for now since I don't have an extra charger right now. I'm thinking about getting one in the future now that I've sold my BMW gas bike. The damn thing wasn't getting ridden since I brought the Zero and I couldn't justify the huge insurance cost ($1200/year) for one or two long road trips per year. I bought a much cheaper to purchase, insure and maintain Suzuki V-Strom for that purpose instead.
Not really related to the story, but I did toy with the idea of riding the Zero to Niagara Falls. It is about 180km round trip taking the freeway, probably longer via backroads. I decided I would be pushing my luck without any fast charging capability. I took the V-Strom instead, which is a dream on the freeway IMO. I needed to put some KMs on it anyway so I can get its 1000km service done before my week long trip to NYC in early October :)
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Found a 5-15R plug in my parts bin. Hooked it up to the J1772 adapter, plugged in the bike and EVSE, switched the pilot switch on, and prayed to Jebus. It works!
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Went for a bit of a ride this morning, just over an hour. Was at 55% when I got home.
I was curious whether the bike would charge any faster (with the standard onboard charger) at 240V vs my regular 120v wall outlet. The website for Zeros own adapter (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=122&zenid=j6gb3l5d5s7k6o79tm9snvj9a4) says it does not. Based on the data from the bike it does; peak charging watts using 240V is 1470 vs 1260. Amps 14 vs 12. Estimated time to full charge also was about 25% lower.
(http://i.imgur.com/oSA7t1s.jpg)
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Anybody live in south SF Bay Area that has a J1772 adapter (from Zero or homemade) that I could borrow to try charging my Zero using the L2 charger at work. If successful, I might build/buy my own. Send me a PM or reply here.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Anybody live in south SF Bay Area that has a J1772 adapter (from Zero or homemade) that I could borrow to try charging my Zero using the L2 charger at work. If successful, I might build/buy my own. Send me a PM or reply here.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm about to have one, in Oakland. I can bring it by for a test but wouldn't lend it for long. :) I'm hoping to use it for longer day trips. My travel needs in the area have change from a consistent commute to very low and very high.
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Thanks Brian. In reading my original message, I should clarify I'm in South Bay (ie. San Jose), not south SF. If you're planning to come down here some time, please let me know (will send you my contact info in a PM when I get to a computer). I'd just ask for a quick test on my charger at work (in Sunnyvale). Not really looking to borrow it for any length of time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks Brian. In reading my original message, I should clarify I'm in South Bay (ie. San Jose), not south SF. If you're planning to come down here some time, please let me know (will send you my contact info in a PM when I get to a computer). I'd just ask for a quick test on my charger at work (in Sunnyvale). Not really looking to borrow it for any length of time.
Yes, I think I somehow figured that out but it does make a range difference. I've sent a PM. Possibly I'll be able to do it this weekend and much more likely the next.