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Author Topic: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)  (Read 5543 times)

Hans2183

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My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« on: December 12, 2019, 04:00:56 AM »

Quickly my background: I started riding to filter traffic during my 110km (highway) commute with a 2005 BMW R1200RT that I bought second had with 70.000 km done, added another 70k. Replaced that with a BMW R1200 GS LC 2016 model bought new with now just below 70k of riding done. I had a Triumph Street Triple for fun (mostly weekends). This summer I traded that Triumph for a red SRF premium delivered to me in August. Started actually riding it daily in September. The RT was sold when I bought the GS. The GS I still keep for longer distance (travel).

I ordered that SRF after test riding it in June. It was more comfortable to ride than the Street Triple and the electric way of riding without clutch made it easier to handle and ride than the GS for daily commutes. Obviously the GS has more protection against weather and a more relaxed and upright position. So far I've only used the SRF for commutes and very short fun rides. With another newborn I just don't find the time to go out that much.

It did great for the first 6.000 km in all kind of weather. I love how easy filtering through traffic at low speed is with this bike. And even handling standing next to it (parking) it feels lighter than the GS. In theory it should weigh the same but I guess the GS has more height and therefor feels more tippy. I really like being back on 2x 17" wheels since that is so much better on tarmac which I ride most of the time. The GS isn't bad but you feel that the steering is lighter and it's all just less planted.

The GS has way more options for the same price, think of GPS, luggage, electronic suspension, ... And it's way more relaxed to sit on than the SRF. The SRF is a bit too sporty still for daily use but thanks to the less springy suspension (compared to the Street Triple) it's doable. One day I'll probably look into lowering the foot pegs.

Comparing it to the GS and the costs to keep that bike running (dealer maintained) and having an investment of 10k into the new bike I calculated it should take me 3 years or 90.000 km in distance to get that 10k investment back. That is with the money I safe from reduced maintenance cost and from cheaper electricity compared to gas.

Because of range and cold weather and wind on higher speeds in general I started riding slower which isn't a bad thing. It's safer to say the least. I'm a very cautious rider but on the highway I could go fast when it was empty. Not with this bike. The range hasn't really been a problem for me so far. I get around 120-130 km in distance on highways and 150 km or more on other road types.

I charge it almost always at home over night with a 220V adapter (wall socket). I also have a 3x16A cable with 2 type2 connectors to charge it on location. At work there is a charging station that can charge at full 5.7 kW for which my bike is the limit. It's probably an 11 or 22 kW station since these are the most common over here. I'm charged per kWh on that station and with the card I use for it I can use many charge stations all over the country. Most cost around 0,35 EUR / kWh. I couldn't find any free chargers so far. Unless you would count the ones in parking garage where you can charge for free but have to pay for the parking.

I had it serviced at around 1.000 km following instructions. I then also had the Zero specific rear luggage rack installed by the dealer so that I had more space for my backpack to go. I carry my clothes and a laptop with my in a backpack that I secure to the rear seat with rok straps. I paid for service, the hardware and some time to get it installed.

At around 3k my front brake light switch that triggers regen and brake light failed after a very wet ride. I informed my dealer and he ordered the part and a week later I could go by and he had it replaced in no time, free of charge.

At around 4k I had a second firmware update. The first one went fine and I never really noticed a difference. This one however resulted in the charging cable not being released after charging is done. The first morning I noticed that it took me almost an hour to figure out. In the end I learned that turning the bike on and off several times finally releases the cable. I informed my dealer and he confirmed Zero was aware of the issue and would have a fix soon. And indeed, two weeks later a new firmware update was available and now the cable released as soon as I turned the ignition key. All was working perfect again.

But then at little over 5k the real problems started. After a very wet rain the CEL or Check Engine Light turned on during a ride. I still had full power (as far as you can check that in the rain) and I could ride as long as I wanted (or at least until the battery would die). Luckily I didn't because once home it wouldn't let me charge the bike. Also at that point I couldn't ride the bike anymore. When I turned the key the battery and engine light wouldn't go out and there was no audible click and the killswitch wouldn't let me arm it to ride.

I imagined the rain was the issue here so I let the bike dry. It's stored in my garage but it was already cold (around 16 °C inside the garage) so it didn't really dry over night. So in the morning still no charging and I took the GS again. I hadn't used that bike for 3 months. I almost stalled it at the first stopping point since I forgot the clutch.

In the evening I used a hair dryer on the bike and after that I could suddenly charge and use it again. It still showed the CEL on the dash, even while riding. But the battery icon did go out, the click happened and I could simply arm it and go. Once at work it again failed to charge and arm once I arrived there. But in the evening, when it was time to go home it worked again.

I could use it for another week without issues. After a few rides the CEL no longer stayed on. Granted those were very nice weather days. I informed my dealer about these issues and he asked me to go by to have the logs send over to Zero. Since it worked again I explained I rather kept using it for now and return if the error would come back.

It was on the first heavy rain that the CEL turned on again. Also I was stranded at work that day with a bike that didn't want to charge nor arm. Even after a day of work it still refused to coöperate. So I asked my wife to come and get me.

The bike stayed at work for the weekend, also in a garage underneath the building. Dry, warm and protected by the guards of service. On monday I got to work with the van ready to push it in. The bike was already working again at that point but I didn't want to risk it anymore since I just couldn't rely on it in wet weather. I dropped it off at the dealer in the evening.



The next day he informed me he did some tests and replaced some parts but didn't get it working reliably so Zero Europe would come and pick it up to get it fixed. So for now I'm back on the GS, getting used to shifting gears again (it has a quickshifter but still) and keeping it upright.
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Crissa

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 10:48:59 AM »

Glad they're on to fixing it!  Too bad they didn't give you a loaner.

-Crissa
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Hans2183

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 02:24:16 PM »

Well to be honest I never asked. I still have the GS and I could bring it with the van so didn’t really need one. Also I imagine that would be done by the dealer and not zero directly since I dropped it off at the dealer myself.

I agree though that if they want to fix their reputation on reliability having a free recovery service including backup bikes would be a great plan. I got that for free for 5 years with the BMW, included for all bikes they sell new.
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Zelidar

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 07:04:22 PM »

Thank you very much for the detailed report Hans2183.

One would think that backed by an experience of 13 years building electric motorcycles as they often proudly say when advertising the SR/F, Zero should have the water problem under control by now. I guess that, of those 13 years, 11 have mainly been with customers riding in dry and warm Californian weather. The European breakthrough only came in 2018 for them. Nice to hear that they are taking your case seriously.
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Doug S

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 07:41:36 PM »

Hey, it rains here! I think it did just last month....
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nnelson65

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2019, 01:10:11 AM »

Thank you very much for the detailed report Hans2183.

One would think that backed by an experience of 13 years building electric motorcycles as they often proudly say when advertising the SR/F, Zero should have the water problem under control by now. I guess that, of those 13 years, 11 have mainly been with customers riding in dry and warm Californian weather. The European breakthrough only came in 2018 for them. Nice to hear that they are taking your case seriously.
???

I don't know what "dry and warm Californian weather" you're talking about...my bike was wet for about 3-4months straight last winter, and most of those mornings my bike logged ambient temperatures around ~5-10C.  I'm about 100km from Zero HC  :P
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GaryArt1

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2019, 01:25:18 AM »

My SRF was trouble free for 3 months (other than a useless cellular connections, OTA update process).  Then it died and I had to truck it home.  It has been in dealer almost a month now.  They think it is a failed BMS and need to replace it.  I got to talk with Zero at the Motorcycle show and told them I was not happy with a $20K bike that lasted 3 months.  They sounded surprised that I had such a  serious issue so early on but I am still waiting.  . 
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dittoalex

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 08:57:48 AM »

Thanks for posting.  Hopefully it's just issues due to it being the first year of a new model.  But for me, durability is most important and it looks like I'll be getting an Energica. 
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Crissa

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 04:17:10 PM »

I live next door to a guy who works at Zero as a mechanic.  And we haven't dried out in three weeks now.  We tend to get all our rain in half the year here in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

But new models have new suppliers and new stresses on seals and break in new ways.

-Crissa

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Zelidar

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2019, 04:33:33 PM »

I have lived over a year in Los Angeles back in 1987. I know that the climate is changing but I am pretty sure I am still getting more rain today in Switzerland than in California. Nonetheless with the SR/F, we're dealing with a V1.0 product and those usually come along with some inconveniences.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/148118~557/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-at-Zurich-Airport-and-San-Francisco
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 05:04:56 PM by Zelidar »
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Hans2183

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2019, 05:43:38 PM »

Have to say I still love that bike and hopefully I get it back quick. Nothing wrong with the BMW but if you're used to the smoothness of an electric bike even a smoothly, well maintained bike feels like something is wrong.

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Crissa

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2019, 07:37:10 AM »

I have lived over a year in Los Angeles back in 1987.
You do know that Los Angeles is 500km south in a completely different climactic zone with different ocean temperatures, right?
And the average rain is stronger in Zurich than here, sure.  We have a very mild climate - but the average temp and rainfall in SF is much mediated from here in the mountains because, well, mountains.  https://www.slvwd.com/_boulder.htm

-Crissa
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heroto

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 11:36:09 AM »

Good thread.
OP had a list of observations. The FIRST negative thing mentioned: poster found the SR/F peg position to be uncomfortable. Not a fatal flaw for most. That said, search other threads about the SR/F on this site and others. People really like this moto, but a lot, maybe a majority find the sport bike stock peg position with no option to modify is a fail.
Yo Zero: Who can afford to buy your o/w excellent SR/F? How many well heeled knee draggers are there? Some trust funders perhaps. More of us would be grateful for a more upright riding position.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 07:55:38 AM by heroto »
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Crissa

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2019, 12:15:47 AM »

The SR/F costs about as much as the average used car in the United States.  And about two-thirds what a Livewire does.

Additionally, it gets about six times the MPGe than comparable petrol vehicles.

So is it really so expensive?

-Crissa
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MVetter

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Re: My Zero SRF experience with 6.500 km since September (so far)
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2019, 02:54:58 AM »

The SR/F costs about as much as the average used car in the United States.  And about two-thirds what a Livewire does.

Additionally, it gets about six times the MPGe than comparable petrol vehicles.

So is it really so expensive?

If you *just* look at sticker price as compared to other new gas bikes on the market, then yes it is. Also consider that the vast majority of people buy and ride motorcycles as a luxury item and put 3000 miles or fewer on them annually. Then yeah, by comparison, the SR/F is expensive.
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