ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: jpaulus on August 28, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
-
Does anyone know if the Givi Monokey Rack Kit is a standard size that can be purchased for less than the $400 (with markup) that Zero is asking? I already have the cases. Thanks.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=180 (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=180)
-
The rack itself is (like all racks) designed for a specific motorcycle model, which in this case is the 2013 Zero S and DS family. The case mounting points are Monokey, which means any Givi Monokey cases will fit the rack. The E-21s are good, but you can also fit larger cases. I actually have an adapter kit for Bag Connection's Aero cases, but the adapter kit works with any Monokey rack.
-
I have a side rack kit and the rack itself must be special design for Zero because of all the mounting points at the bike. Check out that you get all parts before start installing. Otherwise you get halfway and have to wait for parts. Turn extension cable and 2x M6 25 were missing in the package.
-
jpaulus,
The Side Case Rack Kit (10-05960) was custom designed by one of our engineers specifically for the 2013 Zero S and Zero DS. It does have the standard Monokey hardware so you can use your own Monokey side cases. Although we haven't tried them all at this point and you want to be careful you don't overload the motorcycle.
The Top Box Rack Kit (10-06921) was also custom designed for the 2013 Zero S and Zero DS. In this case, you'd have to add your own universal adapter for use with Givi top boxes. They have both a Monolock version that comes with the Top Case we offer or a Monokey version. Again, make sure you add a load you feel comfortable having behind you.
Zero.DS.Sweden - Sorry about that. PM me if you still don't have everything. Or post a picture if you've got it all installed now.
Regards,
aaronzeromoto
-
Thanks Aaron, that explains everything except for the $400 price point for the rack alone. ;)
-
Thanks Aaron, that explains everything except for the $400 price point for the rack alone. ;)
I think that's pretty easy to justify: They're operating at small scale. Givi racks don't come that much cheaper in general, anyway.
-
A quick google search shows many similar racks at less than half that price and none approaching $400. Scale doesn't explain it if all such racks are custom.
-
I agree that price is high at first look. I bougt top mounting from Zero and a separate Givi monolock box. You will need side rack mounting original and the addition price for the 2x side cases is OK. I am very satisfied with the topbox. Enough space for 2x quick chargers.
-
Aaron - thanks but I think it will work out. Do you have any status on when the CHAdeMON is deliverable?
-
BrianTRice explains the issue on price best. Of course, I will continue to work to get it reduced.
ZeroDSSweden - We have CHAdeMO. However, we've found issues in compatibility between CHAdeMO charging stations. And our ability to test compatibility throughout Europe has been limited. Given the cost and these challenges, we are trying to make sure customers are willing to deal with these complexities. Have your local dealer reach out to me via our country managers in Europe if you are still interested and want to know more. If you want to start another thread on CHAdeMO in Europe, I'd love some more details on which stations you look to use most often so we can prioritize our outreach to these vendors.
Thanks,
aaronzeromoto
-
Aaron, what's the margin over cost on the racks?
A value too high is simply another excuse for potential customers to exclude the Zero as a commuter option along with the high list price (and yes I know the long term savings in operation but new customers don't often think that way.)
-
Hi jpaulus,
Posting our margins and our dealer's margins is something I just can't do. But you already knew I couldn't. This wouldn't include the development and custom tooling costs anyway. The side rack kits also include Givi Monokey mounting hardware. I asked Givi. They wouldn't share their margins with me either. :(
I can say that all our accessories are really produced to help sell more motorcycles and not a profit center for us a this point. I can also tell you that I am out of stock on these side rack kits and working hard to get more.
So I feel your pain and will continue to do what I can to get those prices down.
-
Aaron, so if all similar racks are custom then why are the Zero versions so much more than others? Number ordered?
-
I still think BrianTRice had the best answer. And I am not sure which racks you are comparing.
I see the Wolfman Side Racks for BMW on Revzilla for MSRP $215, and for the KTM 690 for MSRP $289.99. Moose Racing's Expedition Kit (which has a top rack integrated) is $409. Givi advertises their Side Case Mounting Hardware for $234. All of these I believe are more generic design with some specific elements for selected motorcycles.
I'll keep trying. Your feedback certainly is appreciated.
-
I'm comparing random hits from Google Shopping: https://www.google.com/search?q=givi+monokey+side+racks&um=1&client=safari&rls=en&hl=en&tbm=shop&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=3RQhUvHsNqbqiQLu34CgBA&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAw&biw=1666&bih=1268 (https://www.google.com/search?q=givi+monokey+side+racks&um=1&client=safari&rls=en&hl=en&tbm=shop&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=3RQhUvHsNqbqiQLu34CgBA&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAw&biw=1666&bih=1268)
Lots of similar style below $200.
-
Lowering the price of zero accessories to match the market , would increase sales and profits, should not be a case of monopoly for profit. We already paying premium price for the bike.
You can fleece a sheep many times, but only skin it once.
Better to have many sales of smaller profit margin , than kill sales because price to high.
Customers want to pay fair price, not be ripped off.
-
I have been a BMW owner for almost 30 years and I have become immune to high BMW-brand accessory prices. :o BMW has a much larger accessory market than Zero (by orders of magnitude) and their buying power hasn't done much, if anything, to lower their motorcycle accessory prices compared with the after-market. ::)
-
I would just bypass all the cost issues and buy aftermarket if possible more compatibly with the existing stuff out there anyway. Anyone know if the wingrack 2 will fit on the 2013 models?? Here is the post for the 2012 models http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2155.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2155.0)
-
I started that Wingrack thread and yes they do fit on the 2013s although not with a passenger. I used long bolts straight out from the frame. Works fine other than losing passenger potential.
The overpriced Zero option makes me more likely to stay with this setup.
-
And while you are thinking about this, remember there are other creative ways....2 backpacks for example. One on your back as usual and a second one on your front. I saw this idea on Modern Vespa, tried it and it works great. Of course on the Vespa you have under seat, tail, a grocery hook and all that floor space, plus your back and front.
-
@jpaulus
I guess I can see that since the OEM ones are way back there. Wonder if there is a DIY idea that will allow the wingrack to go further back? Can I see pictures of or current setup to get an idea of what could be done. ;D
-
I used the universal mounting kit to fit the Wingracks on the 2013 S, attaching them straight out from the frame with spacers (using automotive grade bolts) and the kit bars connecting to where the passenger pedals connect. Not ideal but a much more reasonable solution than the $400 that Zero is asking.
[Aside to Zero: I would rather be putting money in your pockets and supporting the brand but at that price you are asking too much and people will go elsewhere. I find the Zero to be an awesome, year-round commuting solution using hard cases and not only do you not actively market the bike as such, you are discouraging it by this price gouging on hard case racks. Again, I wish it were otherwise but you will see us find other alternatives until you listen to the market.]
-
I've no idea why those pics posted upside down...
-
Are you from Down Under? ;D
-
I wouldn't be so hard on Zero but expressing yourself is good. Thinking about a $400 mount without the cases does suck though
Jpaulus is the wingrack only held on in one place by bolts and other than that by the rod for the universal fitting kit? Also will the top rack fit? Thanks
-
I think it is to Zero's own benefit to encourage commuter use of their vehicles because their 'limited' range is ideal for that purpose. And they simply need to be made aware of how we as consumers react to their pricing structure; it's just information for them to consider.
It is the main (high-grade) bolt holding it up with the bar bolt for support. It seems very stable and works for my groceries. I don't have a top case so I've no idea how that works.
-
If you are looking for a less expensive saddlebag luggage system, there are plenty of over-the-saddle soft and semi-soft luggage saddlebag systems on the market. They are relatively cheap, lightweight, can be switched from bike to bike, have decent volume, most are well made and will last for many years before starting to fail. If you are concerned about security, most can be just picked up off the saddle and carried with you. I am currently using a fits-all Chase Harper rigid fabric saddlebag set that I bought years ago for around $100 and it works perfectly on my Zero. The zippers can even be locked with a small cheap keyed lock. I note that the new Ducati Multistrada "touring" bike comes from the factory with very similar saddlebags.
-
I think it is to Zero's own benefit to encourage commuter use of their vehicles because their 'limited' range is ideal for that purpose. And they simply need to be made aware of how we as consumers react to their pricing structure; it's just information for them to consider.
It is the main (high-grade) bolt holding it up with the bar bolt for support. It seems very stable and works for my groceries. I don't have a top case so I've no idea how that works.
Here is a picture of the Givi wingrack from their canada site that is mounted a lot further back.
I think if we can get the mounting instruction for the OEM Givi we can get an idea of how to mount the wingrack further back and not sacrifice the passenger capability ;D
-
I'm considering purchasing a 2013 DS. I already have a Givi trunk (monokey, not monolock). Will it work with the expensive Zero TOP BOX RACK KIT? The webpage for the kit says it is for Monolock. My trunk is monokey (Givi E52 Maxia Monokey).
Also, I have brake lights and turn signals in my E52 (AddMoreLighting). Can I easily hook these up myself?
-
I'm considering purchasing a 2013 DS. I already have a Givi trunk (monokey, not monolock). Will it work with the expensive Zero TOP BOX RACK KIT? The webpage for the kit says it is for Monolock. My trunk is monokey (Givi E52 Maxia Monokey).
evdjerome,
The Monokey system requires the Universal Mounting Plate from Givi (E250)
http://www.giviusa.com/givi-products/mounting-hardware/universal-mounting/e250-adapter-plate-universal-detail (http://www.giviusa.com/givi-products/mounting-hardware/universal-mounting/e250-adapter-plate-universal-detail)
While I have used the rack kit with this mounting plate and the Trekker 33L case, I have not used the 52L case you mention above. Since the case that comes with our Zero Case by Givi and Rack kit is limited to 6.6 lbs and the case you mentioned allows for 22 lbs, I would certainly be careful.
Also, I have brake lights and turn signals in my E52 (AddMoreLighting). Can I easily hook these up myself?
I am sure this is possible, but not sure how you define easy. The 2013 DS does not have a ready made socket for this specific connection. And I don't see any electrical specs for the current draw on these lights. I imagine you could connect a Sumitomo accessory pigtail (P/N 40-06396) from our accessory port and run a wire back to the connector for these lights.
Regards,
aaronzeromoto
-
So a couple of months ago I used even more parts from my existing universal mount kit along with my wingracks and was able to set the Givi bags further back and down in order to accommodate a passenger. It's been incredibly stable and saved lots of money and required just a single threaded post in the back to connect the racks together. Just fyi.
-
Nice mod jpaulus. Good job
-
Nice job fitting the wing racks JPaulus.
I rode a 2012 DS with the wing rack setup and it worked well except for the passenger scenario.
Personally, i don't find it surprising that a Zero custom engineered solution sold through the dealer network, costs 2X of a commodity solution that is pushed through a volume warehouse.
If i had a 13-14 DS i would just save my pennies for a few months and then pony up for the Zero racks from my local dealer. Without a good local dealer I would never have jumped into a Zero as there is too much risk in owning something new without someone i can trust to take care of any technical issues that might happen so if they make a few bucks on high quality accessories that makes sense to me. I always buy tires from my local dealer even though i could save a few bucks ordering them on the net but i personally see a lot of value in supporting the local shop and people.
I think that being a Zero dealer already has less margin than other motorcycle brands and the service business is probably almost non existent as Zeros require very little in the way of service so they probably do try to build some reasonable margin into accessories to help incent bike shops to carry the Zero brand. Pure conjecture on my part.
-
Can anyone supply the internal dimensions of the side and back boxes?
-
I have a GIVI E21 Box but the shape is curved therefore it is not really easy to measure.
Do you have a special Object to fit in side. Maybe I can check this for you.
-
A small briefcase or laptop case... say 4 x 10 x 14 inches...would that fit easily?
-
I have to switch between cm and inches, I give both because I am not sure if it is correct to write n.n
4 x 10 x 14 inches are 10,2 x 25,4 x 35,6 cm I have a shoe carton with 4.72 x 9.45 x 13.78 inches / 12 x 24 x 35 cm.
I took some photos unfortunately it will not fit easily as you can see it will not slide to the bottom, my box is a bit wider but also lower and I can't close the lid.
I have a distance to the bottom of ~4 inches and it will protrude 2 inches at the top.
If you have a soft case it maybe works but I wouldn't "press" my laptop in the box on the other hand it will not bounce in the box :-\
Sorry your dimensions are at the limits so it would be best to have a box to test it!
-
Thanks!
-
I'm considering purchasing a 2013 DS. I already have a Givi trunk (monokey, not monolock). Will it work with the expensive Zero TOP BOX RACK KIT? The webpage for the kit says it is for Monolock. My trunk is monokey (Givi E52 Maxia Monokey).
Also, I have brake lights and turn signals in my E52 (AddMoreLighting). Can I easily hook these up myself?
I have the same top box that you do, mounted on a 2013 Honda CB500X. I plan on buying a Zero DS someday, so I would also like to know if you can use the top box kit for the Zero. If you find out, please let me know!