ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: quixotic on September 27, 2017, 10:28:27 AM
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so. The 110 voltage in the garage has never caused a problem. Normally, the cord gets a bit warm, but never this. The plug's dust cover on the bike is always used, and the garage is not especially dusty. Should I be cleaning the female end of the cord with a pipe cleaner and rubbing alcohol occasionally?
I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so. The 110 voltage in the garage has never caused a problem. Normally, the cord gets a bit warm, but never this. The plug's dust cover on the bike is always used, and the garage is not especially dusty. Should I be cleaning the female end of the cord with a pipe cleaner and rubbing alcohol occasionally?
I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
Don't unplug from the bike first.... especially while charging. You must unplug from the wall first and then unplug from the bike. Unplugging from the bike first causes a spark and over time will melt the plug and cause some residue to be left on the charge port pins. That increases resistance which then makes the problem worse.
At this point you cannot just replace the cord because the pins are covered in residue. A new cord will look like your current cord in no time unless you clean the pins on the bikes charge port first.
I did the same thing on my 2014 Zero S for over a year and had the same problem. I had to use a Dremel to clean the pins and then replaced the cord and everything was fine. Now I ALWAYS unplug from the wall first even if charging is stopped.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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How does the socket on the bike look? When you get the new cord, you can plug it in and immediately check the charging current with the app. It shouldn't get too hot in the few minutes it will take to make sure it's charging correctly. Be sure to plug in at the bike first and then at the wall. Let the bike fully charge before unplugging, These practices prevent arcing at the bike socket and at the wall, respectively.
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Adding my experiences that heat from the power cord transfers very well into the socket connection, and this is only more intense if the connection is dirty or less than ideal. Those plastics on the connector ends are not rated for such heat.
It's a widely known problem. Be careful. I lobbed on dielectric grease to clean electrical connectors between a right-angle C13 cord semi-permanently fixed to the receptacle on my Zero DSR and it still melted to crap.
As for where to find replacements, I'll keep buying the "3ft 14AWG Right Angle Power Cord #7683" from Monoprice when mine melts, which it is want to do from time to time.
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Also if you happen to have 220V in your garage use that to reduce the amperage.
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I use a switched wall socket.
My procedure is as follows : starting charge
Ensure socket is switched off
Plug in cord to bike
Turn on the wall socket
Ending charge.
Switch off socket
Unplug cord.
As such I have never had a spark event at the bike, OR the wall socket, and I've completed years of charging without incident.
It also helps that UK domestic power is 240v as well.
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Switched sockets, so sad that they never took off outside the UK... And of course you lot have the best plug design!
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Yes, the UK plugs are robust.... and bulky!
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Wow! thanks for the excellent info, everyone. From now on, I'll certainly plug and unplug from the wall socket last/first. And I'll have a closer look at the male pins on the bike to do a cleaning.
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Wow! thanks for the excellent info, everyone. From now on, I'll certainly plug and unplug from the wall socket last/first. And I'll have a closer look at the male pins on the bike to do a cleaning.
Or you can wait until you're 100% charged and the current drops to almost nothing. But right at 100% indicated, you're not quite at 100%. It has to be after the contactor opens. One way you can tell the contactor is open (if you're not there to hear it) is if you have the bike at 100% and you have no BlueTooth communications with the bike when it's still plugged in. If Bike cannot be found, it proves contactor is open and then it doesn't matter how you unplug the bike.
The stopping of the charging light flashing is NOT an indicator that the contactor is open.
Or just leave the bike plugged in for 15 minutes or longer after you reach 100% SOC. That's what I usually do. Cord should feel cool by then. Then unplug anyway you wish.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If I used a 6 foot, 14 AWG cord attached to a 10 foot, 14 AWG cord (the latter plugged into the wall), would I be fairly safe if I unplugged first from between the two cords, instead of at the wall socket? (the latter being slightly more difficult to access). Related to that, is it the distance from the bike that determines the amount of spark that results from unplugging?
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Yes you can disconnect the two instead of at the wall. It's not about distance to the bike or wall. For convenience, I used to use a 25ft extension cord and plugged in a very short 1ft c13 to 5-15 cable. I would disconnect the short 1ft cable from extension cord then unplug from bike. Now I have an outlet right next to where I park my bike so I just unplug from wall then bike.
You will still get arcing when you unplug from the wall first if the bike is charging when you unplug. The issue is the c13 end of the plug is being pulled out of a confined space that is already warm from charging. Add the arcing and that plug just melts and then works it's way onto the pins in the charge port and as it builds up increases resistance which makes things get even hotter. It can take a while for it build up but eventually the result is what happened to your plug.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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If I used a 6 foot, 14 AWG cord attached to a 10 foot, 14 AWG cord (the latter plugged into the wall), would I be fairly safe if I unplugged first from between the two cords, instead of at the wall socket? (the latter being slightly more difficult to access). Related to that, is it the distance from the bike that determines the amount of spark that results from unplugging?
If anything, a shorter, thicker and better AC cord would cause the biggest spark when you disconnect because then the current would be higher, because the resitance is lower, making the voltage higher under load. IOW, the better the cord, the more of a spark. So it's the better cord will have the largest spark when you disconnect under load. But that doesn't mean use a cheap cord. You want the cord to be thick enough so it doesn't get very warm during the heavy charging. Longer (and thinner) AC cords have more resistance and higher voltage drops. That will cause the wasted power to turn into heat (AC cord gets hot--cheaper cords, mean a more heated AC cord).
Bottom line is to always use the shortest and thickest AC cord possible.
If the cord is going to be extra long, you want it to be extra thick to help reduce the voltage drop (and heat in the AC cord). That's different than the spark when disconnecting under load.
I really think the very best way of all is wait until all the charging has stopped, as I mentioned in my previous post. That way, it's easy on everything when you disconnect. Then it's easy on the cords, the outlets, the switches and then it doesn't matter how you disconnect.
But if you must disconnect while charging, I would disconnect at the bike last, as everything else is a lot cheaper and easier to deal with than the bike having a problem at the charging connector caused by the heat or sparks.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The best thing would be to wire a switch at your AC outlet. The switches are designed to dampen the arcing. I now wish I'd done this when I had my outside outlet installed. But then I thought my bike was going to have a Charge Tank when I ordered it.
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Has anyone tried a simple power strip with an on off switch? Nothing else plugged into it of course.
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Has anyone tried a simple power strip with an on off switch? Nothing else plugged into it of course.
An industrial power strip would work if it's rated for switching 15A. General purpose household power strips might melt or catch fire.
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Has anyone tried a simple power strip with an on off switch? Nothing else plugged into it of course.
Yes. The power strip I used has a has a circuit breaker as well as an on/off switch. The circuit breaker tripped after about two hours of charging, so I removed the power strip. The bike charging was the only load on the power strip. But I think this is a cheap HFT power strip.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Switched sockets, so sad that they never took off outside the UK... And of course you lot have the best plug design!
You don't have switched plug sockets...? :o
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Switched sockets, so sad that they never took off outside the UK... And of course you lot have the best plug design!
You don't have switched plug sockets...? :o
Yes, but it's inside the house in the living room. I haven't been able to convince my wife to let me bring the bike inside so I can work on it in the air conditioning.
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> I lobbed on dielectric grease to clean electrical connectors between a right-angle C13 cord semi-permanently fixed to the receptacle on my Zero DSR and it still melted to crap.
Dielectric grease does *not* clean contacts. You need electrical contact cleaner for that. Dielectric grease prevents water ingress and further corrosion from that source but it doesn't clean up any resistance-inducing material or corrosion that is already present.
> As for where to find replacements, I'll keep buying the "3ft 14AWG Right Angle Power Cord #7683" from Monoprice when mine melts, which it is want to do from time to time.
Those are good. 14awg is good, or 12awg to be even safer. If you have access to 220vac, it halves the amps so thinner capable would be ok.
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Dielectric grease does *not* clean contacts. You need electrical contact cleaner for that. Dielectric grease prevents water ingress and further corrosion from that source but it doesn't clean up any resistance-inducing material or corrosion that is already present.
You really need to be a bit careful with that stuff. It's great for keeping water out, but it's non-conductive, so it actually insulates, and it's fairly tenacious, so if you get it on the contacts themselves, you can easily create a WORSE contact than you had before. Since it's silicone, it can be very difficult to completely remove, too. Apply it only to the mechanical sealing edge of the connector (for the Anderson connectors, the back side of each shell), and be careful not to get it too close to the contacts, keeping in mind that it will squeeze out a fair bit when the connector is mated. Look at the way the connector shells go together, and only apply the grease where it's needed to keep water out. It's our best friend in terms of sealing the connector body, but you don't want to just fill up the connector with it. Properly designed contacts should scrub each other clean as they're slid together, but why ask for trouble?
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Thanks, Doug. Really good information to get out there.
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When I visited the factory and saw the Zero staff assembling the bikes they really slobbered that stuff all over everything that had a connection or a crack that water might enter.
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I always stuffed it into the sparkplug boots of my ICE vehicles. Never a problem. Likewise many auto manufacturers fill the external light sockets with grease. If the contacts have a good tight mechanical connection they'll cut through the grease and displace it.
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Yes, but it's inside the house in the living room. I haven't been able to convince my wife to let me bring the bike inside so I can work on it in the air conditioning.
It's very easy to add a 15 amp switch. These are rated at 15 amps (https://www.harborfreight.com/indoor-wireless-remote-system-3-pc-62575.html)and you can turn it off and on remotely.
Here is the manual. (http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/62000-62999/62575.pdf)
-Don- Reno, NV
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If the replacement of the cord turns out not to be the solution and the pole is keeping on melting on new cords, it might be a bad crimped AMP connection on the back of the socket like in my scenario:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
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If the replacement of the cord turns out not to be the solution and the pole is keeping on melting on new cords, it might be a bad crimped AMP connection on the back of the socket like in my scenario:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
Is there any way to tell for sure? (I just had another cord melt). Just like the first time, it only melted around one of the poles. Guess I'll take the bike socket out and have a look at the backside. If so, are those terminals from the bike always hot? Or can I take a soldering gun to it without worrying about shocking myself?
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You can check if the hot pole is clean or not. If its clean and still getting hot, it could be the AMP connection on the back. In my case I could see that easily; the heatshrink wich covers the AMP connections on the back was melted.
There should be no power on the poles when the bike is disconnected/unplugged from the mains. So it should be fine to work on.
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You can check if the hot pole is clean or not. If its clean and still getting hot, it could be the AMP connection on the back. In my case I could see that easily; the heatshrink wich covers the AMP connections on the back was melted.
There should be no power on the poles when the bike is disconnected/unplugged from the mains. So it should be fine to work on.
I thought it was clean. I just used a small file and some rubbing alcohol. Guess I'll know more when I look around back. Thanks.
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You can test it with a multimeter set to resistance.
Resistance should be low. High resistance will prevent current from flowing, and medium resistance will generate heat, like we learned in physics P=I*R^2.
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You can test it with a multimeter set to resistance.
Resistance should be low. High resistance will prevent current from flowing, and medium resistance will generate heat, like we learned in physics P=I*R^2.
Perfect! I'll try that. Thanks!
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You can check if the hot pole is clean or not. If its clean and still getting hot, it could be the AMP connection on the back. In my case I could see that easily; the heatshrink wich covers the AMP connections on the back was melted.
There should be no power on the poles when the bike is disconnected/unplugged from the mains. So it should be fine to work on.
I assume the hot pole is the top one (?). I did a bit more scraping today with a small file, but maybe I need to get some steel wool into the mix.
Maybe my AMP connection is OK. I had a closer look at the heat shrink covering it, and it seemed to be in perfect condition. In any case, the little bolts holding it on are quite difficult to get at. I got the top one out, but the bottom one will require either a very short screwdriver (2.5" or less) or a 1/4" socket drive, neither of which I had today. If I do end up getting them both out, I think I'll see if I can replace them with a couple of hex bolts (it seems to be a M3-0.5 metric thread).
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Looking at your burned plug it should be the top pole indeed. Don't scrape/file too much material away.. Then the contact pressure lowers and that isn't good too. If this all isn't helping, just replace the chassis part of the power inlet. It's no official Zero part but just an 2 dollar piece wich is being customised by Zero.
The part is actually this unit or similar:
http://tinkersphere.com/power/962-male-power-connector-iec-320-c13-c14.html
(try to get one without solderholes in the contacts..)
Put carefully new heatshrink back, so it is closed and kind of water/dust proof..
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I notice that the conductors within the female plug seem to be quite recessed. There is what looks and feels like a teflon shield in the upper part of the holes (I had a peek with a dissecting microscope). And even they are somewhat hidden from view. So perhaps in the past, I may have occasionally not fully plugged the cord into the bike, with the result of some arcing (?)
In any event, a new cord arrived, and so at a 90% charge, I plugged her in fully, taking careful note for the future as to where certain markings were on the plug, relative to the bike's receptacle. It didn't take long to get fully charged, but at least during that time, I noticed no heat build-up, either at the cord ends, or on the back of the receptacle, where the heat shrink cover is. So far, so good.
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That's a great observation!
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so.
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I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
Unless I'm missing something, this plug/socket is only rated for 10 amps!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 (see c13 in the table)
That would explain why you WILL NOT find a 12awg version of this cord configuration.
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so.
.................
I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
Unless I'm missing something, this plug/socket is only rated for 10 amps!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 (see c13 in the table)
That would explain why you WILL NOT find a 12awg version of this cord configuration.
15a if you read the north america section.
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so.
.................
I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
Unless I'm missing something, this plug/socket is only rated for 10 amps!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 (see c13 in the table)
That would explain why you WILL NOT find a 12awg version of this cord configuration.
I suspect that somewhere along the way, I was getting wire gauge mixed up with amperage. So please disregard any pseudo-knowledge on the subject of electricity coming from my pen. ::)
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luckily, my wife pestered me about a weird smell in the garage. Any thoughts on what might be the cause? It is the 15 amp cord supplied by Zero, which has been working just fine for the last 18 months or so.
.................
I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere), but now I'm really nervous about plugging the bike in.
Unless I'm missing something, this plug/socket is only rated for 10 amps!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 (see c13 in the table)
That would explain why you WILL NOT find a 12awg version of this cord configuration.
15a if you read the north america section.
Guess that's the part I missed :P
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I've ordered another 15 amp cord from amazon (couldn't find a 12 amp one anywhere),
What you could do is to use a 12awg cord & cut the female end off & connect IEC c13 rewirerable plug to it or just pick up one of these.....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AJM27A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AJM27A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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> > That would explain why you WILL NOT find a 12awg version of this cord configuration.
> 15a if you read the north america section.
Please let's not be confusing AWG (wire gauge) with A (amps).
1300 watts will try to be pulled. If your voltage is low, that's more amps, P=IV. If your voltage is high, that's fewer amps. What's the voltage at your home? Mine's 117V, 118V when the sun is out. If your home voltage is low, maybe there's thin wire or bad connection from your breakers to your outlet.
Resistance is the only source of heat, and P=IV, P=I^2 R, more amps is more power generating heat, so if your home voltage is low, more amps are going through your cable, more heat. Thin cables have more resistance, more heat. That's why you want 12 AWG cable, for North America, that's thick enough to generate little heat at our lower voltages.
Is there resistance at your outlet? Make sure the contacts are shiny and clean, use electronics spray cleaner, work the plug in and out to make sure the contact has low resistance.
Is there resistance at your inlet? Make sure the contacts are shiny and clean, use electronics spray cleaner, work the plug in and out to make sure the contact has low resistance.
Don't confuse dielectric grease with contact cleaner! Dielectric grease keeps exposed surfaces from corroding, it does *not* ensure good electrical contact, indeed it is nonconductive.
Don't file the contacts! The surface may be plated with tin or gold or silver, you don't want to remove that!
After you plug in, check for heat. Check both the wall outlet end and the motorcycle end. If heat is coming from inside the motorcycle end, suspect faulty crimps, check with Zero customer support. There were a few like that.
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The voltage and resistance will determine the current and power. I = V / R, P = V^2 / R. Voltage is equivalent to pressure. Current is equivalent to flow. The power loss in the cable with connectors is I^2 * Rcable.
For a simple resistive load, sure, V = I * R. But a switching power supply (like all modern chargers) is anything but a simple load. Togo's right, a 1300W charger will draw less current from a higher voltage; let's say it draws 12 amps from 110VAC, but it will deliver the same 1300 watts to the battery by drawing only 6 amps from 220VAC. In fact, to keep current draw and heating down, it's recommended to run the charger from 220. Try it yourself at home, it works. Smaller changes in voltage (a house with 110VAC on the high side vs. a house with 110VAC on the low side) results in smaller changes in current, but it still applies -- higher voltage, lower current.
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And my caution is that if your "110" outlet is only delivering
100 volts or less, due to poor wiring or bad connections or
whatever, your 1300 watt charger is going to draw *more
amps* and produce more heat to get the same 1300 watts,
i.e. more danger.
Measure the voltage.
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or just pick up one of these.....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AJM27A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AJM27A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
After posting this I had the opertunity to use mine & after several hours I found it to be alarmingly hot.
Best to not trust one for regular use but I'll still leave it on the bike for a backup/emergency option.
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Which end? Or the whole cable?
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Which end? Or the whole cable?
My employer allows me to charge at work & I can get home with 60%+ left in the battery so only charge at home to insure I'm above the alleged 60% minimum battery level.
At work I use a 6' 14awg Nema 5-15 IEC 60320 C13 & find it gets hot at both ends.
At home I use the cord that came with the (used) bike. It's 10' 14awg.
The last time I used it I noticed that the plug was showing heat damage so I don't stoped using it until I could replace the plug.
I needed to top off so I thought it would be a good time to use the stubby adapter. I used a 50' 12awg cord as it was handy. After several hrs I noticed that the adapter was alarmingly hot.
Both ends were quite warm but the rest of the cord was not appreciably warm.
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If the ends are getting warm, you have poor contact (high resistance) at the ends.
Clean the contacts.
If you are running low voltage, to keep constant watts, your amps will go up, which is bad.
Measure the voltage.
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I notice that the conductors within the female plug seem to be quite recessed. There is what looks and feels like a teflon shield in the upper part of the holes (I had a peek with a dissecting microscope). And even they are somewhat hidden from view. So perhaps in the past, I may have occasionally not fully plugged the cord into the bike, with the result of some arcing (?)
In any event, a new cord arrived, and so at a 90% charge, I plugged her in fully, taking careful note for the future as to where certain markings were on the plug, relative to the bike's receptacle. It didn't take long to get fully charged, but at least during that time, I noticed no heat build-up, either at the cord ends, or on the back of the receptacle, where the heat shrink cover is. So far, so good.
Well, I finally had a chance to do a full charge, from 50% to 100% (I don't do a lot of motorcycle commuting in Alberta in October). Cord and plug ends were mildly warm, but nothing hot or melting. So I suspect, as I hypothesized above, that maybe I just wasn't being very careful when plugging the cord into the bike. All's well that ends well.
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Glad to hear it! Don't burn anything down!
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I try to use 220 v whenever possible, never an issue with heat on cord.
I have the standard cord from Zero and a y cord of similar length that I
use. The Original cord seems to get warmer to touch than the aftermarket
one. Both seem to be 14 gauge. The aftermarket cable seems to be thinner
than the Stock cable. Strange that it consistently feels cooler
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Well, I toasted another cord. A contractor was cutting tile in the garage, so I'm wondering if the dust might've got into the female plug end. Anyway I've got another new cord and will cross my fingers.
Wondering if it would make sense to apply a bit of dielectric grease to the contacts as a preventative measure?
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Your issue is your outlet. Replace it with a hospital grade and your melting problem will go away. The HG outlets are less than $10.
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I'd agree with changing the outlet, not that a cheap outlet shouldn't be able to handle 12 amps (they're rated for 15 continuously), but you might have some corrosion on the internal contacts. As dukecola suggests, you might as well replace it with a quality unit while you're at it.
But even more likely than corrosion is just plain loose contacts. Outlets and plugs are designed to provide a fair amount of tension between the contacting parts, to ensure good contact and help scrub things clean when you plug and unplug, but the contacts in an older outlet have often lost a lot of their tension and don't provide a nice low-resistance connection. A new outlet will solve that, but just in case, bend the prongs of the new cable inward just a tad. Too much bend and you won't be able to plug it in, but a small amount of bend can help put some tension on the contacts in an older outlet. If the cable plugs in and out too easily, you've probably got loose contacts and are liable to build up some heat.
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So if a 12 AWG power cord is not available in the C13 - Nema5-15P configuration, then what is a poor Zero owner to do? I guess you could put these two parts together and make your own cord as suggested in an earlier post, but that gets rather expensive. There are cheaper C13 plug ends, but this one seemed to be pretty good quality. Yes, charging from 240V would be preferred, but that is rarely available.
https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Power-Conductor-Outdoor-Entertainment/dp/B008DIYCS2/ref=sr_1_9?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1528319735&sr=1-9&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A4459667011
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00917ZAEE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
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Your issue is your outlet. Replace it with a hospital grade and your melting problem will go away. The HG outlets are less than $10.
Is hospital grade the same as 20 amp? If so, that'd be fairly easy to replace. But I don't understand why a melting problem at the female end of the cord would be related to conductivity at the wall outlet.
I also have a high amperage power bar between the cord and the wall, since I think that was mentioned earlier in the thread.
Anyways, with my new cord, I guess I'll try the dielectric paste the next time I need to plug in, unless I hear something different.
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Your shortest path might be to get a 10 AWG or 12 AWG cord and put your own ends on it. The shortest cord that will work for your situation would also help. If you don't wish to make your own cords,
It is difficult to find a standard 120 plug in something greater than 14 AWG.
https://smile.amazon.com/Superior-Electric-EC123-Feet-Electrical/dp/B002S9J5I4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528347953&sr=8-3&keywords=12+awg+power+cord
https://smile.amazon.com/Heavy-Rewireable-Female-Inline-Socket/dp/B00X8F8M3G/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1528350719&sr=1-2&keywords=c13+connector+-16+-18++-16awg+-18awg+%22heavy+duty%22
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I can easily splice in some heavier cord and change the wall outlet. But I still don't understand how that will help things if the problem (ie, melting female plug end) is at the interface of the cord plug and the bike plug.
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I can easily splice in some heavier cord and change the wall outlet. But I still don't understand how that will help things if the problem (ie, melting female plug end) is at the interface of the cord plug and the bike plug.
Oooooooh, I didn't get that it was on the bike end of the cord. Then yeah, it sounds like the outlet is fine and the cord is fine too, if those aren't heating up.
Sounds like the jack on the bike itself is failing. There have been a couple of reported problems with that -- it seems to me maybe Ben had a problem on one of his summer trips? If I remember correctly, the earlier bikes had some issues with sparking when they were plugged in, and the solution seemed to be to plug in the bike end of the cord before the outlet end. But to solve your immediate problem, I'd either have the dealer look at the jack on the bike or see if it's easily removable. It might be a fairly standard piece of hardware you could replace yourself.
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Unfortunately, the bike's male plug end doesn't seem to be easily removable, and unfortunately, my nearest dealer is about 1,000 kms away. So I think I'll try the dielectric grease and then check every hour or so for plug warmth while the bike is charging.
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Dielectric grease probably won't help much, it won't improve the contact resistance. It's actually an electrical insulator (that's what "dielectric" means); its job is really just to keep moisture out. It's a long-term preventative, not a cure.
If you can't replace that plug easily, clean the contacts as well as you can using a small file, pencil eraser, scraper of some sort, even a small piece of fine-grit sandpaper. Nice shiny bright copper/brass contacts should be your goal. The male contacts should have some sort of bulge or projection to create some spring force to ensure good contact with the female contact in the cord; check if these have been smashed flat, and if so, try to bend them back again to restore some spring force. Spray some contact cleaner in there, then insert the cord end in and out (with the cord not energized!) several times, hopefully helping to scrub the contacts cleaner. Also make sure you get the cord plugged in ALL THE WAY when you start charging. Maybe it's backing off a bit and you're losing contact.
If none of that helps, if the contacts are bright and shiny and you're sure you've got a good connection, but you still get heat, the contacts probably aren't the problem. It's probably the connections TO the bike plug, which are probably crimp joints. If you have a bad crimp, it'll need to be fixed. Maybe you're got a friend who's an electrician who can help you out?
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The male contacts should have some sort of bulge or projection to create some spring force to ensure good contact with the female contact in the cord
The male contacts from the bike are just solid prongs, unlike what you'd see on household appliances. But I don't think that's the issue anyway. I just finished plugging in the bike, and the uppermost bike conductor, as felt by a finger reaching behind the frame, got extremely hot within just a couple of minutes. This accords with what happened to the previous cord plug, which was that only the plastic around the top female slot melted. So the problem must be with the part of the bike plug that is in behind the frame.
Does anyone know what the part is called? Or the part number? I guess it would just be the "power receptacle" or something like that.
Unfortunately, when I was investigating this last year, it seemed that the attachment screws were extremely difficult or impossible to get to.
Has anyone else had to change out this part?
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I can easily splice in some heavier cord and change the wall outlet. But I still don't understand how that will help things if the problem (ie, melting female plug end) is at the interface of the cord plug and the bike plug.
Sounds like the jack on the bike itself is failing. There have been a couple of reported problems with that -- it seems to me maybe Ben had a problem on one of his summer trips? If I remember correctly, the earlier bikes had some issues with sparking when they were plugged in, and the solution seemed to be to plug in the bike end of the cord before the outlet end. But to solve your immediate problem, I'd either have the dealer look at the jack on the bike or see if it's easily removable. It might be a fairly standard piece of hardware you could replace yourself.
That must be it. And even though I have been using a high-amperage power bar that I switch on AFTER plugging the cord into the bike, the trouble still occurs.
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If I'm able to get the bike plug prong assembly out from behind the frame, would I be advised to solder the crimp connectors to the prong assembly? (at least the top one that seems to be the culprit)
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The top connector is on a row by itself and centered? Sounds like you're drawing a lot of ground current. Does anyone know if that's a sign of a failing charger or just normal operation? I know that I wasn't able to charge my bike from a GFCI outlet.
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Well, I managed to get things apart, and the bike's plug was toast. Looks almost exactly like Wijnand71's in this post:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
But it looks like he has 4 wires, whereas I only have three.
Anyway, I will be looking for another plug.
I'm tempted to solder directly to the male spades on the back of the plug. Would I run any risks doing that?
The cords I've been using are 15 amp, 14 gauge. Is that sufficient? Can I assume that since the spade connector on the back of the bike plug was totally toast, that it was the weak link?
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Well, I managed to get things apart, and the bike's plug was toast. Looks almost exactly like Wijnand71's in this post:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
But it looks like he has 4 wires, whereas I only have three.
Anyway, I will be looking for another plug.
I'm tempted to solder directly to the male spades on the back of the plug. Would I run any risks doing that?
The cords I've been using are 15 amp, 14 gauge. Is that sufficient? Can I assume that since the spade connector on the back of the bike plug was totally toast, that it was the weak link?
I have been using 15 amp, 14 gauge cords for years and have never had a problem. They get a little warm to the touch at the male and female connections when the charger is going full steam ahead, but otherwise work as intended. :)
However, I did have one melting incident a couple of years ago. I had a 14 gauge wire connected to an old 50' long 16 gauge extension cord while charging at my daughter's home (where her lights in the kitchen start dimming in the 60-year old home when I am charging). Right before the on-board charger turned off (when it was pulling maximum amps from the wall), the connection between the bike's charging cable and the old extension cord melted, resulting in the male and female connections fusing together, needing them to be cut off and replaced with new ends. So I don't recommend using a long, old, 16 gauge, extension cord to charge your bike. But then you are not as dumb as me - are you? ;)
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Well, I managed to get things apart, and the bike's plug was toast. Looks almost exactly like Wijnand71's in this post:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
But it looks like he has 4 wires, whereas I only have three.
Anyway, I will be looking for another plug.
I'm tempted to solder directly to the male spades on the back of the plug. Would I run any risks doing that?
The cords I've been using are 15 amp, 14 gauge. Is that sufficient? Can I assume that since the spade connector on the back of the bike plug was totally toast, that it was the weak link?
I have been using 15 amp, 14 gauge cords for years and have never had a problem. They get a little warm to the touch at the male and female connections when the charger is going full steam ahead, but otherwise work as intended. :)
Good to know. Thanks. So today, I'll be looking around for a new C13/C14 socket. I'm just not sure if I should solder directly to the spades.
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A good, tight spade connection should be sufficient. High amperage connections are often made with contacts; with springs or torqued bolts to prevent overheating. Soldering to leads in a molded socket might lead to deformation.
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Well, I managed to get things apart, and the bike's plug was toast. Looks almost exactly like Wijnand71's in this post:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7127.msg59275#msg59275
Yep, you definitely found the problem. It looks like somebody wasn't making very good crimps at the factory for a while, or the plastic housing wasn't being manufactured correctly. Hopefully that's been resolved.
I'm tempted to solder directly to the male spades on the back of the plug. Would I run any risks doing that?
The cords I've been using are 15 amp, 14 gauge. Is that sufficient? Can I assume that since the spade connector on the back of the bike plug was totally toast, that it was the weak link?
Since the charger is rated to draw no more than 12 amps, 14 gauge will be fine. And though it's true a proper spade connection can actually offer lower contact resistance and better reliability than a soldered connection, if you do a decent job soldering and don't melt the housing, it should work at least until you can order a new one, which you should do. Don't leave a soldered connection bare, though, give it a coat of silicone or something to keep the water out. These are motorcycles and you might get caught out in the rain.
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So far, so good. I was easily able to find a replacement C13/C14 receptacle, 14 gauge wire, female spades, and various diameters of shrink wrap. At this point, I've soldered a bit (about 1") of extra 14 gauge wire to the 12 gauge wire coming from the bike (to make up for the lost length on the old spades). I've put the three resulting wires and spades in some small shrink wrap and heated them closed. I've attached the spades to the new socket, and I've plugged the unit in, and switched on the power. After about 5 minutes, with my fingers directly on the shrink wrap, there is no detectable warmth coming out of any of the wire/spade/wrap units.
I still have to shrink on some 1" diameter wrap to weather-proof the whole bundle, but I'm wondering if I should stuff anything in there first? The old unit seemed to have some sort of solidified gunk in between the small wraps and the big wrap.
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You can buy shrink wrap that has a self sealing glue in it , we use it on salter trucks and it holds up well, I believe we buy it from carquest (any auto supply store should have it) once it’s heated and the sealant is soft you can bend it then hold it until it cools, it will stay in that position
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Sounds like you got it beat, quixotic! I've used the same adhesive-lined heat shrink that Ndm is talking about, and love it, but it's fairly pricey and someone pointed out that the lining is just plain old hot glue. Now I just cut a piece of hot glue to fit, put it inside the heat shrink, and it melts and fills all voids as the heat shrink shrinks. Works just as well for a fraction of the price.
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You’re correct Doug, when they are paying $100/hr overtime call in rate the municipality would gladly spring for the glue lined shrink tube and not have to deal with a guy searching for hours! We buy this to do our part to curb government waste ::)