ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MostlyBonkers on May 29, 2019, 07:36:06 AM
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Just to bring some balance to The Force, I have decided to take the plunge and buy an SR/F. It all started when the on-board charger on my 2014DS failed ten days ago...
So the DS and CB1000R are going to make way for a shiny new SRF. The second-hand market is a bit thin on the ground at the moment and I didn't really want to invest in an SR now that the SRF is almost with us.
Stay tuned for an almost inevitable essay or two from yours truly when I get my mitts on one.
If anyone would like to buy my 2014DS, let me know. Just bear in mind that I'm based in the South East of England. It should be ready for sale in a couple of weeks.
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Best of luck with everything, and I look forward to your essay.
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Good for you man you stuck in there and this is your reward. :)
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Best of luck with everything, and I look forward to your essay.
Thanks Brian. :)
Not just one essay though, surely? No, no, no, that will not do! This is simply a new volume in my electric motorcycle encyclopedia! ;-)
One day I might just get round to copying and pasting all my posts on this forum into a Word document just to see how much I've written. I keep coming back and just can't help myself!
Perhaps your efforts with the Unofficial Zero Manual are more worthy of the encyclopedic analogy. You've contributed to and curated a vast body of knowledge that must be invaluable to so many people. You've been doing it tirelessly for years now too. Hats off to you and a big round of applause! :)
I've got a real sense that things have changed a lot in the last six months or so. The world is finally waking up to EVs and the naysayers are dieing away. There are still a lot of people to convince in the world of motorcycles, but even the die hards and haters will admit that electric motorcycles are the future.
Whilst it has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride for me, the one constant is that it has been fun. I've moaned and groaned with the best of them, but the experience of riding my Zero has always been a pleasure. It's a pleasure I just keep wanting more of too and I'm just happy to be a part of it.
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Good for you man you stuck in there and this is your reward. :)
They aren't giving me one for free, you know! ;-)
Honestly though, the SRF has been eating away at me ever since it was announced. I've tried so hard to put it out of my mind and it has been months now. It was quite easy at the start because it was even more expensive than an SR or DSR, which I've had ambitions of owning ever since they were launched. However, the SRF isn't all that much more expensive. At least in its standard incarnation. Considering how much more you get for your money over an SR, it gives the old platform a big shove towards obsolescence. Not that they aren't still great bikes of course. A new one should give 20 years of good service at least and is still more bike than the majority of people will ever need.
I'm really having to push the boat out for this purchase. After all, it is an eye watering amount of money to be spending on a motorcycle. I just have a gut feeling that I'll be far happier with this decision than so many others I've made in the past.
I absolutely love my 2018 CB1000R. It is a real pleasure to ride and just so much fun! It handles beautifully, sounds great, goes really fast and I'll miss not owning it. I wish I could keep it as a second bike, but selling it is the only way I can get this to work financially. I'll also miss my 2014DS. I like the riding position, the way it handles and it can still go at a fair clip. It also gave me the ability to go off-road which I enjoyed immensely. I was seriously thinking about getting Diginows in the belly pan and running it until one of us died. Most likely me from old age! It's a great bike and even has the 14.4 battery in it.
Oh well, I'd better get on. Thanks for the good wishes. :-)
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Similar story with me, same motivation.
I have a 14'DS, which I trade-in for a new SR/F. Besides Wheel Bearings (which I fixed with a CNC spacer and Heavy Duty Bearings) and a new throttle, the DS never let me down and was a very reliable workhorse for my daily commute the last 3 Years (and 24tkm).
It was my first step into Electric vehicles (besides Bafang Bicycle conversion). Was not disappointed and now I know, that my mobility future will be electric.
Upgrading the bike was simply due to get closer to a performance level, where my V-Twin allready is: Excellent Suspension, Dual Disc Brakes and sufficient Autobahn-Power (in exactly this order).
But I will keep my Fossil Bike too, because I will always love "old school" biking with shifting and the liveliness of a combustion engine.
And more important: Beeing able to drive several hours on a wonderfull Sunday in a rural area will take another few years to become reality with electric bikes.
Now impatiently waiting for the delivery. And a little anxious about the first (hopefully only minor) issues, a brandnew bike series will bring along..
best regards,
Marco
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Another 2014 stock battery charger bites the dust. :( It looks like they have a 5-year life expectancy. ;) No wonder they are only guaranteed for two years. ::)
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Another 2014 stock battery charger bites the dust. :( It looks like they have a 5-year life expectancy. ;) No wonder they are only guaranteed for two years. ::)
Richard, I love that all you extracted from that is my stock charger died. It is bloody hilarious that I've used it as the catalyst to go and spend £18,500 and dispose of two very nice bikes. Anyone would think I'm a little mad... [emoji4]
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Similar story with me, same motivation.
I have a 14'DS, which I trade-in for a new SR/F. Besides Wheel Bearings (which I fixed with a CNC spacer and Heavy Duty Bearings) and a new throttle, the DS never let me down and was a very reliable workhorse for my daily commute the last 3 Years (and 24tkm).
It was my first step into Electric vehicles (besides Bafang Bicycle conversion). Was not disappointed and now I know, that my mobility future will be electric.
Upgrading the bike was simply due to get closer to a performance level, where my V-Twin allready is: Excellent Suspension, Dual Disc Brakes and sufficient Autobahn-Power (in exactly this order).
But I will keep my Fossil Bike too, because I will always love "old school" biking with shifting and the liveliness of a combustion engine.
And more important: Beeing able to drive several hours on a wonderfull Sunday in a rural area will take another few years to become reality with electric bikes.
Now impatiently waiting for the delivery. And a little anxious about the first (hopefully only minor) issues, a brandnew bike series will bring along..
best regards,
Marco
Hi Marco,
I'm shooting myself in the foot by getting rid of my Honda. I love that bike more every time I ride it. I'll have to get myself a cheap petrol bike from eBay for the longer trips. My reality is that I seldom go that far from home. I also love not spending money on petrol.
What V-twin are you running, out of interest?
Best,
Tom
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Best of luck with everything, and I look forward to your essay.
Thanks Brian. :)
Not just one essay though, surely? No, no, no, that will not do! This is simply a new volume in my electric motorcycle encyclopedia! ;-)
One day I might just get round to copying and pasting all my posts on this forum into a Word document just to see how much I've written. I keep coming back and just can't help myself!
Perhaps your efforts with the Unofficial Zero Manual are more worthy of the encyclopedic analogy. You've contributed to and curated a vast body of knowledge that must be invaluable to so many people. You've been doing it tirelessly for years now too. Hats off to you and a big round of applause! :)
I've got a real sense that things have changed a lot in the last six months or so. The world is finally waking up to EVs and the naysayers are dieing away. There are still a lot of people to convince in the world of motorcycles, but even the die hards and haters will admit that electric motorcycles are the future.
Whilst it has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride for me, the one constant is that it has been fun. I've moaned and groaned with the best of them, but the experience of riding my Zero has always been a pleasure. It's a pleasure I just keep wanting more of too and I'm just happy to be a part of it.
I do not share your appraisal, and think the glut of manufacturers for the 2020 model year is going to make it difficult and possibly harder to promote these vehicles. Most of these companies are still not prepared for manufacturing at scale, let alone marketing the bikes well or helping people see past the price point and its relationship to battery capacity, range, and durability.
People say that electric motorcycling is the future, and then they avoid a purchase by saying the bikes are too expensive. This literally becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they never become the present because no one grapples with the price point or trade offs, and also the motorcycles never become affordable because they don’t achieve sales scale on a single manufacturing pipeline.
I mean it: more vendors filling in a market with small batch models does absolutely nothing to make the bikes more affordable. There has to be a manufacturer making models that altogether sell enough to achieve volume pricing on battery pack assembly and other components, and not a single model proposed from the new manufacturers is positioned to do that.
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My feeling is that until you see the Japanese big four enter the electric motorcycle market, there will not be much money to be made selling this new technology. While you might see BMW, KTM and maybe some day Ducati, selling electric motorcycles, I think that has more to do with their "green" political agenda and impressing the EU bureaucrats, than trying to make much of a profit from the experience.
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Best of luck with everything, and I look forward to your essay.
Thanks Brian. :)
Not just one essay though, surely? No, no, no, that will not do! This is simply a new volume in my electric motorcycle encyclopedia! ;-)
One day I might just get round to copying and pasting all my posts on this forum into a Word document just to see how much I've written. I keep coming back and just can't help myself!
Perhaps your efforts with the Unofficial Zero Manual are more worthy of the encyclopedic analogy. You've contributed to and curated a vast body of knowledge that must be invaluable to so many people. You've been doing it tirelessly for years now too. Hats off to you and a big round of applause! :)
I've got a real sense that things have changed a lot in the last six months or so. The world is finally waking up to EVs and the naysayers are dieing away. There are still a lot of people to convince in the world of motorcycles, but even the die hards and haters will admit that electric motorcycles are the future.
Whilst it has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride for me, the one constant is that it has been fun. I've moaned and groaned with the best of them, but the experience of riding my Zero has always been a pleasure. It's a pleasure I just keep wanting more of too and I'm just happy to be a part of it.
I do not share your appraisal, and think the glut of manufacturers for the 2020 model year is going to make it difficult and possibly harder to promote these vehicles. Most of these companies are still not prepared for manufacturing at scale, let alone marketing the bikes well or helping people see past the price point and its relationship to battery capacity, range, and durability.
People say that electric motorcycling is the future, and then they avoid a purchase by saying the bikes are too expensive. This literally becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they never become the present because no one grapples with the price point or trade offs, and also the motorcycles never become affordable because they don’t achieve sales scale on a single manufacturing pipeline.
I mean it: more vendors filling in a market with small batch models does absolutely nothing to make the bikes more affordable. There has to be a manufacturer making models that altogether sell enough to achieve volume pricing on battery pack assembly and other components, and not a single model proposed from the new manufacturers is positioned to do that.
I think they are achieving mass market adoption in China, Brian. You do make a very good point about at the boutique electric bike companies not really helping the situation.
Do you know that Zero have effectively sold all their 2019 stock already? Even dealerships that aren't really trying have sold old stock recently and there is very little on the shop floor. Things feel different to how things were only a year or two ago. Zero have a nice problem in their hands; they can't keep up with demand!
In fact, if you are in the market for a new Zero at the moment, your choice is limited to ordering an SRF! At least they are coming off the production line at the moment. A local dealer to me has a 2019 S and a DS as demonstrators. I took one out today for a test ride. If I wanted either model new, it just isn't possible. That dealer is willing to sell their demo bikes, but many aren't right now because it reduces the opportunity for future sales. Interesting times!
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I do not share your appraisal, and think the glut of manufacturers for the 2020 model year is going to make it difficult and possibly harder to promote these vehicles. Most of these companies are still not prepared for manufacturing at scale, let alone marketing the bikes well or helping people see past the price point and its relationship to battery capacity, range, and durability.
People say that electric motorcycling is the future, and then they avoid a purchase by saying the bikes are too expensive. This literally becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they never become the present because no one grapples with the price point or trade offs, and also the motorcycles never become affordable because they don’t achieve sales scale on a single manufacturing pipeline.
I mean it: more vendors filling in a market with small batch models does absolutely nothing to make the bikes more affordable. There has to be a manufacturer making models that altogether sell enough to achieve volume pricing on battery pack assembly and other components, and not a single model proposed from the new manufacturers is positioned to do that.
I think they are achieving mass market adoption in China, Brian. You do make a very good point about at the boutique electric bike companies not really helping the situation.
Do you know that Zero have effectively sold all their 2019 stock already? Even dealerships that aren't really trying have sold old stock recently and there is very little on the shop floor. Things feel different to how things were only a year or two ago. Zero have a nice problem in their hands; they can't keep up with demand!
In fact, if you are in the market for a new Zero at the moment, your choice is limited to ordering an SRF! At least they are coming off the production line at the moment. A local dealer to me has a 2019 S and a DS as demonstrators. I took one out today for a test ride. If I wanted either model new, it just isn't possible. That dealer is willing to sell their demo bikes, but many aren't right now because it reduces the opportunity for future sales. Interesting times!
What's selling in China is a totally different market with a totally different pipeline of cell/battery-architecture being made for it.
It's possible that the new models tap into that, but only the Lightning Strike is signaling that in its pricing.
Any arguments about Zero's stock must be tempered by the awareness that Zero is probably managing their pipelines carefully to avoid a mess with the SR/F rollout. I don't know what the other 2020 models will be like, but that could also be a factor, where they want to slack in production lines to retool or deal with issues.
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I do not share your appraisal, and think the glut of manufacturers for the 2020 model year is going to make it difficult and possibly harder to promote these vehicles. Most of these companies are still not prepared for manufacturing at scale, let alone marketing the bikes well or helping people see past the price point and its relationship to battery capacity, range, and durability.
People say that electric motorcycling is the future, and then they avoid a purchase by saying the bikes are too expensive. This literally becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they never become the present because no one grapples with the price point or trade offs, and also the motorcycles never become affordable because they don’t achieve sales scale on a single manufacturing pipeline.
I mean it: more vendors filling in a market with small batch models does absolutely nothing to make the bikes more affordable. There has to be a manufacturer making models that altogether sell enough to achieve volume pricing on battery pack assembly and other components, and not a single model proposed from the new manufacturers is positioned to do that.
I think they are achieving mass market adoption in China, Brian. You do make a very good point about at the boutique electric bike companies not really helping the situation.
Do you know that Zero have effectively sold all their 2019 stock already? Even dealerships that aren't really trying have sold old stock recently and there is very little on the shop floor. Things feel different to how things were only a year or two ago. Zero have a nice problem in their hands; they can't keep up with demand!
In fact, if you are in the market for a new Zero at the moment, your choice is limited to ordering an SRF! At least they are coming off the production line at the moment. A local dealer to me has a 2019 S and a DS as demonstrators. I took one out today for a test ride. If I wanted either model new, it just isn't possible. That dealer is willing to sell their demo bikes, but many aren't right now because it reduces the opportunity for future sales. Interesting times!
What's selling in China is a totally different market with a totally different pipeline of cell/battery-architecture being made for it.
It's possible that the new models tap into that, but only the Lightning Strike is signaling that in its pricing.
Any arguments about Zero's stock must be tempered by the awareness that Zero is probably managing their pipelines carefully to avoid a mess with the SR/F rollout. I don't know what the other 2020 models will be like, but that could also be a factor, where they want to slack in production lines to retool or deal with issues.
I can't say I disagree.
What I'm taking from this is it's the lack of concrete information and poor communication from Zero, that is causing frustration. It even rhymes!
Let me see if I can get some more info from a credible source within Zero. If I do, then I'll post it here and we can make sense of it. I just think they're flat out at the moment. It reminds me of the Golden Rules of Flying: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. Sometimes there just isn't time to communicate when the workload is too high. In those circumstances it is more important to fly the plane and know where you're going. If you can't even manage to navigate, then just flying the plane is the priority.
I'm pretty relaxed about it. There are other, much larger manufacturers, doing a worse job of it than Zero at the moment. I mentioned BMW somewhere and I've no doubt there are others. Some might say that it is part of the strategy. People always want what they can't have. This generates hype and more sales. Apple do it to such an extent that they manage to get people queuing around the block for each new launch. I don't like it, especially from Apple who have the resources to produce as many iPhones as they like but continue to restrict supply for weeks or months after launch. They're not short of a bob or two either!
That's why it's nice to have at least two bikes. If one is broken you can still ride the other. I've got my Honda and that is plenty to keep me happy until the SRF arrives. It is also helping me to be patient while the replacement charger arrives for my 2014DS. I'm getting that done gratis, even though the last charger that broke was replaced three and a half years ago. It would cost me the best part of a grand to get it sorted otherwise. It beggars belief how a piece of electronics that only charges at 1.3kW can cost almost 900 quid! At least it takes less than an hour to fit one. If you know what you're doing, of course.
Zero, like BMW, are a victim of their own success. You can't get an S1000RR until January because the new GS models have been selling like hotcakes. Production of the S1000RR has been pushed back and limited, to get all those GS orders fulfilled. It probably takes a long time to expand production facilities and I don't blame manufacturers for being hesitant to do so. A good year could be followed by a few bad ones.
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Those are good points, too. Thanks!
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I agree with most of this but I have to say that is why to hire people to design, others to build and others to communicate. When if the design and build guys are swamped, the communicate guys can still communicate. Hey I don't expect the pilot to come out and serve me a soda, I want him to concentrate on flying. That is why they how flight attendants.
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Hi Marco,
I'm shooting myself in the foot by getting rid of my Honda. I love that bike more every time I ride it. I'll have to get myself a cheap petrol bike from eBay for the longer trips. My reality is that I seldom go that far from home. I also love not spending money on petrol.
What V-twin are you running, out of interest?
Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Since a couple of years I own a '99 TL1000S, which I beware like an eyeball. It was my dream bike back in the days, when I got my drivers license (but it was far to expensive for me that time). ;D
I always love to have some "back up" with my vehicles. And similar to bicycles, each type of bike covers different use cases, so does the Zero.
Best regards,
Marco