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[Reaper]

Sorry to beat the hell out of a dead horse, but I know NOTHING about contactors and I have an electrical wiring question. Hopefully my final one. I am about to place an order Monday or Tuesday, so I just want to make sure I've got everything straight.

So now that I've been pretty much convinced to go with the EV200 contactor (and it does sound like a very stout contactor), but how does one begin to wire this thing?  I understand the entirety of the rest of the Sevcon PMAC controller schematic... but I am clueless about contactors.

So, here's the Sevcon schematic
http://media.photobucket.com/image/millipak%20wiring%20diagram/tomausherman/sevcon.jpg 

And here's the specs on the EV200:
relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf

Now here's the ultimate stupid question.  Why is a contactor even needed?  It's function is primarily to serve as a fail safe in case of current problems by disconencting the circuit right?  Sorry, but I have a very fledgling knowledge of what it is, or what it does in the context of an EV.

So, from taking a look at the Sevcon schematic, it looks like they are referencing the use of an Albright (Curtis) contactor.  Wiring up one of those would be as easy as following the picture.  Looking at the EV200 is more complex.  It seems to have polarity associated with it and the Sevcon schematic only seems to use the positive end of the battery.  What's the deal with the negative terminal? 

There's two wires coming from the contactor too.  Those have polarity as well.  (I fear miswiring something and blowing up some hardware that's quite expensive).  How does one approach this monster?  I hope not to end up with a blown up contactor or controller because I didn't wire something right.

Lastly, Kelly controllers required the use of a precharge resistor.  Does the EV200 as well?  Would I just wire that along the connectors at the top of the controller?  The schematic doesn't seem to indicate the need for their use.

Thanks for any help.  I want to make sure that my mind is straight on this before I drop 600 dollars into this thing.

[frodus]

Ok, slow down a bit.... everything is fine
A contactor is just a large relay for turning on and off Main power.

So now that I've been pretty much convinced to go with the EV200 contactor (and it does sound like a very stout contactor), but how does one begin to wire this thing?  I understand the entirety of the rest of the Sevcon PMAC controller schematic... but I am clueless about contactors.

Two main lugs are for switching the pack... the other two wires going into the EV200 are + and -..... you supply power to those leads and it closes the contacts inside.

Now here's the ultimate stupid question.  Why is a contactor even needed?  It's function is primarily to serve as a fail safe in case of current problems by disconencting the circuit right?  Sorry, but I have a very fledgling knowledge of what it is, or what it does in the context of an EV.

The contactor us for connecting the pack to the controller. If you just left it connected, you'd kill your batteries. Just because its not turning the motor doesn't mean its not using juice. Its also meant to act as a failsafe. If you put other switces in-line with the contactor... you can disable it. For instance a killswitch, a kickstand switch, a lanyard...etc. Its a safety thing.

So, from taking a look at the Sevcon schematic, it looks like they are referencing the use of an Albright (Curtis) contactor.  Wiring up one of those would be as easy as following the picture.  Looking at the EV200 is more complex.  It seems to have polarity associated with it and the Sevcon schematic only seems to use the positive end of the battery.  What's the deal with the negative terminal? 

The only difference of the EV200 and an allbright is that the EV200 has a circuit board in it called an economizer, it Triggers the contactor, then it drops the current to just enough to keep it held in. Instead of using 1-2Amps, it uses 0.15Amps. Because of the economizer and the fact that its got the surge protection diode built into it, its got a polarity. Pin 1 on the Sevcon schematic is the + of the contactor, Pin 8 is the negative.

There's two wires coming from the contactor too.  Those have polarity as well.  (I fear miswiring something and blowing up some hardware that's quite expensive).  How does one approach this monster?  I hope not to end up with a blown up contactor or controller because I didn't wire something right.

See above answer. the red wire goes to Pin 1, the black wire goes to pin 8.

Lastly, Kelly controllers required the use of a precharge resistor.  Does the EV200 as well?  Would I just wire that along the connectors at the top of the controller?  The schematic doesn't seem to indicate the need for their use.

the precharge is for the controller, not the contactor. Some controllers have that built in. Is that schematic from Sevcon? If so, then it appears that the precharge is built into the controller. DO NOT wire across the connectors on top of the controller. That would be a short circuit. Wire as Sevcon recomends. The EV200 is the same thing schematically an Allbright, but with a polarity because its got the diode built in.


Buy it on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kilovac-EV200-Series-Contactor-Tyco-Wired_W0QQitemZ200353276714QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea5fc632a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Much cheaper

[Reaper]

Thanks for the help Frodus, I appreciate it. 

O.k., thanks to your clarification I understand how to wire the wires from the contactor to the controller.  But I still am a little unclear what the terminal lugs are used for when you say "switching the pack."  Could you by any chance clarify that a bit for me?

From the EV200 manual the two lugs at the top are "A1" and "A2" which correlate to being positive and negative respectively.

So, referencing the Sevcon schematic again (which is indeed from Sevcon) could I then take the A1 terminal lug (pos) to a 300 amp fuse and then to the positive end of the battery, and then the "A2" terminal lug (neg) to the "B+" connector on the Sevcon controller?

And very, very good find on the EV200.  I am going to buy one now.  That's easy on the checkbook.... and I like that.

[frodus]

Thats how it wires up.

Battery + to fuse to A1
Then A2 to controller B+ connection
red wire on contactor to pin 1 (keyswitch)
black wire on contactor to pin 8 on controller

A1 and A2 aren't battery + and battery -.... its not polarity in the same sense you're thinking. Its talking about the direction of current flow. Current must flow from the positive side to the negative side.

[Reaper]

Thats how it wires up.

Battery + to fuse to A1
Then A2 to controller B+ connection
red wire on contactor to pin 1 (keyswitch)
black wire on contactor to pin 8 on controller

A1 and A2 aren't battery + and battery -.... its not polarity in the same sense you're thinking. Its talking about the direction of current flow. Current must flow from the positive side to the negative side.

Oh I get it now!  Thanks a lot.  Something about wiring something marked negative to something marked positive didn't compute for me.

[Reaper]

Thats how it wires up.

Battery + to fuse to A1
Then A2 to controller B+ connection
red wire on contactor to pin 1 (keyswitch)
black wire on contactor to pin 8 on controller

A1 and A2 aren't battery + and battery -.... its not polarity in the same sense you're thinking. Its talking about the direction of current flow. Current must flow from the positive side to the negative side.

Oh I get it now!  Thanks a lot.  Something about wiring something marked negative to something marked positive didn't compute for me.

O.k., I lied... one more final issue...

So I was looking at the Magura 0-5k twist grip throttle.  Seems like a pretty standard throttle for this application.  I understand that it has 3 wires, a brown, a black... and a blue.  The brown and black as I am to understand it are used for 0-5k resistance.  Most say that the blue is not used.

Referencing the Sevcon diagram above, which wire belongs to the switch, which to pin 11 and which to the negative terminal of the battery?  I understand that it doesn't matter which direction the brown or black wires are wired to, but what of the blue one?  Does sevcon's diagram indicate splitting one wire to the switch and negative terminal of the battery?

Just want to make sure that I am reading this right.  Thanks.

[frodus]

Do you have a multimeter? It sure helps to have one handy when doing this stuff.

If you look at the schematic, it shows that it uses a 5k-0 signal, not 0-5k. This throttle does both.

Measure between the wiper and the blue wire. That should be 5k-0.

Now, resistors are not polarity sensitive. EITHER one of the two wires (blue OR brown) can go to battery negative. The other goes to pin 11. Tape off the black wire.

Also, its not a switch, its a potentiometer.... be careful mixing the two up.

[Reaper]

Do you have a multimeter? It sure helps to have one handy when doing this stuff.

If you look at the schematic, it shows that it uses a 5k-0 signal, not 0-5k. This throttle does both.

Measure between the wiper and the blue wire. That should be 5k-0.

Now, resistors are not polarity sensitive. EITHER one of the two wires (blue OR brown) can go to battery negative. The other goes to pin 11. Tape off the black wire.

Also, its not a switch, its a potentiometer.... be careful mixing the two up.

Good advice, thanks.

What I meant by a "switch" is that one of the leads from the potentiometer seems to be connected the the pins that contain FWD/REV and the seat switch.  I was curious whether or not that was separate wire from the throttle, or the it was one wire from the throttle split to run to two places (both the negative battery terminal and the switching assembly).  I understand the I am looking for a single pole, double throw switch to indicate FWD/REV and since the Magura has three wires I was under the impression that there was a wire for each.  Upon further inspection I am starting to believe that my initial impression was incorrect.

I think my multimeter does ohms, but I'll double check that.  If not, I'll buy one,  I don't believe them to be more than a couple of bucks.

[frodus]

The connection to all of those switches is just a node for Ground. Thats where all of those switches and the pot are tied to B-. They're all physically tied to the same point.

Also, The throttle only tells how MUCH the controller goes on, not the direction. The switch for f/r does the control of which direction the motor turns.

I don't know of a multimeter that DOESN'T do ohms.... so you're probably in luck


What are you gonna use reverse for anyway? I mean, seriously.... I'd just wire it as always forward.

[Reaper]

The connection to all of those switches is just a node for Ground. Thats where all of those switches and the pot are tied to B-. They're all physically tied to the same point.

Also, The throttle only tells how MUCH the controller goes on, not the direction. The switch for f/r does the control of which direction the motor turns.

I don't know of a multimeter that DOESN'T do ohms.... so you're probably in luck


What are you gonna use reverse for anyway? I mean, seriously.... I'd just wire it as always forward.

O.k., I think I've got it now thanks. 

So... seeing as all of those switches are just a ground for the negative battery terminal, then one of the 5k-0 ohm wires goes to pin 11 and the other goes both to the negative battery terminal and also to pin 2.  The rest of them I need nothing to do with other than jumping the seat switch at pin 5 per the Sevcon manual. 

Sound correct?

[frodus]

Honestly, I can't read that tiny schematic, do you have the PDF of the Sevcon manual? Much easier to read if its larger. I can't read the 4 switch inputs on the Controller.

[Reaper]

Honestly, I can't read that tiny schematic, do you have the PDF of the Sevcon manual? Much easier to read if its larger. I can't read the 4 switch inputs on the Controller.

Sure thing.  It's also here as a PDF: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/millipak_pmac_wiring.pdf