ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: protomech on May 04, 2012, 09:36:19 PM
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Rode the bike in to work yesterday in the rain. Rain stopped mid-day. Left from work to meet friends for dinner last night .. when I left the restaurant, the bike displayed a BMS fault (two flashes then four flashes on the warning indicator on the gauge cluster) and the throttle was disabled.
Short version: my bike collects moisture in the BMS compartment when ridden or left in the rain, and the moisture CAN (once in 4 damp rides so far) cause the BMS to throw a fault and disable the throttle. The fault persisted through multiple BMS resets, but cleared the next morning after the bike dried. You can check for moisture collecting on the interior of the BMS compartment through the circular viewing window on the front plate of the battery assembly box.
I called Harlan (who you gonna call? Hollywood Electric!) Harlan told me that you can reset the BMS. There is an access port beside the BMS window on the front of the battery box, you need to remove the rubber seal to access it. There are two momentary contact switches, press them both for about 10 seconds and the BMS board will hold a green light and beep.
Pressing both momentary contacts at once is difficult without the right tools, as the access port is quite small and the piezo beeper serial port plug restricts access to objects of diameter approximately 1/4". I had good success using two small allen wrenches.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0LE-38Wfvmg/T6N_O7jW4kI/AAAAAAAABTM/UYLqgT4ZNpo/s665/IMG_20120504_002233.jpg)
Unfortunately, resetting the BMS did not clear my fault. I ended up towing it home. :-(
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7KUywJShSlo/T6N_Q-vvquI/AAAAAAAABTU/jU7jrYm3aWo/s887/IMG_20120504_014315.jpg)
I stored it in the garage and allowed it to dry. This morning the BMS did not throw a fault and was behaving normally.
I have a Google+ album with a bunch of crappy photographs detailing the removal of the front of the battery box .. or rather, the battery assembly.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/103632203146469467629/albums/5738697808322386801
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Sorry to hear about that. I enjoyed the pictures that you posted a link to. Thanks for the heads up and info.
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sad to hear that.
for some reason water/moisture is getting into the BMS. Any ideas ? from the top maybe as the front is covered reasonably well by the fairings.
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The front of the enclosure definitely is not environmentally sealed. The front panel has built up a pretty good caking of dirt on the inside (at 1700 miles of street riding). I guess this will be something I have to clean periodically.
Zero contacted me today, they're sending out a new revision of the BMS board that should be more weatherproofed. I was hoping the board would be here today .. but it's looking like it may be later this week. I'll probably reassemble the Zero S and ride some until then.. I can't go a week without riding!
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Zero contacted me today, they're sending out a new revision of the BMS board that should be more weatherproofed. I was hoping the board would be here today .. but it's looking like it may be later this week. I'll probably reassemble the Zero S and ride some until then.. I can't go a week without riding!
I know the feeling, except I'm scared to ride mine lest all the oil leak out of the fork and do more damage :( I hope this resolves your problem.
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Wow - this is bad news. I usually ride year-round. I've only ridden in the rain a couple of times since I got my ZF9, but haven't had any problems.
I didn't see any warnings in the owner's manual about riding in the rain. What was Zero's response (besides fixing your BMS board)? It is supposed to be rideable in the rain, isn't it?
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Well, I'll tell you one thing, I am being real careful when washing my bike now. I am using a light spray and riding it around afterward to dry things out before parking it for the night (just in case).
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Yes, you should absolutely be able to ride in the rain and wash the bike (though the manual does state to not use pressure washers). The charger, motor controller, motor, and BMS are all designed to handle moisture and water spray .. but the BMS may have a design flaw.
It's worth noting too that while the bike shows symptoms of being affected by moisture (disabled throttle when damp, resets had no effect, worked fine the next morning), I don't know for sure that's the problem. The board certainly looked fine when I pulled off the front plate, no obvious corrosion or dirt buildup on the actual board.
When Zero contacted me, they assured me that it was definitely covered under warranty. I could either bring it to a Honda or Yamaha dealer and Zero would have them handle the disassembly and board replacement or I could do the swap myself. I opted for the latter, so Zero is sending me a new revision of the BMS, a loaner laptop with tools to flash the new board, and taking the old BMS back for analysis. I'll report back when/if I hear what the cause was.
I've ridden a handful of times in the rain without problems before, and Harlan stated this is the second BMS fault that he's heard of .. the first being one he encountered, but a reset was able to get him going again. So this isn't a common problem. I don't mean make people unnecessarily worried.. just aware.
_If_ it is a design flaw in the BMS and not something peculiar to my bike, I would suppose Zero would have to replace all the boards in the shipping bikes. They've certainly demonstrated good customer support to this point, let's see how this plays out.
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Couple more pictures.
Front cover removed. There are 3 ZF3 modules stacked on top of each other that form the ZF9 pack.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kmyWziNC7qs/T6mB1i6vdbI/AAAAAAAABn4/VzgTL1_OEC0/s365/2012-05-08_15-24-19_HDR.jpg)
Inside of the front cover. Quite a bit of dirt build-up. I do zero dirt riding.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5QKfmV6ZGr0/T6mB1sDp8xI/AAAAAAAABn4/0C03Rs6X3OE/s365/2012-05-08_15-25-22_HDR.jpg)
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Wow. Did they recommend you silicone it up or anything? As humid as it gets where I live, dirt buildup like that can become damp and cause problems, even if there's no actual liquid water contact.
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That's a good idea, I'll shoot the enclosure pictures to them and see if they have any comments about dirt entry.
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That's a good idea, I'll shoot the enclosure pictures to them and see if they have any comments about dirt entry.
yeah - maybe on your model the problem that it was not sealing properly...
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It's not an hermetic seal by design. There are small gaps in the enclosure where dirt and dust eventually get inside.. and water too.
Reassembled the bike this morning (new board is not here, may not be here until.. the weekend? still waiting on tracking #), rode in to work. Bike rode fine. Probably will avoid riding in the damp until I have the new board in.
The front plate for the battery enclosure is held on by 24 4mm hex screws. When you reattach the front plate, screw the top 5 screws in loosely, then the side screw on each side. The plates will flex a little and the shank is rather short, so you may need to fiddle with it to get the screws threaded properly.
I'm pretty mechanically inept, and it takes me about an hour to disassemble or reassemble the front plate .. largely due to the aforementioned fiddling.
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Good to hear that, after some drying, you were able to get it running again. I heard the pain in your voice on Tuesday night from not being on the road. :(
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Thanks for the heads up protomech,
For the record. I did rode the bike under the rain once, and when I got home I could see a few drops/some fog behind the little plastic window...it is definitely not sealed. luckily, I had no problems.
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Yeah. It's worth reiterating that I've ridden the bike in the rain maybe 3-5 times prior to the fault without incident, and after letting the bike dry out, I've ridden it another 100 miles without further issue.
I did however elect to not ride it this afternoon, when it was raining : P I think I will add a 4mm and 5mm hex wrench to my toolkit to keep on the bike.. if this ever happens again then maybe I can remove the front plate, wipe down the board, and get back on the road..
The new board should be here Wednesday. I'll take pictures and try to identify the changes.
I would be curious to hear if anyone else has a similar problem in the future. Could be that this is just a freak glitch *shrug*
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Early morning ride today, mist and fog turned into light rain. No problem.
Rode to work. Late evening overcast, turns into mild to moderate rain. No problem.
Whatever caused the glitch is intermittent at best..
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Got my first rain ride on the Zero today. I was a bit nervous, but, the only issue was the zero got all dirty and it took me 20 minutes or so cleaning it up after it dried out. :)
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Yep, rain makes the zero a dirty little bike. Ehm.
Got the box with the new BMS board yesterday, won't get time until saturday probably to work on it.
In the mean time, it's smooth and silent sailing for me : )
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Please let us know the board differences (I'm really curious about it)
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New BMS board:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eSdvbAxwa6U/T7qZyWQ0phI/AAAAAAAABy4/rpUD2NsYJf0/s887/IMG_20120521_120720.jpg)
Old BMS board:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-h5vhsA4r7RE/T7qZyT4xC_I/AAAAAAAABy4/RvJxro-6KLg/s887/IMG_20120521_120805.jpg)
Closeup of new board, temperature sensor connector:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3o1TZUL6iEY/T7qZycVxAcI/AAAAAAAABy4/RAo-pEwsU9k/s887/IMG_20120521_123504.jpg)
Closeup of old board, temperature sensor connector:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hf7oJsoGMaA/T7qZyXrJBqI/AAAAAAAABy4/7pri4gfzyyk/s887/IMG_20120521_123525.jpg)
You can see pretty clearly some corrosion or dirt between two adjacent pins on the temperature sensor connector. Presumably one of the pins is a sensor pin and one is ground, and when the board got damp the sensor shorted and caused the BMS to throw a fault.
The new board has a protective coating over the pins, though it's hard to see in the photo. The Galaxy Nexus's camera is not very good.
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Thanks Protomech, good info to get handy...
Do you know by chance if this is something they have just changed or if there is a # serial brake number when they started to ship bikes with the new board?
Wouldn't like to get the same problem for something that is supposed to be waterproof/splash proof and it is not >:(
They should make a customer recall, shouldn't they?
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I have been told there are no component or PCB changes, just more weather-protection for the pins on the connector. If a bike was not covered by warranty for some reason (say second-hand purchase of an un-updated early run bike in 2015), you could apply epoxy or liquid electrical tape on the pins to get similar protection (http://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?t=16955).
I believe they are currently shipping bikes with the upgraded BMS board. I have bike #00096 (believe the S/DS and X/MX/XU lines are serialized independently). I'm not sure if you can see the thermistor connector without pulling off the front face plate.
Zero is aware of the problem and has corrected it in production. I don't know what their plans are for early-run owners - they may still be evaluating their options and trying to determine how common the defect is.
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OK, rode home today, about 15 miles total, though steady rain. I got soaked, so did my Zero. I got home and toweled it off - I saw the clear plastic window (to the BMS board) had alot of condensation on the inside. Clearly that compartment is not waterproof and they are relying on the conformal coating of the PCB to protect the BMS board.
Happily, my Zero rode fine the whole way - I popped the rubber stopper (next to the plastic window) out for the night to help let the moisture out of the BMS compartment.
I have #47 SZF6. Wonder where I stand with the protection protomech mentions?
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On the day I triggered the fault, I rode it to work in the morning in the rain. The rain had stopped around noon and did not resume. I rode from work to a restaurant that evening. It was only when leaving the restaurant that it registered the fault.
This fault can't be that common - we have a number of people that ride in the rain and I rode in the rain several times without problem before (and afterwards, after the fault but before installing the new board). Looking at the corrosion, I'm guessing that it was a combination of dirt and water spray leaking through the access port that eventually caused a short in the temp sensors.
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On a 200+ mile roadtrip from Orlando to Miami last week, I had the bike shut down on the freeway while i was riding. I called Zero and they shipped me out a new BMS board. The bike shut down while I was in the middle of a huge rain storm. I received the new BMS board already but have not installed it yet. I'll take pictures when i do. Right now I'm posting mostly about the quick charge stations I'm using. Can fully recharge in about 3 hours with the J1772 port at 2.885 kw. More pics and info here: http://www.facebook.com/llifeoffthegrid (http://www.facebook.com/llifeoffthegrid)
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Offthegrid,
Could you tell us your bike model & s/n?
It might be good to know if this is going to be a problem while riding in the rain for everyone...
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its a 2012 Zero S, had delivered end of April. VIN ends in 000172.
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You are way after me. My VIN ends in 51. No issues yet, but then I avoid wet weather as I am retired and can pick and choose when to ride. ;D
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After reading offthegrid's Facebook report of being temporarily stranded again in a rainstorm, due to his not having time to swap in his replacement BMS board prior to his epic ride, I'm thinking now I might need to take mine apart and seal those pins - if not the entire battery box.
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Has anyone else replaced their BMS board? Protomech, did you have any errors after replacing it? Although your replacement was number 650, and I have another coming soon as the replacement BMS that was sent was the wrong batch (actually a lower number than the one on the bike) and still has a glitch, just not the corrosion.
I'm getting a code, that says "number of cells not set" and can't get it to reset or go away. It gives me the code on both the new and old BMS. I've emailed Zero and called but no response on that yet, thought I'd check here while I was waiting for a call back from them.
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2300 miles since the BMS replacement, no BMS problems. We haven't had much rain recently, but it's been out in some pretty heavy rain since.
Had some pretty heavy rain yesterday and today, saw a two-flash followed by three-flash error message on my ride back home. Manual says its a CAN error. No effect on bike operation. Cleared up after it dried at home.
I lost three of the fasteners to the top trim plate on a recent ride (pro-tip: don't fasten gear in the tank position and then ride on really rough roads). I moved one fastener up to secure the trim plate, but suspect water got into something through the two remaining holes. Lesson learned. Edit: heavier rain today, fasteners replaced. No problems.
I believe the BMS can be set to a ZF3, ZF6, ZF9 pack configuration. I wonder if perhaps yours is unconfigured for some reason. If you have access to a serial cable to talk to the BMS then you can probably fix the configuration.
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That's it. Somehow it lost it's identity. Perhaps from too much corrosion. A new one is being boxed up in Santa Cruz right now and about to be on it's way to Florida by tomorrow morning. I'll post again tomorrow when I get it.
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Does anyone know what BMS lot numbers or whatever are affected? I'm afraid that this is a bit of a ticking time bomb, as I haven't had my bike in any heavy rain except once, and neither Zero nor my dealer has communicated anything to me about this. I'm tempted to take mine off and paint those two prongs with clear fingernail polish or something.
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I asked the same question and it seems there is no #serial brake >:( and it is happening randomly (probably because not everyone rides in the rain on regular bases).
If you want to protect the PCB board use one of these...leave the fingernail polish to your wife/partner ;)
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/protcoat.html (http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/protcoat.html)
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The affected BMS boards have a # that reads 948A8B_00400 or lower
And the corrosion on my board was not in the same place. It was widespread over a good portion. I have pictures and will post.
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Thanks offthegrid,
Is there any official communication from Zero about this number, or you just got the information from them?
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this is the backside. notice around r242 aand c281
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Oh, ok. So the new boards are conformally coated (and maybe more to the point, the old ones weren't)? I was under the impression the problem was localized at the thermistor contacts.
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I asked the same question and it seems there is no #serial brake >:( and it is happening randomly (probably because not everyone rides in the rain on regular bases).
If you want to protect the PCB board use one of these...leave the fingernail polish to your wife/partner ;)
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/protcoat.html (http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/protcoat.html)
If the problem can occur in various places on the board, then yes. I'm hesitant to conformally coat power components, though, for fear of impeding heat dissipation, but maybe that's not a problem here.
IMO, every circuit board on this bike should be conformally coated. It may never rain in California, as the old song says, but we can get 60" a year where I live (it's been raining solid for a week as I type).
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Looks like Zero is doing the right thing and issuing a recall for the BMS glitch.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=QuickSearch&rcl_ID=12V310000&summary=true&prod_id=1484812&PrintVersion=YES (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=QuickSearch&rcl_ID=12V310000&summary=true&prod_id=1484812&PrintVersion=YES)
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Between this recall and the brake switch recall, no wonder fixing my turn signal indicator relay is not a big priority for Zero. I called my dealer yesterday about it and they said that Zero had still not responded to their request for a warranty authorization and the replacement part. I submitted the claim late last month.
Repairing the BMW glitch is going to stress out some old-time mechanics at some of their dealers, is my guess. It will be a good learning experience on how to work on electric motorcycles.
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With my 2010 i had the motor replaced twice and the IC dealer trying to troubleshoot on issues. Not efficient at all. Guess without the right base skills and a good trainiing a challenge.
Now i ask Zero to OK to fix myself and as some of u do seems no problem or even better and faster. With that a more direct sales model would be of interest - cut out the stealer.
PS. The dealers are usually concerned that the Zero will not give them much income - most of the usual services are not needed...
So shall we pub for a new biz model? ZeroDirect - roaming tech for the hard to do items from the company combined with good DIY repair training setup - online, remote diag etc.
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I asked Zero if they would sell the support kits individually and they were not interested.
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I wonder why not? They sent people replacement BMS boards. Something with the government now that it made the NHTSA's most-wanted list?
The dealer network, or lack thereof, is one of Zero's biggest problems right now. I half-jokingly told someone that my first and (soon-to-come) second unscheduled round-trip hauling my bike in a pickup to the dealer to get these and my fork issue addressed will have erased the entirety of gas savings I've amassed riding the bike :). Until the paucity of dealers improves, I'd think they would want to continue to help those who are so inclined to do their own servicing. Once the bike is out of warranty that's going to happen anyway.
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Something with the government now that it made the NHTSA's most-wanted list?
From the little I know of the process, I'm pretty sure that it's not anything having to do with NHTSA's intent. The decisions are made based upon either consumer-reported or self-reported (by the manufacturer) issues, and once the number rises above a certain threshold (x% out of units sold), then it's almost an automatic process that a recall notice is issued.
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My impression is that most motorcycle recalls are the result of the manufacturer going to the NHTSA with a problem that could result in a traffic accident. I think they do this to limit their liability exposure should they not take action to recall their bikes.
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Right, but what I was getting at was whether the NHTSA notification changed whether Zero could send replacement parts directly to owners to let them fix the bikes themselves. It seemed that before the recall came out Zero would send you a new BMS board if you had the shorting issue, but someone earlier in this thread mentioned that they weren't sending the repair kits for the recalls to end users directly at present.
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I see what you're getting at. I'm not sure if a recall would affect Zero's decision on whether or not to send replacement parts directly to consumers. It's a valid question.
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someone earlier in this thread mentioned that they weren't sending the repair kits for the recalls to end users directly.
Zero has a dealer service kit they send out. Kit has a net book with support software loaded and a number of custom interface cables.
When my board faulted they gave me the option of either bringing the bike to a Honda or Yamaha dealer (and they would send the support kit there, and I would be bikeless for probably a week) or to me directly, and I could swap the board.
If I had a nearby Zero dealer, the latter probably would not have been an option. My nearest dealer is in Atlanta (~180 miles away), getting the bike there would have involved significant expense.
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:D
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This is what the new BMS's will look like that dealers should be getting next week to perform the recalls. The whole board has better sealant and there is caulking at the 2 external ports. Just got it this morning and it's in and the bike is powered up and working great!
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Zero has a dealer service kit they send out. Kit has a net book with support software loaded and a number of custom interface cables.
When my board faulted they gave me the option of either bringing the bike to a Honda or Yamaha dealer (and they would send the support kit there, and I would be bikeless for probably a week) or to me directly, and I could swap the board.
If I had a nearby Zero dealer, the latter probably would not have been an option. My nearest dealer is in Atlanta (~180 miles away), getting the bike there would have involved significant expense.
Hmm. I assume you contacted Zero directly?
My dealer is also about 200 miles away, in Austin. I've hauled the bike there once already for a fork seal issue. I do have a pickup to transport the bike, but I have to arrange with the dealer to get it turned around in a day (which they graciously offered to do last time), take a day off work, and get it up there early (or go the night before and spend the night). Or I can bring it on a Saturday, leave it, and return again to pick it up, which is what I did last time. Either way it's not trivial, and is about $100-$200 in gas plus everything else (I have a free place to stay there, fortunately).
I'll probably take it up there again this time, since I've already been in contact with the dealer, but I'm thinking that in the future I might go the DIY route. Did you get to keep the netbook? :)
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I wish : p
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I never used the diagnostic kit. They offered to send it twice when it shut down on me on road trips, but I already knew it was the BMS getting wet so the computer was not necessary in my opinion because i knew each time I rode through heavy rain. I just took it out and dried it at a mcdonalds hand drier. I would say the BMS replacement is a home repair that could easily be done with a good set of instructions and 1 allen wrench and 1 phillips head screwdriver if you didn't want to drive 200 miles. I guess it all depends how comfortable you are using tools and repairing things. Did you do your own work on your previous gas motorcycles? If so this should be a breeze.
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I just took it out and dried it at a mcdonalds hand drier.
Dude, you're my hero :)
Yeah, I did do some work on my ICE bikes. I have enough tools, but my problem right now is no garage/shop. This, however, I could do in my living room. The fork seals, probably not, due to possible oil spillage.
Austin's fun to visit, so I don't really mind going all that much. I had an ulterior motive in that if I got to keep (or even use) the netbook/software/interfaces, I might be able to reprogram the bike to give me full torque/power in both sport and eco modes, with only the amount of regen changing between them. It would save me a little hacking, when I got around to doing it (though the hacking is arguably more fun). I'll probably talk to the guy at the dealer's about doing this. Maybe I can pique his interest :)
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Some related, but not identical, behavior I saw today. I pulled the bike from of a 72-degree house out into 80-degree, 95%-humidity outdoors. Mirrors immediately fogged up, and of course my next thought was, S&*t, BMS board" :) I pulled out onto the street, no problems, but at the first stop I noticed the regen braking to be choppy and weak in eco mode. This continued for the next several stops, but the bike never lost power. Finally, about a minute after the mirrors had defogged, I got smooth, normal regen at a stop. I suppose the condensation had evaporated from the electronics by then.
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Some related, but not identical, behavior I saw today. I pulled the bike from of a 72-degree house out into 80-degree, 95%-humidity outdoors. Mirrors immediately fogged up, and of course my next thought was, S&*t, BMS board" :) I pulled out onto the street, no problems, but at the first stop I noticed the regen braking to be choppy and weak in eco mode. This continued for the next several stops, but the bike never lost power. Finally, about a minute after the mirrors had defogged, I got smooth, normal regen at a stop. I suppose the condensation had evaporated from the electronics by then.
I think the choppy regen you were experiencing was probably due to the battery being fully charged, a protective measure indicating that the BMS is working, not failing. Regen can overcharge a battery without proper precautions.
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The choppy regen on a full battery happens with the XU too, every morning for the first couple of stop signs on my commute.
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Harlan is exactly right. Happens each and every time off a full charge for the few mile or so on the 2012 ZF9 also. Remember recouperating the momentum of the motorcycle is a crap load of amps all at once, and a 95% full battery starts to keep voltage constant but taper off amps until finally it's nothing.
Imagine filling a gallon jug with a garden hose at full blast. It works till it is almost full, but to top it off as full as possible you have to set the hose lower and lower till finally you'e collecting just a drop at a time. On a full charge you have to go down a few percent before the batteries even have a place to store the energy, especially that fast.
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Hmm, makes sense that regen would be disabled when the battery was fully charged.
But two things jump out at me: first, why choppy regen as opposed to just none or minimal, and second, why is this the first time I've seen it? The only difference about yesterday's ride was that the bike had been plugged in for the week it rained here.
Does it take over 9-10 hours to truly fully charge? My ride to work is maybe 10 miles round trip, and I often plug in while there.
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Hi Clic,
The BMS + the motor controller are the ones taking control here. As soon as the BMS senses the battery fully charged it "tells" to the controller that does not want any more "Amps" but at the same time it also tells to the controller that wants some "Amps" when the battery voltage has drop a little...which creates this "choppy" effect. Offthegrid described it in a ver good way with the jug filling.
Battery balancing -or charging up 100% of available capacity- could take more than 9 hours, besides that, the available capacity could change because of further factors -being one balancing- but also outside temperature variation.
Lithium chemistries love/perform better in warm weather ;D however they live longer when kept cold ???
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Got a recall notice for this today.
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Got a recall notice for this today.
Me too. Also for the brake switch. And I hope, before the summers out, that there's one more for the 'glitch'.
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I also explained this fully charged regen situation in my recent post titled; "A word to the wise about regen braking". It appears part way down on this 1st forum page.
Trikester
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Hi Clic,
The BMS + the motor controller are the ones taking control here. As soon as the BMS senses the battery fully charged it "tells" to the controller that does not want any more "Amps" but at the same time it also tells to the controller that wants some "Amps" when the battery voltage has drop a little...which creates this "choppy" effect. Offthegrid described it in a ver good way with the jug filling.
Yeah, but I would think it would have a bit more hysteresis, rather than the chattering effect I experienced.
Battery balancing -or charging up 100% of available capacity- could take more than 9 hours, besides that, the available capacity could change because of further factors -being one balancing- but also outside temperature variation.
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Obviously this is true. I didn't know it could take 2 or 3 days though.
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Yeah, but I would think it would have a bit more hysteresis, rather than the chattering effect I experienced.
That should be the way with a more sophisticated BMS/controller...In our case the computer system it avoids overcharge because of the high risk of destroying the cells (it is so easy to do so, believe me...and there is no way to bring them "back to life" properly, as it happens to other battery chemistries)
Yes, it can take that long, but practically what you get in additional watts after 15h or so is very low.