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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Jarrett on May 10, 2019, 06:11:48 AM
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I went and rode the SR/F a second time today with the intention of putting down a deposit and ended up deciding against getting it.
The first time I rode the SR/F, it was the pre-production model. I didn't know I was going to get to ride it, but I jumped on it when the offer was made. The pre-prod bike had no traction control, cruise control, etc. and felt pretty raw to ride. Lots of wheelies and rear tire spins.
Today, I made an appointment to go ride the production model SR/F. I got there and it was low on charge at 44%, so they plugged it into the wall at 110v. At that rate, it looked like it charges about as fast as my FX does, about 10% an hour.
While it was charging, I took their DS demo out for a spin. I really like the way the DS model is setup. Feels good to me ergonomically. But it accelerates really slowly from 0-40 or so compared to my FX, but around 45+ it kicks in some acceleration that my FX doesn't have all the way into the 80's. The suspension on the DS is a little jarring on pot holes, but its doable. Makes me want to check out a DSR some time, but no local dealers have them.
When I got back, the SR/F was at 56%, so I went to take it for a ride. First thing I tried to do was pair my phone with it using the next gen app and after multiple attempts, it didn't work. So I jumped on the bike and took off. First thing I noticed is moving between modes is a bit more difficult than on the older models. Now you have to hold the button down for a bit, then toggle left and right a bit and slowly find your mode. Since it was difficult, I just put it back on sport mode and left it there the entire ride.
The ergonomics of the bike just don't really work for me. They could be perfect for a sport bike rider, but for a guy coming from adventure, dual sport and dirt bikes, the leaning on the tank feeling along with the tucked feet didn't make me feel at home. I thought I'd get used to it though. The first thing I noticed on the bike is that the brakes are really strong. I almost dumped it at the first stop sign as it surprised me so much. Also, the suspension feels much better than any of the other Zero bikes I've ridden. Very smooth over pot holes and such. That surprised me as well. I thought I would get jarred by the sport bike suspension, but not the case.
Of course, the power is there. It feels like the FX in the 0-30 department, then way more power than the DS after that. It just pulls and pulls. I think the traction control system keeps it in check a bit because I was trying to spin tires and pop wheelies and just wasn't happening. It didn't feel intrusive at all, but it was much harder to do than on the pre-prod bike without traction control.
I turned on the cruise control as well. It was easy enough to set it initially. What I couldn't figure out was how to increase the speed and set it again at a higher speed. So I just turned it off. I didn't see a way to turn on the heated grips, so I didn't try.
The handling of the bike feels really sharp. It is the most precise feeling bike I've ever ridden. At little too much for me leaning over that 17" front wheel, but I suspect those that ride sport bikes will really dig it. I started with 56%, rode about 30 minutes and ended with 22%. I was surprised it went down that much. I was flogging it a bit though. Even at 27%, it pulled fairly hard to 97 mph, where I let off. It was fun ripping it through traffic on the highway. I'd guess lane splitting would be a blast on it, but not legal here.
Overall, it didn't have the raw power feel of the pre-prod bike, but turning off traction control might give it back. I did hear a story from the track day about the SR/F. Apparently, a guy was hammering his Triumph Street Triple 1050 WOT in the straight away at the track and one of the instructors on the SR/F came from behind and walked right by him before the next corner. It's got that kind of power apparently.
After 30 minutes on the bike, I was about ready to get off. Don't get me wrong, the bike is really cool for what is, but after 30 minutes of really wanting to like the bike and buy it, I just went with my gut knowing that I didn't want to spend $23k on what the SR/F had to offer. If I had a track membership or lived in NW Arkansas with miles of smooth, curvy roads, I might feel differently, but in my area there just aren't enough fun roads to make that ride position worth it for me, personally. And being limited to less than 100 miles it too much for the price for me.
I drove home a little dejected as I was really prepared to love the bike and put the deposit down. But I got home and took my FX for a spin and that bike really suits me, my riding style and my local roads well. I took down my beat up country roads, down gravel roads, through washed out muddy roads, back to the windy farm to market roads and leaned it over in the corners. Laughed as I ran it over chopped up roads at dangerous speeds and riding wheelies every time there was a little rise in the road. That bike makes me laugh out loud in my helmet repeatedly during the ride. I think I may already own the Zero that's right for me, just wished it went another 100 miles than it go on a charge. But I guess that's with any Zero.
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Nice review there. It is not uncommon for somebody's dream bike to be more like a nightmare on the very first test ride.
OTOH, there are some bikes that grow on us, that we don't like at first and then later becomes our favorite--at least for some rides.
I find my little Zero DS ZF 6.5 to be my most useful bike of all, which is not what I was expecting. I put the most miles on it--just not that much all at once! But it gets ridden almost every day unlike the rest of my bikes--or cars.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks for that review, really helpful.
An amateur reviewer on Zero's facebook page came away impressed that the SR/F is made for curvy mountain roads, that's where it will shine and for justify the expense. Mirrors your review.
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I hate to say it, but I have never test ridden any of the five electric motorcycle that I have owned before I bought them. I tend to just buy on faith that if it is electric it must be fun to ride - and a different and unique experience compared with an ICE motorcycle. ;)
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I am just waiting on some good reviews before I press forward. I will test drive one but I want to see some real world range tests.
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right now the only ICE bike i would consider instead for ease of use is a Honda with DCT but it doesnt look as fun to ride as the SR/F. On the opposite end it has incredible mileage, no range issues. Im still dealing with silent treatment waiting for the SR/F. The somewhat sporty position should be ok since I wouldn't be making big trips anyways.
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I didn't mean this to be a bad review, more of a perspective review.
For someone that likes streetfighter/sport type bikes and only need to go 100 miles between charges, this thing is fantastic. All the racers I've seen that have ridden it, loved it and gave it big thumbs up. I'm not a racer though.
Speaking of DCT bikes, I have some. I have the NC700X, Africa Twin and VFR1200X. It's true that none of those bikes are as quick as the SR/F with the VFR1200X being the closest, but the VFR has a higher top speed and its power doesn't wain as its fuel drops. So at mile 90, it might very well out accelerate a SR/F, but not at mile 1. I'd love to line them up and find out.
Honda used to make the VFR1200F in DCT. It makes 170hp and not sure how much torque. I suspect it would give the SR/F a run for its money and then pull away from it with authority when the SR/F got in the 120's. I suspect that's the most fun DCT bike out there.
Right now my main two bikes are my Honda VFR1200X DCT and my Zero FX. I'm hoping one day that Zero can produce a product that replaces the VFR in my garage, but its not today.
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The other thing to remember, the bike is a new model. Hasn't been tested in the field en-mass, and likely packs a ton of model-unique issues that will start popping up as soon as they start getting the mileage.
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The other thing to remember, the bike is a new model. Hasn't been tested in the field en-mass, and likely packs a ton of model-unique issues that will start popping up as soon as they start getting the mileage.
Personally, I would be more concerned about bugs in the new MMB system programming, than mechanical or power train glitches. Just get ready for updates. But at least you can get those installed in the comfort of your home - once you manage to get Bluetooth to recognize your bike, of course. ::)
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Personally, I would be more concerned about bugs in the new MMB system programming, than mechanical or power train glitches. Just get ready for updates. But at least you can get those installed in the comfort of your home - once you manage to get Bluetooth to recognize your bike, of course. ::)
Yes I am well expecting many updates at the beginning. There is too much new on this bike to expect all the bugs to be ironed out immediately. As long as the hardware is good and they work on perfecting the software, I would be happy. And now you don't even need to connect your phone being it gets firmware upgrades over cellular.
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The old app works easily with my FX. When I went to demo the FX, it connected right up to the demo bike and worked fine. At home, it connects every time I try it with my FX.
I did not have that experience with the SR/F. The new app did not play well with the SR/F demo bike. Like with the FX previously, I downloaded the next gen app and RTFM before I went up there and was prepared to connect it all up, tried three times powering everything on and off, and no dice. That was a bit of a bummer as I was hoping to use the ride tracking portion of the app, but no luck.
When I was riding the bike, there was a SOC on the right and left. Not sure why. The one on the right was the one I noticed first and paid attention to. It never budged from 56% for the first 10 minutes of the ride and I was thinking, "wow, this thing will really cover some miles on a charge."
Then after a bit, I happened to notice the SOC on the left and it was down to 41% and dropping faster than I expected it to. When I got back to the dealership, the one on the left was at 22% and the one on the right still showed 56%. I powered the bike off and back on and now both of the SOC's showed 22%. That was a bit of a head scratcher. That could have gotten me into trouble had I been planning a longer demo.
Also, the cruise control wasn't intuitive. I RTFM on it as well and thought I had the knowledge, but I struggled with it. It worked once, but I couldn't get it to work a second time. As mentioned in my earlier post, I struggled moving between the modes while riding it. I had to look away from the road for far too long to try and figure out how to move between modes. I ended up just abandoning that and leaving it in Sport mode. I couldn't even begin to figure out where the heated grip controls were, so I didn't bother.
I kinda have a feeling if the SR/F has issues, its going to be in those new electronics somewhere like that.
All that aside, the bike rode really well. Better than any other Zero I've ridden. If you just get on it and ride and don't futz with the new electronic stuff, its a killer bike. One really experienced rider told me that this bike felt like a major step in bridging the gap between previous Zero's and modern day sport bikes. He said this was the first one that felt like a real, modern sport bike to him and one he might opt to ride over other fast sport bikes in the market. That says a lot about it, I think.
Personally, I just need more mileage out of one before I drop that kind of coin on it. I think that new motor is going to run through the 14.4 battery with a quickness. At least it did for me during my demo ride. I think I did 30 miles or just a little under at probably 40 mph average and dropped 34% during the ride. Granted, I got on the highway and hammered it a couple of times. I'm guessing I could get 90-95 miles out of a full charge at those speeds.
If/when they come out with a "DSR/F" that can do 150+ miles at 40+ mph average, I'm going to get really interested. I still want to go check out a DSR though. With a power tank, it might serve me well today.
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It makes me wonder if Zero rushed the SR/F to the market a little quicker than they planned. With the Livewire and the Strike coming in the next few months, they wanted to get the SR/F to the market first. I mean this is listed as a 2020 model. Maybe original plan was to release it later in the year with the other 2020 models. Maybe they spent a lot of time testing the new hardware but the software and electronics is still a work in progress. The good thing is software can be fixed a lot more easily than hardware. I would rather get the bike now during riding season with minor bugs (nothing that affects the riding) than getting a virtually bug free bike in August/September. I just would hope if the cellular features don't work as described, Zero extends the free period for 2 years from when they have it working correctly. This is all just speculation of course.
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Personally, I would be more concerned about bugs in the new MMB system programming, than mechanical or power train glitches. Just get ready for updates. But at least you can get those installed in the comfort of your home - once you manage to get Bluetooth to recognize your bike, of course. ::)
I bought my DS in January 2014. Got a recall letter three months later (and 3000 miles on ODO by then) regarding a faulty motor. Took the bike to the dealership for diagnostics, and sure enough mine was defective. If you don't remember, some guy (in Australia I think) was riding on a track and motor locked up at 80+ MPH, leading to a crash.
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Personally, I just need more mileage out of one before I drop that kind of coin on it. I think that new motor is going to run through the 14.4 battery with a quickness. At least it did for me during my demo ride. I think I did 30 miles or just a little under at probably 40 mph average and dropped 34% during the ride. Granted, I got on the highway and hammered it a couple of times. I'm guessing I could get 90-95 miles out of a full charge at those speeds.
I think you make a very good point about how the new motor will empty the 14.4 battery pack. I have the 14.4 in my 2014DS with a motor that produces half the power and torque of the SRF. I wouldn't count on riding it more than 60-70 miles on the twisties. That's with an average speed of 35-40mph, keeping off long stretches of fast roads and with a spirited riding style. The SRF is at least 35kg heavier than my DS too. I just don't see how people keep quoting range figures of around 100 miles. The whole point of the SRF is to have some proper fun on it. To make the most of all that torque and extra power. I'm not sure I'd expect to get more than 50 miles from a full charge on the SRF. What I mean is that I'd feel comfortable riding an SRF hard for 50 miles and expect to have 10-20% left. I feel that's a minimum contingency to allow for unfavourable winds etc.
That's not an everyday ride for me though. I don't always feel I have to be going as fast as conditions allow. I get the feeling that many Zero riders are pretty sensible and so 80 miles or so would be easily achievable, even when riding with a bit of sparkle.
I happen to have a fifty mile route that's 80% country roads. The other 20% is in heavily restricted areas with 30-40mph speed limits. There are lots of villages in Hertfordshire! If I ride my DS as hard as I can, I'll get home with about 30% SoC. The motor frequently goes into thermal management, so I don't get to use as much power as I'd like. The villages are handy to let the motor cool down.
I know an SRF would let me ride much harder; IPM motor, better cooling and so on. The SRF is probably more efficient than my DS with its riding position and slicker tyres. Even so, I'm certain I could get very close to emptying its battery on my 50 mile route. That's still around 1hr 15m of riding, so perfect for a quick blast.
To put things in another perspective, I ended up tagging onto a group ride with a local bike club a few weeks ago. I was on my CB1000R and they were riding fast. I could keep up but I was riding just about as fast as I feel safe to. There's absolutely no way I would have been able to keep up with the other riders on my DS. Many of them were riding sports bikes, hard. They all had at least 120hp and above. I'm quite certain an SRF could keep up for all but the longest stretches of road, where the speeds got very silly, but for how long? This was still all on country roads, but mostly faster ones than my 50 mile route. It's in a different league of riding altogether. It made me realise that I've developed my 50 mile route whilst riding my DS and it is a really enjoyable route, well suited for the bike. Not so much for sports bikes though, which is what the SRF is - albeit in a naked form. What kind of range could I expect from an SRF keeping up with sports bikes on fast roads where speeds often hit 100mph or so...? Throttles are pinned wide open at every opportunity and a lot of energy gets dumped into friction brakes at each corner. I guess the ultimate test would be to take an SRF to a track and see how many miles to empty. 30 maybe? I'd be very surprised if an SRF will do more than 50 miles per charge when used on the road to its full potential.
I hate to say this, but range and charging times are so important that they should never be overlooked. It doesn't matter how good a bike is if you can't use it as much as you'd like due to technical limitations. It sounds like you've made the right decision for you, Jarrett.
By the way, I had a VFR 1200FD for a few months. I loved the engine and the DCT transmission. The weight of the bike lets it down a bit in the handling department, but it is great for a sports tourer.
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I'd like to add that I really don't want to put anyone off buying an SRF. Hopefully you're all very experienced with your own requirements and I'm just helping by illustrating how we can easily be misled by range figures, even if those range figures can be reproduced in equivalent conditions.
To give my last post a little balance, my 2014DS was my only motorcycle for over two and a half years until last September. I had an opportunity to get the CB1000R and yearned to be able to go for longer rides. The extra power and better handling appealed too of course, but I was also seriously thinking about upgrading to an SR or DSR at the time.
I have a five year old son and a couple of teenagers, so in reality I don't get many opportunities to go for longer rides. I've only done a couple of day long rides on the Honda since I've had it. It's not just about time either, riding 200 miles can easily burn through £25-30 of petrol. Even doing shorter runs can get the fuel bill adding up quickly. I know the cost of petrol doesn't seem to bother a lot of bikers, but it puts me off a bit. It shouldn't, really, and that's my hangup. Spoilt by my DS perhaps?
So has buying the Honda been a bit like buying a few books to read? We often buy books because we like to think we'll have the time to read them, but don't.
The SRF wasn't around last summer, it doesn't cost much more than an SR and yet it's a giant leap forward. Would the lack of range have stopped me from trading in my DS for an SRF instead of buying the Honda? Probably not, considering I was mostly happy with the DS and its fit with my lifestyle for well over two years. I've even thought about trading in my DS and the Honda for an SRF, but circumstances don't permit that right now.
Confusing? I probably sound like I'm contradicting myself. It can be hard to know what you really want and what your actual requirements are... Some things to think about at least?
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So do we know if their range numbers are with the bike in Eco more or Standard mode?
As for country roads, what speeds do you put those down as ? In my are they are mostly 45/55 which means many do 55/70 on them. My route isn't fifty miles, its near eighty with another near one hundred or so, and to be honest a 21k motorcycle should be able to do more than that easily without worry about the charge. I may be able to reroute if I can find appropriate chargers and would only go with the Premium for the 6kWh charger. I kept passing on Zero motorcycles for range/cost/style and to be honest depending on reviews I may need to keep doing that. The SR/F is the first one with style to pique my interest but we are still dealing with Leaf style battery and engine systems. Plus another question, in the few reviews I have watched there is a lot of drive train noise and it doesn't sound like the belt. Are they that noisy or is that on purpose ?
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As for realistic values you will probably have to wait for the first customer bikes or ask a dealer that tested that in one go. Best thing would be to do a test drive and pick the commuting route. The pre-production and probably the early firmwares are most likely not as efficient as later versions, so most likely there's less range. But considering it has the same battery as the SR 14.4 but is heavier and has more power, i would aim for something just below the SR range in similar conditions. Range claims on the homepage are also slightly under the claims for the SR 14.4. So theoretically it should be possible but will depend a lot on speed and riding style.
If you want to rely on it under every condition you should probably look for something else or consider the charge tank upgrade.
The louder belt noise should be normal since it is a wider belt (20mm). Also you have a bigger and stronger motor and bigger tires, there's also noise coming from those...
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I guess the ultimate test would be to take an SRF to a track and see how many miles to empty. 30 maybe? I'd be very surprised if an SRF will do more than 50 miles per charge when used on the road to its full potential.
Last Monday, I went to a track day and the SR/F was there. I didn't keep track of how many times it was out there on the track, but the owner said maybe 4 sessions which were 30 minutes long. I know of at least 2 people that rode it, maybe more. Not sure if they did the whole sessions or not. I just can't imagine the SR/F could do 4 full 30 minute sessions on a charge though.
When I went to demo the bike earlier this week, I showed up and it had 44% charge. The dealer said they had not charged it since the track day. So, if that is accurate then however many times it went around the track that day, it burned 56% off.
I did hear them say that one of the racer instructors was on it last (and he was blowing past everyone apparently) and it dropped in power on him during the ride. He brought it back in at that point. That's when people lost interest in riding it at the track day, because they knew it was no longer giving all the goods so no one wanted to ride it again. I guess under 50%, it doesn't give you full power anymore. I find that to be similar to my FX as well.
I could imagine the SR/F being a fun bike for a track day IF there was L2 charging available there, which there is not at this track, at this time. If it were, you could start at 100%, go run it like a mad man, come in and let it charge under it was your turn again, etc. Until they get the whole 12Kw L2 charging thing more readily available, that might be tough to come by though.
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I guess the ultimate test would be to take an SRF to a track and see how many miles to empty. 30 maybe? I'd be very surprised if an SRF will do more than 50 miles per charge when used on the road to its full potential.
Last Monday, I went to a track day and the SR/F was there. I didn't keep track of how many times it was out there on the track, but the owner said maybe 4 sessions which were 30 minutes long. I know of at least 2 people that rode it, maybe more. Not sure if they did the whole sessions or not. I just can't imagine the SR/F could do 4 full 30 minute sessions on a charge though.
When I went to demo the bike earlier this week, I showed up and it had 44% charge. The dealer said they had not charged it since the track day. So, if that is accurate then however many times it went around the track that day, it burned 56% off.
I did hear them say that one of the racer instructors was on it last (and he was blowing past everyone apparently) and it dropped in power on him during the ride. He brought it back in at that point. That's when people lost interest in riding it at the track day, because they knew it was no longer giving all the goods so no one wanted to ride it again. I guess under 50%, it doesn't give you full power anymore. I find that to be similar to my FX as well.
I could imagine the SR/F being a fun bike for a track day IF there was L2 charging available there, which there is not at this track, at this time. If it were, you could start at 100%, go run it like a mad man, come in and let it charge under it was your turn again, etc. Until they get the whole 12Kw L2 charging thing more readily available, that might be tough to come by though.
My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.
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I have tried comparing sport, eco and my coasting custom programming while riding my two S models during the past 5 years over the same route and at the same speeds. I have noticed virtually no difference in range while my bike was in any of the different programs. Your throttle hand is the only thing you need to provide the maximum range, not the bike's programming that adjusts top speed, regen and throttle progression.
However, I will comment that on my rides, my experience has been that using a custom program with no regen with the throttle closed and maximum regen when braking, gives the best range - maybe by about 2 or 3%, compared with "eco" or "sport".
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I have tried comparing sport, eco and my coasting custom programming while riding my two S models during the past 5 years over the same route and at the same speeds. I have noticed virtually no difference in range while my bike was in any of the different programs. Your throttle hand is the only thing you need to provide the maximum range, not the bike's programming that adjusts top speed, regen and throttle progression.
I've noticed the same in my first 1,000 miles with my FX. It doesn't really matter what mode I'm, just how much throttle I'm using. Which is pretty much all of it, all the time unless I have a mileage target I'm trying to hit. So I ride in Sport mode on pavement and Eco or Custom mode off pavement.
I'm sure if you gently rode the SR/F around at 31 mph, it would go a long way too, but who wants to do that?
I REALLY wish the DSR had traction control as I think I might enjoy a DSR with a Power Tank. Looks like it will go about 118 miles on a charge, which is about double what my FX will do. But they are still $19,000. But it's hard to find a (comfortable) bike with over 100 ft-lbs. of torque going for much less really. I just suspect that the sudden torque of the R models without traction control might bite me one day when I lost focus for a second. I do like to power out of corners and that seems like a dangerous option on the DSR.
Although, I've spent time on a SR/F with no traction control and didn't go down. Maybe I'm overthinking it.
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The old app works easily with my FX. When I went to demo the FX, it connected right up to the demo bike and worked fine. At home, it connects every time I try it with my FX.
I did not have that experience with the SR/F. The new app did not play well with the SR/F demo bike. Like with the FX previously, I downloaded the next gen app and RTFM before I went up there and was prepared to connect it all up, tried three times powering everything on and off, and no dice. That was a bit of a bummer as I was hoping to use the ride tracking portion of the app, but no luck.
So I noticed the new app was updated yesterday at least on Android. They list its a fix for bugs and performance issues. Hopefully they have ironed out a lot of the issues you were having. I guess this is one good thing comes from the delivery delay. With more demos out there they are testing the bike in real world usage and hopefully fixing issues before they ship to customers. i still expect small issues with the bike. I don't mind if they are software related and don;t really effect rideability. This can always be updated by an OTA firmware. Hardware issues where you have to bring back to the dealer and wait months to get them fixed will be a killer for the new bike.
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Jarrett, I am curious to know whether or not you've had a chance to ride any of the Energica bikes and, if so, how they compared to your brief SR/F experience.
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I REALLY wish the DSR had traction control as I think I might enjoy a DSR with a Power Tank. Looks like it will go about 118 miles on a charge, which is about double what my FX will do. But they are still $19,000. But it's hard to find a (comfortable) bike with over 100 ft-lbs. of torque going for much less really. I just suspect that the sudden torque of the R models without traction control might bite me one day when I lost focus for a second. I do like to power out of corners and that seems like a dangerous option on the DSR.
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The dsr doesn't need a power tank to do 118 miles city. I consistently get 130 miles doing averaging 35-40mph. I've never ridden a bike with traction control either so I don't need it. Maybe when I was young and stupid, traction control would have prevented a few wreck, but I've learned and don't feel I need it.
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I've never ridden a bike with traction control either so I don't need it. Maybe when I was young and stupid, traction control would have prevented a few wreck, but I've learned and don't feel I need it.
I hear this type of thinking a lot. Whenever you discuss a type of safety feature, there is someone that doesn't "need it". Whether it is ABS, traction control or motorcycle helmets, there is always someone who doesn't need them. I guess we all don't really "need them". If I was the only one on the road and it was just me and the asphalt, I would not need any of this. The way I look at it, as a motorcycle rider I have a whole road full of people out to kill me, intentionally or not. I will take any advantages I can to make sure I live to ride another day. So we may not normally need any of these safety features but the day the little old lady takes a left crossing in front of us and our tires find the loose gravel in the road, I will be glad to have them all.
Now this is of course taking about street riding which the SR/F is geared toward. Off road riding, I can see where traction control and abs maybe more a detriment than help.
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Regarding mode and range, my experience matches Richard’s and others: mode don’t matter. And I’ll add that the regen coasting does almost nothing and regen braking very little in terms of range. I’ve coasted downhill on 15% grades that last 3 miles and not significantly changed SOC, maybe 1/2 percent or less on a 7.2 S.
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My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.
My SR starts limiting power at about 60% SOC. It may not be noticable for you, but I am sure yours does, too.
Have a look at the MBB logs:
- at 58% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 671 A (97%), MinCell: 3642mV, MaxPackTemp: 22C"
- at 55% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 611 A (92%), MinCell: 3597mV, MaxPackTemp: 23C"
- at 50% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 577 A (88%), MinCell: 3611mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
- at 45% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 529 A (80%), MinCell: 3571mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
- at 30% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 476 A (68%), MinCell: 3518mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C"
- at 20% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 469 A (67%), MinCell: 3548mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C"
- at 10% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 373 A (54%), MinCell: 3464mV, MaxPackTemp: 41C"
You may not notice this, if you are not trying to use full power, but in general the bike is starting to reduce power from about 60% SOC, first only slightly, but in the end you only have about half the power you get when fully charged.
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My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.
My SR starts limiting power at about 60% SOC. It may not be noticable for you, but I am sure yours does, too.
Have a look at the MBB logs:
- at 58% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 671 A (97%), MinCell: 3642mV, MaxPackTemp: 22C"
- at 55% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 611 A (92%), MinCell: 3597mV, MaxPackTemp: 23C"
- at 50% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 577 A (88%), MinCell: 3611mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
- at 45% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 529 A (80%), MinCell: 3571mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
- at 30% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 476 A (68%), MinCell: 3518mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C"
- at 20% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 469 A (67%), MinCell: 3548mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C"
- at 10% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited 373 A (54%), MinCell: 3464mV, MaxPackTemp: 41C"
You may not notice this, if you are not trying to use full power, but in general the bike is starting to reduce power from about 60% SOC, first only slightly, but in the end you only have about half the power you get when fully charged.
Yeah, you're probably right. I do 99% city i just dont notice it much. Don't need to give it full throttle often.
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Jarrett, I am curious to know whether or not you've had a chance to ride any of the Energica bikes and, if so, how they compared to your brief SR/F experience.
I totally missed this. I haven't ridden an Energica bike. I thought about jumping on an Esse Esse 9 (I think that's the name) while I was demoing a DSR, but I passed on it after I heard it had a smaller battery than the DSR and less range. I didn't want to fall in love with the torque and then justify the little range to myself. Seems like a really cool bike though.
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I totally missed this. I haven't ridden an Energica bike. I thought about jumping on an Esse Esse 9 (I think that's the name) while I was demoing a DSR, but I passed on it after I heard it had a smaller battery than the DSR and less range. I didn't want to fall in love with the torque and then justify the little range to myself. Seems like a really cool bike though.
They're similar battery capacities, actually. Zero's marketing number is 14.4kWh which turns into 11.62kWh nominal. Energica's nominal listing is 11.7kWh.
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They're similar battery capacities, actually. Zero's marketing number is 14.4kWh which turns into 11.62kWh nominal. Energica's nominal listing is 11.7kWh.
Doh! Tricked by Zero marketing again.
If they had a DS type model, I would have been much more interested.
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Very bummed about it but I also pulled my deposit after a test ride today.
Effortless power is definitely a perfect slogan for SR/F. Its a noticeable step up in power. Thanks to the larger tire profile, bike also feels more planted, less nervous over uneven pavement. Break feel and modulation is also significantly improved. Suspension still feels a bit gummy to me but it could be improved with additional tweaking. Dash is nice and bright and works great in all lighting conditions. And that's about where the pros end for me.
Before my test ride I did the same route I was planning to take on my 2018 SR for comparison. I rode both in sport mode, at the same pace, same temperature/weather conditions, etc. SR/F used around 27% more battery. I did the same route again after. Even more aggressively and it still used significantly less battery than SR/F. First red flag. Also noticed a lot more regen breaking on SR/F's sport mode by default in comparison to my bike. But I didn't mind that. Plenty of custom modes available to create a desired setup.
Second issue I had was ergonomics. I just couldn't get comfortable on it. Even though I'm only 5'10" all Zeros always felt a bit low for me. It's just what I got used to I guess. SR/F felt even more so. I wished the seat was at least 2" higher. To add to that, bike also felt quite cramped. Also out of habit I always ride on the balls of my feet so that only made things worse. I had to stretch my legs several times during the ride because they were falling asleep. Seat also felt like there are two potential positions on it - closer to the 'tank' resulting in a more upright position and further back, with the butt against the pillion seat, requiring more of a reach towards the handlebars. Neither one felt quite right but I settled on the former.
Mode switch control is also in an awkward position. It's larger than the turn signal control and it actually has a more positive feedback than the turn signal control so I often found myself hitting the mode switch instead of turn signals. Even when I hit the turn signal correctly I often had to look down because there is no positive notch/click/haptic feedback/anything indicating that the signal is engaged. I personally think it's a mistake to put similarly activated controls on the same hand and then make the less important one larger and better feeling. But, that's just me.
Another thing that concerned me was design and placement of the charge port housing and the bottom air inlet. I live in a pacific north west and ride all year round. At least half of that time is spent riding in wet conditions. Charge port housing looks like a water collection dish to me. While storage compartment hatch has a rubber seal around it, charge port only has a plastic insert that would not prevent water from coming in. Even if that amount of water was minuscule there is still no place for it to run off, no drainage. So you'd literally have to wait for it to evaporate. Not to mention it's one of the worst possible places to have any amount of water collecting for any amount of time. Issue with the bottom air inlet is similar. In wet conditions front tire will throw a lot of water into it. I know they moved the chargers on top of the battery this time but controller is now sitting on the bottom. I hope it's water ingress rating is adequate for that placement.
I also noticed quite pronounced vibration at lower speeds that I could only assume comes from the belt. Whether it's a sizing or tension issue I'm not sure. But like I said it's only noticeable below 30. Also, high voltage relay chewbacca groan it considerably louder too.
I really wanted this bike but I'll be sticking with my SR for the time being.
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I am in the market for another expensive bike.
But why would I buy a SR/F?
If I want power, the answer is obviously a liter bike. They are WAY faster than a SR/F, and generally less expensive. Even a 600 will out drag a SR/F. What's the point of the power if you can't beat out other bikes except off the stoplight when you catch the rider unawares?
If I want to tour, electric is obviously out even with "fast" charging. Really, who wants to sit around for an hour every hundred miles? Naked bikes suck at touring anyway. I'm thinking about one of those big BMWs, but don't want to deal with the inevitable warranty repairs on all that luxury stuff...
If I want a sweet, quiet, electric machine that is useful and zips me anywhere around town...well I already have that, it's a Zero FXS.
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Before my test ride I did the same route I was planning to take on my 2018 SR for comparison. I rode both in sport mode, at the same pace, same temperature/weather conditions, etc. SR/F used around 27% more battery. I did the same route again after. Even more aggressively and it still used significantly less battery than SR/F.
I thought it was eating up power pretty quickly when I demo'ed it.
I wondered if it was just a fluke for me, but sounds like a feature.
Bummer, I really wanted to buy one too. I ended up ordering a DSR with a Power Tank. Not as much performance, but hopefully a good bit more range.
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I REALLY wish the DSR had traction control as I think I might enjoy a DSR with a Power Tank. Looks like it will go about 118 miles on a charge, which is about double what my FX will do. But they are still $19,000.
Dude, think about a used bike. I got a 2018 SR with power tank and ~3K miles for $13K. This is my second Zero. First was the same bike, new, 2016. My insurance settlement for the crashed 2016 (driver ran red light) paid for the 2018. I've seen a few comparable used Zeros at comparable prices. While I like buying new (don't we all?) I've no regrets.
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I guess you have lots of used Zeros in your area. I don't.
Hey, how does the SR compare in size/ergonomics to the CB500X?
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I guess you have lots of used Zeros in your area. I don't.
Hey, how does the SR compare in size/ergonomics to the CB500X?
You can also buy used and have it shipped from anywhere in the country for about $500 or less via uship.com. Just make sure transporter has commercial cargo insurance. I transported 100's of used bikes thru uship for a few years. Very popular option.
I bought my used 2017 dsr with 1200 miles a year ago for $11,000 and absolutely love it.
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If I want power, the answer is obviously a liter bike. They are WAY faster than a SR/F, and generally less expensive. Even a 600 will out drag a SR/F. What's the point of the power if you can't beat out other bikes except off the stoplight when you catch the rider unawares?
Since the SR/F has no clutch to slow the bike down, I wonder if that will be reality or just a spec.
FWIW, even my little Zero DS ZF 6.5 feels like it has a lot more guts than my Kaw 650.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I am in the market for another expensive bike.
But why would I buy a SR/F?
If I want power, the answer is obviously a liter bike.
If you can, buy both! I use my ICE bikes on most longer trips. I use my electric bikes for shorter trips . . . .
And . . . .
I put more miles on my two Zeros than I have with my seven ICE bikes combined! I ride the Zeros the most of all my bikes by far. Almost every day I ride a Zero. It's not that often where I wanna go is out of the range of an E-bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If you can, buy both! I use my ICE bikes on most longer trips. I use my electric bikes for shorter trips . . . .
And . . . .
I put more miles on my two Zeros than I have with my seven ICE bikes combined! I ride the Zeros the most of all my bikes by far. Almost every day I ride a Zero. It's not that often where I wanna go is out of the range of an E-bike.
I'm finding the same so far. I've got 3 ICE bikes in the garage and one Zero FX. The Zero FX gets ridden unless it can't make the trip, so the ICE bikes sit a lot these days. Now with the DSR+PT coming, I suspect the ICE bikes are going to be sitting even longer than before.
I like riding long miles, but its usually a rare event that I get to. If the DSR+PT can make 130 miles per charge, I suspect it will get 90% of my rides.
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I'm finding the same so far. I've got 3 ICE bikes in the garage and one Zero FX. The Zero FX gets ridden unless it can't make the trip, so the ICE bikes sit a lot these days. Now with the DSR+PT coming, I suspect the ICE bikes are going to be sitting even longer than before.
I like riding long miles, but its usually a rare event that I get to. If the DSR+PT can make 130 miles per charge, I suspect it will get 90% of my rides.
The average male in the USA drives around 45 miles per day. Even my Zero DS ZF 6.5 can do that!
For the statistics on how much we drive, see here. (https://www.autogravity.com/autogravitas/money/whats-average-miles-driven-per-year-car-lease-guide)
-Don- Reno, NV
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I like riding long miles, but its usually a rare event that I get to. If the DSR+PT can make 130 miles per charge, I suspect it will get 90% of my rides.
The average male in the USA drives around 45 miles per day. Even my Zero DS ZF 6.5 can do that!
For the statistics on how much we drive, see here. (https://www.autogravity.com/autogravitas/money/whats-average-miles-driven-per-year-car-lease-guide)
-Don- Reno, NV
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I won't justify a purchase by my commute, I have a TM3 which I am more than happy with and it pretty much eliminated even my desire for a convertible because of the glass roof and that all convertibles that I like as gas powered :P. Still hasn't ruined my desire for a good old fashioned twin.
I originally was interested in the Zero because I like the technology but its not ready for rides i like to do solo and not at all with rides I do with friends. I have two circuits I like to solo ride but both are very much edge cases in mileage and I don't care to restrict myself, the rides with friends can be full day affairs and no EV motorcycle can do that.
So I am still waiting for authoritative reviews on what the SR/F range actually is
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I think they should have basically copied the Honda NC750X, even with comparable power, folks that own the Honda don't complain about any lack of power, this will increase range for the ham fisted riders like me.
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Today, I went to Eurocycles in Reno which is the local Zero dealer. They have a SR/F. Not for sale, demo model of course. Nice looking bike. I was going to go for a test ride, but here is what happened. As soon as it is turned on, the horn sounds. Turn key off and on again and then no horn at all. I mean then the horn button will not work. Because of this, they would not let me ride it.
But in this bike, seems the horn is loud enough unlike the other Zeros where the horn must be changed (as is often the case with new bikes).
Also, how does one turn off the heated grips? They were stuck on and nobody there could find a way to turn them off. So what is the procedure for turning the heated grips off and on, as no switch is labeled as such that we could fine.
I get the feeling this bike will have some bugs as do most new year models.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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I think they should have basically copied the Honda NC750X, even with comparable power, folks that own the Honda don't complain about any lack of power, this will increase range for the ham fisted riders like me.
FYI The DSR has more power than the Honda NC750X already, but it has the same range per kWh as the SR/F (stock, anyway).
Time will tell if modifications to an SR/F or same-platform model yield significant range gains.
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Also, how does one turn off the heated grips? They were stuck on and nobody there could find a way to turn them off. So what is the procedure for turning the heated grips off and on, as no switch is labeled as such that we could fine.
I get the feeling this bike will have some bugs as do most new year models.
The heated grips are software-controlled through the 4-way toggle switch on the left handlebar. The Owner's Manual describes how to do it better than I can explain, and I think it's one of those interaction mechanisms that has to be practiced into muscle memory to work well.
I agree that the SR/F model will likely have teething issues with the new systems, but I'll reiterate that the platform-level changes should make this bike easier and faster to service than prior models (aside from the time to get replacement parts).
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The heated grips are software-controlled through the 4-way toggle switch on the left handlebar. The Owner's Manual describes how to do it better than I can explain, and I think it's one of those interaction mechanisms that has to be practiced into muscle memory to work well.
That was my guess, but no matter what I did with that switch, I could not get the heated grip icon to go away and I could still feel the heat on my hands.
I will probably be able to go on a test ride the next time I am there. Their main Zero guy was not working today, but should be back by the end of the week.
I like all the charge cables that come with the bike and the storage space it has in the fake tank, where these cables are located. I was told that they have the 12KW charger on this bike.
If things worked out better today, I could have been riding that bike home if they could sell it to me. I was surprised that they even had the SR/F there. There is still a fairly good chance I will end up with one. Looks like it will be the perfect bike for me to go between my Auburn and Reno homes. I can charge at the summit, which is half way.
I really went there to see if my DS ZF 6.5 could get the MBB firmware update, but even for that, I had to schedule an appointment.
BTW, do you know if they have saddlebags and a travel trunk available for the SR/F?
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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When I exchanged emails with Zero a couple of weeks ago they said hard luggage (side and top cases) would be later this year.
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I scrolled through a few menus as well and didn't see grip warmers listed.
I'm sure its there, I just didn't spend time looking for it. I feel like there are going to be gremlins in the new tech on the bike.
Did someone compare the DSR to the NC750X performance wise? I'm sure its no comparison. I think a DS would run off and leave the NC750X as well.
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They're similar battery capacities, actually. Zero's marketing number is 14.4kWh which turns into 11.62kWh nominal. Energica's nominal listing is 11.7kWh.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-srf/ lists 12.6kWh nominal.
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I scrolled through a few menus as well and didn't see grip warmers listed.
I'm sure its there, I just didn't spend time looking for it. I feel like there are going to be gremlins in the new tech on the bike.
I see the Owner's Manual here (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2020/2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF.pdf) gives the instructions for the heated grips on page 3-12. I think the SR/F I looked at had some serious bugs, as I could not even get to the menus and several others there could not figure it out there either. I figure it cannot be that user unfriendly so there was probably something wrong with the bike besides the horn.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The demo I rode froze a couple of times when I got into the menu and I had to power the bike off/on to get everything going again. After that, I quit messing with the dash and just focused on the ride, which was a blast.
I'm starting to suspect that something has gone wrong with the SR/F's and that's why no one is seeing any. My theory is Zero is scrambling to fix something before sending out the prod bikes. I could be completely wrong, but looking back through everything that has happened so far (demo bugs, ever shifting delivery dates, owner emails, gift kits, etc.) it is starting to look that way.
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I scrolled through a few menus as well and didn't see grip warmers listed.
I'm sure its there, I just didn't spend time looking for it. I feel like there are going to be gremlins in the new tech on the bike.
Did someone compare the DSR to the NC750X performance wise? I'm sure its no comparison. I think a DS would run off and leave the NC750X as well.
I did own and sold a 2015 DS and now have NC750 X DCT. What would you like to know?
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I've got a NC700X and an FX and have ridden the DS, DSR and SR/F. I don't have any questions.
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Ah, sorry. I think I misunderstood.
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I guess you have lots of used Zeros in your area. I don't.
Hey, how does the SR compare in size/ergonomics to the CB500X?
"I guess you have lots of used Zeros in your area. I don't."
Before I found the local bike I found something similar 1500 miles away, and was prepared to buy and have it shipped. Of course, you have to trust the seller, or take a weekend off to fly/drive to actually see the bike. (I thought the bike was a good enough deal that I'd been willing to spend up to a grand to fly out and check the bike in person before buying.)
SR and CB500X are such different bikes that they're hard to compare. I bought the 500X for camping -- not necessarily long distance touring, but because there aren't any charging stations (that I know of) in national forests. Though I've also ridden the 500X 700 miles (each way) from northern CA to Oregon. Ergonomics, on the CB500X you sit much more upright. I know some riders don't like the "sport" position of the SR. This has never bothered me at all -- but I spend at least as many miles on a bicycle as I do on either of my motos, so for me the upright position on the 500X seems a bit un-natural. (Also there's that annoying clutch thingy.)
Finally, I have these 37L side cases on the 500X: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/givi-trekker-outback-37-liter-side-cases which are totally bad-a*s. Almost finally, I can carry my bicycle on the 500X ( https://2x2cycles.com/ ). I was told (on this forum or some other) these racks are now available for Zeros -- but I'm skeptical that the Zero racks are beefy enough.
I'm eagerly awaiting the next generation of SR/Fs -- one with a fairing (increase mileage by at least 20%), and/or break-through in battery technology, and/or fast charging. I also want a pet unicorn.
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Pet unicorns sound like fun. ;D