ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Lightning => Topic started by: enaef on March 27, 2020, 03:20:16 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOi5-A6VQUw
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Did Lightning really think that delivering a bike that wasn't even close to the claimed specs wasn't going to get them bad press? It isn't the owner fault at all, its Lightnings. You buy a bike based on the specs and that is what you expect to get. Unfortunately the bike wasn't even close the specs Lightning claimed. The real question here is why on earth would Lightning ever deliver a bike like that? Knowing at some point it would have to be sent back and all of that rework will reduce or eliminate any profit Lightning would have made on this bike. Not a good business model at all. We can only wonder how many other Strikes are out there in this same condition and how many will need to get shipped back to Lightning. And who pays for the shipping costs? I realize the multiple delays in delivery really sucked for the owner in this case. I had one of the first Zero's on order and Zero did the same thing, one delay after another. I reached a point where I had enough and I canceled my order. But as far as I know when Zero finally got around to delivering their bikes they met the specs Zero had advertised. Zero survived all of that and has grown a lot since those early days. But the man who gave Zero life is no longer there and was pushed out many years ago now. Not unusual in the business world. I think the same applies to Lightning. Richard may have brought Lightning to life and there is no question he knows how to design a truly awesome electric motorcycle. But I think it is his lack of business savvy that will keep Lightning from reaching its full potential. When Lightning first broke news of the Strike it really got the motorcycle world excited. But it is really sad to see what all of that has turned into.
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Stories like this reinforce my belief and practice to NEVER buy a first year model, and if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. I'm interested now in seeing how FUELL does with their Fllow model when it eventually ships. I suspect it WILL match its advertised specifications. I'm confident that even though they are a brand new company, they will get it right. Reports I've been reading of the eBike they are shipping (the Flluid) have been universally positive. I'll just let others buy the first year model before I make any decision of my own.
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Stories like this reinforce my belief and practice to NEVER buy a first year model, and if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. I'm interested now in seeing how FUELL does with their Fllow model when it eventually ships. I suspect it WILL match its advertised specifications. I'm confident that even though they are a brand new company, they will get it right. Reports I've been reading of the eBike they are shipping (the Flluid) have been universally positive. I'll just let others buy the first year model before I make any decision of my own.
+ 1. I learned the rule of never buying (in my case) a new BMW model the first year. Although I have done it several times, it never seemed to work out all that well. ::) And then there was my experience with the purchase of two (in 2009) Electric Motorsport GPR-S bikes. An experience I will never forget. >:(
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They should not have let him have that bike.
Maybe and I mean a huge maybe letting someone with electric motorcycle experience test ride it around and give much needed feedback.
To me this move just screams that Lightning needs money and put this guy at risk to get the other $10k.
I still hope for improvements but in a post virus world I don't think the money will get thrown around to unproven ventures.
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We know there were delays on parts (there still are) so imagine the company came to you, someone who put down $10k to reserve a Strike, and asked if you wanted a bike to ride while you waited. It wouldn't have the specs you ordered, but would be upgraded when parts come in. Would you turn it down to keep waiting, or would you take a bike?
I'm in a situation where I can't ship a bike back across the world to have the battery swapped, so I chose to wait... but I think it's a cool option to have for those who live locally and would rather ride an electric motorcycle NOW than continue to wait.
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Sorry, Sam... if I'm going to sink that much money into a vehicle I want some assurances that it'll work, and if it doesn't I can get it repaired with as little inconvenience as possible. Even here in the States, packing it up and shipping across the continent is a far cry from "little inconvenience." If I lived on the other side of the planet I'd cross the thing completely off the list of potential candidates.
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"You never get a second chance to make a good first impression" UNK. That cliché applies to more than just human relations.
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When Electric Motorsport first started selling their 2008 GPR-S bikes, there were the usual issues. In one case that was reported on Elmoto (as I recall), the company flew one of their "engineers" from Oakland to New York to repair a bike. I think they also visited a couple of other customers in other areas of the country that same year. Needless to say, that got old fast and they stopped selling via the internet and shipping the bikes to their customers in boxes. They then switched to a brick and mortar retail model. Good for them, not so good for their dealers who had to address warranty problems. :(
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Sam, bless your heart, (southern saying) what will it take for you to rethink Lightning's ability to deliver these bikes? I mean all the specs and at the price they quoted?
Lightning aka Richard talked about making a 600cc type electric motorcycle back in like 2014. So they have been working on this for some time. They chose to announce that it was going to be launched in March of 2019. That was their choice, no one forced them.
They have to have test bikes with all the features and specs PROVEN so they know they can make the real bike with parts from whoever is going to make them and built by whoever is going to build them before you make an announcement that you are ready to take orders.
It's just basic common business sense.
If they hit parts delays they have to tell the public. If it makes them look bad and like they don't know what they are doing, too bad.
If they tell someone who ordered a Strike and put $10k down that it will be another 6 months or year added to the already year they have waited to get their bike, and the person says screw that give me my money back. That is what they have to do.
If Richard has to sell the LS218 that won Pike's Peak bike for $10k to someone to get the money then that is what has to happen.
People who aren't willing to throw themselves on the sword when things go wrong in business shouldn't be in business.
I saw there were other bikes in the showroom. They should pull every battery cell, controller, motor, or whatever else is needed to make a "customers" bike. If not, then Lightning is just a motorcycle racing hobby endeavor and should only offer those types of bikes to rich friends who want track toys and shouldn't claim to be a manufacturing company.
I don't want to bash Lightning or try to stop them from making motorcycles but a bird that walks like a duck swims like a duck and quacks like a duck is most likely a duck. Either they were betting too much on China saving them all this money and being able get them all the parts they needed fast and cheap or there was too much "hoping" that things would be all worked out later on.
As of now I'm trying to see what Damon can show me and if they can do better. We'll see. They may end up the same way.
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I think you guys are overblowing the risk the bike represented. The contacts were very double-booted, something that my S doesn't have.
-Crissa
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I can say with 100% certainty you are wrong. Studied another owner's bike up close. Everything I have said, claimed, or feared is justified and backed up by the new information we have.
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Seeing another bike does nothing to prove the risk you keep claiming, though.
-Crissa
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Mind you, original carburettors used to have an open pan of petrol sloshing around in them, and they weren't provably dangerous by the same line of reasoning. They just occasionally exploded and set fire to everybody is all.
Cas :)
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Crissa, why have Zero, Brammo, Alta, Mission, Harley, Energica all used rather robust battery cell protection? Do you think it was just because they thought it looked cool and would sell bikes?
It's important and needed.
I don't want to minimize the safety aspect as it is important, but it's the business side that boggles my mind. Why can't they make at least 4 or 5 finished bikes?
Princec, I saw some of those, they used a cotton wick to get gas into the piston chamber. Funny part of the old saying "live and learn" you first have to live.
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The argument "this is the way it has always been done'" has no weight.
A design that disperses the battery packs in a crash is a valid one. You might disagree, but it is a plan.
If sitting with a plastic tub of explosive between your legs was as much a problem, more ICE bikes would have a problem, too.
-Crissa
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Crissa it costs money to make battery protection. If tests showed it wasn't needed they wouldn't do it.
Bad things happened while testing so now they have protection.
I don't ride gas bikes either. There are plenty of videos of those burning away too.
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I realize I sound waaaay more excited about Lightning than I should, but after visiting their shop a few times and riding their bikes, it's hard not to be excited. I've had chats with people who've gone on test rides and put down deposits immediately after, and I 100% understand why.
The company is taking a long time to deliver bikes, yes, but they're worth the wait. It's hard to explain why unless you've ridden one.
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Tesla doesn't make motorcycles and the batteries they make are inches from the ground.
This is not a reason to say it's unsafe.
-Crissa
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But Sam who has ridden a real finished Carbon Strike? I don't believe one exists. If it does give it to the guy in the video.
A bike with a 10kWh battery is going to feel very quick and nimble compared to a 20kWh bike.
Can't you see that? (no anger or judgement but a real question)
I saw your last YT video so it looks like your going to go through with it so like I always said I hope for the best for you. I feel you know what your getting into and love it anyway. Hey I love Jaguars and I've had them so I get that you love what you love.
But at this point I feel we need to warn people who don't really know much about any electric motorcycles that this isn't like getting some Honda. There is real risk with the purchase, the down payment, and rider safety at this point. If someone wants to roll the dice and see what comes up it's their risk to take.
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Adding 30lbs to the bike won't change a whole lot handling-wise, and the added power will help. At the moment I'd compare Lightning to Lotus. They're a small company making lightweight sportbikes when no one else is. I'll keep supporting them for that exact reason. Until someone else makes a bike like they do, Lightning is necessary.
Also, until one of their bikes lights on fire or becomes an "unstoppable plasma ball" I'm going to disagree that they are unsafe ::)
In regards to production, I have a feeling the trade tariffs last year and the virus this year were both responsible for delays. Should they make an update to let people know what their plans are? Yeah, totally. I really hope they do.
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Sigh, didn't they tell you they wanted to use 2170 cells for the Strike? I could be wrong on that one but that's what I seem to remember some how.
A Zero Power tank is 3.6kWh and is like 45lbs. I know they are potted but still. Most of us called BS on the weight difference between the three bikes when the stats were released.
I just hope your not the one who finds out if they are unsafe or not. Good luck man. Stay safe in the big Z.
I love Lotus too by the way. Their new electric Evija is just fantastic, and like 2 million but still. :)
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Thanks man! Hey if anything good or bad happens, I'll be sure to catch it on video ;D
And yep, the difference in weight is the difference in cell chemistry. The Standards (as we've seen) have pouch cells like Zero and Energica, and the Carbons will have cylindrical 2170 cells. That's all I know though.