ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Home Brew => Topic started by: ZeroBrian on October 17, 2020, 06:06:56 AM
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A little blog site to write about the development and race activities for my Lightfighter race bike. Hope some here find it interesting!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_c6f352b7a0d7460796e356f269d56edd~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_469,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/46d3a8_c6f352b7a0d7460796e356f269d56edd~mv2.webp)
For those that missed the adventures of Lightfighter v1 last year, here's a nice recap: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/lightfighter-version-1-lfr19
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Thanks very much for the post. Loved it (V1) when I first came across it and very glad to see you continuing with your efforts for V2.
Always a great idea to add lightness as they say and swap-able batteries should be a game changer for your future endeavors.
I hope to see some videos posted as well.
Thanks again.
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Thanks very much for the post. Loved it (V1) when I first came across it and very glad to see you continuing with your efforts for V2.
Always a great idea to add lightness as they say and swap-able batteries should be a game changer for your future endeavors.
I hope to see some videos posted as well.
Thanks again.
Thanks for checking it out! Yes - we've had a great photo/video guy with us this season and I'll post some videos to the blog when he's done with the edits. Unfortunately, there's not a ton of race action as we really only raced the v1 bike at Laguna in February and then v2 in August at Buttonwillow.
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What a fantastic build! Everything is common sense and logically developed, based on prior experience and a true understanding of what's needed. Thanks for documenting this Brian.
Dyno question: did you have a chance to figure out how base speed changes as a function of voltage drop as the pack is used up? I know this can't be changed on-the-fly but I'm curious as to the process you used to figure out it's setpoint. It sure looks like that was a worthwhile couple of hours!
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What a fantastic build! Everything is common sense and logically developed, based on prior experience and a true understanding of what's needed. Thanks for documenting this Brian.
Dyno question: did you have a chance to figure out how base speed changes as a function of voltage drop as the pack is used up? I know this can't be changed on-the-fly but I'm curious as to the process you used to figure out it's setpoint. It sure looks like that was a worthwhile couple of hours!
Frank - Thanks for the kind words. As you know, the things that look like "common sense" in hindsight are often the toughest to come to when you're staring at a blank sheet of paper! ;)
I did not perform a sensitivity analysis to voltage/SOC with the base speed setting, but I did conduct the dyno test slightly down on SOC and I set the base speed lower than I would if I were just trying to post an impressive number. It's a good idea and I would certainly do this if access to the dyno was a little easier to come by. With another couple of dyno sessions, I think I could make further gains, especially now that I know the increase in peak torque had no ill effects (current control faults, etc...) on the track. That said, there are equal gains to be had in optimizing our chassis setup and simply providing the rider with more time in the saddle to get more comfortable with the current performance level. The Cascadia Motion (formerly Rinehart) inverter is a pretty bad @ss piece of equipment and although it's pricey, you get what you pay for. I can see the power decrease with voltage over a full club race run, but the difference is almost imperceptible to the rider.
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I hope to see some videos posted as well.
More to come, but here's a fly-by of the bike at speed at the track...
https://youtu.be/Zj0-HHDp7UI
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Sweet.
There is so much potential going forward, just amazing.
Can I ask what your new bike's pack voltage is at?
My screen name notes my layman status but I'm seeing the Porsche and Lucid Air running at over 800 and 900 volts respectively and was wonder if the race bikes are following in that direction. I know they can't get to that level with the cell space limits of motorcycles but didn't know the current state of the art.
Thanks for the post and thank Troy for helping advance the technology. Even if he does love doing it anyway.
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There's at least one bike built to higher voltage - Aussie Chris Jones' "Voltron". https://insideevs.com/news/323190/voltron-evo-when-too-much-is-not-enough-w-video/
The complete build thread is on Endless Sphere. I don't think he's raced for a couple of years. You have to pay a lot of attention to voltage ratings at those levels! I'm not sure it's necessary for track racing but I believe there is an application in land speed.
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Can I ask what your new bike's pack voltage is at?
The technical specifications on the battery (ESS) are here: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/thebiketech
It's a 365Vdc nominal, 415Vdc top of charge battery pack.
I don't believe that running at higher voltages is necessary to achieving still higher performance levels on a motorcycle, but that's just my opinion and would welcome the discussion. I would be concerned with safety mostly due to the creepage/clearance required at that voltage as well as corrosion at the current conductors. I am familiar with the Voltron build and followed it closely over on endless-sphere. It was certainly inspirational for Lightfighter, although I would characterize the design approaches as having very different focuses.
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Thanks Frank very interesting. I had seen the old Kill A Cycle drag race bike but not the Voltron.
Brian, I'm going off the advantages that Lucid spoke of. They talked about the lower amps allowing smaller gauge wire motor windings and better thermal management that also helped with the high speed charging again limiting the amp heat.
Where do you feel the bottle neck for greater performance is on your bike?
I saw the V1 had some thermal issues and that dang fuse. The swap-able ESS (I like the term) solves the race day charging challenges so what direction is the next challenge coming from?
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Brian, I'm going off the advantages that Lucid spoke of. They talked about the lower amps allowing smaller gauge wire motor windings and better thermal management that also helped with the high speed charging again limiting the amp heat.
Where do you feel the bottle neck for greater performance is on your bike?
I saw the V1 had some thermal issues and that dang fuse. The swap-able ESS (I like the term) solves the race day charging challenges so what direction is the next challenge coming from?
I must admit that I haven't seen the technical explanations from Lucid. I'm sure there are some really smart people working there, so they probably have good reasons for the voltage they've chosen. For me, I have an operating voltage limit in the inverter that keeps me below about 410Vdc, so it's a moot point in the short term. The benefit I could imagine running at higher voltage would be if you could spin the motor faster and extend the base speed. But then you'd need to gear down again to get to your wheel speeds and rear wheel torque target. I'm not particularly interested in efficiency for a track bike. I'm most interested in what yields the fastest lap times.
Performance means different things to different people. For me - the target is to be competitive (capable of podium finishes in club racing) at the top of the field of race-prepped Supersport and similar "Formula" category bikes. I think we're getting pretty close to this target. https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/the-final-test-of-the-year (https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/the-final-test-of-the-year) For those that don't spend a lot of time around a track, it might be a surprise that a properly prepared 600cc Yamaha R6 or ZX6R can spank a showroom 1000+cc Superbike (as can the Lightfighter).
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Hi Brian. I really enjoyed seeing the bike at AHRMA; Troy was just killing it! I could see how busy you and Troy were so I just hung around in the background, but I did take photos and videos on that day and will host them up for you if you'd like.
Might I ask what happened on turn 11 and Troy came to an unceremonious halt that prompted you to say (paraphrased), "Well, looks like we're done for the weekend"
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Hi Brian. I really enjoyed seeing the bike at AHRMA; Troy was just killing it! I could see how busy you and Troy were so I just hung around in the background, but I did take photos and videos on that day and will host them up for you if you'd like.
Might I ask what happened on turn 11 and Troy came to an unceremonious halt that prompted you to say (paraphrased), "Well, looks like we're done for the weekend"
I'd love to see any photos or videos you got from Laguna. That was the last race for v1 of the bike and I still plan to do a blog post about it eventually. As you mention, Troy was killing it and was the fastest bike on track on Saturday, winning the Sound of Thunder 1 overall and the Formula Lightning Extreme classes easily.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ewHw-TLtHP5oxX22gg7V0M3DyMhUCHZUVRUsIv6gL_eWAu5MjBGvLTsFl2yqBRlIFIItmCT4jo00TlbrDVWAI9xoYfj4UVRSgs_OcAkIQ_sTjsd94TmKUF1aYNXgqMZ7Lmfk0qriWh0wF2eSI70ZlLxw=w480-h320-no?authuser=0) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f-XhCaoDchTaXM8v57eKyEZfiCks9H4sX_YSlGZcRWgJ8sCCYxUKviuan8SJR66a9ihi5THkkhm8aVXWmAacyV2EGLZaBjz6yhizH031O8bGzK3GWJ4ehNwK__WZZyBkpsDKEWJklPKRw31R9dcpOfBA=w480-h320-no?authuser=0)
Unfortunately, he had to pull off the track from the lead in Sunday's Sound of Thunder 1 race as he could hear a strange noise coming from the motor/gearbox. He made the right call to take care of the bike and when we got it back we found that the drive sprocket on the gearbox output shaft was worn to nubs where the teeth were supposed to be, as you can see in this photo. The sound Troy heard was the sprocket slipping instead of driving the chain.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f3pRY9zE6ApOSuCGam0Uj8oiHw7HRYPfm_WV-SyTIyh4R_2AldsUUtUyqB57jpwBsvvp-6HCDLmtqKT0IDbJjDo8PaedN6FEy4Epneqs8i_-2_a7ognzYPMLhZyyY6nAdWBLDntJTqv_Il8l4EU6XyNg=w480-h360-no?authuser=0)
After running all last season on one of these, we decided it wise to replace it prior to this race. Obviously, we did not receive a part with the same material properties as the one we had been using. We have since moved away from running this style of sintered metal sprocket in favor of a more traditional hardened steel motorcycle countershaft sprocket. Lesson learned! :-[
Outside of this mechanical failure, the bike ran great and I'm really happy we were able to get this race in prior to all the covid restrictions generally wrecking the racing season! I'm also glad that some on this forum got to see the bike run in person!
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Sorry you had the sprocket failure, for sure hardened teeth are a must. There's several sources for them as I'm sure you know. I also like using Sprocket Specialists rear sprockets with their hardened coating. I have hundreds of high-power drag passes on them with virtually no wear.
BTW, is that a 420 or are you using 530?
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BTW, is that a 420 or are you using 530?
Yup. Version 2 is running a hardened motorcycle countershaft sprocket. We thought we could get away with one more event on v1 before making this change, but we were wrong. We run a 520 chain.
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Thanks Brian.
Do you have any advice about using regen during braking? Does it help maintain battery capacity in any appreciable fashion? Are you set up to use variable regen or Neutral/Braking?
I know this is highly track-dependent but it would be interesting to learn about any conclusions you may have reached.
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Brian, yes your definition of performance is spot on to mine in the question.
Racing curves separate monster straight line HP bikes from, IMO "real" race bikes and highly skilled riders.
I'm just interested in your unique point of view of the biggest challenges to full EV racing domination.
For example:
Are the thermal limits of either the battery, motor, or controller creeping up by the end of a race?
Do the motors and limited gearing options with a single fixed gear give the bike a lesser top speed than the gas counterparts? I know it dominates on torque and acceleration.
Could an open class allow for a different total design to take advantage of electric component versatility?
Just a curious interest in the emerging technology. Thanks.
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I'm just interested in your unique point of view of the biggest challenges to full EV racing domination.
For example:
Are the thermal limits of either the battery, motor, or controller creeping up by the end of a race?
Do the motors and limited gearing options with a single fixed gear give the bike a lesser top speed than the gas counterparts? I know it dominates on torque and acceleration.
Could an open class allow for a different total design to take advantage of electric component versatility?
Just a curious interest in the emerging technology. Thanks.
Such a simple question with a very complicated answer...
Yes - each system reaches close to it's operating temperature limit by the end of the race without exceeding them. This is as designed though as if a system was overheating, we'd come up with a solution - either a better cooling method or by detuning the power. With v2.0, I'm very happy with the thermal performance (remember that we've been racing in the middle of summer in California's central valley - it's hot!) we've seen so far. In the future, if the power level continues to increase (or the bike becomes heavier because it needs more battery), I will need to separate the cooling circuits between the motor and inverter as we did on the Brammo prototypes that raced at Isle of Man and Pikes Peak. The motor can run much hotter than the inverter can.
The limitations in gearing with a direct drive system (i.e. needing to chose low-end torque and acceleration vs. high-end top speed) can be mitigated with running higher DC bus voltages for a broad range of rpm to work with, selecting windings based on where you believe the ideal peak power point is needed, and by having expanded overall drive ratio options through an intermediate gear reduction as well as the final drive sprockets. We do tend to give up top speed at faster tracks, but this is also done willingly because we CAN exploit the strengths of an electric drivetrain and gear for excellent acceleration. At most tracks here on the West Coast, acceleration is the key to the fastest lap times. Some of the faster, more flowing tracks of Europe may require a different strategy.
An open class would only help if there were teams willing to participate. The money required to run even an amateur level racing effort is staggering for the average working stiff (ask me how I know... :o). I believe that with enough money and the right people, you could build an electric superbike to compete over a club racing distance with the best production based Superbikes. But that effort would be prohibitively expensive for most. The only way EV racing is going to displace gas motorcycle racing is if there's a consistent series to race in that provides a compelling enough package to get teams and sponsors on board. This is no simple task and as viewers move away from broadcast television to watch events like racing, the business model for a series or event promoter becomes even more difficult. It seems like the motorcycle industry trails the automotive industry in this regard. Even in MotoGP, the technologies are far less advanced than those being used in Formula 1 and LeMans with advanced energy recovery systems, turbos, moveable aerodynamics, and alternative fuels. I would love to see the motorcycle industry adopt a similar passion for advancing technology, but it seems like those golden years of public and commercial interest have passed and now it is up to those who continue to toil away in garages on nights and weekends to make forward progress.
To provide a glimpse of where Lightfighter is going - I'd like to see our battery capacity increase without compromising weight. I believe this will be possible within the next 12-18 months. I'd also like to extract a bit more power while simultaneously reducing the overall weight of the bike. Power:Weight has been the name of the game all along. Once we can be fully competitive with race-prepped Supersports, maybe we'll set our sights on those 200+hp Superbikes. Of course, they'll all have 250hp by then though...
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https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-6UQou9CrCzk8C5p7Zt8_psmnisVl4PX?usp=sharing
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I tried to open the file you linked but it said I needed access. I sent a request but is there another way to share?
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Wow Brian, thank you very much for that response.
As a former amateur bicycle racer I know that racing can eat up pay checks quickly, much more so for motorcycles.
I got into it too late in life to compete with the big pros but I did go the route of superior strength to weight ratio myself.
I excelled in hill climbs at 140lbs of solid rider, I'd kill them in the mountains but the flatter courses the guys with tree trunk thighs were too strong to catch. So I could FEEL the extra power needed for that higher speed and tucking in to get out of dang head winds.
My ideas for motorcycles are just gathered in my head from the last few years of learning about how all the different companies approach the limiting issues.
Things like Porsche's two speed gear box that allows both hard acceleration and higher top speed with less stress to the battery system.
The use of ultra capacitors to capture regen and then dump it back out for for a few seconds of acceleration, again less heat and stress to the batteries.
Perhaps more heat sinking applied to the body work? The down force wings made of aluminum to serve two purposes instead of a front radiator.
I hope your efforts and success on your current budget catch the attention of some bigger companies and you get the big sponsor money this project deserves.
Best of luck in all future efforts.
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I tried to open the file you linked but it said I needed access. I sent a request but is there another way to share?
I think I done goofed, initially. Try again.
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Man Morgan that last video showing him going around the main building... Just screaming down that track. ;D Awesome!
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I tried to open the file you linked but it said I needed access. I sent a request but is there another way to share?
I think I done goofed, initially. Try again.
That worked for me! Thanks for sending! Do you have any issue if I use some of these for a blog post about this race on my site? Random side note - the guy standing on the balcony watching the race with his wife is racer Tom Wilbert, who Troy battled with all season in 2019 in Formula Thunder.
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Thanks Brian.
Do you have any advice about using regen during braking? Does it help maintain battery capacity in any appreciable fashion? Are you set up to use variable regen or Neutral/Braking?
I know this is highly track-dependent but it would be interesting to learn about any conclusions you may have reached.
Short answer is that I wouldn't rely on regen to make a race distance. At Buttonwillow, any significant regen (>1C) is only happening for <15 seconds a lap, so over a full race distance of 6 laps, that's only 1.5 minutes of "charging".
I do try to minimize the amount of regen and tune for rider feel (it can help find the apex at neutral throttle) as it's making the motor work harder and it's putting input into the chassis/suspension on corner entry. I also do not play around with varying regen rates as I've found most pro-level riders just want it to be dead consistent (i.e. flat curve). The regen is off below about 500 rpm to allow easier maneuvering in the pits and rolling to grid, etc...
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That worked for me! Thanks for sending! Do you have any issue if I use some of these for a blog post about this race on my site? Random side note - the guy standing on the balcony watching the race with his wife is racer Tom Wilbert, who Troy battled with all season in 2019 in Formula Thunder.
Go ahead and use away to your heart's content.
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Thank you for this great and insightful thread Brian!
As an EV enthusiast in general, i'm curious if some of these conceptual technologies could reduce energy lost from an EV:
1. Suspension energy recovery
2. Energy recovered from rolling tires (Sumitomo was supposedly working on this)
Will these make a bigger difference in a racing environment where the mechanical forces acting are much higher?
Also, since front brakes are the ones that work the hardest? How far away is the possibility of the front brakes being replaced almost completely by a regen system (say like a front hub motor exclusively for front regen only).
And its really exciting to see the Lightfighter take on the ICE bikes!
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Thank you for this great and insightful thread Brian!
As an EV enthusiast in general, i'm curious if some of these conceptual technologies could reduce energy lost from an EV:
1. Suspension energy recovery
2. Energy recovered from rolling tires (Sumitomo was supposedly working on this)
Will these make a bigger difference in a racing environment where the mechanical forces acting are much higher?
Also, since front brakes are the ones that work the hardest? How far away is the possibility of the front brakes being replaced almost completely by a regen system (say like a front hub motor exclusively for front regen only).
And its really exciting to see the Lightfighter take on the ICE bikes!
Always happy to talk technology and racing! The short answer is that the method of energy recovery would need to come without a corresponding weight penalty for it to be "worth it". Physics is a bit of a b*tch and it's seldom more evident than at the track. I would say that the largest gains for a track bike are going to come from improvements to 1. vehicle weight 2. increasing peak power 3. improving aerodynamics and 4. suspension tuning. You really don't want to mess around with reduced rolling resistance tires as that typically means they have a lower coefficient of friction as well... not great for 50 degree lean angles!
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That worked for me! Thanks for sending! Do you have any issue if I use some of these for a blog post about this race on my site? Random side note - the guy standing on the balcony watching the race with his wife is racer Tom Wilbert, who Troy battled with all season in 2019 in Formula Thunder.
Go ahead and use away to your heart's content.
Heart is now contented... ;) https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/the-last-dance-for-version-1-lfr19
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Cool! Glad the photos are getting some use instead of just languishing in my albums.
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A Question for Brian:
The battery pack seems pretty well protected: it's never been "crash tested", has it? Can you tell us what material is used for the cases and is there any structural function to it?
I've been wondering about this; my packs are always just stuck inside the bike but some guys built an e-bike in Nova Scotia a few years back using a monocoque type construction and the battery case was (apparently) the "frame".
(thanks)
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A Question for Brian:
The battery pack seems pretty well protected: it's never been "crash tested", has it? Can you tell us what material is used for the cases and is there any structural function to it?
I've been wondering about this; my packs are always just stuck inside the bike but some guys built an e-bike in Nova Scotia a few years back using a monocoque type construction and the battery case was (apparently) the "frame".
(thanks)
The bike's never been crashed, but it's been dropped a couple of times - once at the track doing photo shoot maneuvers in the pit lane and another when it fell off the dyno when the front wheel chock failed. For v2, the battery enclosure is mostly machined 6061-T6 aluminum, but the front "cover" is a high density plastic. The top and bottom are machined polycarbonate. The frame is not designed to rely on the battery for much structural support - i.e. you can pull the battery out and the bike stays together. One of the prototype bikes in the Brammo days relied on the battery structurally and it was a royal pain to service the battery and work on the bike. I think the bike you're referring to is the Amarock race bike that Michael Uhlarick designed? It's a cool concept, but not really aligned with the goals for my Lightfighter project as it hinders serviceability (IMHO) and reduces the flexibility to make changes as you learn things. Traveling around to professional and amateur race events all these years has made it clear to me that a racing motorcycle needs to be designed to come apart and go back together easily as well as provide for maximum adaptability for different tracks/events. Hope that helps.
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The bike's never been crashed, but it's been dropped a couple of times - once at the track doing photo shoot maneuvers in the pit lane and another when it fell off the dyno when the front wheel chock failed.
I use polycarbonate for my packs; my only crash experience was one time my drag bike was parked in line and a guy on a bicycle ran into it (I kid you not). I was talking to a friend by his car and heard the crash and thought "that sounds like someone's bike fell over" - turned around and it was mine. The guy on the bicycle (I think he was drunk) stands and yells "I'm okay! I'm okay!" No damage but I wasn't that happy with him, lol.
You are correct about the motorcycle: Amarok. I've tried to get in touch with them as our place in Nova Scotia is only about an hour from the Halifax area but no luck. I don't think it was that quick, but it was quite some time ago - technology has advanced a bit since then. They actually ran it at Pikes Peak. The track scenes in the video are at Atlantic Motorsports Park, where I do track days.
https://www.amarokracing.ca/site/Home.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Vu9hkU088
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Great interview and tech details Brian!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fyb7PFIJw0
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+1
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Nice to see it more close up! What a beefy bike ^-^. But in the good ways.
-Crissa
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Great interview and tech details Brian!
Thanks! Trying to strike a balance between technical details and causing the interviewer's eyes to glass over... ;)
Let me know if there are any questions that didn't get addressed in the video.
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Great interview and tech details Brian!
Thanks! Trying to strike a balance between technical details and causing the interviewer's eyes to glass over... ;)
Let me know if there are any questions that didn't get addressed in the video.
Sure! I guess the only question that comes to my mind (which i guess was not talked about in the interview) was the battery cooling. I know the motor is water cooled. How is the heat dissipated from the cells? I guess the pack is not liquid cooled to keep the weight low.
Also, on the same topic, please share your thoughts on potentially using the solid state batteries from QuantumScape in the future :)
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Here is the Motorcycle.com video on the LF racing from Troy's POV. Part One:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-daS5NtLMU
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The drop-out battery design is interesting.
-Crissa
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A quick recap of our last race here: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/first-race-of-2021-afm-at-buttonwillow
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_d0608015e5ee4bb8813d325ad5f8ca43~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_814,h_543,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_d0608015e5ee4bb8813d325ad5f8ca43~mv2.webp)
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Awesome article. Nice to see it competitive!
-Crissa
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We've got a test at Laguna Seca coming up and another race at Buttonwillow in mid-June with a new race series called CRA. Poke around on their website and you might see a familiar bright orange bike... ;)
*clicks link and looks at site*
Hmmmm
(https://i.imgur.com/kF3rQId.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X8mMLBm.png)
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Great job Brian. Looks like you have it dialed in and about ready to hang up front or win real soon..
Congrats on the Dunlap sponsorship and of course continued success should attract others. Maybe a CA motorcycle company.
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Was just looking at the upcoming schedule for Laguna Seca AHRMA racing and noticed a couple familiar bikes in the header:
https://www.co.monterey.ca.us/government/government-links/weathertech-raceway/upcoming-events/ahrma-copy
See you there in a few weeks!
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https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-with-cra-at-buttonwillow (https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-with-cra-at-buttonwillow)
Posting for Brian, as I think he's pretty busy (hope he doesn't mind)
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Posting for Brian, as I think he's pretty busy (hope he doesn't mind)
Definitely don't mind. Unfortunately, Lightfighter will be a miss for the Laguna AHRMA round (see the end of the blog post for the explanation). However, we did do a couple of race simulations on our last trackday there last month with V2 that indicates it would've been a fun one...
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/down-the-corkscrew-testing-at-laguna-seca
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Like a little Christmas present in July, here's the Motorcycle.com YT video of the Lightfighter in action.
Bobby Loo the suspension man making adjustments on the fly is like having a good cut man in your corner in boxing.
Troy racing in 108F temps shows how much he believes in this project and where it's headed. Continued success guys, great job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aRFHsYFtiY
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Like a little Christmas present in July, here's the Motorcycle.com YT video of the Lightfighter in action.
Bobby Loo the suspension man making adjustments on the fly is like having a good cut man in your corner in boxing.
Troy racing in 108F temps shows how much he believes in this project and where it's headed. Continued success guys, great job.
Thanks! It's definitely a passion project for all involved. I know my delivery is a bit dry, but I went through the bike front to back in that video... hope some of you find it interesting!
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Good job Brian - personally I would love to learn more about your pack design and any construction tips you might have. Getting anything to survive and work well at those temps is an outstanding achievement.
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New blog post up! :D
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/back-at-it-cra-round-2
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Great update! Probably a wise call with the cells considering that's basically your budget if they get damaged.
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Nice! Fourth, huh? Wow, that's really good.
-Crissa
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Great update! Probably a wise call with the cells considering that's basically your budget if they get damaged.
Heh. Agreed. They're along for the ride as a sponsor, so ok to be feeding them data, not so good to abuse their product. It's all good now. Just a reminder that we're pushing limits.
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I know racing is all about pushing the limits as it should be.
I was wondering if you had an idea what caused the cell issue.
Was it the heavy discharge of the race, pushing the charging limits, or the stress of both race and quick turn recharge that pushed it too far?
Nice showing by the way. If they left in that one little side curve in I think Troy would have placed even higher. But a 150MPH straight shot has it's own rewards.
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I know racing is all about pushing the limits as it should be.
I was wondering if you had an idea what caused the cell issue.
Was it the heavy discharge of the race, pushing the charging limits, or the stress of both race and quick turn recharge that pushed it too far?
Nice showing by the way. If they left in that one little side curve in I think Troy would have placed even higher. But a 150MPH straight shot has it's own rewards.
The cell issue was caused by the longer race at elevated temperatures. The bottom cells got hotter than the upper cells (i.e. temperature gradient) which may have been compounded by the fact that the motor itself was running hotter during this race with that long straight. Nothing too challenging to solve for and I'm glad we made it out to this event and exposed a weakness we hadn't seen before.
Thanks for the kind words. We plan to be back at Buttonwillow in October with AFM to run the normal layout and the shorter 6 lap races. Should provide a good point of comparison to the start of the season. Hopefully we've made some progress... ;)
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Here's my race report from our last race of the season. Looking forward to a little time off over the holidays and some upgrades over the off-season before we get back to it. Thanks for reading!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/starting-to-click-last-race-of-the-season-with-afm
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_d9e742ae98dc441eb8ec920cb5e1f223~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_469,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_d9e742ae98dc441eb8ec920cb5e1f223~mv2.webp)
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Great showing Brian. Be sure and give Troy an "At A Boy" too. Troy is one of the few major motorcycle reviewers to give solid honest reviews on electric motorcycles and he seems to have the vision to know these bikes are the future. And the future will be awesome.
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Have you crashed it yet? How well protected were the cells? You know what they say - "If you don't crash sometimes then you're not trying hard enough." ;)
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Have you crashed it yet? How well protected were the cells? You know what they say - "If you don't crash sometimes then you're not trying hard enough." ;)
No yard sales yet, knock on wood. Just a couple of tip overs. You know what else they say... "Keep the rubber side down... crashing is expensive!" ;)
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And another update - our last of the year. What a wild ride 2021 was! Hope everyone is staying safe and enjoying the holidays out there!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/christmas-comes-early-lightfighter-customer-1 (https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/christmas-comes-early-lightfighter-customer-1)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_887d0bbef790481689ec7b42672e4ea4~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_527,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_887d0bbef790481689ec7b42672e4ea4~mv2.webp)
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Whoa, that's unexpected and very cool. I want to see what happens when Nick and Troy run head to head. Also, any Seca lap times to share? I understand Nick may not be familiar with the track so I'm not expecting 1:40s or anything. Just curious.
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Whoa, that's unexpected and very cool. I want to see what happens when Nick and Troy run head to head. Also, any Seca lap times to share? I understand Nick may not be familiar with the track so I'm not expecting 1:40s or anything. Just curious.
Thanks! Nick and Troy won't be running head-to-head on Lightfighters as Nick is going to race twins classes and Troy is racing the 600 classes. However, Troy will be racing the same classes as Nick on his personal Kramer gas motorcycle. Nick is just moving up to expert whereas Troy's been racing at the expert level for quite awhile.
We didn't get any laptimes for Nick during the trackday. Troy was running 1'35s the last time we were at Laguna.
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Congrats Brian, this sounds like a perfect connection of maker and dreamer. A regular two wheeled Shelby in the making.
Are you and Troy planning to run a full season next year with just tweaks to V2 or could there be a V3 on the way?
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Troy was running 1'35s the last time we were at Laguna.
Any plans to let Kenyon on it?
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Congrats Brian, this sounds like a perfect connection of maker and dreamer. A regular two wheeled Shelby in the making.
Are you and Troy planning to run a full season next year with just tweaks to V2 or could there be a V3 on the way?
Thanks for the encouragement! This year will mostly be refinements to the V2 package. We have a completely new custom bodywork set that I hope to debut later in the season. I'll also be adding a fork and shock potentiometer so we can get some more insight into the suspension/chassis setup this season. I think the overall package is working really well, so apart from additional weight reduction or some improvement in thermal management for the longer races, I'm pretty happy with where we're at.
I did end up with a couple of the Brammo/Victory RR prototype motors, which are the same diameter, but about 25% more torque & power than the Lightfighter motor owing to being wider (i.e. longer stack). If anyone's got budget to build a proper Superbike competitor, let me know... ;)
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Any plans to let Kenyon on it?
Kenyon rode v1 early on at a private test. We'll see if there's an opportunity to let him try v2 at some point this season. He's been pretty focused on making his personal SR/F/S race bike faster. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXVXYYJgvZqN6DIP35u1tj2QKaskr3-B9DDWljG4vVXxPKszhM4IyhdFPjVV4jXaZ5hgTZV1yQucLvla2wfhPe4ZeWqB9hF5YBCBvG-8d1_CjBTHkcVJvwRqfwOrRzw1rwmdPLQJ874UC7EPUtrFn0vDQ=w1272-h780-no?authuser=0)
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I still can't get over his teletubby GoPro.
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After an exciting first round that saw the bike take a tumble, I got the bike rebuilt and back on track...
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/back-in-business
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_8a3b297e02b04bbe8812ad3020adfb7f~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_469,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_8a3b297e02b04bbe8812ad3020adfb7f~mv2.webp)
If you're at Laguna for the CRA, AHRMA, or AFM races, please stop by and say "hi"!
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Oof, I didn't realize there was a crash. Glad everyone is ok and the bike was salvageable. Since I'm just over the hill from Seca I might pop by.
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Sorry to hear about the crash but glad it all went ok.
I'm actually glad the circumstances worked out to where it put you in the saddle. You should get to feel the results of all your work.
Amazing design.
#First-Place-This-Year
Best of luck.
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Oof, I didn't realize there was a crash. Glad everyone is ok and the bike was salvageable. Since I'm just over the hill from Seca I might pop by.
Yeah, my previous blog post I apparently didn't post here, but you can find it here if you want the gory details: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/things-go-a-little-sideways
Here's a video from a following bike. You'll see Troy zoom through on the left at the start, move up into second place a couple of corners later, and then exit stage right in the first long left hander...
https://gopro.com/v/G1Mrk57RBd08Q
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Hey Brian, good seeing you and Troy this past weekend. I wanted to share the photos I took of the LightFighter, some in action. I think you'll be pleased with image #7111 in particular. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-8gRP2tcG2cDt1YRdw-6X6IwegJIi9u2?usp=sharing
And yes, you're free to use any of those however you wish.
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Man that thing just shoots off the line. Almost isn't fair.
So...Podium...W?
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Hey Brian, good seeing you and Troy this past weekend. I wanted to share the photos I took of the LightFighter, some in action. I think you'll be pleased with image #7111 in particular. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-8gRP2tcG2cDt1YRdw-6X6IwegJIi9u2?usp=sharing
And yes, you're free to use any of those however you wish.
Great seeing you out there as well and thank you for the photos! We had an up and down weekend starting with a crash on Friday, but have a few positive take-aways. It was certainly fun watching Stefano and Troy duke it out and congrats to Energica for taking the win. Troy had tried to shake Mesa in the first couple of laps and couldn't, so he thought he'd tail him to see if he could learn from him and maybe draft him to the line. Unfortunately, it back fired as a bagger crashed in the corkscrew, the red flag came out, and they called the race result based on the prior lap. Oh well. We'll have another crack at Laguna for the AHRMA weekend in July. Would be great to see you again then!
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New blog post up on our first race weekend at Laguna Seca... Enjoy!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-laguna-seca-part-i
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_d7b4f1b8fb7f4d7a990139964ecbeda7~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_527,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_d7b4f1b8fb7f4d7a990139964ecbeda7~mv2.webp)
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What a cool weekend! Glad to see Troy and the bike made (another) full recovery and happy to see any photos I took be useful. Man, that GoPro footage, though.
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And Part 2 of Racing at Laguna...
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-laguna-part-ii
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_1174095749be47f8b96de60c513cea7e~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_469,al_c,q_90/46d3a8_1174095749be47f8b96de60c513cea7e~mv2.webp)
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Hi Brian, I've seen guys do multiple drag runs or hill climbs without charging and with the lower voltage of each run their time slips more and more.
Do you feel that is happening towards the end of the races? IOW the gas bikes are able to pull away just a little bit more at the end?
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Hi Brian, I've seen guys do multiple drag runs or hill climbs without charging and with the lower voltage of each run their time slips more and more.
Do you feel that is happening towards the end of the races? IOW the gas bikes are able to pull away just a little bit more at the end?
We see about a 10% drop in peak power by the end of the race, but the torque remains consistent, so really only top speed suffers. This is happening while the rider and tires are improving, so the drop of in lap times is often pretty minimal. For Nick, on his customer Lightfighter, he's typically running his fastest lap on the last lap of the race. His bike is a bit detuned to run in twins classes, so the drop in bus voltage is much less noticeable. He's also still figuring out what works for him on the bike from a set-up perspective.
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Part III of Racing Laguna is up! Check it out... spills and thrills...
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-laguna-part-iii (https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/racing-laguna-part-iii)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_fdf3b46831b140149116161d57865114~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_468,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/46d3a8_fdf3b46831b140149116161d57865114~mv2.jpg)
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Oof, that poor orange bike can't catch a break. Glad everyone is safe, and congratulations on the impressive lap time! Really good photos and video, too. Thank you for posting these updates.
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Oof, that poor orange bike can't catch a break. Glad everyone is safe, and congratulations on the impressive lap time! Really good photos and video, too. Thank you for posting these updates.
Heh... yeah, it's been a rough season for the factory bike (and owner). It was great to see us make some progress on the lap times though to give me some encouragement to keep going. Glad that you're enjoying the updates. Kenyon also set a PB on his Zero SR/F - a 1:39.0, so progress on the production bike side as well.
We need an Energica in this photo as well! Maybe next year?
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_c70e475b8cb645059c6599398447c17e~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_527,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/46d3a8_c70e475b8cb645059c6599398447c17e~mv2.jpg)
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Oh, I have a feeling something is in the works now that there are Moto-E bikes that can't be used for Moto-E.
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Oh, I have a feeling something is in the works now that there are Moto-E bikes that can't be used for Moto-E.
:o Do you think it will be a professional/MotoAmerica thing or club-level?
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:o Do you think it will be a professional/MotoAmerica thing or club-level?
I think the dream is MotoAmerica. But, you know, a lot of negotiations and talks would have to go well. Ideally it would be open class electric and gas bikes together.
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:o Do you think it will be a professional/MotoAmerica thing or club-level?
I think the dream is MotoAmerica. But, you know, a lot of negotiations and talks would have to go well. Ideally it would be open class electric and gas bikes together.
That would certainly be pretty darn cool. I'll keep my fingers crossed! Let me know if there's any way I can help...
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Latest blog post... enjoy!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/everything-everywhere-all-at-round-1
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_6a42b0a0dda2454b823182d01f1416e7~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_527,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/46d3a8_6a42b0a0dda2454b823182d01f1416e7~mv2.jpg)
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Our race report from the first real race event of the season... Thanks for checking it out! ;D
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/this-is-the-way-afm-round-2-at-buttonwillow-raceway (https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/this-is-the-way-afm-round-2-at-buttonwillow-raceway)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_4699662b53d24d30bfe5b4934be97bf1~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_703,h_468,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/46d3a8_4699662b53d24d30bfe5b4934be97bf1~mv2.jpg)
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Always great to hear about successful racing without any crashes, especially considering you've been unfairly plagued with bad luck.
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I look at racing, or just riding the bike period,like fishing.
ANY day out on the water beats a day in the office.
Now if I could figure out a way to pull my skiff with my bike i'd be in heaven :D
Glad to see you are back out and on the tracks there, and please keep the rubber side DOWN this time a round !!
Aaron
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My last blog post of 2023... ENJOY! Happy New Year!
https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/celebrating-the-fast-life
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/46d3a8_fbe2bb147b754d0cae6989aa1fb598ca~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_740,h_493,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/46d3a8_fbe2bb147b754d0cae6989aa1fb598ca~mv2.jpg)
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Heck yeah!
edit- I know they're entirely different machines but I'd love to see a weekend with Kenyon and his SR/F and Troy on the Lightfighter at the same track.