ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Pard on July 19, 2024, 07:30:59 PM
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091PDQVK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Tool required to remove front sprocket nut
Everything else:
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sometimes there is a bit of a wait to get the tool, its backordered.
With that.
Energica of New England has a program where he can lend you his / rent it or whatever you want to call it to get your bike work done.
This sure beats waiting 8 weeks for backordered shipping to catch up to you or putting new parts on a worn out sprocket.
If you live fairly close to me, we could meet up one day and I could let you use mine as well.
Stop by, lets get your bike changed, have a few bev's and good eats and go for a ride maybe?
Just thinking out loud.
Aaron
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sometimes there is a bit of a wait to get the tool, its backordered.
With that.
Energica of New England has a program where he can lend you his / rent it or whatever you want to call it to get your bike work done.
This sure beats waiting 8 weeks for backordered shipping to catch up to you or putting new parts on a worn out sprocket.
If you live fairly close to me, we could meet up one day and I could let you use mine as well.
Stop by, lets get your bike changed, have a few bev's and good eats and go for a ride maybe?
Just thinking out loud.
Aaron
Super nice offer Aaron!
I am in the Northeast, so a meetup is not likely, but really do appreciate it.
The tool is actually already in hand, so I am good to go on that. $30 plus $12 shipping on Amazon fron the UK.
Will report back if it works, but it seems to be a genuine KS tool KM5 unit with internal teeth.
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I think mine had 4 tits on it, I can't remember what it looked like. kind of like a cylindrical spanner wrench :D For the front sprocket.
One with access to a machine shop could make one pretty easy, but if you are not that person, then shopping is the way to go!
Wonder why they did that and not just a normal nut. I mean if loosening is an issue then just use a fkn castle nut yanno?
Aaron
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This is the tool I use for the chain:
https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0470
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym-P5g-2t00&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u48Zpb0JfwI
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Good info!
Mine is 16-tooth non-RS sprocket...replaced rear tire today spun her up on the paddoc stand and driveline sounded noiser than expected.
What is the typical bike mileage (service interval) for these components?
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The nuts are made by SKF and can be purchased from a variety of retailers.
Search for "SKF TMFS5 Lock Nut Socket"
Mine is 16-tooth non-RS sprocket...replaced rear tire today spun her up on the paddoc stand and driveline sounded noiser than expected.
What is the typical bike mileage (service interval) for these components?
Proper maintenance (adjustment and lubrication) will drastically extend the service life of a chain. 15k miles is what I would expect as the normal life of a quality 525 size chain.
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PWM I have found that when doing tire / chain stuff and it sounds a bit on the noisy side, that means I may have set the chain tension a bit on the tight side. Try taking a flat or so off the tensioning bolts and see what that does for you. If it's way way loose then you get the chain rattling like sound but tight, more of a mechanical sound. Also, giving it oh a mile or so of actual riding for everything to get settled back in where it wants to be, and lubes spread evenly can help too.
Aaron
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In terms of chain tension, it gets set not to exceed 30mm, it's been stable at 30mm -1mm for the last several chain lubes which is typically 500mile intervals.
Am I setting the chain too tight?
Using wax lube from 1gal bulk supply unit...
Saturate shop towel (heavy-duty paper type, one can hardly rip) and use it to clean chain, saturate a second towel to lube chain.
Wondering if some of the noise was coming from motor's coolant / oil pump after bike has been sitting...non-EMC variant, obviously.
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No, thats what the chain is supposed to be set at.
What I have noticed though is that sometimes, you are supposed to go around a few times checking your chain for the loosest area, and tightest area, and adjusting that 30mm from the tightest spot. sometimes, by the time you get done doing this entire thing, the chain ends up a bit on the tight side anyways, (you maybe thought a spot was the tightest and it wasnt) or the tire slid slightly when you were tightening the nut, etc etc, and you end up with say 26 mm slack. Being that it is a little tighter, it can make a bit more noise than you are used to. It's better to have it a little on the looser side, rather than on the tighter side, as overly tight can wear things out faster, cause more stress.
Other times I have found that after giving the chain a REALLY good cleaning, like you should be doing, I mean getting deep down with the scrub brush, hitting each link, spraying them down till it drips clean, etc etc, then re lubing, sometimes it takes a little bit for the new lubrication to make it's way back down into everything. The chain has to flex a few times to get it to actually squeeze /squish down into the nether regions, especially if you are using one of those wax type of lubes and not a spray fluid.
Yet other times I have found that, you just done your maintenance, and now are looking for problems, (oh man I hope I did this right) and since you ARE looking for problems, you'll fine one !! Hmm?? what's that SOUND??? is it louder than before? is something different??? is my chain wore out ??? and you talk yourself into something not being right.
As a chain ages, the differences from the tightest to loosest spot on it can get fairly large, making it even more of an issue getting it 'perfect'.
If your chain was way too tight, you'd notice that fairly quick. Id not worry too much about it, just keep an eye on it and every time you park for the next few days, give it quick finger flex, get a ballpark of where it is at now. Again, if opening it up a little bit, quiets things down a lot, it won't hurt doing so.
Aaron
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Good to sanity check...my bike rides smooth w/ gear-whine but nothing noticeable from chain while riding.
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The nuts are made by SKF and can be purchased from a variety of retailers.
Search for "SKF TMFS5 Lock Nut Socket"
Mine is 16-tooth non-RS sprocket...replaced rear tire today spun her up on the paddoc stand and driveline sounded noiser than expected.
What is the typical bike mileage (service interval) for these components?
Proper maintenance (adjustment and lubrication) will drastically extend the service life of a chain. 15k miles is what I would expect as the normal life of a quality 525 size chain.
I am meticulous about chain maintenance, but this OEM chain has to go at 6500 miles. Once the outside of the links start to show corrosion, it is safe to assume the inner pins are getting bad as well. Higher quality aftermarket chains will withstand the elements better.
Energica, like all manufacturers tries to keep the costs down as much as possible without sacrificing too much in the way of quality, so the OEM chain is simply not a premium chain.
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If you chain looks like this, change it.
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Of course the KSTool socket is available again.
Just got the other brand a week or two ago... https://www.ebay.com/itm/155273043925
at least it isn't $200!
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Here we are again, discussing chains again ;D
The OEM chain comes from Regina, an Italian supplier. I can't say that the quality was inferior, I had it changed at 17,500 km (was still good) and mounted an allegedly superior Regina HPE which came with the marketing 'low maintenance'.
As already written elsewhere in this forum, this nearly triple-priced chain disintegrated at 14,000 km already with x-rings coming off and incredible lenghtening. This chain saw no rain and my riding style then was less progressive than it is now. So, no recommendation from my side.
Outside corrosion must not necessarily mean that the lube inside the chain (protected by the x-rings) is impaired. But I agree, why loose sleep over a wear part which is not that expensive. If you have no trust in that chain anymore, go ahead an change it.
Regarding noise:
Don't fret too much over chain noise if it is not uneven (indicating a loose spot) or really loud already at low speeds (< 30 km/h). It is a mechanical drive with interaction of metallic surfaces, so it MUST make noise, right?
@Aaron: You are totally rightly saying, if you listen too closely you may hear problems which aren't really there.
Chain noise might differ from time to time due to different chain lubes, lube thickness, dust sticking to the lube/chain, ambient moisture and different wear of the components (front sprocket, rear chainwheel and chain). And at some speeds the drive might hit a resonance frequency leading to a higher pitch of noise.
From my experience, it makes no difference if you mount a 'silent' type of front sproket (these come with heavy rubber rings on both sides) that will not subdue the chain noise.
I use a dry lube on PTFE basis attracting nearly no dust and the chain rollers always are blinking clean, so of course my chain sounds louder as one with caked lube.
If you don't trust yourself judging the state your chain is in, get a chain gauge. Cost about 20 bucks. You can check the chain over the whole length in a minute and can sleep well at night.
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@jotjotde I read through your thread about your chain experience. It was very helpful and informative.
Given the same treatment, better quality chains seem to resist corrosion better than the lesser quality chains. Not sure why. Must be a different metal alloy used and perhaps better machining. Additionally, the chains with colored or coated side plates will resist rust for longer. The rollers and bushings are not coated. Lube protects them.
Solid pins pass through hollow pins (bushings), and are sealed on the sides by the o rings.
The hollow pins through which they pass serve as the bushings that the rollers rotate on.
The outside of the bushings and the inside of the rollers are not sealed.
If the outer plate metal is getting corroded then those same corrosive forces are reaching the exposed metal inside the rollers.
Good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc4tP8kmAX0
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@Pard, I am glad that someone found that interesting :)
The video you linked in your post is informative. What the guys says in many words is the simple fact that no cleaning or lube job can improve anything what is in the inner part of the chain. This 'inner' lube is what the chain life is mainly depending on.
Regina's claim of 'low maintenance' is based on a alleged coating of these inner surfaces with carbides or something in the hope that the surfaces are less prone to abrasion/corrosion. That sounds good in theory but obviously it is not working.
Off topic: Regarding chain maintenance, my personal opinion is
- Never use pressure cleaners
- Never clean too rigiously with brushes, pads or whatever
- Avoid chain cleaners, detergents etc. or at least use them sparingly (don't coat the chain with it, rather apply on a cloth and wipe)
- Thin coats of lube are enough
- Application of the chain outside is totally OK
Here's why.
Over lifetime of the chain this 'inner lube' is compromised, mainly by stress, temperature, moisture or even chain cleaner (if you are a hardcore user of this stuff).
You see, the lube is basically a mix long-chained hydrocarbons with some additives. Stress (mechanical forces) as well as temperature lead to breaking (cracking) of the hydrocarbons impairing their lubing faculties. Moisture or chain cleaner creeping through the O/X-rings (no sealing is 100%) change these hydrocarbons chemically, impairing them as well. When reacting with water, this is called hydrogenation, so keep your pressure cleaner away from the chain.
Second advice is: Rigorously scrubbing with a too hard brush, scotch brite or whatever can displace or even damage the O/X-rings which seal the inner lube from the outside. So don't do that!
What the video is wrong about, is the fact that the outer rollers do normally NOT rotate, they keep their position even when they take their turn along the sprockets. The sprocket teeths are exactly engineered that way.
Rotation will happen though when over time the teeth wear out, getting the famous sharkfin look or the surfaces under the roller erode or corrode, changing the diameters. Also lengthening of the chain (which happens when the inner lube is not functioning properly anymore, leading to material abrasion) changes the geometry of the tooth/chain configuration, so the roller cannot get smoothly into the groove between two teeths anymore.
With the lube job you are required to do you try to postpone this erosion or corrosion of the roller surfaces. The lube is more or less there to hinder water and debris entering the cleft left and right of the rollers and ingressing even further. So, if these clefts are already lubed, applying more lube does not help anything.It's not necessary to coat the chain thickly with grease.
Also it is not necessary to spray/apply on the inside of the chain.
Spray lubes contain a bit of solvent which makes them fluid enough to spread on their own and creep into the clefts. When the solvent has evaporated, a thin film of lube remains. So after spraying you can wipe of any excess which anyway would fly off the next time you go for a ride.
What I wrote here is true for bikes which see no or rarely rain/wet streets. Water and the fine silt in the water from the street are the worst enemies of the chain. When your chain has gotten wet, dry clean and lube as soon as possible. If you ride regularly in detrimental weather, a permanent oiling device might be a good solution to enjoy a long chain life.
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when I lube my chain, ill heft the throttle a few times while it's on the stand, that way any excess is thrown off there where you have a towel handy and it's not getting all over your back while riding. One thing i have also noticed is, the front sprocket guard, take that off and clean in there too, it's amazing how much crap will accumulate in there! You'll get a huge blob of basically lube and road mud all caked up in there. Also by giving a little rotation while the bike is on the chocks, you can also check the chain again for proper tension, now that it's fully seated and everything is settled in like it will be when riding. Once you've done this a few times, you become familiar with how your chain normally sounds, so if there is a bit of a misalignment or tightness just isn't right, you may be able to hear that real quick, and able to adjust it while it's right there hefted up.
Aaron
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Pretty odd that all motorcycle chain dimensions are in inches and not metric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiWxgSuvWT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091PDQVK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Tool required to remove front sprocket nut
Everything else:
Just a question about the tool: I am planning to do the work myself changing the sprockets and chain. I have a SS9, but I assume it is identical on my bike. The tool you need, does it have internal studs ?
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Not sure if the SS9 has the same sprocket nut, I assume it does. Others can chime in.
The tool with internal teeth is stronger than the tools with external teeth. More resistant to bending. However, both types should work.
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Aha, thanx - I thought those were different tools, but now, after consulting with the almighty google, I have seen my erroundous ways.
I think I'll go with the tool with internal stubs - the nm needed is very high, so no chances taken there.
I am 99% positive it is identical on Ribelle and SS9, as everything else is the same (chain lenght, sprocket specs, etc). The two bikes share a lot: Brakes, frame, wheel/tyres, some of the plastics, etc.
If not, I can always return parts not usable.
Thaaaaaaaanx for the reply!
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Aha, thanx - I thought those were different tools, but now, after consulting with the almighty google, I have seen my erroundous ways.
I think I'll go with the tool with internal stubs - the nm needed is very high, so no chances taken there.
I am 99% positive it is identical on Ribelle and SS9, as everything else is the same (chain lenght, sprocket specs, etc). The two bikes share a lot: Brakes, frame, wheel/tyres, some of the plastics, etc.
If not, I can always return parts not usable.
Thaaaaaaaanx for the reply!
Even the Experia uses the same sprocket nut and tool....although the Experia chain is 520 and rear sprocket is aluminium.
Smithy.
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Finally got around to changing the chain and sprockets that I had purchased a while back.
The front sprocket retaining nut was finger tight. I had never touched it until now at 7k miles. Must have been neglected when assembled. That could have been unfortunate.
Tight now, and I used thread lock in addition to the locking washer.
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Rear Sprocket
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Nice job, Pard!
The front sprocket retaining nut was finger tight. I had never touched it until now at 7k miles. Must have been neglected when assembled. That could have been unfortunate.
Tight now, and I used thread lock in addition to the locking washer.
Yeah, loosing the front sprocket while riding would have been catastrophic! That reminds me that also on my bike the nut was assebled wrong, i.e. with the chamfered side looking toward the outside. It's good that there is a locking washer for additional safety.
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Catastrophic in more than one way, I don't think the motor could come down from such an unloading quick enough before some centrifugal damage may occur if it happened at high speeds. The moment that thing let loose and you have 100 hp or so trying to spin that thing to the moon. Granted the electrical forces would try to bring it back once it went forward of the phase angle but still. It'd be like when a generator slips a pole, thats a bad day.
If it did get that loose I think you'd have plenty of warning that things were going wrong, that thing has to come off a bit before it fully clears and that would skew your chain alignment bad enough to really be seen and felt id think
aaron