ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Richard230 on January 29, 2014, 05:34:04 AM
-
Terra Motors has announced their new Kiwami electric motorcycle. You can read about it here:
http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/terra-motors-kiwami---the-japanese-electric-motorcycle.htm (http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/terra-motors-kiwami---the-japanese-electric-motorcycle.htm)
I am not sure if a 10 kW motor is going to get the bike up to 160 kph, though. ???
-
Uh.
That's pretty clearly a 2013-14 Zero S ZF11.4 with some extra plastic and a different headlight.
-
"Our powerful original power train"
"Hand Made in Japan"
Hmmmm...
-
It has the 2013 Golden forks.
-
Good call. 2013 then.
-
I wonder what Zero think about that?.. maybe there is some business between them?
Doc
-
I'm sure Zero is happy to wholesale bikes to Terra. Though I'm a little surprised they have any 2013 bikes left - maybe that's why the 2013 supply seemed to dry up?
I know Zero does final assembly in California, as well as much of the electronics design. But most of the assemblies - frame, motor, battery modules, etc are produced in China to the best of my knowledge. I wonder if there is a risk that Zero could find Chinese manufacturers producing duplicates on the side, as GM and other automotive manufacturers have found in certain of their Chinese joint ventures.
-
I assume the 10 kW motor is a typo, and instead it means Zero's 2013 40 kW motor. Zero has at various times claimed superior motor torque to liter-bikes - which is true as far as that goes, and an excellent illustration of why motor torque is a near-useless metric on its own.
-
"I wonder if there is a risk that Zero could find Chinese manufacturers producing duplicates on the side, as GM and other automotive manufacturers have found in certain of their Chinese joint ventures."
Absolutely, there is.
-
So... I might have a bike to ride in japan next visit?!
-
So... I might have a bike to ride in japan next visit?!
Sure, If you can afford it!
-
Look at the first and second picture, you can see the BMS led window in the same position as it is on the Zero bikes. So the battery compartment is the same design.
I'll wager that the electronics are the same too.
This really looks like a rebadged Zero S, maybe Zero did offloaded it's surplus 2013 stock to Terra motors...
-
I imagine the Japanese like to buy domestic vehicles so Terra may just be tarting up and rebadging Zero's to give the impression they are buying local.
-
The Kiwami is mentioned at the end of this article discussing Indian motorcycles by Ride Apart. In this article they say the bike has a range of 200 miles :O and costs $18,000. :confused:
http://rideapart.com/2014/01/why-your-next-bike-may-come-from-india/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29 (http://rideapart.com/2014/01/why-your-next-bike-may-come-from-india/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29)
If the Kiwami is using Zero's new Z-force motor than I could really believe that it is a re-badged Zero, otherwise it might be just a collection of Zero parts bought off-the-shelf from their Asian manufacturers. ???
-
Having given it some thought, I'd say the most likely possibility is that Zero does'nt feel it has the experience needed to enter the Asian market, and has licenced their bike to a Japanese company who does have the necessary experience.
-
RideApart is wrong. Terra claims 200 km.
-
The Kiwami is mentioned at the end of this article discussing Indian motorcycles by Ride Apart. In this article they say the bike has a range of 200 miles :O and costs $18,000. :confused:
http://rideapart.com/2014/01/why-your-next-bike-may-come-from-india/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29 (http://rideapart.com/2014/01/why-your-next-bike-may-come-from-india/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29)
If the Kiwami is using Zero's new Z-force motor than I could really believe that it is a re-badged Zero, otherwise it might be just a collection of Zero parts bought off-the-shelf from their Asian manufacturers. ???
Tim obviously forgot that the range was in Kms, or a type. In the mean time, I've reached out to Zero to get an answer. Will post here when the reply...
-
http://www.terra-motors.com/kiwami/ (http://www.terra-motors.com/kiwami/)
Looking at some of the pictures on the Features page I think I can see the cooling fins of the Z-force motor.
-
http://www.terra-motors.com/kiwami/ (http://www.terra-motors.com/kiwami/)
Looking at some of the pictures on the Features page I think I can see the cooling fins of the Z-force motor.
They quote a motor "capacity" of 10 kW. Isn't the Z-force motor a lot more powerful than that? The Zero spec sheet says 40 kW. Very curious.
-
Some possibilities:
1. Terra Motors is wrong about the motor power. Likely, if they're using Zero's motor.
2. Terra Motors is wrong about the top speed and "liter-bike acceleration". I assume they're wrong about the latter in any case, but rather mean that it has liter-bike motor torque.
3. Terra is quoting motor continuous power, and peak power is closer to 30+ kW to meet their performance claims.
Most likely explanation IMO is that they're using Zero's 40 kW motor and their power spec is just wrong.
-
Or in the article when they say 10kw motor power they actually mean 10kwh battery capacity?
-
My latest guess is that Zero has partnered with Terra Motors to distribute their motorcycles within Asian companies, with Terra Motors performing a little styling update so that the bikes don't look so much like U.S. and Euro Zeros. I doubt that Zero wants to have to deal with all of the various Asian countries, such as India, and the complexities of selling, distributing and servicing vehicles in that part of the world. It would be a lot easier to just sell the bikes to Terra and let them set up a distribution network and deal with each country's DMV regulations.
Liveforphysics has just confirmed on elmoto that the bike is a restyled Zero, based upon looking at the photos.
-
All this speculation and spec vomit make me think about the TTXGP bench racing we do ;)
-
All this speculation and spec vomit make me think about the TTXGP bench racing we do ;)
It is still nothing like an "oil thread" on an IC forum. ;D
-
All this speculation and spec vomit make me think about the TTXGP bench racing we do ;)
It is still nothing like an "oil thread" on an IC forum. ;D
It could!
I've got an Empulse ;)
-
Frodus: what is the best oil for your empluse?
Sorry, could not resist.... resume the speculations.
-
Synthetic 10W-30 API GL-1 Motorcycle oil (wet clutch approved) (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/10w-30-advanced-synthetic-motorcycle-oil/)
-
"And then the gearbox vrs no gearbox debate broke out again..." ;)
-
"And then the gearbox vrs no gearbox debate broke out again..." ;)
On elmoto gearboxes are no longer permitted to be discussed due to concussions caused by people hitting their heads against the wall every time the subject comes up. ;D
-
The 10KW maybe has an easy explanation.
I don't know how it is in Japan (maybe Electric Cowboy knows) but in Europe the bike are like this (from Zeros Homepage)
There are different licencing criteria for electric motorcycles in the EU. The main difference is that, unlike internal combustion engine (ICE, or petrol engine) motorcycles which are rated on max power, electric motorcycles are rated and homologated on continuous power.
Therefore my 2012 DS has 9KW in the papers but 21KW Peak ;)
-
The 10KW maybe has an easy explanation.
I don't know how it is in Japan (maybe Electric Cowboy knows) but in Europe the bike are like this (from Zeros Homepage)
There are different licencing criteria for electric motorcycles in the EU. The main difference is that, unlike internal combustion engine (ICE, or petrol engine) motorcycles which are rated on max power, electric motorcycles are rated and homologated on continuous power.
Therefore my 2012 DS has 9KW in the papers but 21KW Peak ;)
Perhaps but even so, the ZForce motor is more than 10kw sustained.
-
Here is the answer of Zero
To answer your question about the Terra Motors
-This product and announcement is a complete surprise to Zero
-They bought two of our bikes (a Zero S and a Zero DS ) to evaluate Zero powertrains for potential use in future vehicles
-Zero do not have a contract / supply agreement in place with them for the use of a Zero S to be repurposed as a Kiwami motorcycle
So it looks like a cowboy operation.....
-
How impertinent is this!
I know they had copied every thing of our technology at the beginning of Japans rise but now being a high-tech country it is a real shame!
-
Strange for the Japanese to be so brazen in their copyright abuse. You expect it in China but I thought they are better than that. I don't know whether they subscribe to international agreements or whether Zero are powerless to stop it.
-
I thought the same thing. You would not expect this sort of thing to come from Japan. ??? Not only have they made a clone of the Zero but they even made a close copy of Zero's website (although with a lot less detail provided). And they are asking for dealers to sign up. I wonder where they expect to get the additional Zero models to repaint and resell? It is a strange operation, especially as they went to all the "trouble" of spreading the news all over the internet, thereby alerting Zero to their plans - whatever those are. :( My guess is that their supply of Zeros is going to dry up pretty quickly. ::)
-
I thought the same thing. You would not expect this sort of thing to come from Japan. ??? Not only have they made a clone of the Zero but they even made a close copy of Zero's website (although with a lot less detail provided). And they are asking for dealers to sign up. I wonder where they expect to get the additional Zero models to repaint and resell? It is a strange operation, especially as they went to all the "trouble" of spreading the news all over the internet, thereby alerting Zero to their plans - whatever those are. :( My guess is that their supply of Zeros is going to dry up pretty quickly. ::)
yeah, Zero was shocked when I contacted them. This smells of reverse engineering. Sue the b*stards
-
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/ (http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/)
AutoBlog did some research before regurgitating the information from the press release.
-ryan
-
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/ (http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/)
AutoBlog did some research before regurgitating the information from the press release.
-ryan
That's funny, since there wasn't a press release initially. And they didn't research, since I contacted Zero and got that ball rolling. They just forgot to credit my "work"... :D
-
That was my next question, whether Zero knew about this. Will be interested to see what happens as this plays out.
-
More from autoblog.com. Don't forget to watch the video and read Terra's press release. What were these guys thinking? ::)
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/ (http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/31/terra-motors-kiwami-electric-motorcycle-really-zero-s/)
-
This is not very Japanese. There must have been either a mistake in communication, or these guys are cool with dishonoring their name and tarnishing their company.
I think it is pretty likely there was a miscommunication somewhere since Japanese culture and language is so different from american. Also both cultures have nuances not in the others. Sarcasm for example does not exist in Japan, and so they do not know what is going on when someone is being sarcastic. Also, in Japanese people do not have to say many words to convey a though as conversations set up a base of variables basically that are assumed throughout the conversation so they need not ever be said again until they change. This often times creates confusion for Americans when speaking with Japanese, and also leads to Japanese thinking they understand Americans when really they have no idea what is going on.
All that being said though... Hand crafted in Japan for India's roads??? For real??? I think it's time for someone to get out the white sheets and short sword...
-Brandon
-
That is what I was thinking too EC :) I am a huge fan of Japan and was even going to move there at one point and this seems like miss communication to me.
-
Their press release says that the company was founded in 2010, with headquarters based in Shibuya, Tokyo, and with branches in Vietnam and the Philippines. They claim to have 1,000 dealers and 3,000 "service networks" in Japan. They also claim that their motorcycle is "absolutely handbuilt with Japanese state-of-the-art technology." To me these statements just don't ring true, no matter what language they translate into. ???
-
I have talked to some of my Japanese bike contacts... Apparently Terra is known for being a shady company with questionable methods and a CEO that wants things now and doesn't want to pay for them. They told me he does not act Japanese and hope this doesn't effect Zeros relations with Japan.