ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on March 04, 2015, 04:26:41 AM
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Rideapart rode a 2015 Zero SR around the Scotts Valley area for 20 miles and has published a review of the bike. Unfortunately, the included video is not all that interesting - unless you like nice scenery.
https://rideapart.com/articles/2015-zero-sr-electric-motorcycle-review?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29
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"It didn't feel overwhelmingly powerful" - She appears to be a small woman in the photo, I would have thought that the SR would feel like a rocket with a small person on it. I wonder what she is used to riding?
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Unfortunately, the included video is not all that interesting - unless you like nice scenery
You know what video reviewers are going to have to learn to do as electric bikes get more popular...?
Windshield their freeking microphones...
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"It didn't feel overwhelmingly powerful" - She appears to be a small woman in the photo, I would have thought that the SR would feel like a rocket with a small person on it. I wonder what she is used to riding?
She claimed to be an ex-AFM motorcycle race corner worker. Maybe that has jaded her view of street motorcycle performance. ::)
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"It didn't feel overwhelmingly powerful" - She appears to be a small woman in the photo, I would have thought that the SR would feel like a rocket with a small person on it. I wonder what she is used to riding?
Even though the bike glided along these roads nicely and pulled well with all of its 106 lb-t torque, it didn’t feel overwhelmingly powerful. It can probably be compared to the power of a 600cc sport bike.
Modern "middleweight" sport bikes make about 100-120 hp peak. SR is doing pretty good if that's the "seat of the pants" comparison point with 70 ish hp.
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"It didn't feel overwhelmingly powerful" - She appears to be a small woman in the photo, I would have thought that the SR would feel like a rocket with a small person on it. I wonder what she is used to riding?
Even though the bike glided along these roads nicely and pulled well with all of its 106 lb-t torque, it didn’t feel overwhelmingly powerful. It can probably be compared to the power of a 600cc sport bike.
Modern "middleweight" sport bikes make about 100-120 hp peak. SR is doing pretty good if that's the "seat of the pants" comparison point with 70 ish hp.
Except that it's torque that accelerates the bike and the SR has much more than almost anything out there. I personally would say that the SR's acceleration is overwhelmingly powerful, especially in the mid-range. I have friends who own supersport bikes who have ridden my Zero and they agree.
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This brings up something I've been pondering for a long time. There is no doubt that torque is a key factor with acceleration, but I also think power has a big part to play.
We don't ride our motorcycles in a vacuum which means that we get significant amounts of drag. It's power that determines top speed. I think there is an interplay between torque and power such that the more power available, the more is left over for acceleration once drag has been countered.
The two key equations are:
Power = force x velocity
Force = mass x acceleration
Having lots of torque gives us lots of force at the back wheel to push the bike forward. That leads to good acceleration. However as the speed increases and thus the drag, it is power that determines how much force is available for acceleration once the drag is countered. I hope that makes sense...
With the SR, you have lots of torque but not so much power. Lots of acceleration until the drag really kicks in above 60mph. I'd be very interested to learn how long it takes the SR to accelerate from 80-100mph.
I think that might have something to do with the reviewer's comments.
Also, we must not forget that gearboxes multiply the torque available at the back wheel. A high revving sports bike could reach 100mph in 2nd gear. Even though the engine might produce less torque than the SR, 2nd gear will mean more is available at the back wheel. Along with having more power than the SR and being more aerodynamically efficient, the sports bike will get to 100 quicker.
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Yep, this is pretty much the argument Brammo used for their transmission. However, you don't ride an electric bike that way. Hitting 70 absolutely munches on the battery because of the V-squared drag term, so I spend my time railing around town since it's a total traffic weapon with the light weight, all the torque, and NO NEED TO SHIFT.
As far as I can tell (only talked to 2 Brammo owners) I think anyone actually riding a Brammo sticks it in 2nd or 3rd and leaves it there unless they're drag racing sportbikes. So basically the transmission ends up being dead weight and a nip on efficiency.
Power-wise, my SR is not down too much at 75-80mph from my SV-650. It's definitely not a CBR-600, but if I had a little nuclear reactor feeding the motor, I wouldn't mind the expressway or the interstate.
Sure, if power is king, as in racing, you'd want a transmission. Unfortunately you have limited batteries, so you can't be squirting it all out at once.
I'm not interested in 0-100... 0-60 is where it's at with batteries, and that "insignificant difference" really colors things.
Transmissions and water-cooled motors need to wait for battery capacity to catch up.
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I was riding with a friend today on Skyline Boulevard in the Santa Cruz Mountains. He was riding a BMW F800GT (top speed about 120 mph) and he took off down the road and left me in the dust. About 5 miles further I saw him pulled over at an overlook parking lot by the side of the road, with a sheriff's car behind him with its lights flashing. The sheriff seemed to be doing a lot of writing. As I rode by, he gave me a sheepish grin and waved. I waved back and kept right on riding. I bet I got home long before he did. There is such a thing as having too much power. ;)
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Exactly right, Richard. That's why I traded in my Gixxer 1000. I was speeding far too much and after a couple of close calls, decided I had the crazy fast acceleration and speed out of my system. I had a couple of cops look askance at me, but never got a ticket, although that was just good luck. Far as I know there is no law against accelerating too quickly, so if the speed limit is 70 mph, you could get there in 3 seconds legally, provided you weren't deemed riding recklessly. That is one way you can still have fun on a bike that has a lower top speed like the Zero. They do get you out ahead of all the traffic effortlessly.
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I'd just like to point out that my intention was not to demean the SR in any way at all. If I could afford one I would have one. I suppose I find it interesting that electric bikes in general have bags of instant torque, but not necessarily lots of power to go with it. I know the reasons why and also know that as battery technology improves, electric bikes will out-perform their ICE equivalents on every metric.
As another forum member said, the SR is the king of the commute.
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I just know that I haven't lost a stoplight race yet - not that I have had that many but lately the nice weather has more bikes on the road and well...things happen. A big KTM pulled up next to me over the weekend at a red light and we nodded to each other. He was revving and when the light changed he took off so hard he wheelied but I still shot out ahead of him and continued pulling away. He gave me a big wide-eyed thumbs-up when he caught me later in traffic. The SR may not be as quick as a well-ridden superbike, and no Zero can touch a high-end bike in top speed but where can you ride 150 mph on the street? Great for the track and bench racing but wasted on the majority of riders. I took mine up to 90 yesterday on a back road and that was pretty close to as fast as I care to ride - and it got there in a hurry with very good acceleration on the high end. There may be quicker bikes out there but the incredibly easy acces to the SR's acceleration makes it tough to beat in the real world.
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I'd be very interested to learn how long it takes the SR to accelerate from 80-100mph.
I opened up the throttle while already going 75 MPH, for about 2 seconds - when I glanced down at the dash I found that I was going 96 MPH.
I think Zero should follow Tesla's example and change the name of the 'Sport' mode to 'Insane'
:)
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Well, all I can say is that you SR owners out there are lucky, lucky people! Thanks oobflyer at al. [emoji106]
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I opened up the throttle while already going 75 MPH, for about 2 seconds - when I glanced down at the dash I found that I was going 96 MPH.
I've managed to surprise myself a couple of times that way too. You keep thinking -- knowing -- all that torque is going to run out and you're going to run up against the flat top end, but it never seems to come. I KNOW this bike only has 67 hp, why does it seem to have such long legs? Maybe I'm just too old to be disappointed by a mediocre top speed.
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Motorcycle Consumer News, in spite of getting a mediocre 0-60 time with a heavy rider and Power Tank, dyno'd the '14 SR and got 72.8 HP and 109 LB.-FT...and that was at the rear wheel so Zero's numbers appear to be on the conservative side.
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OFC it's on the rear wheel ????
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OFC it's on the rear wheel ????
Ken, often horsepower and torque numbers are tested at the motor's output shaft rather than at the rear wheel. That gives slightly higher numbers because you aren't adversely affected by drivetrain losses.
Although neither a belt drive nor chain drive lose very much...they're both very efficient drivetrains.
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OFC it's on the rear wheel ????
Ken, often horsepower and torque numbers are tested at the motor's output shaft rather than at the rear wheel. That gives slightly higher numbers because you aren't adversely affected by drivetrain losses.
Although neither a belt drive nor chain drive lose very much...they're both very efficient drivetrains.
And a Zero isn't suffering clutch slippage or transmission losses either :)
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I have heard that a 15% power loss is the rule-of-thumb for a typical IC motorcycle engine with chain drive, between the crankshaft and the rear wheel. Maybe as much as 20% when shaft-drive is used. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Zero drive train is about 95% efficient. :)
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As far as I can tell (only talked to 2 Brammo owners) I think anyone actually riding a Brammo sticks it in 2nd or 3rd and leaves it there unless they're drag racing sportbikes. So basically the transmission ends up being dead weight and a nip on efficiency.
I can only speak to the way I ride my Empluse R. I start in 1st gear ~90% of the time, occasionally I will start in 2nd. I almost always have it in Sport mode. My accelerations are "spirited" but not wide open and I generally stay pretty close to the speed limit. I tend to let the motor rev and normally ride with the RPM between 4k and 5k so I don't shift as frequently as I do on my ICE bike and rarely use 5th or 6th gear, but I still shift quite a bit. I have tried leaving it in 2nd or 3rd and just don't enjoy it nearly as much as utilizing the transmission.
Most of my rides are short enough that range is not a concern so I make no effort to ride efficiently. My motorcycle is a toy that happens to provide transportation, but it is still a toy and I ride it as such. I am fortunate to have several beautify twisty canyon rides available without requiring me to recharge en-route as well as having public J1772 charging stations available if needed.
I test rode the 2014 Zero S and the 2014 Brammo Empluse R back to back. My preference for the Brammo was in large part the suspension, brakes, on board charger, and the transmission. I found the riding experience to be more enjoyable on the Brammo, though the performance, lower sound level, and lower maintenance of the 2015 Zero SR had some appeal. Others will have different priorities and many will choose different bikes.
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Most of my rides are short enough that range is not a concern so I make no effort to ride efficiently. My motorcycle is a toy that happens to provide transportation, but it is still a toy and I ride it as such. I am fortunate to have several beautify twisty canyon rides available without requiring me to recharge en-route as well as having public J1772 charging stations available if needed.
I test rode the 2014 Zero S and the 2014 Brammo Empluse R back to back. My preference for the Brammo was in large part the suspension, brakes, on board charger, and the transmission. I found the riding experience to be more enjoyable on the Brammo, though the performance, lower sound level, and lower maintenance of the 2015 Zero SR had some appeal. Others will have different priorities and many will choose different bikes.
Jealous, sounds like you live in a perfect ebike environment (LA?). I look forward to experimenting with my Brammo R now that this long winter is finally over.
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I am about half way between LA and Santa Barbara. It's expensive to live here, but I don't miss shoveling snow and I get to play with most of my toys year round.
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I am about half way between LA and Santa Barbara. It's expensive to live here, but I don't miss shoveling snow and I get to play with most of my toys year round.
Ohhh, you get to play on rt 33 out of Ojai don't you? I officially hate you, but commend your great taste in bikes >:(
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After 2+ months of riding my 2015 SR, I can say that I love it... but mildly wish it had more power (my last bike was a Honda 1000RR).
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After 2+ months of riding my 2015 SR, I can say that I love it... but mildly wish it had more power (my last bike was a Honda 1000RR).
With 170+ horsepower plus roughly 80 pound feet of torque it's no wonder - you're spoiled! But I'll bet you the SR is far more comfortable. How does the Zero compare in midrange acceleration? That is where the SR feels the strongest to me.
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After 2+ months of riding my 2015 SR, I can say that I love it... but mildly wish it had more power (my last bike was a Honda 1000RR).
With 170+ horsepower plus roughly 80 pound feet of torque it's no wonder - you're spoiled! But I'll bet you the SR is far more comfortable. How does the Zero compare in midrange acceleration? That is where the SR feels the strongest to me.
The Zero is comparable in low and mid range acceleration. Get the RPM's up there, and the 1000RR beats it for sure. It's a different feeling, so it's tough to compare. The underlying thing I can state when comparing the two is that the Zero is so easy to ride fast. Twist and go. It's awesome, and way more fun. I'll never go back.
And yes, the superbike riding position of the 1000RR is the main reason I got a new bike... I'm getting old :-(
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I'm hoping to pull the trigger on a Honda NC750S DCT within the next week or two. It's the closest I'll get to the experience of riding a Zero whilst being affordable (for me).
There's no doubt in my mind that it won't be as much fun as an SR or my current Fazer 1000. It'll use half the fuel of the latter though and will be more practical and chilled out for my commute.
I'll report back to you all on how it all goes. In my mind the Honda will be a stop-gap for a few years until bikes like the SR become more affordable and dealership support is provided here in London, UK.
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In a recent conversation with a Honda salesperson, I was told that the Honda DCT system was very popular with new riders and has helped the sales of their newer models and was bringing in more new riders to the sport. :)
I continue to believe that electric motorcycle sales will really take off some day once the initial purchase price can be brought down to IC motorcycle levels. That will only occur when batteries become more power dense and less expensive. It will take a while, but it will happen. :)
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I'm hoping to pull the trigger on a Honda NC750S DCT within the next week or two. It's the closest I'll get to the experience of riding a Zero whilst being affordable (for me).
There's no doubt in my mind that it won't be as much fun as an SR or my current Fazer 1000. It'll use half the fuel of the latter though and will be more practical and chilled out for my commute.
I'll report back to you all on how it all goes. In my mind the Honda will be a stop-gap for a few years until bikes like the SR become more affordable and dealership support is provided here in London, UK.
I test rode a Honda NC700X DCT (I don't think we get the S here, and we don't get the 750 either) and was very impressed. I am looking to replace my scooter with something a little more freeway capable for longer rides beyond the Zero's range. The Honda is very easy to ride, has a comfortable upright seating position and it feels way lighter than its 500 lbs due to its impressively low center of gravity. I actually like the added weight for better high-speed stability. The faux-tank storage is a strong point as that is one of the things I really like about my scooter for running errands. The double clutch transmission works well but it is a little clunky. I have a BMW M car and its DCT is WAY smoother and more refined. At least on the Honda you have real gears that you can control if you want to and not a power-robbing CVT. I tried all the shift modes and as soon as I put it in manual with the paddles, or rather buttons, I immediately hit the rev limiter. The redline is really low, around 6500 rpm, so short-shifting is mandatory. It is no speed demon, but it has decent torque and responds quickly - it's just that there isn't a whole lot of acceleration after the initial response but it's really not too bad. It's not quite an SR :) but it's a fun ride. At least it's faster than my scooter! I am looking at other motorcycles too but when I get on a standard bike and grab the clutch I realize that I don't miss it at all. In fact, I think I'm a better and safer rider not having to think about changing gears. I think you would probably really like the Honda. I have been lurking on their forum and the bike has a very devoted following and it has also been very well reviewed and gets exceptional mileage - up to 70 mpg in our gallons. I think it is a very good choice and as far as a hand-clutchless ICE bike with a real transmission it's the only game in town. I may very well buy one myself as I am quite taken with it. Would love to hear your thoughts if you get one.
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After 2+ months of riding my 2015 SR, I can say that I love it... but mildly wish it had more power (my last bike was a Honda 1000RR).
Interesting - my last sport bike was a Honda CBR1000 - no doubt it was powerful, but at speeds below 100 MPH my SR feels more powerful. One big advantage is the fact that I don't have to be quick with the clutch and gearshift lever.
I've been telling everyone that it's a two-wheeled Tesla ;-)
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The SR is probably safer than super bikes too. It's easy to make a mistake and get a whiskey throttle, or spin or lock up the rear wheel. Plus if you are like me, you just have to find out what 150 mph feels like where bad things happen fast.
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The SR is probably safer than super bikes too. It's easy to make a mistake and get a whiskey throttle, or spin or lock up the rear wheel. Plus if you are like me, you just have to find out what 150 mph feels like where bad things happen fast.
Electrics aren't immune to whiskey throttle either. It amazes me that people get on totally unfamiliar bikes with no gear and have at it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vaYvuYXalmU
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Thanks for your long post earlier in this thread Michael. I put down a deposit on an NC750S DCT today. My dreams of becoming an EV rider are parked for a few years. However, my choice of ICE bike certainly reflects the impact that riding a few zeros has had on me.
I'll post a topic in General when I've had the bike for a few weeks and let you all know my thoughts.
I hope to be in the market for a 2020 SR. I expect it to cost no more than £10,000 in today's money. For that I expect a minimum range of 150 miles at an average speed of 80 mph, fast charging, great components throughout and a ten year warranty on all parts except consumables. Take note Zero!
By then I expect all the major players to be in the game and for Zero to have been swallowed up by one of them, even if the brand continues.
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Thanks for your long post earlier in this thread Michael. I put down a deposit on an NC750S DCT today. My dreams of becoming an EV rider are parked for a few years. However, my choice of ICE bike certainly reflects the impact that riding a few zeros has had on me.
I'll post a topic in General when I've had the bike for a few weeks and let you all know my thoughts.
I hope to be in the market for a 2020 SR. I expect it to cost no more than £10,000 in today's money. For that I expect a minimum range of 150 miles at an average speed of 80 mph, fast charging, great components throughout and a ten year warranty on all parts except consumables. Take note Zero!
By then I expect all the major players to be in the game and for Zero to have been swallowed up by one of them, even if the brand continues.
You are welcome and yours is a very timely post I might add - I traded my scooter in today for the Honda. I said that you would probably like the Honda but let me amend that...you will love it! I put 44 miles on it today and I am even more impressed than I was on the test ride. It is smooth, extremely well-balanced (the low center of gravity does wonders), very comfortable, incredibly easy to ride, plenty powerful, sounds good (at least to me, I'm not a fan of really loud bikes) and is just plain fun. It had gotten to the point where I wasn't riding my scooter at all but that won't be a problem with the Honda - it will get ridden a lot. Of course the SR is quicker but the Honda accelerates just fine and gets off the line quite well. The DCT is great, I kept it in Sport Mode most of the time because in Drive it shifts up too quickly for my taste. You can switch to manual whenever you want which I did from time to time just for fun. When I took it on the freeway I was really impressed with its stability and composure - smooth and relaxed - it actually feels better at cruising speed than the SR. And it has a frunk...and it gets great mileage...and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg...and it looks good. This thing has all the bases covered for me. Yours, being a 750, will even have a little more power than mine. I am sure that this bike will make you very happy.
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Wow! You didn't hang around Michael! Did you buy a brand new or second hand model? If brand new, I'm surprised you can't get the 750?
It sounds like you're having bags of fun with it already. I've had to do a lot of soul searching to take the plunge with the Honda as it effectively ends my quest to go electric for the time being.
Even though you've beat me to getting the Honda, I'll probably still post a topic in a few weeks time to let you know how I'm getting on with it.
I get the impression that Honda really think things through when coming up with new bikes. I can't wait to see what they bring to the table when they launch their first EV bike.
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I got mine new from the same dealership where I bought the Zero so they made me a good deal and gave me more than a fair price on the trade-in. I have no idea why we can't get the 750 on our side of the world - consider yourself lucky. Please do post your thoughts when you get yours. Now, for the first time in months, when I go into the garage to hop on a motorbike the choice won't be so easy.