ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Lightning => Topic started by: NEW2elec on April 03, 2019, 11:25:51 AM
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As I've posted before I'm torn between the companie's success in competition and record setting and some questionable production performance. But maybe that's just me.
The stats listed sound really good, though some of the facts don't add up, that could be an early misquote or mixed up numbers from the writers end.
So who has heard enough to put down a deposit?
How much more would someone need to see to convince them to get onboard if they are on the fence?
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I know people who have reserved $500 but I don't know of any who've put down the $10,000 necessary for initial delivery carbon 20kwh with fast DC.
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Not me. I live in North Carolina and no dealer network means the potential of shipping the bike back to California if there are problems is a deal killer. When Energica dropped their prices I asked whether or not they would consider selling and servicing one out of their Morrisville, NC office and they said yes. That is in spite of Morrisville being their US distributor location and not technically a dealer. When I had a problem with the bike they flew out and drove to my home to work on it. I would really like a Brutus V9 with a 33.7 kWh battery and the reason I never got one was they are out of Vegas and I would have to deal with the same no dealer scenario.
I really thought the Strike was going to be a street fighter style instead of a sport bike. I think the market is a lot larger for something with a more upright riding position. Lightning used a lot of teaser shots just like Zero and others have done. But when the day came for the big reveal Zero had far more information on the web site and it was front and center there. I am not impressed at all with Lightning's approach to the Strike. Details are still buried on the website where most will never find them. Why?
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When Electric Motorsport, located in Oakland, CA, first started selling their production GPR-S bikes via the internet and shipping them to customers homes in boxes in 2008, they would fly a technician (likely their only one) out to a buyers home to fix a problem. I recall at least one person on the east coast (I think it was NY) who had an issue and the fellow flew out to his home and stayed there overnight while he made repairs to get the GPR-S working again. Apparently that got old really fast, even though they had sold very few bikes by then. So EMS transitioned very quickly to a mom and pop retail dealer network, changed their name to "Native", and let their new dealers deal with warranty and mechanical problems. Once they did that it didn't take long for the mom and pop e-bike shops to be crushed under the weight of the responsibilities of a franchised vehicle dealer, leading to most of the shops closing (like mine - The Electric Green Store).
One shop that hung in there was Hollywood Electric, but when Zero arrived on their showroom floor, it didn't take long for Zero to displace their Native sales. :)
Eventually EMS transitioned again to U-build-it-yourself kits and now I believe they just sell electrical power train parts. ???
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Ok so the lack of a dealer network is a sticking point. That would be hard to fix in a short period of time but maybe a four corners approach to tech centers sort of like Energica does. Not a vast network but not cross country.
Speaking of Hollywood Electrics and Energica I remember them being one of, if not the first, Energica dealer in the U.S. but dropped them.
I wonder if they would carry Lightning? Of course Zero may have a no competition clause for their dealers so it might not be an option.
I know I want to see a video interview/ride of the Strike with an outside reviewer or even an in house mock interview just to get a better picture of what it is and does.
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Speaking of Hollywood Electrics and Energica I remember them being one of, if not the first, Energica dealer in the U.S. but dropped them.
I wonder if they would carry Lightning? Of course Zero may have a no competition clause for their dealers so it might not be an option.
I think HE would stock them if they can get stock.
If Zero has a no-compete clause, it's loosely enforced.
https://www.af1racingaustin.com/ stocks both Energica and Zero bikes.
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Team Powersports in Raleigh, NC carries both Zero and Energica.
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You both are correct. I knew about AF1 but forgot when I was guessing at why HE dropped Energica.
So that drops that barrier to a dealership picking them up. At least from Zero's side.
Richard Hatfield told Jay Leno that the LS218 used Li ion batteries back in the old review video, so I assume the Strike uses them as well.
Some of the weight numbers for the Strike could be the lighter Lipo cells like Energica uses if their weight stats are correct from their webpage.
I'm also still wondering why the LS218 with the 20kWh battery is almost $47k while the Carbon Strike with 20kWh battery is only $20k.
The only real difference seems to be the motor and maybe controller.
From the stats the LS218 has 20 more lb-ft of torque and a bit higher HP but the 218 top speed was achieved with higher gears and an aerodynamic race pod so the stock bike is most likely closer to 185 MPH top speed which isn't much more than the Strike's 150 MPH claim.
Both get Brembo brakes and Ohlins suspension so where does the big price difference come from?
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I'm also still wondering why the LS218 with the 20kWh battery is almost $47k while the Carbon Strike with 20kWh battery is only $20k
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The LS218 was built to order in california, not mass produced in China. They only sold a total of 40 units since 2014. I would imagine that's why they were so expensive.
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> The LS218 was built to order in california, not mass produced in China. They only sold a total of 40 units since 2014. ...
That many? Where did you get that information?
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Yes, assembly line manufacturing and a well configured production logistics pipeline makes a huge difference in price.
Lightning presumably made some highly clever deals to get this all arranged. I think there’s some legerdemain regarding what cells go into different Strike models that accounts for the spec confusion.
I guess we’ll see what these bikes are like once delivered and logging miles for customers. And the plant might perform double duty to minimize investment risk before sales build up.
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Quote from Lightning's webpage :
"Lightning product development, design, engineering and final assembly takes place at Lightning’s new global headquarters and production facility in San Jose, California."
I know you can build things for a fraction of the cost in China. With CA being one of the most expensive places to do most anything.
The Lightning webpage is still mostly about the LS218. The price difference I pointed out speaks more to why don't they pass that cost savings on to the LS218 and sell them for $30k and sell a few hundred instead of 40 in five years. They haven't changed the LS218 price at all.
There were Lightning posts under a few categories but I seem to remember them saying the cheap bikes would be made in China and the Carbon bikes in CA.
There is something just not right here.
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Quote from Lightning's webpage :
"Lightning product development, design, engineering and final assembly takes place at Lightning’s new global headquarters and production facility in San Jose, California."
I know you can build things for a fraction of the cost in China. With CA being one of the most expensive places to do most anything.
The Lightning webpage is still mostly about the LS218. The price difference I pointed out speaks more to why don't they pass that cost savings on to the LS218 and sell them for $30k and sell a few hundred instead of 40 in five years. They haven't changed the LS218 price at all.
There were Lightning posts under a few categories but I seem to remember them saying the cheap bikes would be made in China and the Carbon bikes in CA.
There is something just not right here.
I really don't get the only $5K difference between the mid-grade and the Premium Strike, considering the cost of hand-laid carbon fiber parts, the cost of Ohlins suspension components, Brembo brake components, DC charging components and another 5kWh worth of batteries. The extra cost of those premium components is surely going to add up to much more than $5K. But then (of course) there is that $10K upfront deposit for that model. Something really strange is going on here. ::)
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> The LS218 was built to order in california, not mass produced in China. They only sold a total of 40 units since 2014. ...
That many? Where did you get that information?
Can't remember where I saw that, but if I do d it, I'll post a link.
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There were Lightning posts under a few categories but I seem to remember them saying the cheap bikes would be made in China and the Carbon bikes in CA.
There is something just not right here.
They said the carbon fiber bodywork for the Carbon would be made in-house in Californis, not the entire bike.
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Ok so the lack of a dealer network is a sticking point. That would be hard to fix in a short period of time but maybe a four corners approach to tech centers sort of like Energica does. Not a vast network but not cross country.
Speaking of Hollywood Electrics and Energica I remember them being one of, if not the first, Energica dealer in the U.S. but dropped them.
I wonder if they would carry Lightning? Of course Zero may have a no competition clause for their dealers so it might not be an option.
I know I want to see a video interview/ride of the Strike with an outside reviewer or even an in house mock interview just to get a better picture of what it is and does.
I really doubt any of their dealers/distributors (same thing in my country, where's there's a single importer/distributor/dealer; he's also the official Energica distributor, as well as various other electric 2-wheelers) have a non-compete clause -- there's not that many electric bikes being sold anywhere, and any e-motorcycle vendor (incl. Zero) should basically be very thankful for any dealer willing to sell their electrics as long as they provide decent support for them. I also expect a lot of the overall knowledge/experience is relevant for all e-motorcycles.
Also, in the US, wouldn't such a non-compete usually bump up against restraint-of-trade laws?
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> The LS218 was built to order in california, not mass produced in China. They only sold a total of 40 units since 2014. ...
That many? Where did you get that information?
I've only seen one source for that number, in some non-bike-focused publication, and it popped up the about the time when they started teasing the Strike.
Very questionable, since I've looked long & hard multiple times, and I've never ever seen a single road test of a Lightning bike, or even just a "first ride" review, anywhere -- not mainstream bike mags, not bike forums, not YouTube. Ditto for any kind of actual discussion by owners. And I've posted questions on several e-motorcycle related forums and never got any response from someone with any actual experience or information.
If there were any actual owners out there, one would expect there'd be some actual info.
Before that "40" number cropped up, the only number for sales ever mentioned was one bike, sold in 2014 (with no mention who it was sold to or what they're actually doing with the bike).
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Quote from Lightning's webpage :
"Lightning product development, design, engineering and final assembly takes place at Lightning’s new global headquarters and production facility in San Jose, California."
I know you can build things for a fraction of the cost in China. With CA being one of the most expensive places to do most anything.
The Lightning webpage is still mostly about the LS218. The price difference I pointed out speaks more to why don't they pass that cost savings on to the LS218 and sell them for $30k and sell a few hundred instead of 40 in five years. They haven't changed the LS218 price at all.
There were Lightning posts under a few categories but I seem to remember them saying the cheap bikes would be made in China and the Carbon bikes in CA.
There is something just not right here.
I really don't get the only $5K difference between the mid-grade and the Premium Strike, considering the cost of hand-laid carbon fiber parts, the cost of Ohlins suspension components, Brembo brake components, DC charging components and another 5kWh worth of batteries. The extra cost of those premium components is surely going to add up to much more than $5K. But then (of course) there is that $10K upfront deposit for that model. Something really strange is going on here. ::)
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I recall several sport-touring bikes with Standard and Upgraded versions, where the major difference was the suspension (all else was mostly just small-potato farkles) -- premium Öhlins components -- and the difference was ~$2k-$3K. E.g., Ducati's ST series. And that was for mass-produced bikes.
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I accepted there is not a no-compete clause for the dealers at this time.
I posted the video of the first sold bike presentation on one of the other Lightning threads. It was the only one I've seen as well.
They have new video from a panel discussion with Hatfield and others with Harlan on stage as well so we'll see what comes of that.
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I accepted there is not a no-compete clause for the dealers at this time.
I posted the video of the first sold bike presentation on one of the other Lightning threads. It was the only one I've seen as well.
They have new video from a panel discussion with Hatfield and others with Harlan on stage as well so we'll see what comes of that.
Can you post some links here? Deliveries weren't suppose to happen till July or so I've read.
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Sorry Alko, I was talking about the first LS218 model not the Strike.
But I guess I'll post the panel video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOzJqCkKYAg
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Is it just me or is there no audio with that vid?
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Others had the same comments but off my desktop I hear it just fine.
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Others had the same comments but off my desktop I hear it just fine.
Me too. Also on my desktop.
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So it's been over a month since the Strike reveal and not much else.
I will still try to give the company a chance to put out more info like I requested on their YT channel but so far no detailed videos of any version of the bike. I asked for info on warranty and repair procedures and no response.
They were saying July of 2019 for first deliveries of the carbon bike but it sure doesn't seem likely.
I've followed this company since before Pike's Peak and I'm just shy of begging Lightning to put out more info to help sell their own products.
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Richard Hatfield talks a good game, but so far he hasn't shown me that he can also be a good vehicle manufacturer. :( He has been advertising his motorcycles for sale for the past 5 years or so, but I have yet to hear of one being bought.
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Here is his display in 2014. I heard he sold one of these. Perhaps this is the one that was sold. ???
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Richard that was the show where the Lightning was under the same tent as the little scooter company from China.
There was an article of this show somewhere but I could never find it.
There was speculation then that they were going to team up to make mid range bikes and I have to assume they did.
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Richard that was the show where the Lightning was under the same tent as the little scooter company from China.
There was an article of this show somewhere but I could never find it.
There was speculation then that they were going to team up to make mid range bikes and I have to assume they did.
If they did, I never heard about it. There was some talk under the tent that someone local had bought that red model. I think it was a hand-built prototype. I vaguely recall that the price and claimed performance of that model was comparable to a 2012 Zero. ??? It certainly didn't impress me as being anything that would best my 2014 Zero in the marketplace.
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Richard that was the show where the Lightning was under the same tent as the little scooter company from China.
There was an article of this show somewhere but I could never find it.
There was speculation then that they were going to team up to make mid range bikes and I have to assume they did.
If they did, I never heard about it. There was some talk under the tent that someone local had bought that red model. I think it was a hand-built prototype. I vaguely recall that the price and claimed performance of that model was comparable to a 2012 Zero. ??? It certainly didn't impress me as being anything that would best my 2014 Zero in the marketplace.
It was more likely modified from an ICE bike prototype, because you can see the ICE fuel tank with filler cap.
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I popped over to Lightning for a visit with Richard to see the Strike. It looks really impressive, and I can't wait to ride one! He said they'll have a demo bike ready at the end of July (I assume the one I'm sitting on) and Carbon deliveries will happen around the same time / early August. He also showed me the color options, which are Blue, Yellow, and White.
Some other interesting info is that it is in fact belt driven, and has a reduction gear. I got him to turn it on and spin the wheel, and at low speed it's completely silent, like a Tesla. No cogging noise like the Zero. At higher speed, it sounds soooo insane. Ergonomics are similar to an R6.. seat was pretty comfy for how small it is. It also has a key fob instead of a physical key you insert somewhere. I'm super excited about this bike, and have a deposit down for one.. but I have to wait a while before I can take the plunge.
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mistasam,
You should try to convince Lightning to update their web site. There is still very little info on the Strike and what is there is buried so deep few will ever be able to find it. It looks like the LS-218 is still the only bike that Lightning is trying to sell.
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mistasam,
You should try to convince Lightning to update their web site. There is still very little info on the Strike and what is there is buried so deep few will ever be able to find it. It looks like the LS-218 is still the only bike that Lightning is trying to sell.
+1 Ultrarnr
Mistasam, your the Newzeroland guy right? Man your all over the place (NZ-CA).
Well it's good to see a forum member being able to give an inside scoop and please keep everyone posted on bike reviews through the process and first rides.
I'd also like to ask if you saw any bikes being built? I mean frames over here batteries over there, or just fully made bikes coming in and putting the mirrors and such on them.
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Unfortunately I haven't seen the production line recently. As far as I know, the major components are made in China and assembled in California, but the fairings and seats and internal bits of the motor are made in the US (fairings are made at the shop in San Jose). I'll try and keep in touch with them, but I had to put my reservation on hold for a while (everything is kinda on hold.. youtube, New Zealand stuff, etc) so my spot in line will be going to someone else.
I know there are a few Zero riders who've placed orders for these, so they'll be sharing more info in a few months. Once they have a test bike ready, all the magazines have reviews of it. And yeah, they need to update their website and seriously work on the marketing!
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Ok man, you sound a little down, I hope everything is ok. You seem so chill and cool on the YT channel so I'm sure things will work out well.
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I've been emailing Dave from Lightning the past few days since I've been on the fence between cancelling my Zero SR/F and getting the Lightning Strike Carbon Edition. Seems like if you order the carbon edition today, expect August/September delivery (if they are anything like Zero...I would expect at least 3 months past September). They also seem to be working on a dealer network (which is the main reason I went with the Zero, 10 minute drive from my house).
If Lightning gets a dealer near me, I will possibly trade in my Zero SR/F and pickup the carbon edition.
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Redblade, You should ask your Zero dealer if they would consider becoming a Lightning dealer. I have talked with my Zero/Energica dealer and they have no interest in Lightning which is not a good sign at all. There are other dealers out there that sell both Zero and Energica and they should be the first one's Lightning should approach about becoming dealers because it is obvious they know a thing or two about selling electric motorcycles. Just because you can design and produce an awesome electric motorcycle doesn't mean you are going to be successful. Without the right people marketing that awesome electric motorcycle you will fail miserably and this is the path Lightning is going down.
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Redblade, You should ask your Zero dealer if they would consider becoming a Lightning dealer. I have talked with my Zero/Energica dealer and they have no interest in Lightning which is not a good sign at all. There are other dealers out there that sell both Zero and Energica and they should be the first one's Lightning should approach about becoming dealers because it is obvious they know a thing or two about selling electric motorcycles. Just because you can design and produce an awesome electric motorcycle doesn't mean you are going to be successful. Without the right people marketing that awesome electric motorcycle you will fail miserably and this is the path Lightning is going down.
You mean like Mission Motors, Alta, Brammo and Victory, to name some obvious examples? :(
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Redblade, You should ask your Zero dealer if they would consider becoming a Lightning dealer. I have talked with my Zero/Energica dealer and they have no interest in Lightning which is not a good sign at all. There are other dealers out there that sell both Zero and Energica and they should be the first one's Lightning should approach about becoming dealers because it is obvious they know a thing or two about selling electric motorcycles. Just because you can design and produce an awesome electric motorcycle doesn't mean you are going to be successful. Without the right people marketing that awesome electric motorcycle you will fail miserably and this is the path Lightning is going down.
I may just do that, good idea!
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So I found a link to this podcast on the Lightning FB page. Mostly talking about company history and milestones and a little lite on Strike info but at the end of the interview there is some very interesting project developments in charge time. As in 5mins to 75% (in the lab).
So the call to Richard starts at 45:30 to about the 1:12:53 mark. I still wish they would just make a video showing off the bike but maybe they are just teasing what it is until they start shipping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7pJbpEbSdA&feature=youtu.be
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"4. Acknowledgements; ... You understand that we will not hold your Reservation Payment separately or in an escrow or trust fund ..."
Wow, to give $10,000 to a small startup with no escrow... if they fold you lose it.
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"4. Acknowledgements; ... You understand that we will not hold your Reservation Payment separately or in an escrow or trust fund ..."
Wow, to give $10,000 to a small startup with no escrow... if they fold you lose it.
It really speaks to the credibility of folks writing articles that get linked on here. Omitting such stuff, motley fool article probably the most egregious about hype and dubious facts.
So far best I can tell only person taking the leap of faith has a face to face relationship.
fran
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So Mistasam, I saw your SRF review and your comments on the YT video seem to say your still getting the Strike. It's funny all the years people kept saying they wanted a lower seat so they could flat foot. Zero makes one and people say it's too cramped. Your a tall guy so I can see where it would be snug. But the Strike looked small on the one video of a guy riding.
To be clear I love all the posted stats on the carbon Strike but the companies actions are "unusual" to say the least.
If you do get one and take it to NZ I'd say you'll have the only one there so easy to get back if it's stolen.
Quick side note, I saw a rather in depth video on an Esse Esse 9 and she complained that it had such slow AC charging and the DC was pretty useless for her riding. So I guess it's all about the charging infrastructure as to what is best.
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I am still trying to wrap my brain around Lightning's claim that adding 10 kWh of additional batteries to their Standard Strike model to create the Carbon version only adds an additional 30 pounds of weight. I really don't think that making the fairing out of carbon fiber rather than plastic is going to help all that much in the weight difference, especially when you add in the DC fast charging equipment on the Carbon bike. ???
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Anyone that pre ordered the Lightning carbon heard anything yet? Dave told me a week or so ago that if I ordered that day I should be expecting the carbon in August or September.
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I am still trying to wrap my brain around Lightning's claim that adding 10 kWh of additional batteries to their Standard Strike model to create the Carbon version only adds an additional 30 pounds of weight. I really don't think that making the fairing out of carbon fiber rather than plastic is going to help all that much in the weight difference, especially when you add in the DC fast charging equipment on the Carbon bike. ???
I know, and there is so much more "stranger things" with the specs. For $7k more you get a 6.6kw level 2 charger not the standard 3.3. You get DC level 3 charging to fill 100+ miles of range in 20 mins. You get full Ohlins suspension and 120hp not the 90hp for the standard. Oh and twice the battery over the $13k standard bike.
Who would ever buy the standard bike at that level of difference?
The Carbon Strike is by far the greatest deal in the market, nothing else even comes close.
Unless...
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^^ People have speculated on this on several threads in this forum, as well as most other reasonably knowledgeable EV blogs that have any interest in motorcycles (almost none of them, unfortunately).
Noone that I've seen has come up with a reasonable explanation that's charitable to Lightning.
What I find more worrisome is that it's nearly 3 months after the PR that "launched" the bike (after several teasers); there still absolutely nothing on Lightning's site beyond that original PR.
In fact, unless you know that they're intending to launch the Strike and actively look for it there, the clear impression is that they only have the LS-218. There's no product page, let alone detailed specs. The PR hasn't even been updated for initial delivery dates: It still says July, although people have been reporting here and elsewhere they've been told August.
With no reported sightings of multiple prototypes, it's getting difficult to believe they're ready for homologation. It's not a trivial process (https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-engine-certification/certification-electric-motorcycles).
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Just for fun I went to the Energica page and configured an Ego. I gave it the carbon fiber panel option and the Ohilns suspension.
That takes you to about $27k. That is with 3.3kw AC charging (both have DC) and a nominal battery capacity of 11.7kWhs.
Both the Carbon Strike and the Ego claim a 150MPH top speed with the Ego claiming 145hp and the Strike claiming 120hp.
Now Energica is in a very high rent district of Italy and Lightning is coming from China but even with that difference it's hard to explain the price to specs difference.
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I find it really strange that there's nothing on Lightnings website, the only mention at all is the reservation in the shop, which is entirely different than the LS-218 reservation on the main site.
As for the strike itself, if the 20kw bike actually gets you 150 miles on the highway (70mph+) for 20k, it's giving better value than Zero, energica, or Harley for the price.
My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.
But I would never take the plunge until I know they're already viable and I can get the damn thing serviced.
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My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.
But I would never take the plunge until I know they're already viable and I can get the damn thing serviced.
I’m in a similar situation. 38 mile highway commute each way (32 miles mix of city and highway). I’ve been looking at a lot of the EVs over the past couple of years and while the Zeros had the range I wanted, it wasn’t until the SR/F came out that I could get the range, level 2 charger (my job has a crap ton of level 2 chargers), and bike size I would feel comfortable commuting on.
Although the Strike Carbon specs would make it ideal, the fact that I can’t go through a dealer for purchase/support and would have to drop a $10k deposit on the bike sight unseen with no test ride made me feel very uncomfortable.
The “zero†maintenance of the Zero as a daily commuter heavily swung me towards it instead of the Energica despite the lack of a level 3 charger. I get lazier as I get older although no less obsessive over my bikes and even the relatively minor effort of regular chain maintenance is too much (my ICE bike has shaft drive and I have the dealer perform all scheduled services).
Given the larger dealer network and much better factory warranty of the Zero vs Energica (and I’m assuming Lightning since I haven’t seen any warranty info on their site), for me, the Zero SR/F is the only logical choice for an EV bike this year.
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The only complaint that I have about the Energica bikes is that they are just too heavy for my taste and ability to push into and around my garage.
Regarding the Lightning Strike: I figure that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is something to stay away from - especially as an early adopter. ::)
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I find it really strange that there's nothing on Lightnings website, the only mention at all is the reservation in the shop, which is entirely different than the LS-218 reservation on the main site.
As for the strike itself, if the 20kw bike actually gets you 150 miles on the highway (70mph+) for 20k, it's giving better value than Zero, energica, or Harley for the price.
My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.
Not just for you (-:
Lots of ICE bikes don't have 150mi (240km) highway range... My half-faired Bandit 1200S would hit its 5-liter reserve at 180km / 113mi at highway speeds -- I never stretched it beyond 200km for refueling, and I did 10 years of intensive sports-touring on it. It was still a bit annoyingly short on range.
My current Yam Tracer 900 is more like it: It does ~290-300km (a bit under 200mi) at 80-90 mph before the fuel warning blinks on, which is reasonable.
Lots of people would be happy enough with a e-motorcycle you can do 120mi on between 20kW DC quick-charges, which take 35-40min, and AC L2 charging for topping off -- that's finally enough for actual day trips, not just commuting, and would make it relevant for people like me who have no use for an e-motorcycle otherwise.
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The only complaint that I have about the Energica bikes is that they are just too heavy for my taste and ability to push into and around my garage.
Ditto. I consider the max reasonable curb weight of a bike for 1-up sport-touring ~450lbs. I'll stretch it to 480 (what my current bike weighs) since I have to, but 600 is far too heavy, even with reverse gear.
The 20kWh Strike is claimed to be 485lbs / 220kg, with fairing, CCS and 6.6kW L2 charger. We shall see...
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Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.
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Yeah I agree. The Eva is heavy, but really easy to maneuver, and the power helps you forget that weight ;D
I can't speak for Lightning, but their lack of updates is probably because they're hitting production hard at the moment to make that "end of July / early August" deadline. Richard asked me to decide on a paint color when I was there a few weeks ago, so I'm assuming they'll be delivering bikes very soon.
I can't buy one without riding it first, and unfortunately it'll be a few months before I can go back to the shop to test one out (living in New Zealand is such a pain sometimes!) but they have my deposit.
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Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.
Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.
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Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.
Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.
That is true on the pushing. When I first got my Zero I was riding back and forth in my subdivision and I had to see how far it would go before dying and luckily when it did stop, I was about 30 yards from my driveway and I could feel that 400lbs going over the slight hill before I pulled in.
I did see a good video on the best technique for lifting a heavy Harley that's fallen over. A lady got up her 900lb bike so it works and a good thing to know just in case. Women are smart enough to use their legs while men want to just power it up.
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Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.
Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.
That is true on the pushing. When I first got my Zero I was riding back and forth in my subdivision and I had to see how far it would go before dying and luckily when it did stop, I was about 30 yards from my driveway and I could feel that 400lbs going over the slight hill before I pulled in.
I did see a good video on the best technique for lifting a heavy Harley that's fallen over. A lady got up her 900lb bike so it works and a good thing to know just in case. Women are smart enough to use their legs while men want to just power it up.
Yes, I do know about the pickup techniques -- it's still far easier on lighter bikes, esp. if you're not on smooth asphalt and the bike's on rough ground.
We're getting a bit offtopic here, but incidentally, it's the case (or used to be) that to get a riding license in Japan, part of the test is the prospective rider demonstrating s/he can pick up the bike they wanted a license for; I think that's not a bad idea.
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I’m very interested in the ‘Strike’, but would like to see some owner videos/reviews, as well as test-ride it, of course. I haven’t put down a deposit, but might do so soon, just to get in line. If it turns out to be ‘too good to be true’ the deposit is refundable ;-)
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I’m very interested in the ‘Strike’, but would like to see some owner videos/reviews, as well as test-ride it, of course. I haven’t put down a deposit, but might do so soon, just to get in line. If it turns out to be ‘too good to be true’ the deposit is refundable ;-)
It's only as refundable as the financial health and goodwill of the company taking it.
Not casting any aspersions on Lightning in that regard, but they do warn that they don't put those deposits in any kind of escrow fund.
I don't know the law in California or wherever you live, but once they have the money, if they get in any kind of financial jam, without any bad intent, it may very well be that that employees, suppliers, debtors or the state/IRS are in front of you in terms of getting (part of) that money.
It's basically like giving a person a loan without collateral -- how well do you think you know him/her in order to be comfortable doing so?
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+1
That's why the thread is called "leap of faith". They really need to put out more info and unless they are waiting for a certain day for some unknown reason it's one of the worst launch missteps I've seen.
Hatfield talked about this "type" of bike ever since the LS218 really hit the spotlight years ago, and with just a few weeks before he says they will start to deliver bikes we know almost nothing about the "owning" of a Strike.
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Well there is an open house for Lightning per ButchtheBARFdude on the events section.
I didn't know it was for Lightning until I read the post so I thought I'd link it here.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9131.0
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I saw that on BARF, but didn't hear about it in an update from Lightning. It would coincide with the planned delivery of Strike #1, though! So maybe they'll have a few of them there that you could see. If you go, let me know if there's a test bike. I wish I could be there :(
I talked to Jojo yesterday (Richard's wife and COO of the company) and she said they'll be announcing paint choices soon. Sounds like everything is on schedule!
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So a guy over on the Strike thread on advrider.com site checks out Lightning on a site called Glassdoor. Glassdoor is a web site where employees can rate their employee for the benefit of job seekers. There are seven reviews of Lightning, all but one are terrible. The short story is Lightning doesn't seem like a very nice place to work and if you want high quality people you have to pay for them. Here is the link to the full post. https://advrider.com/f/threads/lightning-strike.1362769/page-5 I think this helps explain why Lightning may be having some of the issues it is having.
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So a guy over on the Strike thread on advrider.com site checks out Lightning on a site called Glassdoor. Glassdoor is a web site where employees can rate their employee for the benefit of job seekers. There are seven reviews of Lightning, all but one are terrible. The short story is Lightning doesn't seem like a very nice place to work and if you want high quality people you have to pay for them. Here is the link to the full post. https://advrider.com/f/threads/lightning-strike.1362769/page-5 I think this helps explain why Lightning may be having some of the issues it is having.
To me, those comments on AVrider seem right on. However, what has always been my concern is the advertised price for the various models of the Strike. It just doesn't seem possible that the Strike can be sold with the claimed features, specifications and components as in the original announcement at the prices announced and allow lightning to make a profit and stay in business. (The story of the death of Alta Motors continues to weigh on me.) Either the Strike will have to have a substantially increased MSRP, or the bike will arrive with lower-level components and less performance and range.
If I were pricing the Strike, I would price the low-end model at at least $15K, the mid-range model at $20K and the top of the line version at $30K, based upon the originally advertised features and components. ???
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They're keeping the cost down mostly by manufacturing the main components in China, but also by not having any rider aids. No traction control, no electronic suspension, no ABS (as far as I know).. so it seems to me like a very bare-bones race bike with lights, which sounds amazing ;D The dash is an off the shelf AIM racing dash, which probably also saved them time and money, and they have experience using them on the LS218.
I'm sure if it cost them more money to produce these bikes, they'd ask for more. They totally can, considering the price of a Zero SR. The way I see it, electrics can't stay expensive forever. Even Energica found a way to cut $10k off the price of their bikes without losing money, so Lightning must have as well. We'll have to wait and see, though. Just a few more weeks until the open house!
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On a reply from Lightning to my email inquiry about the Strike, it was stated that the initial production models of the Strike for the US would not have ABS--for a variety of reasons. Lightning does plan to include/introduce ABS and riding aids/modes (that modulate torque) on the next model year of the Strike.
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Yeah, you have to have ABS to sell in Europe, which I'm sure they want to do.
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Yeah, you have to have ABS to sell in Europe, which I'm sure they want to do.
ABS might become a requirement (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ntsb-motorcycle-abs-requirement-nhtsa/) on US bikes sooner rather than later.
I doubt the extra retail cost of adding it on a mass-produced bike is anywhere the $1000 mentioned in the link, after many years that such systems have been available, provided the bike is designed with it in mind in the first place (granted, Lightning might not have enough resources to do this).
In fact, this German study (https://bast.opus.hbz-nrw.de/opus45-bast/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/242/file/F68.pdf) from 2008 (PDF, English language starts on p.4) puts the cost at 120 Euros in 2015 (and less if ABS would become mandatory, as it has in the EU).
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I note that the new step-thru Honda Super Cub has ABS, along with keyless ignition and a rather fancy LCD display. All for under $4K USD.
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They're keeping the cost down mostly by manufacturing the main components in China, but also by not having any rider aids. No traction control, no electronic suspension, no ABS (as far as I know).. so it seems to me like a very bare-bones race bike with lights, which sounds amazing ;D The dash is an off the shelf AIM racing dash, which probably also saved them time and money, and they have experience using them on the LS218.
It still doesn't make sense; looking at the Carbon model, they purport to have a large battery, expensive suspension & brakes, full carbon-fibre fairing, and L1, L2 and L3 chargers, and liquid cooling; all that at a very small weight increase over the midrange model, and on motorcycles, low weight --> expensive.
I doubt that dash is that cheap even if it's off the shelf -- as a racing part, it's not a high-volume item to begin with.
Even Energica found a way to cut $10k off the price of their bikes without losing money, so Lightning must have as well.
Not necessarily. Recall Energica lowered prices by $5K or so when it found it wasn't selling bikes at their planned pricing? I've seen an estimate that they're subsidizing bikes by about that amount each, to gain a toehold in the market which is important in these early days. The claim is they can do so (up to a point) since they have a wealthy corporate parent -- but I don't think Lightning has equivalent pockets.
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wavelet, Energica dropped their prices by 10K and made a lot of options standard. They realized the market for 35K bikes is pretty small. Have never heard the claim about the parent company subsidizing the bikes though. If that were true then the prices would have to go back up at some point and sales will fall. I think they just have much slimmer profit margins than they had before.
When you look at all the questions that are being brought up about the Strike and how this is coming to market and then view the comments on Glassdoor.com it becomes a bit clearer that Lightning has serious issues. If you are trying to screw over your employees all the time it may very well be the case that the Strike has a 150 volt system and isn't going to charge on CCS as they claim. It would be very easy to make a mistake on a spec like this as it goes forward through production and not get caught until it is too late. Sometimes you get what you pay for and that applies to people as well.
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wavelet, Energica dropped their prices by 10K and made a lot of options standard. They realized the market for 35K bikes is pretty small. Have never heard the claim about the parent company subsidizing the bikes though. If that were true then the prices would have to go back up at some point and sales will fall. I think they just have much slimmer profit margins than they had before.
Possible of course, I have no inside info or secret sources :)
It's just that with the very small numbers Energica currently sell, it's not really volume production -- as far as I know, they're essentially handmade. (this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LNssLtqHUo) is their combined HQ / R&D facility / factory / European distribution center / showroom / museum)
Nothing wrong with that while sales numbers are still low, but it's unlikely they can get volume discount on components, and they do use high-end ones,not to mention lots of features being standard (CCS DC etc.)
Without economies of scale on parts & assembly (Northern Italy is pretty expensive labor-wise, and the volumes don't justify automation AFAICS), I doubt they're making profit.
Early growth is also expensive w.r.t. distribution costs -- a dealership needs the same training whether they sell 3-4 bike a year or 40.
As can be seen from their investor presentation (https://www.energicamotor.com/PDF/investors/investor-presentation-marzo-2018.pdf) which includes a timeline, their corporate parent (CRP Group) funded development of an electric racer for several years, and then development of the Ego as a sportbike, before founding Energica as an internal startup.
It would be very easy to make a mistake on a spec like this as it goes forward through production and not get caught until it is too late.
That's something I don't get -- if they have CCS DC charging, someone at Lightning designed it (or specced it for an external partner to design).
That person has to know the basics of the standard, don't they? How could any engineer (whether or not formally trained) capable of designing a high-performance electric drivetrain not take into account the charging requirements?
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The Energica dealer that I regularly visit told me that when the company dropped their prices in the U.S. by about $10K in 2017, they were able to do so by selling "carbon credits" in the California "cap and trade" market. Apparently, there is a lot of money to be made selling pollution credits to big corporations like GM, utility companies, Big Oil, etc. if you know how to play the game.
However, I have also read comments in articles saying that they are also being subsidized by the parent company, probably through technical and buying power assistance.
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The Energica dealer that I regularly visit told me that when the company dropped their prices in the U.S. by about $10K in 2017, they were able to do so by selling "carbon credits" in the California carbon credit market. Apparently, there is a lot of money to be made selling pollution credits to big corporations like GM, utility companies, Big Oil, etc. if you know how to play the game.
However, I have also read comments in articles saying that they are also being subsidized by the parent company, probably through technical and buying power assistance.
Interesting -- I didn't know carbon credit were applied to motorcycles.
An area where Energica's parent, CRP, apparently gave them significant assistance was additive 3D printing.
Anyway, we're getting a bit offtopic here... Looks like we'll have to be patient and wait to see what Lightning actually offers.
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Quote from me:
I know I want to see a video interview/ride of the Strike with an outside reviewer or even an in house mock interview just to get a better picture of what it is and does.
So I think they went with the mock in house interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WFVDwzZ8Bg
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Didn't learn anything new. As long as parts arrive at the factory as scheduled, than deliveries will be on time. I thought on time meant July. Has that changed?
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Didn't learn anything new. As long as parts arrive at the factory as scheduled, than deliveries will be on time. I thought on time meant July. Has that changed?
Completely content free, all vague statements...
Except that he said they're "on track"schedule-wise. Unless they deliver bikes during the next 3 days, that's false as the March PR did said "Strike deliveries will begin in July 2019".
Also, one of two people with deposits on the Strike posted here in the forum that they've been told to expect their bike in Aug./Sept.
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I think the part that concerned me the most was at the end he's talking about other "new" products that will be coming out.
As if the Strike was old hat at this point.
A bike with the specs of the Carbon Strike is the BEST electric motorcycle option by far. The fact that they aren't shouting that fact from the roof tops gives me pause. It makes people question that "fact".
I really hoped they would put on a good show at the open house and show the bikes in action, even if it was a closed area short ride like the Tesla Roadster II put on.
Wavelet I think the post was "if" he had put money down on one at that time he he was told he could get it by Aug/Sept. Which a few months delay isn't the end of the world. I want to see the thing do what they say it can do, which isn't too much to ask.
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I think the part that concerned me the most was at the end he's talking about other "new" products that will be coming out.
As if the Strike was old hat at this point.
A bike with the specs of the Carbon Strike is the BEST electric motorcycle option by far. The fact that they aren't shouting that fact from the roof tops gives me pause. It makes people question that "fact".
I really hoped they would put on a good show at the open house and show the bikes in action, even if it was a closed area short ride like the Tesla Roadster II put on.
Wavelet I think the post was "if" he had put money down on one at that time he he was told he could get it by Aug/Sept. Which a few months delay isn't the end of the world. I want to see the thing do what they say it can do, which isn't too much to ask.
You're right -- I was confusing two posts; I meant this (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8885.msg78205#msg78205) one, which says August, and of course, a few months delay is to be expected from a startup.
Like you, it's concerning that they're not publishing full specs about the Strike, or showing it actually being ridden, or trying to talk it up everywhere; they're also talking about the LS-218 as if it were a real product, although I've yet to see proof that they've ever sold more than one, in 2014.
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If you look at Lightning's web site they are making no effort at all to sell the Strike. There are no specs, no photos, only a link to reserve one. The Strike Carbon Edition reservation link says it is comes with every available option yet they don't tell you what options those are. You have to wonder how it was determined that these were the best moves.
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If you look at Lightning's web site they are making no effort at all to sell the Strike. There are no specs, no photos, only a link to reserve one. The Strike Carbon Edition reservation link says it is comes with every available option yet they don't tell you what options those are. You have to wonder how it was determined that these were the best moves.
Perhaps their history selling the LS-218 is where they got their marketing plan for the Strike. ::)
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If you look at Lightning's web site they are making no effort at all to sell the Strike. There are no specs, no photos, ...
If you look in the "Blog" section there is an old post with the Strike specs.
No, the numbers still don't make sense.
Did anyone here go to the Open House. I can't find a single post here or other social media that mentions being there or how it went.
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Did anyone here go to the Open House. I can't find a single post here or other social media that mentions being there or how it went.
https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535321&page=4
From what I can tell they had 3 Strikes behind a chained off area. No touching, and you weren't supposed to photograph them either. The blue and yellow one look mostly finished, but the white one is full of raw milled parts. They were never turned on or demonstrated as functioning to the public in any way. The highlights of the day included riding electric bicycles in some sort of slow race with a $50 prize for first, and a taco truck. Richard gave a presentation that revealed no new information.
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Did anyone here go to the Open House. I can't find a single post here or other social media that mentions being there or how it went.
https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535321&page=4
From what I can tell they had 3 Strikes behind a chained off area. No touching, and you weren't supposed to photograph them either. The blue and yellow one look mostly finished, but the white one is full of raw milled parts. They were never turned on or demonstrated as functioning to the public in any way. The highlights of the day included riding electric bicycles in some sort of slow race with a $50 prize for first, and a taco truck. Richard gave a presentation that revealed no new information.
Thanks for the link. That was interesting.
At least it looks like 3 units of the LS-218 actually exist, as well as at least 3 units (prototypes?) of the Strike, but like you say, not even showing them ridden is odd.
The choice of venue for a presentation -- a local club meet, I understand -- is even odder; why spend time on bringing the bikes, preparing & giving a presentation over publishing info on the website or a static (no riding) press event?
I actually thought the concept bikes, that is 2-hub-motors, and in-swing-arm motor, were interesting as well, even if they're not doing any more work on them.
It at least shows they've been doing something the past 5 years.
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With sales apparently averaging one or two LS-218 models each year it is a mystery to me what keeps Lightning afloat. ???
Could it be hot air? ::)
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The most disheartening thing was the photos of those Chinese red hubmotor bikes. Similar bikes all over Alibaba for sub-$2000. Not a good sign.
I have worked with Chinese manufacturers. It is possible to get quality components from them. it requires careful vetting and hands-on supervision of each component supplier along with ongoing thorough inspection of parts. An unauthorized "substitution" of an identical looking but defective part once cost me the equivalent of a lovely Italian sports car in warranty repairs. In the field that $10 bad part ruined a $300 part and cost me up to $1000 in labor for each bad part I built into a machine that shipped.
Who will cover warranty for Lightning? Who is supervising assembly in China?
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Bill's momma didn't raise no dummies
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Well the web site is updated. The Strike gets first tab and gets a spec section back.
Some of the numbers are a little different with the range number seeming a bit low for a 20kWh battery.
But here it is.
https://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike-carbon-edition-specifications/
And they are different numbers than what is on the "About Strike" section. Sigh.
https://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike/
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Well the web site is updated. The Strike gets first tab and gets a spec section back.
Some of the numbers are a little different with the range number seeming a bit low for a 20kWh battery.
But here it is.
https://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike-carbon-edition-specifications/
And they are different numbers than what is on the "About Strike" section. Sigh.
https://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike/
Hmmm... Let's see what changed since the March PR:
-- Curb weight: Is now lower (485lbs to 455lbs / 220kg to 207kg ) -- and incidentally, someone there doesn't even know how to round non-integer numbers. 455lbs is 207kg, not 206kg.
-- Motor (called "engine", which isn't bad English): Explicitly 300V, which makes CCS possible, and liquid-cooled as is the inverter (probably they mean "controller" by this as well)
Power: same (120BHP).
Torque: Much higher (250Nm vs. 180nm) -- this should mean it's a different motor than the other variants.
-- Battery: Explicitly liquid-cooled, which is good if true (and hard to credit given the low weight).
Same capacity.
-- Charging (presumably using CCS): "recharging from 0" (to what??) 40min, so quite unclear. No actual peak rate given; used to be "35min to add 100mi" (without giving SoC start/end states)
-- Wheel/tire sizes & types finally given (and rear is an eyebrow-raising 200/50ZR17 ). Claim Pirelli Supercorsas, which would be decent.
-- Ditto decent Brembo brakes.
Range: "Up to 120 miles at road-legal speeds " . Which means what? 25mph is also road-legal. Even if they mean highway speeds, AFAIK limits vary quite widely in the US, from 50 to 80mph.
If this is all they could be bothered to do when finally fixing their site after 6 months, not impressed -- and no data about the other variants.
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455 pounds is really impressive for a 20 kWh battery if it's true. Still no mention of delivery date.
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Hmmm... Let's see what changed since the March PR:
-- Curb weight: Is now lower (485lbs to 455lbs / 220kg to 207kg ) -- and incidentally, someone there doesn't even know how to round non-integer numbers. 455lbs is 207kg, not 206kg.
455 lbs == 206.38kg which should be properly rounded to 206. I'm not sure where you get your 207 number from...?
Or... Did you approximate to 2.2lbs/kg? It's actually 2.2046(...) which means it rounds down further than using 2.2 would suggest.
-- Battery: Explicitly liquid-cooled, which is good if true (and hard to credit given the low weight).
Where did you see it labeled as liquid cooled? I see the motor, inverter, and controller listed as liquid-cooled, but no mention of the batteries other than "Integrated thermal management system" which could be ? ? ? a heatsink ? ? ?
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Hmmm... Let's see what changed since the March PR:
-- Curb weight: Is now lower (485lbs to 455lbs / 220kg to 207kg ) -- and incidentally, someone there doesn't even know how to round non-integer numbers. 455lbs is 207kg, not 206kg.
455 lbs == 206.38kg which should be properly rounded to 206. I'm not sure where you get your 207 number from...?
Or... Did you approximate to 2.2lbs/kg? It's actually 2.2046(...) which means it rounds down further than using 2.2 would suggest.
Thanks! :-[ Yes, my bad -- I used a quick conversion shortcut on my phone which turns out to use the 2.2 approximation. That'll teach me to be pedantic where it doesn't matter...
-- Battery: Explicitly liquid-cooled, which is good if true (and hard to credit given the low weight).
Where did you see it labeled as liquid cooled? I see the motor, inverter, and controller listed as liquid-cooled, but no mention of the batteries other than "Integrated thermal management system" which could be ? ? ? a heatsink ? ? ?
Hmm... The previous specs in the March PR didn't say anything about a battery TMS at all.
I took the "integrated TMS" here to mean an active system (otherwise, it's not really management), which would rule out a heatsink (or just fins).
I further extrapolated that
(1) unlike some BEV cars, they can't use a needed-anyway-for-cabin-cooling airconditioning system to cool the battery;
and
(2) they wouldn't have two separate different active systems on the bike: not enough room, and certainly not enough weight margin given the low curb weight.
However, given the odd phrasing of some of the other items, and the contradictions in the March PR, it's probably not a good idea to extrapolate anything.
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Richard Hatfield has announced first Strike delivery.
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Well the website changed again.
The LS 218 is back at the first tab and the "about" section is gone from the Strike. The "about" section showed the unlikely spec number differences that didn't make any sense.
Like the 10kWh Strike weighing 455 and the 20kWh Carbon Strike only weighing 30 pounds more (485). That was with a bigger 120hp motor (90 hp for the 10kWh) and 6kw charger and the CCS setup.
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It's really too bad that Hatfield doesn't see the need to post the specs for the basic Strike. That is what has the potential to sell well based on the initial specs. But it doesn't seem that Lightning is going to have bikes in stock that you can walk in and buy. You have to order them. I think Lightning will remain a small boutique builder of bikes and will never become a main stream electric motorcycle maker like Zero or Energica.
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There is just no way even just the 10kWh worth of battery only weighs 30 pounds. When you include the other components it's very unrealistic.
As always the question of why can't they get the right numbers comes up.
It's like they gave a China factory target specs and now they are waiting for them to deliver on that goal.
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There is just no way even just the 10kWh worth of battery only weighs 30 pounds. When you include the other components it's very unrealistic.
As always the question of why can't they get the right numbers comes up.
It's like they gave a China factory target specs and now they are waiting for them to deliver on that goal.
And of course, China is famous for meeting manufacturing goals, specifications and requirements. ::)
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There is just no way even just the 10kWh worth of battery only weighs 30 pounds. When you include the other components it's very unrealistic.
As always the question of why can't they get the right numbers comes up.
It's like they gave a China factory target specs and now they are waiting for them to deliver on that goal.
And of course, China is famous for meeting manufacturing goals, specifications and requirements. ::)
Actually, that's also been bothering me for a while.
Lightning's bikes are high-end electric sportbikes. The global market for those per year is currently probably ~1-2K/year (*).
The internal market in China for them is zero (there are a virtually no >300cc motorcycles in China at all, and almost all of them are police or government-use bikes).
Many of the Lightning components (suspension, brakes, tires) are high-end low-volume items, made in developed countries.
Given the initial market is North America only, and then Europe, It makes no sense for the main assembly plant to be in China; bikes need to undergo QA close to the assembly line and close to the R&D team, so any issues are easy to fix.
A Chinese final-assembly plant (as opposed to Chinese components) would make sense only for very high-volume products, like electric scooters/mopeds, which Lightning's products aren't. There's a reason why every other series e-motorcycle maker has their plant in the home country, near the R&D people, even if a lot of the components are Chinese.
(*)Zero sells a few thousands bikes/year, but the majority are naked commuters or dirtbikes, and many are low range.
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Well really this isn't much at all but they made a video of it on the road so here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_Nm4MCHcA
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Oh. They now have a blue one. I wonder if that is the same bike that was featured in their video shortly after the Strike was announced earlier this year?
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Of course. They had a blue, white, and yellow one. The white one is gone now. The blue one is the only one that's ever been shown actually in motion.
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In the video, they show it rolling up to a stop sign and that was it. That bike in the beginning could have been any bike. What a waste of a video.
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So this is an older video that I don't remember seeing so I'll post it here for those interested. It's from the open house they had back in the summer.
So from HadesOmega Moto here ya go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZplgwRJOo