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Tech => Tech Help => Topic started by: Crissa on October 21, 2019, 03:34:10 AM

Title: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 21, 2019, 03:34:10 AM
So yesterday I was coming home and the fog formed up hard at skyline which left me riding in the wet for the first time.

By the time I got home, my indicators had malfunctioned.  Not sure when it happened, but they're straight dead.  There's no ticking, no blinking, no dash indicator either direction.

I'm new to bikes, but not repairs or electronics.  Since everything is dead, I'd think I should look at the power supply or indicator switch.  But I don't know where to look for those things on my bike at all!

Has anyone done this repair before?  Can I get a walk-through anywhere?

Thanks.
-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Richard230 on October 21, 2019, 04:56:00 AM
When I bought my first 2012 Zero, the turn indicators didn't work at all, even before I left the showroom.  The dealer then removed the turn indicator flasher device from a 2011 Zero and installed that on my 2012> That solved the problem.  That solid-state switch was located under the "tank" behind the headlight, as I recall. However, I am not sure where it is located on the later bikes.  But it should be easy to find by tracing the wires from one of the flasher assembles or the turn signal switch.  You might have to replace the flasher component if that is the problem. But first try spraying WD40, or something similar, into your bar-mounted switch.

If you do need a new flasher box, I believe that just about any one will work from a Japanese motorcycle, purchased from a local shop, or you can source one from Zero, which might take a while to arrive. I am pretty sure they don't cost much.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 21, 2019, 05:45:44 AM
The unofficial manual says it's 'in front of the plastics area, under the wishbone' which I've been trying to find for like an hour.  https://zeromanual.com/wiki/File:Tank-relay-connectors.jpg

I can't find the flasher controller in the parts list at all, either.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Doug S on October 21, 2019, 08:14:14 PM
Turn signals are pretty simple. If you've got headlights and the dashboard is powered up, it's not the DC-DC converter...you must have good power. Measure for 13.3VDC just in case.

Since it sounds like it's affecting all turn signals, it couldn't be a single bulb or housing. It must be something they all have in common.

So you're on a good track with the flasher, all the turn signals share that. Also check for a blown fuse (probably the most likely thing), and maybe the switch. But that's really about all that the turn signals all share in common.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 22, 2019, 02:37:23 AM
Spouse suggested wiring harness, too.  So I'm about to dig into it and see.

I'm guessing that the harness and flasher relay is under the tank in the front, so I'm following the unofficial manual's teardown for seat, then tank, then going to poke at it with a multimeter.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: ESokoloff on October 22, 2019, 09:39:20 AM
Yes the tank has to come off (2016 DSR).
I can't remember exactly where it is but (think I) recall it being between the wishbone & tank bag zipped tied to the frame. 
The flasher is not solid state & if you replace it as I recall two of the terminals are swapped in relation to the most common  relays. 
I changed mine to solid state to avoid led issues & I ended up swapping these two wires in the relay socket to achieve compatibility.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 22, 2019, 12:36:54 PM
Wishbone is the part where the frame comes up to the steering column?

I wasn't able to take it apart today because I seem to have misplaced my toolkit when preparing for entertaining friends this last weekend x-x  I looked everywhere and wasted the whole day.  At least lots of other tools got put away...

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: ESokoloff on October 22, 2019, 07:19:26 PM
Wishbone is the part where the frame comes up to the steering column?


-Crissa

Yes.   

After removing the tank it will be reveal it’s self.
In the image you posted, it’s ziptied to a clip that’s attached to the bottom of the wishbone.   
It’s plugged into a 3 wire socket.   
You won’t miss it but remember that the flasher terminal arrangement is not the norm (if you end up replacing it but swapping the two correct wires at the socket is a work around). 
Per my Notes: 3-24-18 Installed Electronic Signal Flasher (had to swap +- on plug)
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 23, 2019, 11:44:17 AM
I removed the tank and was unable to find the box in the photo.  There were some smaller boxes, and an SAE clip.  There were two smaller junction boxes with way more zip ties and in a way, not enough zip ties.

Thanks Eric, that was the one I thought it was.  But if I wriggled the wire they'd work for a second.  So I'm taking it to the dealership in the morning.  No signals are annoying, but I don't have to ride the freeway (in fact prefer not to; Hwy 17 is way above my skill level) so I can hand-signal my way there.

Sounds like they'll take responsibility for it being suddenly loose (They did replace the MBB and have it in the shop for two weeks).

It was still fun learning how to take the tank off.  The machine screws holding the front together were a serious pain!  I ended up use a 1" bit on my right-angle quick-release driver.  Put that on the variable-speed household driver and that worked like a charm, but gosh it made me want the pop-clips from the skirt of my car!

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Doug S on October 23, 2019, 06:34:07 PM
The machine screws holding the front together were a serious pain!

Amen, sister! Many of us have been dealing with that nonsense for years now. When I got my Chapman tool kit, it has sideways-drive screwdriver bits, and those work well, too.

At least you narrowed the problem down for the dealer. And it doesn't sound like anything too serious, just a bad connection.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 23, 2019, 09:24:02 PM
...And I realized I forgot to plug it in last night in my haste to get to the movies and to bed.  Augh.  I could've sworn I put it to bed with 95% not 35% but ohwell.

So I guess I get a nap in before taking it to drop it off.

I ordered the Chapman kit, too!  It looked nice and compact.  Also, my car kit doesn't have any extenders (there's nothing I've found to need them on it) and it's always nice to have the tools with the job.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: ESokoloff on October 24, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
...And I realized I forgot to plug it in last night .........

-Crissa

I’ve NEVER done this (at least not this week) ;D
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 25, 2019, 02:52:32 AM
Well, I went and they think it's the relay but observed the same wriggly-wire problem.  So apparently I owe them for the relay if that fixes it but if it doesn't, they'll cover all this?  Whatever.

Apparently they won't have a spare part until Friday.  So I rode the hour back home!

At least I'm getting lots of riding in.  This is my first motorcycle, and I need practice.  Driving over the hill is definitely practice!  Most riders on Hwy 9 do it for 'fun'. ^-^  This was the first time I hit 70Wh/m from my trip average.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Shadow on October 28, 2019, 03:51:16 PM
...I ordered the Chapman kit, too!  It looked nice and compact....
Earlier review of the Chapman stuff:
Gear Review: Chapman Manufacturing Co. Model #1916 (https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6346)

The star bit for brake pads is also handy to have, as are the gunsmithing flathead bits for adjusting the shocks. I think the seat bolts need just a little more torque than the chapman ratchet can take repeatedly. Still would leave room for a small socket wrench to handle the 5mm and 6mm hex bits and seat bolt T45s. I used the bit extender with the 3mm to get at the deeply recessed fasteners either side of the DC-DC doghouse when removing tank plastics. There are some small fasteners on the brake lever microswitch, I think I kept a 5mm and 6mm allen key bundled with my go kit.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on October 29, 2019, 09:09:12 AM
The Chapman kit was lovely!  It was much more compact than I anticipated.  I'm totally going to lose it, but until then, I really like it.  I'm glad it was recommended in the unofficial manual.

Most of my work will be at the house, so I'll probably just use my power driver that I can set to super-low toque.  It made quick work once I knew where all the screws were.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 15, 2019, 08:12:34 AM
...And finally the relay has arrived at the dealer.  Zero says they don't understand why it took their third-party warehouse so long to ship the part.

Maybe I'll have signals tomorrow.  Or maybe I'll wait for it to stop misting in the mountains here.  I don't exactly have rain-gear.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crilly on November 15, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
Good luck.  I live in Wisconsin. Always have heated gear and rain gear.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 15, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
I live in California.  We literally don't get rain for six months of the year.  Of course, the other half it's a rain forest, so...

The redwoods just love this mist.  It took all day before it started dripping off them they were drinking so much of it up.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on November 16, 2019, 12:40:35 AM
It's worth pointing out that for 2018+ models, the flasher can be replaced by generic ones you can buy at an auto parts store. For previous years, you have to swap some leads in the connector to use a generic unit.

This is all described at:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Turn_Signal_Flasher
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 16, 2019, 06:08:59 AM
Thanks, Brian!  I couldn't find that when I was searching before.

It finally got repairs today, and I took the day to learn the curves of Bear Creek.  Those corners are really different than up and down 9; much tighter and the pavement is washboard so you kinda have to do those tight ADV-style balance upwards while pushing the bike down into the turn thing.  That was kinda cool!

Always something to learn ^-^

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on November 16, 2019, 08:48:34 AM
The manual is big enough now that it's better to use browser search or the wiki search (which I test regularly) to find things. I'm working on addressing that.

Ride safe. I know those roads, and look forward to riding on them again once my body is fully repaired.
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 16, 2019, 12:41:18 PM
Yeah, I think I learned enough to tackle the last couple turns on 9 that I hated.  Like that dozer-tread-damaged hard 70° right turn northbound up by Waterman Gap.

All the hard turns seem to be northbound on 9.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Demoni on November 20, 2019, 01:47:25 PM

It finally got repairs today

Glad you got it fixed! Just saw this thread but as you mentioned Skyline I take it you live in the Bay. I'm down in Pacifica and alway happy to lend a hand problem solving or wrenching.


much tighter and the pavement is washboard so you kinda have to do those tight ADV-style balance upwards while pushing the bike down into the turn thing.  That was kinda cool!

Goat trails are a ton of fun with the right bike. They teach lots of new riding skills too!
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 20, 2019, 02:44:16 PM
Yes, I'm outside Santa Cruz, ten miles up 9.  SLV represent ^-^

Goat trails are a ton of fun with the right bike. They teach lots of new riding skills too!
I bet!  And with a Zero I wouldn't feel like I was trampling nature so much.  But my S isn't meant for those.  But I have taken it around the block to feel a little gravel (our road devolves in its upper half) and maybe I should try it somewhere that's not a mountain first ^-^

But there's alot of tricks I need to learn first!

While I was at BMW I picked up some rain gear so I'm weather ready for this rain.  Hope it reaches North Bay and they don't have fire weather, either. ^-^

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Richard230 on November 20, 2019, 09:07:49 PM
Yes, I'm outside Santa Cruz, ten miles up 9.  SLV represent ^-^

Goat trails are a ton of fun with the right bike. They teach lots of new riding skills too!
I bet!  And with a Zero I wouldn't feel like I was trampling nature so much.  But my S isn't meant for those.  But I have taken it around the block to feel a little gravel (our road devolves in its upper half) and maybe I should try it somewhere that's not a mountain first ^-^

But there's alot of tricks I need to learn first!

While I was at BMW I picked up some rain gear so I'm weather ready for this rain.  Hope it reaches North Bay and they don't have fire weather, either. ^-^

-Crissa

I heard today that a portion of the Santa Cruz Mountains picked up 1/10 of an inch of rain and one lightning strike last night.  Not much elsewhere until you go as far south as Monterey, where it rained 1/2 inch.  At least the PSPS were called off by PG&E for the central and southern areas of the Greater SF Bay Area.  So we can recharge today.   ;)
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 21, 2019, 03:31:05 AM
Yeah!  We got hit by wet in several waves, starting late afternoon.  Around midnight, enough to be called actual rain and not just a sprinkle.  And yes, I saw the flash!  Sure, it was up at skyline, but it lit up SLV.

I had to fight off raiding raccoons who were all 'It's raining!  Let us in!' and I was like, 'No!  You keep making a mess!  You are banned from my house!  Go live in your tree!'  Very unhappy raccoons.  I still haven't figured out how they got into the attic last week.  I don't even know how to get into the attic.  It has very tiny vents and no hatches.  Maybe from the crawlspace behind the furnace venting?  I crawled back there and couldn't figure it out.

Adventures in living in the woods ^-^

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Richard230 on November 21, 2019, 05:12:29 AM
Yeah!  We got hit by wet in several waves, starting late afternoon.  Around midnight, enough to be called actual rain and not just a sprinkle.  And yes, I saw the flash!  Sure, it was up at skyline, but it lit up SLV.

I had to fight off raiding raccoons who were all 'It's raining!  Let us in!' and I was like, 'No!  You keep making a mess!  You are banned from my house!  Go live in your tree!'  Very unhappy raccoons.  I still haven't figured out how they got into the attic last week.  I don't even know how to get into the attic.  It has very tiny vents and no hatches.  Maybe from the crawlspace behind the furnace venting?  I crawled back there and couldn't figure it out.

Adventures in living in the woods ^-^

-Crissa

In other news, better get your riding in this weekend. It looks like rain will finally be returning to the Bay Area during Thanksgiving week, starting Tuesday. Let the crashes and spin-outs commence.   ::)
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Crissa on November 21, 2019, 07:28:43 AM
Alas, most of my time is going to be digging drainage ditches in our hillside.  Also needs to be done before the rains.

-Crissa
Title: Re: How to diagnose a problem in the turn indicators?
Post by: Richard230 on November 21, 2019, 08:40:30 PM
Getting back to the original thread topic about turn indicator problems, maybe they need their blinking fluid replaced?   ;D