ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: DonTom on March 13, 2020, 09:11:17 AM
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I mentioned my DS battery a couple of times here before, how it's range is about half. Well, I checked on it today and they told me they completed my bike the same minute I walked in the door (other than the test ride). They said I could have it then, as I could do the test ride. But I will pick it up in the morning (when I can get a ride there).
I was told that their testing showed my battery was down to exactly 50% of capacity. Kinda what I expected, as it even charges to 100% twice as fast as before.
The new battery Zero sent them has NO labels on it of any type. So they have no idea if it is another 6.5 KWH battery or a 7.2KWH, but I expect it's another 6.5 (I was hoping they would run out 6.5KHW batteries and give me a 7.4).
Anyway, all under warranty at no cost to me.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Just ask zero if the order has been delivered and they will usually tell you the part number. I asked and that’s when they told me I got upgraded.
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It is always good news that Zero looks after their customers :)
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Just ask zero if the order has been delivered and they will usually tell you the part number. I asked and that’s when they told me I got upgraded.
My receipt says "46-0824-- 1.00-- Assembly Battery Long Cell-- Warranty".
I think "long cell" means I did receive the 7.2 KWH battery.
Anyway, riding it home, going by the SOC, it now has about three times the range as when I brought it to them as well as better range than it ever had since new.
Almost a full mile per 1 SOC on the ride home. I think the city range would now be close to 100 miles, from what I have seen so far.
I am very happy with what appears to be my new range. And it didn't cost me a penny. And I am very happy with the service from Zero and Reno EuroCycles.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hi, Don, and everyone. Do you know what the actual battery warranty is? I know it's 5 years/100k miles for my 2014 S, but what is the degradation, 20%? I think that means if the capacity drops to below 80%, they will replace the battery? Is there a way to check that other than at the dealer?
Thanks,
BC
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You can check the battery capacity for yourself using something like this https://shop.ecmcables.com/tuning-cables/Zero-Cables to connect to the OBD port on your bike. My '16 DS 13.0 battery was replaced earlier this year. After 3.5 years and 66k miles it was showing ~82% capacity, and Zero agreed to replace it under warranty.
Hi, Don, and everyone. Do you know what the actual battery warranty is? I know it's 5 years/100k miles for my 2014 S, but what is the degradation, 20%? I think that means if the capacity drops to below 80%, they will replace the battery? Is there a way to check that other than at the dealer?
Thanks,
BC
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It's ~20%, but there isn't a great way for you to check it. Zero support has a procedure they have you do and then they analyze the logs and make a determination. I'd call or email them about it
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What software do you use with that OBDLink cable?
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Not sure about that specific cable, but any serial terminal should work. I use teraterm
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Hi, Don, and everyone. Do you know what the actual battery warranty is? I know it's 5 years/100k miles for my 2014 S, but what is the degradation, 20%? I think that means if the capacity drops to below 80%, they will replace the battery? Is there a way to check that other than at the dealer?
Thanks,BC
It's 80%, five years and I think it's now unlimited mileage on my 2017 Zeros.
80% is a very good battery warranty. But I think my DS ZF 6.5 went down to around 50% or a bit less.
Tesla uses 70%, 120,000 miles M3, LR models, but OTOH, it's 8 years for their battery warranty.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Is there a way to check that other than at the dealer?
That could be difficult, as we can never be sure the conditions are exactly the same for two different days of the same distance.
But perhaps, at least in some cases, charge times will show the problem.
My charge time was way too fast. The bad battery would charge a bit more than twice as fast as before, just as if my battery was less than half the KWH capacity, which it really was.
The shop said all they had to do to verify that I had a bad battery was to send in my log data to Zero. Perhaps you can do the same, if you expect a battery problem.
-Don- Reno, NV
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This is one of the things that worry me the most - having a battery become bad after the warranty. I wonder if this is common among EV's, or if this is rare. I should start a poll.
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This is one of the things that worry me the most - having a battery become bad after the warranty. I wonder if this is common among EV's, or if this is rare. I should start a poll.
It will be more likely to happen with a smaller battery such as my 6.5 KWH DS. It will be a lot less likely to happen with my 16.3 KWH SR.
The reason is the battery load ratio. A larger capacity battery should last a lot longer when the loads are near the same on each.
My SR has the same range as it was when new. It has more than twice the battery of my DS. Both are 2017 models.
It would make sense, IMO, if Zero varied the warranty on the size of battery, giving a longer warranty to the larger battery packs. But I am not going to complain about that as we know they would shorten the smaller battery warranty.
Perhaps I shouldn't be giving them any such ideas here. . .
-Don- Reno, NV
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I've actually seen it written that the 14.4 has double the amount of miles on the warranty (or had, if it is indeed now unlimited). However it was still only for 5 years so I guess they expected people with double the capacity to ride twice as far.
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I've actually seen it written that the 14.4 has double the amount of miles on the warranty (or had, if it is indeed now unlimited). However it was still only for 5 years so I guess they expected people with double the capacity to ride twice as far.
What year was that?
I didn't notice any mileage from the Zero battery warranty mentioned here. (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/)
"The duration of this Limited Warranty for the Power Packs (not including the Power Pack’s outer case) is:
"Five (5) years from the “in-service date” for the Z-Force® ZF14.4 Power Packs on the 2020 Zero SR/F Motorcycle.
Five (5) years from the “in-service date” of the host 2020 Zero SR/F Motorcycle for the Z-Force® Power Tank accessory. If purchased after the host Power Pack warranty has expired, the Power Tank will receive the standard parts warranty of one (1) year from date of purchase.
The Power Pack’s outer case is not covered under the Power Pack Limited Warranty duration terms above. Instead, the Power Pack’s outer case is covered for a period of two (2) years from its “in-service date.”
-Don- Reno, NV
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That doesn't seem to have a mileage limit, Don.
-Crissa
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I don't think it was on the Zero site but rather a dealer's site, who I assume got the info from Zero. Looking at English Electric's site they say the battery warranty is 5 years and unlimited miles, but the battery is rated to reach 250,000 miles before it gets to 80% capacity. Presumably (assuming those numbers are from Zero) if you managed to exceed 250,000 miles within 5 years, however feasible that is, and the battery dropped below 80% capacity it wouldn't be replaced as it's technically performing within spec (although it wouldn't surprise me if Zero replaced it anyway or at least offered a discount). However if you exceeded 250,000 miles but the battery failed in another way it would be replaced.
I think it was English Electric that gave different numbers depending on the capacity in the past, so while they would both have an unlimited mile warranty the 7.2 would reach 80% after at least 125,000 miles where as it would take the 14.4 the 250,000 miles.
Bottom of the page: http://www.englishelectricmotorco.com/ds-dsr-14-4-7-2-11kw-zero-motorcycles-electric/
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I think it was English Electric that gave different numbers depending on the capacity in the past, so while they would both have an unlimited mile warranty the 7.2 would reach 80% after at least 125,000 miles where as it would take the 14.4 the 250,000 miles.
Bottom of the page: http://www.englishelectricmotorco.com/ds-dsr-14-4-7-2-11kw-zero-motorcycles-electric/
The bottom of the page says:
WARRANTY:
2 year whole motorcycle
5 year battery/unlimited Mileage
What they say about the "BATTERY LIFE":
"250,000 miles to 80% of original capacity"
Should not have anything to do with the warranty. So if you put on a million miles in 4.9 years, you're covered under warranty when you only have 79% of your range (or KWHs) left.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It would depend on whether the reduction in capacity is considered grounds for replacement under warranty, which if it's within spec it may not be. Would need to check the T+Cs to be sure.
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It would depend on whether the reduction in capacity is considered grounds for replacement under warranty, which if it's within spec it may not be. Would need to check the T+Cs to be sure.
AFAIK, the only way you can screw up the battery warranty is if you let the battery sit fully discharged for more than 24 hours. They have that in writing in the owner's manual. Everything else, AFAIK, such as the charge to 60% and not full are only recommendations or specs that will NOT void the warranty even if you leave it charged to 100% all year or ride a million miles per year.
So, AFAIK, the only way the warranty is void at 79% of capacity at room temp is if you leave it discharged for more than 24 hours.
-Don- Reno, NV
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There are many more ways you could void the battery warranty.
Install Diginows and attempt to charge at more than 1C. Or charge at a higher current than allowed based on temperature.
Let the battery drain below recoverable voltage by storing it without checking on it.
Mess with the wiring inside or on the battery in a deleterious way.
Store it outside in temperatures exceeding it's safety limits(which is very very cold or hot)
Storing and/or leaving the Power Pack at a state of charge below 30% for more than 30 days.
Using the vehicle for commercial or business applications
Using the bike despite obvious warnings and error messages
Not performing recommended maintenance
See warranty:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/
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There are many more ways you could void the battery warranty.
Install Diginows and attempt to charge at more than 1C. Or charge at a higher current than allowed based on temperature.
Let the battery drain below recoverable voltage by storing it without checking on it.
Mess with the wiring inside or on the battery in a deleterious way.
Store it outside in temperatures exceeding it's safety limits(which is very very cold or hot)
Storing and/or leaving the Power Pack at a state of charge below 30% for more than 30 days.
Using the vehicle for commercial or business applications
Using the bike despite obvious warnings and error messages
Not performing recommended maintenance
See warranty:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/
See this page:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/
I wasn't stating the obvious. I would not expect to be able to saw the battery in half and get a warranty replacement! I was talking about a stock bike under the normal and somewhat reasonable conditions.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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There are many more ways you could void the battery warranty.
Install Diginows and attempt to charge at more than 1C. Or charge at a higher current than allowed based on temperature.
Let the battery drain below recoverable voltage by storing it without checking on it.
Mess with the wiring inside or on the battery in a deleterious way.
Store it outside in temperatures exceeding it's safety limits(which is very very cold or hot)
Storing and/or leaving the Power Pack at a state of charge below 30% for more than 30 days.
Using the vehicle for commercial or business applications
Using the bike despite obvious warnings and error messages
Not performing recommended maintenance
See warranty:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/
See this page:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/
I wasn't stating the obvious. I would not expect to be able to saw the battery in half and get a warranty replacement! I was talking about a stock bike under the normal and somewhat reasonable conditions.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
No you're absolutely right. Under normal conditions its 5 years. No conditions. I was a little surprised at some of the exceptions they've carved out. I bet there's a story behind some of those.
Wasn't trying to imply you meant otherwise DonTom :)
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It's dubious that their commercial-use exclusion would be legal, though. But most of the others are reasonable. I wonder if they have a different warrantee for commercial customers?
-Crissa
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I would not expect to be able to saw the battery in half and get a warranty replacement!
Dang! So much for that idea.
I talked to Zero today (very nice CSR) and will take it in to my dealer. In service date was 10/15 so it is still under warranty.
BC