ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Jan Wespelaar on March 15, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
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I have bought 2 months ago a FXS to ease the travel to work as I am living in Brussel, Europe. As in a lot of city's there is some evolution to create vast aera's with a general speed limitation of 30kph (=20mph). As the bike rides that very nice (=fast), respecting this limitations is a very stressing buss. I am wondering if some one knows a way to lower the "max speed" in the costum setting of bike to speeds of 20mph, in stead of the present 60mph?
This would make driving in these city more relaxing and avoid unwanted speed penalities.
I guess this kind of general very low speed limitation is something maybe typical of Europe making it less needed in the states but it could be a great thing as it provides a kind of a speed limiter for free.
Does someone has knows a hack to lower this value in the app?
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Hello Jan, Hans, also from Belgium here 8)
The SRF has that option in the custom mode where you can configure both power, torque and top speed. I haven't seen that option in the previous app though. What you could try is to limit power in that mode since that is what gets you to that top speed. But not sure if that is anything close that what would make it usable.
(https://i.ibb.co/X3t2Kv7/6-D0-EC68-A-72-C0-43-CC-9-E45-F95-C8-C76559-B.png) (https://ibb.co/rcH7z1x)
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Hello Hans,
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately reducing power and torque aren't sufficient, they reduce the acceleration and speed of reaction but this is by far insufficient to limit speeds that low as required, 20mph. Even with everything tuned down to 1% it takes only 20m to excess legal speed limits, whats somewhat toxic ;D but costly :-X
Best regards, keep warm with the current mini-lockdown in Belgium.
Jan
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This would be a nice feature to add to the older bikes' software, if possible.
It's very easy to get up above the speed-limit with a Zero ^-^
-Crissa
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Hello Crissa,
Indeed it would be a nice feature to be available.
And I personally would expect this isn't that complex as the possibility is already available in the form of the "max speed" parameter in the app, the only thing needed would be the selection of al lower max speed value as low as 10 or 20mph. If lowering this limits would result in hysterish effects on the engine driver maybe these lower max speeds values will require that the user selects at the same time low power and torque values.
The beauty of all of this is that this combination could be done on the Mobile App level without any modification in the bike itself and by this way available for even some older models as long as they can use the app's of the present bikes (S-SR-D-DR-FX-FXS-.....)
Cross fingers that this feature could be picked up by the Zero Motorcycles developers.
Jan
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My 2017 dsr is the same.
That's a great idea though and I would make the suggestion to Zero. They've been very good at answering my emails and phone call. Perhaps it's something they can add to a future firmware update or an app update.
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You can DEFINITELY set a top speed in the custom settings for the older bikes. Make sure you have the latest app installed, but I have it set on my 2018 S.
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You can DEFINITELY set a top speed in the custom settings for the older bikes. Make sure you have the latest app installed, but I have it set on my 2018 S.
You can set it on the SR/F as well. I have my custom mode set to 95 MPH...
Steve
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I've asked for a lower top speed before and was told that regulatory requirements prevent them from lowering the top speed below 60mph. So I don't think you'll get that :)
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> You can DEFINITELY set a top speed in the custom settings for the older bikes. Make sure you have the latest app installed, but I have it set on my 2018 S.
Yes, but it's not low enough.
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My app doesn't select speeds below 60mph, though.
Doesn't the SR/F also have cruise control, for another layer of limit control?
-Crissa
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Dear Auriga,
When have they respond to you with this explication of regulatory reason for not lowering the top speed below 60mph? Law do change in time ;).
Furthermore for all of us continental Europe drivers, this rule doesn't exist in our place which could maybe give Zero freedom to lower these values for "metric" value users (which are the continental Europeans). The existants of both measuring system could for once be an advantage :o
I will try to give them a phone call today and keep you informed of the feedback, fingers crossed because it would a nice feature as respecting a speed limit of 30kph is a hell of a job with a Zero, your in excess even before having crossed the square at the traffic lights.
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I will try to give them a phone call today and keep you informed of the feedback, fingers crossed because it would a nice feature as respecting a speed limit of 30kph is a hell of a job with a Zero, your in excess even before having crossed the square at the traffic lights.
Your periodic reminder that there is an infinite number of settings between "throttle fully closed" and "throttle fully open." There is no need to whack the throttle wide open leaving a stop... This also applies to owners of older models without traction control.
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It has to be possible because the 2019 Zero tour "Discover the Ride" featured Zero motorcycles with limited top speed allowing non-licensed riders a safe experience.
https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/zero-motorcycles-discover-the-ride-no-motorcycle-license-required/ (https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/zero-motorcycles-discover-the-ride-no-motorcycle-license-required/)
New Rider Course – Ride Zero motorcycles that are governed to safe speeds on a controlled, indoor course and in an educational atmosphere.
https://motorcycleshows.com/content/discover-ride (https://motorcycleshows.com/content/discover-ride)
New Rider Course in partnership with Zero Motorcycles
The New Rider Course gives non-licensed attendees the opportunity to ride a motorcycle for the first time and learn riding basics from expert instructors. The indoor demo course will host a fleet of speed-limited electric Zero Motorcycles to give participants the experience of riding a motorcycle in a safe and controlled environment. Zero Motorcycles have no transmission, feature ABS as standard equipment, and its zero emissions make an indoor experience on one of the most advanced motorcycles in the world a possibility. Instructors from Total Control Training will be on hand at each show to give instruction and guidance and gear will be provided by Cycle Gear, Shark Helmets, HJC and Shoei.
I really want to limit the top speed, to even below moped limits for novice riders to start learning.
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Dear Auriga,
When have they respond to you with this explication of regulatory reason for not lowering the top speed below 60mph? Law do change in time ;).
Furthermore for all of us continental Europe drivers, this rule doesn't exist in our place which could maybe give Zero freedom to lower these values for "metric" value users (which are the continental Europeans). The existants of both measuring system could for once be an advantage :o
I will try to give them a phone call today and keep you informed of the feedback, fingers crossed because it would a nice feature as respecting a speed limit of 30kph is a hell of a job with a Zero, your in excess even before having crossed the square at the traffic lights.
It was vague, but something about being classed as a scooter v a motorcycle and being allowed on highways
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I don't know of any regulation which stops people from limiting their own vehicles. Which is what doing it in the software would be.
-Crissa
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Now that I've thought more about it, limiting speed that low could be a safety risk especially if you're not able to speed out of the way of a bad situation. Such as being hit from behind.
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I do understand the thought about not being able to speed out of the way but this is in fact a non-issue on the regulation site as most cruise controls on cars have a speed limitation function. On my Merc, this limitation start with low speeds of 20mph (whats becoming the limit in most European cities). If you set this limit on the car there is no way to exces other than canceling the cruis control function which means that I am not able to speed out of the way, and my Merc is to big to just jump between to parked cars ;).
As this speed limitation in my car is starting from 20mph (=30kph), I would be surprised if it wouldn't be allowed on bikes.
As for the practical side of the availability of this low speed limit setup, don't forget, 20mph is very slow. Even by freewheeling downstairs on a hill road you excess this limit. Which could, by the magic ;) of the electric bike, be solved on a software way as there is already the incorporated engine brake which already function I do think as there is no way to excess the in the app applied top speed.
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With cruise control, if you activate the accelerator, you generally will exceed the set limit as it only prevents the car from slowing down.
-Crissa
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Dear crissa,
Not my cruise control on my mercedes e220, not on my presedent mercedes. It will block whatever you try to exceed and even with my present on brakes if needed.
All of which i’m sure their is not legal problem, at laest not in europe (in have no info on the states but maybe their is someone on the forum with a mercedes in the states how can verify this)
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Dear Jan, I did say 'generally'.
That would be a very new feature relating to accident avoidance. (And not one that I think is particularly good - we shouldn't encourage drivers to be unsafe with their inputs on the fly. What if cruise control gets disengaged and someone is used to cruise control limiting their accidental inputs?)
My mom's last two cars had radar-based cruise control, and would cut your accelerator input (and raise an alarm) if you tried to accelerate into a hazard it had detected. But the normal course is that it would allow you to raise your speed, for instance to catch up or surpass another vehicle before returning to cruise without further inputs.
-Crissa
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Anybody is welcome to post a reference to the actual regulation on limiting the maximum speeds through custom settings.
(Many trucks have top speed regulators, one carrier I drove for limited to 57 mph. )
Back to the thread. I still want to set the MAX speed in custom settings to limit the top speed to any value.
I cannot find any regulation informing any limit. (If could set custom mode to "0" I'd take it as a theft deterrent (not prevention, just "deterrent")).
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Sometimes things are liability instead of written law, tho, like most of the reason for the minimum cruise control speed of 20.
-Crissa
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My experience with cruise control in the states has been that any pressing on the brakes and any significant pressing on the accelerator automatically cancels cruise control. I can't say that I have experience specifically with Mercedes. I would say that I agree with you that a lower allowable max speed setting would be desirable if rolling on the throttle would allow you to exceed the set speed limit in the case of an emergency.
Dear crissa,
Not my cruise control on my mercedes e220, not on my presedent mercedes. It will block whatever you try to exceed and even with my present on brakes if needed.
All of which i’m sure their is not legal problem, at laest not in europe (in have no info on the states but maybe their is someone on the forum with a mercedes in the states how can verify this)
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As pointed out by others, the top speed and lower speed can be set with custom.
The lower speed as mentioned is generally set to around 60 mph ( 100 km ).
If your local shop is passionate about the Zero, then they can probably reprogram
the computer for you. Hollywood Electrics here in the U.S. does mine.
regen is set to stop at around 12 to 15 mph. I have mine set to go all the way
to a stop. Since they can do this, I would imagine that they SHOULD be able to
set your maximum speed lower as well. On MY bikes, this is done in the SPORT
mode with Eco and Custom being normal
Hope this helps
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So it probably is not a law....
https://electrek.co/2020/03/20/cleveland-cyclewerks-us-built-65-mph-falcon-electric-motorcycle-unveiled/
The Falcon 01 can be restricted to “E-bike mode” with limits of 20 mph (32 km/h) top speed and 750W (1hp), or to “E-moped mode” with a top speed of 27 mph (43 km/h). It also features an unrestricted mode that takes full advantage of its 6kW motor with a 65 mph (105 km/h) top speed.
The Falcon BLK also sports the same restricted modes, but offers up to 12kW (16 hp) in unrestricted mode and a top speed of 85+ mph (137+ km/h).
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So it probably is not a law....
https://electrek.co/2020/03/20/cleveland-cyclewerks-us-built-65-mph-falcon-electric-motorcycle-unveiled/
The Falcon 01 can be restricted to “E-bike mode” with limits of 20 mph (32 km/h) top speed and 750W (1hp), or to “E-moped mode” with a top speed of 27 mph (43 km/h). It also features an unrestricted mode that takes full advantage of its 6kW motor with a 65 mph (105 km/h) top speed.
The Falcon BLK also sports the same restricted modes, but offers up to 12kW (16 hp) in unrestricted mode and a top speed of 85+ mph (137+ km/h).
I'd imagine that bike can't be derestricted by the user, especially not on the fly, because there's no way it would then comply with the regulations. It's going to be sort of similar to Zero's "11kW" models, except actually power limited.
It wouldn't surprise me if a bike has to be able to achieve a certain speed to be classed as a motorbike (of course varying based on what country it's in) and perhaps being able to easily circumvent that doesn't comply with regulations. That said the 60mph limit does seem too high, there are certainly bikes here in the UK that can't go over 60 but are still classified as motorcycles (both gas and electric) and they are probably available in America too.
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In the US, a street vehicle has to be able to go over 30mph while mopeds are limited to it. Which is only a few miles an hour more than class-3 bicycles at limited to.
Kinda makes the whole scale of things kinda pointless, if you ask me.
-Crissa
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Back to the thread, my goal was to use the switchable custom setting as a speed limiter for driving more relaxed without need to permanently verify my speed in towns where general speed limitations of 20mhp is installed on complete area's of 10miles around. I don't know if this policy has already entered the States but in Europe, it has become the more and more generally spread as it politically supported as a way to ban cars out of the cities and improve air quality.
Or Zero bikes are already free of air pollution, so no problem. Only driving 20mph, its a hell of a job. So lowering the top speed value would be very much help, and it can be disabled with the mode switch, it is without block the bikes capability of driving more than 30mph. In plus I find the idee of ctrlburn to use it as a anti theft deterrent very inventive, if a some really wants to steal a bike he will succeed but maybe the bike doesn't move, he would take the next bike aside as he can escape directly by using the bike.
As the servicing centers here in Belgium aren't that easy to reach by phone or email or shop, it there someone out there in the forum how is living near Zero headquarters for asking them directly if it would be possible or if there are special reasons why the present minimum value is 60mhp, because we all want off course to keep or bike reliably running.
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As a workaround (if unable to limit speed), perhaps you could use Waze (or other) app on your smart phone to alert you when your going too fast (presuming it will function acceptably for this purpose).
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Its 7 months since the last exchange on this topic, and I'm in the meantime about 600€ speeding penalties for excessing 30km/u further :o, making may question painly relevant.
That's than also the reason why I reactive this question, "is there someone how has found away to lower the maximum speed setup in the costum setting below 60mph (97km/u)" and if possible as low as 20mph (30km/u).
There are thousand of better ways to spend money that to pay speed penalties. And sorry but controlling that low speeds manually is near to impossible, or dangerous because you would need to concentrate more to your speed measuring than to the traffic around you, but this hasn't worked as excuse to the police officers :-X
Best regards, Jan
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Hi Jan,
As previously mentioned, Zero has said they are unable to limit speed to a value below 60mph due to some regulation in general use bikes.
I don't know which though.
I know they did a demo event where they brought bikes limited much lower than that, so I know it's technically possible.
But it seems unlikely you'll get what you want without some hackers and/or a dealer willing to go experiment in the guts of the MBB.
You could always get an SR/F or SR/S with cruise control, I think that works down to about 20mph. ;)