ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Hans2183 on December 28, 2020, 09:51:21 PM
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I'm not sure about the US market but for EU models we have the SR-platform models with either :
Phase 1 with 3kW charger on standard model
Phase 1 and 2 each 3kW for a total of 6kW on premium models
Phase 1 3kW and phase 2 6kW for a total of 9kW
Phase 1 & 2 each 3kW and phase 3 6kW for a total of 12kW
In theory, what prevents anyone from installing another 3kW on phase 1 and 2 for a total of 18kW? Other than the hefty price tag of 1.700 for a 3kW charger and maybe lack of space on the bike?
Would such an upgrade require software changes also?
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In theory, what prevents anyone from installing another 3kW on phase 1 and 2 for a total of 18kW? Other than the hefty price tag of 1.700 for a 3kW charger and maybe lack of space on the bike?
The BMS will prevent you from doing that because Zero will not warranty any charges that are greater than 1C. If you have the Rapid Charge module you are at maximum charge rate of 114 Amps for the 14.4 battery pack.
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The BMS will prevent you from doing that because Zero will not warranty any charges that are greater than 1C. If you have the Rapid Charge module you are at maximum charge rate of 114 Amps for the 14.4 battery pack.
I think he could have been asking if one also has the power tank installed.
Will the BMS let you charge to 1C (above 114 amps) with the power tank installed? BTW, does the power tank have its own separate BMS?
-Don- Yuma, AZ
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Yes each battery has its own BMS. The previous gen Zero would allow the MBB to recognize 2 BMS, hence the Monolith and the Power Tank, or an FX with the 2 modular batteries. Or, if you're a maniac like Brandon, strapping a second monolith on top of the tank area sideways and having a nifty 26kWh system until CHP pulls you over for going very, very fast.
If the user has the Power Tank on the current gen system, each one of those bricks is 28.5Ah, so you could add another 28.5 Amps in for a total of 142.5 which would be around 14.5kW.
I don't know what the new platform requires in terms of communication, though. You might have to go in through the CAN lines or, if you're very resourceful, tap into the leads on the new SMC controller.
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Nice idea but I don't think it will work without some design changes to the bike charging system.
There is added weight, added cost, and added complexity. Reduced battery life :o, reduced performance due to the extra weight. Voided warranty?
If we assume it's possible, there is also the diminishing return on investment. Adding 6kw to 3kw is 200% increase in charge speed. Adding 6kw to 12kw is 50% increase, theoretically at the same cost as the 200% increase.
Also note that (depending on charge current) the last 10-40% of battery charging is at reduced current to prevent the cells from heating up (becoming thermally unstable (catch fire)). Any extra charge capacity will be unusable at that point.
Maybe better solution would be to get the bike with the smallest charger. Then get some clever person to engineer an 18kw charger into the same space? Depending on Zero's original design it could be simple, or devilishly complicated.
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Or, if you're a maniac like Brandon, strapping a second monolith on top of the tank area sideways and having a nifty 26kWh system until CHP pulls you over for going very, very fast.
Please tell me there is video, or at least pictures, of this 26kwh monstrosity.
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Yeah, I second caza's curiosity.
-Crissa
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Of course.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/1618805471521988
and if no facebook
(https://i.imgur.com/kHQvTCi.jpg)
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I had some similar thoughts than Hans. If I look at the BMS data, I think the max current is not constant and can be more than 114A:
- target_charge_voltage 112.8 V
- pack_soc_pct 87
- max_charge_current 128
- pack_voltage_mv 112086
This is just one data point at SOC 87%. In this case we can charge max 128A with 112V (current pack_voltage) = 14.33 KW. I am guessing this is close to the overall maximum. If you increase SOC you will have higher pack_voltage, but max_charge_current will throttle down. With lower SOC you will see lower pack_voltage, but as far as I have seen you will get the same max_current of 128A.
That means: The 12KW charger is already close to the maximum you can get, but I think without modifying the BMS you can get a little more - specifically since you need to take charger losses into account (I am guessing 10%).
For us in Germany it would be perfect, if Zero would support 3.6KW for the internal chargers and 7.2KW for the charge tank. This would give full 11KW on a 16A 3-phase charger (instead of currently 9.6KW) and 14KW on a 32A 3-phase charger (22KW charger). If we take losses into calculation I would make bets, that the BMS would allow full speed between ~30-90 SOC.
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Well you'll find out real quick if the bike disengages over 114 Amps.
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Thanks for the pic Mvetter, that's both just as monstrous and amazing as I imagined.
Is the bike still set up like this? Would love to see a video of the setup and more info on it.
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Thanks for the pic Mvetter, that's both just as monstrous and amazing as I imagined.
Is the bike still set up like this? Would love to see a video of the setup and more info on it.
God no. After being ticketed by CHP the dual monolith setup was disassembled. The SR had its power tank restored and 13.2kWh of chargers attached in a clean fashion. Then the bike was sold to a buyer in Texas where it presumably resides today.
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After being ticketed by CHP the dual monolith setup was disassembled.
Was that ticket related to the bike modifications or safety, or was it for speedcrime?
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The latter.