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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on July 13, 2013, 01:09:04 PM
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Today i traded my 2011DS for a S2012 ZF9.
I jumped on that deal and prefered to wait for the 2013 until price come down.
I'm just back from a ride with various test and i really like the linear powerband and handling !
it's a big difference compare to the suspension of a DS !
I was a bid less impressed bu the take off acceleration that i found quicker on the 2011... but it might be something the MBB performances setting. My guesss is that at low speed the current is limited..
Doc
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Congrats Doc!
Trikester
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Sweet ;D
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I was a bid less impressed bu the take off acceleration that i found quicker on the 2011... but it might be something the MBB performances setting. My guesss is that at low speed the current is limited..
Doc
The initial kick off the line is the worst part of the PMAC Zero's. I think its not just a current limit but also a characteristic of the brushless motors. Do you have a shunt big enough to measure the battery current whilst pulling away? This would be the easiest way to find out unless Aaron or Harlan can fill us in.
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I was a bid less impressed bu the take off acceleration that i found quicker on the 2011... but it might be something the MBB performances setting. My guesss is that at low speed the current is limited..
Doc
The initial kick off the line is the worst part of the PMAC Zero's. I think its not just a current limit but also a characteristic of the brushless motors. Do you have a shunt big enough to measure the battery current whilst pulling away? This would be the easiest way to find out unless Aaron or Harlan can fill us in.
Yes i have many shunt from 250A to 600A in my lab. I will reinstall the cycnel Analyst on my 2012, just like i had on my ds 2011.
it can give me alot of parameters and also can datalog these:
Wh/km
actual volt
actual amp
actual power
min volt
max amp
Ah consumed
Wh consumed
battery % left
speed
max steep etc
the fusw in the 2012 are 300A rated while they are 420A on the 2011. That's curious
it's like the 2012 have pretty the same power but are driving more volt instead of amp...
max power are:
2011 58V x 420A =24.3kW
2012 75V x 300A =22.5kW
My guess is that the sevcon size 4 are programmed with lower phase current at low speed, than once sped reach about 70kmh, max power is acheived...
apparently the 2012 can take the sevcon size 6 and i wonder if there is some mod to do on the battery to cary that current ?.. update contactor? update battery fuse?
Also the MBB is filtering the throttle signal on the 2011 but on the 2012 the throttle signal goes directly to the sevcon... but the sevcon have the Can bus data connected to the MBB... so the Can Bus might affect the performances setting too..
I now that there is the Uart on the OBDII connector so i'll try communicating with the MBB if i have time and will see of the performance smod can also be acheived on the 2012...
Doc
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Doc you can try your best I don't believe you will have success tuning the Sevcon.
I have done a lot of tests. You can monitor the data over the CAN-Bus and you will see the current is 420A from the beginning.
Keep in mind you have a PMAC motor you can think of it as a dynamo it will start with 0V and raise the voltage ~linear to the rotation. Therefore the power at low speed is low even if you feed 420A because voltage is low. If you try to tweak the system and put more voltage the motor tries to pull more current => over-current protection will shut off.
I found a lot of setting for the Sevcon that could reduce current at low speed (eq. used for a gearbox system...) but I believe Zero didn't limit the 2012. This is for sure the reason Harlan goes for a Sevcon 6 and not selling a SW-Mod for the Size 4.
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Ok i see..
but that 300A battery fuse is really strange i think.. 300A and 75V is not very high max power.... the 2012 is rated 29hp on the dyno but i wonder how many hp is really the 2012 with the sevcon size 6...
420 vs 660A = 57% more power.
so taking account to the voltage drop of the battery this coul dbe like 50% higher power to the motor.. let say 45hp?.. motor rating is 40hp at his max voltage so 45hp for lower voltage like the 2012 battery woudl make it heat alot..
is there any review on the power, and hor hp, torque and battery react on teh 2012 with the size 6?
Doc
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Harlan put both a Size 4 and a Size 6 2012 bike on a dyno.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2521.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2521.0)