ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on July 14, 2013, 11:19:33 AM
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I had a chance to take a look to the sevcon motor controller on both 2012 and 2013 Zero S and they are the same !
That mean in theory the 2012 controller can go to a voltage up to 116V ;D
The 2012 battery is made with 18s bank and the 2013 is made with 28s bank so there is 10s of cells bank difference wich is 37V nominal and 42v max.
This is confirming teh great possibility to increase performances not just by a size 6 but also by increasing voltage =))
Doc
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Hi Doc
I was wondering how high before there is a safety concern about electricution? I know 120 AC volt will kill you but 48 volt DC wont, what is the point when the voltage carry enough current to kill you.
Thanks Jerry
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I have many electric bike that i built that work from 72V to 126Vdc and never had any problem of electrocution ;)
usually they recommand to not have touch any voltage higher than 42Vdc but 100Vdc dont really snap... well my hand usually are dry so no problem with that ;)
DOc
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As little as 50V can push the few milliamps through needed to cause cardiac fibrillation, depending on various factors that affect the impedance of your body tissue. So we're already in the danger zone :). It may be less likely with DC at that level, though.
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I would not play with 3 DC digits. Your guys know what happens when you get hooked in a relatively High-voltage DC line...in my case (I have got sweaty hands)is not something to play with... ???
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i'm not an electrocution expert, but i would not wish to expose myself to even 5V at 1amp. it's current, applied in the right place at the right time, that matters, not voltage per se.
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Its a how long is a piece of string question. If you have particularly sweaty hands and you have a grounded object in one hand and 30VDC in the other it could go across your chest and cause problems. A higher voltage is more likely to cause muscle contraction where you would be unable to let go.
All things considered, you are still much more likely to be seriously injured walking down the stairs or fuelling your ICE bike than you are to be electrocuted by your Zero.
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guys let's start another topic fo relectrocution risk please :D
let's go back to the original subject:
the fuse in the 2012 are 300A rated while they are 420A on the 2011. That's curious ???
it's like the 2012 have pretty the same power but are driving more volt instead of amp...
Absolute max battery power are:
2011 58V x 420A =24.3kW
2012 75V x 300A =22.5kW
My guess is that the sevcon size 4 are programmed with lower phase current at low speed, than once sped reach about 70kmh, max power is acheived...
apparently the 2012 can take the sevcon size 6 and i wonder if there is some mod to do on the battery to cary that current ?.. update contactor? update battery fuse?
Also the MBB is filtering the throttle signal on the 2011 but on the 2012 the throttle signal goes directly to the sevcon... but the sevcon have the Can bus data connected to the MBB... so the Can Bus might affect the performances setting too..
I now that there is the Uart on the OBDII connector so i'll try communicating with the MBB if i have time and will see of the performance smod can also be acheived on the 2012...
Doc
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the fuse in the 2012 are 300A rated while they are 420A on the 2011. That's curious ???
If you have a look to the datasheet it will tell you that you can use much more current for 1 sec 1min ... so it will be ok your sevon will not deliver 420A longer as the fuse can hold this current.
http://www.siba-fuses.us/upload/documents/catalogues/V_Section_Forklift.pdf (http://www.siba-fuses.us/upload/documents/catalogues/V_Section_Forklift.pdf) "Page 7"
The MBB is able to reprogram the Sevcon on the fly but it is only used when you switch from ECO to Sport vs I have explain it here
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913)
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hmm..
so the 2012 is probably the year that the zero ar ethe less reprogrammable or tweakable.... :-\.. the only good tweak is the size 6....
About the eco and sport mode i am able to stwich on the fly between eco to sport if i need to have better regen braking. when i'm in sport mode i can switch to eco when i need to have better regen braking and it work.. so i might also connect a relay on the high beam switch that will now be usedto switch eco momentanously.
Doc
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You are a handy man, why not using a step-less regen brake with a clutch lever.
I guess you can build the mechanic or use this " http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3027.msg14912#msg14912) "
I let you know how I have done the Mod, if you need support.
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I have a 2012 XU, is the regeneration only with throttle fully closed, or, is there partial at trailing throttle?
On my Volt, if I am slowing down, or, on a slight down grade, the regeneration starts as soon as I lift enough
to cease forward propulsion.
Also, with all these owners switching to the Size 6 controller, would I be able to put a Size 4 from an S or
DS on my XU?
Thanks
Edward J. Malkiewicz
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Regeneration starts with throttle FULLY closed or when you tip your brakes ( if the brake light went on it starts the regen algorithm, I can only tell how it is at a 2012 S/DS but I think the XU work similar)
A size 2 use some pins different I think if someone like to install a size 4 it is possible but maybe it take some extra work. I have no idea how the space/mounting situation is. I would ask Harlan, maybe he has done it or has a set for you.
You also need the correct programming/setup for your motor + some tuned parameter (I guess ;))
If you need Sevcon data there is a manual http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/Manuals/Gen4_Product_Manual_V3.0.pdf (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/Manuals/Gen4_Product_Manual_V3.0.pdf)
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KrazyEd....my dealer told me it was possible to put the bigger controller in the xu...but at a huge loss of range
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KrazyEd....my dealer told me it was possible to put the bigger controller in the xu...but at a huge loss of range
Actually fitting a larger controller would marginally increase your range as they are more efficient at lower power. If you used exactly the same acceleration etc. you would go further but of course most people will be using full throttle all the time so you will drain the battery much faster.
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I posted this on my e-trike thread but those who aren't interested in that subject will have missed it. I had Harlan re-program my 2013 SPORT mode system to 0% regen with no brake light and 15% with light. Then I iPod programmed the ECO for 0% with no light and 25% with light. This gives me coasting almost as good as a bicycle and then two levels of regen when I put on the brake light (but not the brake itself unless extra stopping force is needed).
The question I had to answer by trying was: When the SPORT regen is set to 0% does the ECO regen drop to that same level when it is programmed for 0%. The answer: Yes.
As I have stated before: When slowing is not needed, the most efficient way to go down a slope is free coasting with no regen. When slowing is needed then use regen for that.
Now the bad news: The 2012 systems cannot be set to 0% regen because by default it goes back to the factory 7% the next time the key is turned on. If the Doc, or someone else, can figure out how to defeat that setting then 2012 riders could benefit from this ability to get good coasting also. It is very nice to roll down a gentle slope without using any throttle.
I'll copy this reply to 2013 also under "regen settings".
Trikester
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It is possible but not so easy.
I have once explained how the 2012 handles the ECO and SPORT procedure.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913)
If someone really like to do let me know. But you need to reprogram the Sevcon and install an additional wire to the Sevcon.
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NOTE: Biff has told me that the firmware upgrades to the 2012's MBB and Sevcon removes the auto reset to the SPORT default regen and also removes the limitation on how many times you can switch to ECO and back to SPORT. That is definitely an upgrade worth getting. The 2012's then become like the 2013's in that regard.
Trikester
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Thanks Trikester,
I need to speak with my dealer for an MBB update.
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Thanks Trikester,
I need to speak with my dealer for an MBB update.
Be sure they do the Sevcon update also.
Trikester