ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on July 29, 2013, 09:34:09 AM
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Yes.. Doc got the power! ;)
I received the 3 meanwell 2500W power supply today. these are rated 2000W but the have their constant current at 125% so it'S 2500W continuous
-Total weight: 12 pounds
-Work on 100 to 240Vac
-3 of these( 7500W) have less volume than a single 1000W deltaQ !!
I also have installed a Anderson connector on the Sevcon controller to charge at high current (100A DC)
and bought some 250V 50A LEVITON AC socket and plug and a 40A double pole breaker to add to my garage subpannel
Guys this is really incredible how compact and powerfull this charger will be !!
These meanwell power supply will draw a total of 36.5A MAX at 240V according to their rating so all the LEVEL II J1772 charging station should take that easy with a 40A EVSE.
Here is how i will connect them.
2 of the RSP-2000-48 (42A) connected in parallel to get 48V 84A (105A max)
in serie with 1 RSP-2000-24 (80A or 100A max)
To get 75V at 100A ( the rsp-2000-24) will be adjusted to 27V ( 48 + 27 = 75V)
Today i did 105km with my ZF9 on a road with some beautifull mountain landscape and i measured 6400Wh used (89Ah) and (the ZF9 have 7900Wh energy rating) and the last 2 bar was flashing on the gauge.
This mean that if i charge at 7500W of power to fill the 6400Wh used it shoud take about 6400/7500= 52 minutes !
I will also use the charge enable signal connection that the quick charge plug have and will connect it to a relay that will activate or desactivate the power on the power supply to stop the charging current when the battery is full and to protect it against cell bank overcahrge.
The 3 power supply cost 1300$ shipped wich is 300$ cheaper than the PFC 5000W Elcon charger without shipping !... and... 2500W more powerfull !
Also what is great is that these can also be connected all in serie and adjusted to get he 116V for the 2013 Zero;)
here is some porn pics for you guys: ( SOON... my slow samsung smartphone need to upload pics ::))
Doc
Here is the video ( sorry in French)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAh5pDG_wU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAh5pDG_wU)
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Hi Doc,
Are the power supplies configured to finish the charge with constant voltage? Or do you constant current charge up to some voltage (say 4.1 volts per cell * 18 = 73.8V) with the power supplies, then use the stock onboard charger to finish the job?
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Hi Protomech
That's an Excellent Question
Yes these power supply are constant current and constant voltage. each of the RSP serie can be adjusted from 40 to 115% of their rated voltage with a pot so yes they are constant VOLTAGE and as for the constant current, it's the overload protection set to 125% of the rated current that is active and make the constant current.
These are also constant power so if the voltage is set to 115% then the max current drop a bit.
btw from my experience the Zero EIG cells are set by the BMS to 4.15V CV, just like the Emoli of the 2011 and previous battery.
My zero is showing 75.0V exactly when full ( Fluke calibrated Cycle analyst ;) ) wich correspond to 4.166 V per cell
I have two choice for finishing the charge: using the Onboard 1kW deltaQ that already finetine the balance function with the bms thru the white signal wire or to continu using meanwell and using the signal wire to the output enable input of the meanwell to control the output rate tand keep the cells protected at end of cahrge with the HVC
Doc
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some more pics 8)
As you can see the 3 meanwell are smaller volume than the deltaQ!!
You can also see the various AC current daw by one of the two 48V meanwell and related output current too.
finally a view of the cycle analyst i installed on my Zero with the nearly 90Ah used out of the 120 Ah rated ( note that the two remaining bar was flashing since about 5km)
I measured about 10km per bar average (also saw 9.5km per bar at 90km/h)
Doc
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This looks very nice ;)
Get an air conditioning system in your lab, The heat dissipation is going to be interesting ;D
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I'm wondering about the cooling of those supplies. I know that switching regulators are highly efficient (having been my business) but those look too good to be true. Do they each have a built in fan? Even then it looks to be marginal.
Doc, have you used them at full rated power and measured temperatures?
Trikester
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Doc, have you used them at full rated power and measured temperatures?
Trikester
Yes i have used them but it is the RSP-1000 version not the 2000.
Yes they have dual high speed fan that modulate with the power demand. i just not shown these in the pictures.
Here is a 1U x 3 unit module where you can see the high flow fan:
(http://www.meanwell-power.com/mwpics/RCP-1000.jpg)
The RSP-1000 metal case was about 40 celsius average on the surface at about 1250W max continuous output. I used a IR thermometer and a black tape on the surface ( metalic surface reflect IR so the black tape is a great " black body" surface to point the IR thermometer on.
Doc
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Hi Doc,
Can't wait to see how it works, Funny yesterday I was thinking about the SNT RSP-750-48 / 24 MeanWell, because I had to order other stuff and saw this one at the disti. But the 24V type are not available at the moment. They have Voltage and Current adjustable what I liked because you can reduce Grid Load if necessary!
Why did you use 48V + 24V and not 3 * 24V (and maybe a 4th when using for the 2013)?
When you go to the Battery / Sevcon connection is the main relay on while loading, or do you switch it separately? I hear always a relay clicking but I thought it is the Delta-Q.
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In line -in a way- with Trikester...I would definitely monitor the temp, if at any moment one of the fans fails you have got a problem...I'm also familiar with switching technology but the output power is pretty high anyway. For a few bucks, you can get a temp display...just in case.
This business reminds me (not saying this is the case) when Intel launched the 60 MHz (yes, MHz, not GHz) Pentium Processors, and had huge thermal problems and function failures.
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Hi Doc,
Can't wait to see how it works, Funny yesterday I was thinking about the SNT RSP-750-48 / 24 MeanWell, because I had to order other stuff and saw this one at the disti. But the 24V type are not available at the moment. They have Voltage and Current adjustable what I liked because you can reduce Grid Load if necessary!
Why did you use 48V + 24V and not 3 * 24V (and maybe a 4th when using for the 2013)?
When you go to the Battery / Sevcon connection is the main relay on while loading, or do you switch it separately? I hear always a relay clicking but I thought it is the Delta-Q.
That's interesting to see Meanwell also make some current adjustable model, thanks.
what i like with the RSP-2000 si how compact they are! 21.7W per cu inch!!
I choosed to get two 48V model and one 24V because i can also use it for my ebikes and just bring one of these. otherwise for 48V i would have needed to bring 2 of them with me ;)
For the motorcycle in both case i can only have 3 to get 7500W. and for the 2013 i could use all them in serie to get max 141V at 50A ( 56+56+29V) wich is excellent too i think
Doc
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In line -in a way- with Trikester...I would definitely monitor the temp, if at any moment one of the fans fails you have got a problem...I'm also familiar with switching technology but the output power is pretty high anyway. For a few bucks, you can get a temp display...just in case.
This business reminds me (not saying this is the case) when Intel launched the 60 MHz (yes, MHz, not GHz) Pentium Processors, and had huge thermal problems and function failures.
Yes that's a great care to have and i'll probably do but i had great succes with the RSP-1000. Their fan blow alot of air! I will also install a hig amp shottky diode in paralle with each meanwell in serie to protect them in case the power on delay is not all the same on the 3 power supply. this will protect against reeverse voltage.
Doc
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Good work, Nice project very useful for these larger KW bikes
;D
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UPDATE: 4 august 2013
Charger fully assembled and 100% working !!
It is exactly like i predicted and draw 30A max so it is compativle with the J1772 30A Level II standard (I also have my J1772 Adapter and pilot signal circuit board are in the mail)
The charger is limiting the current to 90A DC wich is perfect and is giving 6.1kW when battery is fully discharged and raise to 6.6kW when battery is full, but i stop before to not overcahrge. i prefer charging to 95% during long ride and sometime, at home to let the last 5% for finetuning the cell balance last stage done with the stock deltaQ at lower current occasionally.
From now i have to leave teh bike ON for charging because i need the internal contactor to be ON, but once i have time i will remove the battery and relocate the connections directly BEFORE the contactor. I will also add the Stop charging signal of the zero BMS to control teh charger to 100% protect the battery.
I prepared a great video for you and couples of pictures as well ;)
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Nice work Doc. If you are carrying this charger on board make sure you keep your speed < 88 MPH.
;D
It looks like you can no go after Terry's touring records. This is the perfect quick charge solution for traveling by E Bike.
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Here's the link for the video.
Zero motorcycles F A S T & COMPACT 1 hour Charger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrKQ12GJSLs#)
The tradeoff for high power density is the fan noise you hear when the chargers are plugged in. That's much less of a problem if plugged in at a garage, but is less than ideal for public charging.
Still, if you're already wearing earplugs from riding, it's probably not that bad : P
Doc, do you know what is the temperature rise for the power supplies? Ex if 10C outside, the power supplies climb to 70C? I assume they self-restrict at a certain temperature..
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Here's the link for the video.
Zero motorcycles F A S T & COMPACT 1 hour Charger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrKQ12GJSLs#)
The tradeoff for high power density is the fan noise you hear when the chargers are plugged in. That's much less of a problem if plugged in at a garage, but is less than ideal for public charging.
Still, if you're already wearing earplugs from riding, it's probably not that bad : P
Doc, do you know what is the temperature rise for the power supplies? Ex if 10C outside, the power supplies climb to 70C? I assume they self-restrict at a certain temperature..
Yes the fan are noisy i agree, but in a garage with 4 walls reflecting the sound it is worst than outdoor without wall.. The high frequency that these are emitting is fast dissipated with the distance.
These Meanwell power supply are some of the most tough you can buy. they manage heat pretty easy but even if drivoing them at full power, i can leave my hand on them no prob. the exterior case temp with ambient at 25 celsius is about 45 degree max near the exaust. They have many protections an internal temp monitoring of many parts inside. if the temp of one o fthese parts is raching 75 or 80 celsius the power supply can shutdown. Their spec mention:
working environment: -35 ~ +70c
These are temperature, heat, overcurrent, and overvoltage protected
Like i said, i'm using these power supply for 5 years now and tested them in bert hard environment and they always worked very well ! I also discussed with someone in the telecom industry and he said they are using them in many different hard environment like in the north pole weater instrumnet, tropical weather where salt of the sea corode everything, and they work well with that!.
Spec sheet is here: http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-2000/RSP-2000-spec.pdf (http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-2000/RSP-2000-spec.pdf)
Doc
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Great work doc and a good idea to do a video.
I think the next step would be to find a way to mount them in a water resistant container such as a top box and still keep them cool. I don't think it would be too difficult, maybe downward facing fans with ducts to keep any splashes out.
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Yeah, That could be an idea, but the main purpose i planned for them is to cary them in a tank bag and to pull them out of the bag when used to allow air to cool them down. btw there is ALOT of CFM out of these 6 little turbine fans !!
I did not wanted to have them permanently mounted on the bike to keep it as light as possible for daily commuting or short <100km ride.
Doc
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It is quite interesting that Doc has put together a fast charger that could be pedestal installed for around $3k. This is a lot less than than the current standards for quick charging.
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It is quite interesting that Doc has put together a fast charger that could be pedestal installed for around $3k. This is a lot less than than the current standards for quick charging.
Well not quite, it is a fixed voltage and the expensive DC fast chargers need to be able to charge a large number of different vehicles.
Doc; With a top box you could just have an input and output connector on the box and on the bike. Then the box could be unplugged and taken off when not needed.
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The top box lid could be opened for allowing cooling air to move through it.
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Here is some interesting data for you guys.
TESTED results:
Fast Charger efficiency measured: 92.5% ( 6980W AC 6460W DC out)
Fast Charger Current consumption ( at max output power): 30.5A AC
Fast Charger max power output ( mean at end of charge) 6.60kW
Fast Charger Voltage output: 74.0V ( adjustable from 29 to 76.8VDC)
Fast Charger Current output: 91A (0.75C charging rate)
Fast Charger weight ( including connectors and harness): 13.4lbs
Fast charger dimensions: L 13.2" x W 5" x D 5"
Fast charger max temp ( case): 43 celsius
ZF9 battery temp at end of charge ( internal OEM temp sensor): 32 celsius
ZF9 Battery measured capacity (with 2 bar flashing on the gauge): 6600Wh
Doc
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Very respectable end-to-end efficiency doc!
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Two questions Doc. For adjusting the output voltage on the RSP models, do you simply use the auxiliary 5 volt supply with a potentiometer voltage divider to adjust the output voltage via the PV pin on the Meanwell?
Do you have a manufacturer and part number for the external DC charging plug on the 2013 so I can wire up the outputs of the Meanwells to the external charging port of the 2013 DS?
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JefRo: have a look here, I guess but not 100% sure it is the SBS type (brown 2013 / green 2012)
http://www.andersonpower.com/litlib/files.html/download/514 (http://www.andersonpower.com/litlib/files.html/download/514) (download the pdf!)
EDIT I have had a look at mine it is a green SBS 75X
Doc have you done more studies how to connect to the battery best and how the BMS (white and green) best work with your meanwells?
I have ordered 3 (RSP-1000-24) they can be used at 16A 230V (Standard for one phase here) and I will use my 3 Delta-q as i have done up to now => 2 phases (of 3) will work for me and I can still charge at a standard line if no 3 phase is available with on 3KW system.
If I get the Meanwell I will have a look at the battery front to see where the fuse will be connected (photo).
I look for a "current inrush" limiter for the meanwell each has 40A inrush current this will be hard for the 16A line switched on together.
Let us know of your progress!
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From now i'm bulk cahrging it but i cut at 74V . at this point the BMS data i get indicate that the celsl are well balanced at 3mV diff MAX ad that the temp is still cold. so no danger to get any of the 18 bank to overcharge above 4.2V
and if required i leave the last missing volt cahrged by the original 1kW delta Q. so it finalizt to 75.0V
I have charged about 6 times now using this fast DIY charger and it work really well !
recently i have done 152km on a single charge and measured 7650Wh used out of the battery when it showed zero bar left and still had juice on the motorcycle.. but i was tired of running the bike to empty the battwry in a dozend of turn around my neiborhood! lol....
The 7650Wh is not including the regen Wh.. it is the pure Wh from the battery only. in fact i got 8200Wh used on that run wich mean i had about 600Wh of regen.
I have posted the data in another thread.
About the trigger wires and the enable pins on the meanwell i still have not made any work to have the meanwell to stop once it get the battery/cell bank full signal.
I will work on that this automn or winter.
btw i have this $%#$&? glitch on my Zf9 since i got it .... damn.. i have to do some work with the zero service tech to fix everything...
Doc
Doc
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Here is the new working link for the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAh5pDG_wU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAh5pDG_wU)
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Doc! This is awesome! I love the chargers and the Tesla!!! :)
Plus that J1772 adapter with the voltage readout is so cool! Did you build that?
Terry
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@doctorbass
Do you need a '13 to test against?
I have a 2013 Model S 11.4, and I'd really like to be able to use L2 J1772 chargers to their full capability, I'm willing to pay for a finished unit if it works as expected.
I live just outside of NYC, I'm willing to make a trip.
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Potentially interested for my 2012 as well.
Concerns:
1. Have you found a way operate the charger with the bike powered off? I remember BSDThw proposing a solution a little while ago.
2. Weatherproofing - could this be stored and operated in a Givi side or top case, provided it was ventilated?
3. Noise - could a larger, slower ducted fan still cool the power supplies effectively instead of six small high-RPM fans?
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I'd love to figure out a way to store this sort of thing under the seat, provided it's possible to give sufficient ventilation.
Has anyone thought of how to gut these units and design a different chassis to hold it all within a good shape for the bike while providing sufficient airflow and environmental protection?
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Potentially interested for my 2012 as well.
Concerns:
3. Noise - could a larger, slower ducted fan still cool the power supplies effectively instead of six small high-RPM fans?
I love this idea for a 3 stack Michael!
instead of 6 smaller fans running at high rpm, build a back that mounts to the stack (perhaps it can double as the brackets that hold the 3 together) is airtight and forces air through all the chargers. But instead of the fan diameter being limited to the small height of each separate charger, the fan diameter can now be increased to the shortest dimension of the entire charger "stack". Perhaps one large fan right in the center of the back as a push and another in the front as a pull to achieve the same or higher CFM that the 6 individual chargers deliver.
Perhaps also, designing this "case" so to speak, weather proof doors with tight latches and gaskets can lock out moisture while riding through high humidity or rainy conditions, even if they are in also givi top case. I do not believe the givi cases are moisture proof and I believe internal corrosion would only be a matter of time if this is not done from my experience riding in all conditions.
This is something I am interested in helping develop too. You might say I'm a "big fan" of fast charging ;). Let me know what I can do.
Terry
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I drew something up just now on my ipad with a similar idea before you posted, I will post it later but it would be 'waterproof' at the cost of a little extra space required to store it using the 3 meanwell series of 120V @ 42A stack...
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If, somehow, it could be made to fit under the seat, and then the seat could tilt up from the back upon stopping, then the fan could go on the back of the unit facing up and out drawing air through the unit from the front bottom to the rear top, and the seat left in the up position during use. This might attend to most possible cooling issues? Depending on the available room under the seat, perhaps even boosting the seat up to 2 inches from its present position would be possible? Would the three PS fit lengthwise from front to back without the present PS shell, perhaps in a stack? It'd be really good to know what the dimensions of just the boards are without the PS shell.
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(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/13632872955_72f3014b8e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mLG3aH)
Here is my quick idea, and I have to admit it isn't really original as I am borrowing from things I have assumed about other products.
The challenges, outside of cooling / electrical, are to find a box which will fit them and leave room enough for the interface connections.
The idea is simple though. Get a IP67 box, probably plastic but they do make aluminum ones, and cut the bottom out. Place in bottom a 'lipped' aluminum grill heat sink with RTV. Place meanwells on top of them sideways to ensure even air flow.
Add spacers as required to get desired air flow through grill. Wire up meanwells and add interface to box as required. Place meanwells and spacers back in box and put the top on.
Place another grill (unless you can track down a two sided grill to start with) on top of the bottom and attach fan (which I hope you wired a connection for before you finalized the interface connections lol)
Thoughts?
It probably would be better to do water cooled on external heat sink as air sucks at transferring heat and to have to do it twice might not be enough.
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The chargers create a lot of heat to run that much current.
Once you seal them in an IP67 rated enclosure that heat will not escape and I doubt that it could be moved out of the enclosure without engineered liquid cooling.
My 2 cents.
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I use only RSP 1000 - 24V so it will not produce as much heat!
I have disassembled one of my "Delta-q-GIVI Box" and use the now empty GIVI E21 for the Meanwell stack.
I have parted the space in two areas one where the fresh air come into the box and a "sealed" area where the heated air runs out ( I need an additional fan to suck the air out)
I used the filter for a "kitchen" exhaust hood to prevent water entering the air inlets.
unfortunately I had used the box before therefore the mechanic / holes are not as I had done with a new box!
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It is a photo from last year at a test run (without the additional Fan I need if weather become warmer)
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Since some of you now have faster chargers - anyone want to sell their old 1 kW Delta Q charger? :)
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Since some of you now have faster chargers - anyone want to sell their old 1 kW Delta Q charger? :)
I have my 4 original delta q's for the 2012 that I don't use much anymore. Sometimes for long runs to add even more charging, but I'm thinking of getting 2 more elcons instead for my next adventure (I would do RSP 2500 meanwells, but for now I need 100% waterproofing certainty for my travels, and I feel even in a givi box in 3 months corrosion would destroy my chargers), but I can perhaps do without the extra delta Q's. If you want ones that are pretty looking, you don't want mine. They have about 45,000 miles of wear on them. ;) But if you just want to charge fast and don't mind if they're a little beat up, I'll let them go for a lot less than they cost me. I got a lot of good use out of them.
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For that price, get 2! :D
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(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/13632872955_72f3014b8e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mLG3aH)
Here is my quick idea, and I have to admit it isn't really original as I am borrowing from things I have assumed about other products.
The challenges, outside of cooling / electrical, are to find a box which will fit them and leave room enough for the interface connections.
The idea is simple though. Get a IP67 box, probably plastic but they do make aluminum ones, and cut the bottom out. Place in bottom a 'lipped' aluminum grill heat sink with RTV. Place meanwells on top of them sideways to ensure even air flow.
Add spacers as required to get desired air flow through grill. Wire up meanwells and add interface to box as required. Place meanwells and spacers back in box and put the top on.
Place another grill (unless you can track down a two sided grill to start with) on top of the bottom and attach fan (which I hope you wired a connection for before you finalized the interface connections lol)
Thoughts?
It probably would be better to do water cooled on external heat sink as air sucks at transferring heat and to have to do it twice might not be enough.
how about getting rid of the fans and sinking the meanwells into an oil filled IP67 aluminum box? The oil should have a lot of thermal mass, so it might not need a whole lot of cooling fins or anyting the box might just be enough surface area for the heat transfer. Start with cold chargers (and oil), by the end of the charge (1 hour) you might have 80 or 90C oil, but that should cool off while you ride to your next charging location. If you start off hot already, the meanwells should regulate their own current to not overheat.
-ryan
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Do you have any examples where oil, I am assuming mineral oil, is used to cool hot components? I know the big transformers on telephone poles are submerged but I don't know how much heat is given off by them.
An Aluminum ip67 would have to be used if using oil as it would likely stand up to the heat better and they if it comes down to it you can attach a heat sync with fans or a peltier I would imagine.
I bet it would weigh quite a bit as well.
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Great idea Biff to use oil for thermal mass to cool the chargers and keep the volume and weight low! Perhaps something like ATF would work well and be easy to get at any store should you need to add more for any reason. Sounds like a great project to start on! :)
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Do you have any examples where oil, I am assuming mineral oil, is used to cool hot components? I know the big transformers on telephone poles are submerged but I don't know how much heat is given off by them.
An Aluminum ip67 would have to be used if using oil as it would likely stand up to the heat better and they if it comes down to it you can attach a heat sync with fans or a peltier I would imagine.
I bet it would weigh quite a bit as well.
http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2012/09/servers-successfully-cooled-in-mineral-oil-bath/ (http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2012/09/servers-successfully-cooled-in-mineral-oil-bath/)
As Off the Grid mentioned, you might try ATF rather than mineral oil. The computer geeks use mineral oil because it is clear and looks like water, and is less toxic (I think) than ATF. I believe ATF (atumatic transmission fluid) has better thermal properties, I believe it transfers heat more quickly and takes more heat to warm up as well. So if you don't care what it looks like, and don't need to worry about spilling thousands of gallons of it, it is probably a better solution than mineral oil. The Chevy Volt cools its electric motor in an ATF bath, you might want to try whatever they use.
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Good idea.
Some people will submerge computers in oil for cooling .. all but the mechanical components, hard drives and optical drives.
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I thought ATF eats practically anything not metal? I know I use it to remove rust and to break bolts loose by mixing it 50:50 with acetone.
Computer heat generation has nothing on a charger with 7kW running through it I would imagine. All that stated I would be willing to try this experiment.
Would you strip the fans out (given they will likely die anyway) and remove the 'tops' on the chargers? Also what do you think to volume of fluid to charger should be?
Need to start looking for an IP67 aluminum case big enough for three of these. And I will have to figure out how I am going to get the connections outside the unit. It would look slick to have the J1772 connector built into it but that is just another point of failure even if you use RTV to seal it.
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CPU: 85-150 watts
GPU: 250-350 watts
motherboard, ram, SSD, assorted other: 20-30 watts
http://www.pugetsystems.com/mineral-oil-pc.php (http://www.pugetsystems.com/mineral-oil-pc.php)
7.5 kW charger @ 92% efficiency: 900 watts
You'd probably want to remove the separate enclosures and fans.
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you could use a cheap bilge pump to pump the mineral oil through a small radiator for even more cooling.
A car heater radiator are cheap to buy and good size or motorcycle radiator or oil cooler.
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Proceed with caution. 10kW is a lot power and the worst thing could happen is pretty bad.
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Some other things to consider.
The Meanwell RSP-2000 supplies begin derating (starting at 100%) at 50C, down to 50% at 70C then they switch off.
I knew I should have studied thermodynamics more closely..
Assume we are willing to tolerate a 20C rise in temps (100% performance @ 30C ambient = 86F, 75% power @ 40C ambient = 104F). Further assume convection + radiation losses are 300 watts constant *handwave*.
With these assumptions, we need to absorb 600 Wh at 30C over 1 hour, or 500 Wh at 40C over 1.33 hours.
Wolfram says we'd need around 11 kg = 22 pounds (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100+watt-hours+%2F+%281.67+kJ%2Fkg+*+K%29+%2F+20C) of oil per 100 Wh heat energy absorbed.
With the relatively low derating point, I don't think mineral oil will work as "heat storage" but instead just as a non-conductive way to move heat into a radiator.
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Doc! This is awesome! I love the chargers and the Tesla!!! :)
Plus that J1772 adapter with the voltage readout is so cool! Did you build that?
Terry
Hi Terry,
Yes i have built it with seperate parts i bought from http://modularevpower.com/ (http://modularevpower.com/)
Teh little AC Amp/Voltage display is very usefull and cheap.. i bought it on ebay for about 9$
I decided to maye my own compact J1772 adapter instead of buying one already built.
Just like my quick charger the main goal was to make everything as compact as possible.
total cost was about 150$.
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@doctorbass
Do you need a '13 to test against?
I have a 2013 Model S 11.4, and I'd really like to be able to use L2 J1772 chargers to their full capability, I'm willing to pay for a finished unit if it works as expected.
I live just outside of NYC, I'm willing to make a trip.
Thanks for the offer. i received few other demand for the 2013, but problem is time... i dont have much as i would...
It would be possible with 3 meanwell model RSP-2000-48 in serie. The best would have been 3 unit of 36V adjusted to 38V but Meanwell dont offer any 36V model at the moment.
The total power would be reduced to about 5200W. The Meanwel rsp 2000 exist in 12, 24 and 48V.
The best way to get the 116v and the max power is using 3 units of 48V trimmed to about 39V each. These are rated 42A but in the constant current/power mode these really give 45A. At 45A and 116V you get 5200W. And these wodl be used to about 80%, giving you a safety margin too
If you would use 2 Meanwell of 48V but trimmed to 56V ( their max allowable voltage) you would get 112V at about 42A wich is 4700W max but the battery would only charge to 4V per cell wich is about 80% SOC. but two meanwell is pretty compact too ;)
Each RS-2000 cost about 432$+shipping
Doc
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Potentially interested for my 2012 as well.
Concerns:
1. Have you found a way operate the charger with the bike powered off? I remember BSDThw proposing a solution a little while ago.
I did not tried that yet but i remember it required a simple mod by installing a switch that activate the sevcon individually by sending the V= of the battery to power the sevcon and allow it to activate the contactor. ( the contactor is activated by the sevcon instead of the BMM i think..
2. Weatherproofing - could this be stored and operated in a Givi side or top case, provided it was ventilated?
Well the total heat that this charger generate is considerable and the airflow would need to be maintained to the actual stock air flow.
3. Noise - could a larger, slower ducted fan still cool the power supplies effectively instead of six small high-RPM fans?
As well , as long as the cfm is restected the 3 modules would work really well. plus this cold increase cooling efficiency because the opening area where the 6 little fan are would increase alot.
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I have been charging all my ebikes with these Meanwell RSP serie in the last 6 years now and i can say these are really tough!
I have began with the RSP1500 in 2008. This one was the highest power density 6 years ago. I was charging a 24s lipo pack that i divided in two 12s parallel for charging and serie for use because the mnax voltage was 48V ( 56max)
I blew it once when i accidently connected the charger to the battery in 24s serie connection... .. so 100V dc to a 48V dc charger = bad... BUT i was able to repair it by miself i just repalced a SCR and a resistor for the crowbar circuit. I still have this meanwell rsp 1500 today and it work really well.... meanWELL !! :D
Then i bought 2 rsp1000 that i connected in serie with a shottky diode on each to protect their open circuit voltage to not go reverse if one of the menawell enable before the other... This solution was perfect for the 24s lipo and it also was 33% more power density than the rsp-1500. The 1500 is exactly twice as big as the rsp1000.
Then i decided to buy these great RSP-2000 wich are 2.5 time more power density than the rsp-1500. The 2000 are the lastest release of the RSP serie.
What i like is that all RSP have:
-The power factor correction to 0.99 ( = increase efficiency and less heat
-These are constant current and constant power limited and constant voltage adjustable from 40% to 110%
-Very tough!
-High industrial quality
Doc
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Terry gave me a deal on a couple of his old Delta-Q chargers - now I can charge at 4 kW!
OK - it's not Elcon or Meanwell... But it's a lot faster than I was charging before....
Thanks Terry!
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You're welcome! :) Did you get the J1772 adapter with the pigtails from Harlan? Or are you using your old J1772 plug from Zero and splitting the AC output?
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Haven't received the adapter yet - I used your three-way splitter. The 120V outlets at the Brentwood charging station are all 20A. I plugged two of the chargers into one of the 20A outlets, one into another 20A outlet, and one into the J1772 via the Zero J1172 adapter.
Incidentally - when I actived the Chargepoint charger - I had intended to use both the J1172 and the 120V outlet inside the charger (a little door opens up), but found out that you can't use both simultaneously. (Maybe everyone else already knew this...) If you open the door, the J-plug is locked, if you release the J-plug, the little door locks. I even called Chargepoint to ask them - and they sounded a bit surprised that someone would need both. I didn't explain any further - I just got my extension cords out....
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Haha Awesome to see this!!!
Yes, you need 2 different charge point cards to use the Level 1 and level 2 at the same time. Or to use 2 J1772's on the same station.
Can't wait to see you post about your next trip! Hopefully with the J1772 adapter from Harlan by then! :)
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Hey guys...
The RSP-2000 have a max current adjust !!!
witch translate to max power adjustment depending on the AC availlable you have
There is a pot that you can use to adjust the max current output on the rsp-2000 !!
it is located inside the power supply on the top of the vertical PCB. it is called SVR2.
you can buy one external pot of 5k and replace the actual 2kohm for this one with wires and install it on the outside for easy acces.
This will be very usefull for me when some cahrge statin are 208V instead of 240V. i will be able to limit the output current to not have the AC input to go over 30A.
This was frustrating to not be able to use the level II charge stations that are 208V because these make my charger to draw 36A instead of 30( on the 240V) and the breaker of the 30A limited charge stations trip....
Doc
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Very nice find!
I need to start on my charger build this week now I have the RFID build complete. Still waiting on my J1772 to come in though -_-
How will you know if you are under the amps of your 208V power supply? Or are you going to turn them all the way down then slowly turn them up together?
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Hi Burton,
Well as you know i have two 48V 42A in parallel then the output is connected in serie with a 24V 80A. to adjust the amp or voltage i only need to adjust the single 24V power supply because it is the one in serie so the total amp is controllee by just one since the amp are the same when in serie =)
For the 208V i have a volt/amp meter display so i know in real time the AC current at the input.
But I can adjust it by testing the charger at full power ( when battery is approaching the full charge on a 208V source and dial the pot to not allopw more than the 30A the charge station can do.
because the cahrge stations are mostly 30, 32 and 40A i just need to place a mark on the current adjust knob to note wich position correspond to the 30A at 208V at full power and ado the same for the 240V ;)
Doc
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Actually I have two in series ... or will have I should say. I didn't buy the 12v yet. I wanted to see how much of a charge I can get out of just two to save some cash.
I am going to start prepping my work area for the build tomorrow and might go out and get some 6 ga wire which isn't flexible.
BTW, what is the length of your extension cord and how do you like that length? I have 30' of both red and black flexible wire and I am trying to plan how long the cord should be. I was thinking 15' leaving 15' for everything else.
Have you tested the external potentiometer yet to see how low you can get the input current to drop? I wonder if you could run two of the RSP-2000's on one 120v 20amp circuit and if so what the output would be ;)
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I suggest you guys to also Watch for some very great deal on eBay!! technology evoluate and powerfull and compact DC source become less expensive over the last years! The Eltek Flatpack power supply also called 48V Rectifier are awsome solution! these are cheaper than the meanwell and offer constant current and constant Voltage limiting and efficiency up to 97%.
I recently found some that are 2 time more compact than the RSP-2000 for the same power on ebay!
Doc
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Hi Doc,
I am thinking of putting 4 Eltek 2s2p to charge faster my Brammo Empulse R. Do you think that the stock 53.5v so 107v in series to charge the batteries enough and let the onboard charger finish the job while charger effectively faster. I have no idea of what is the SOC at107v.
This setup would be added to the onboard 3kw charger so it would charge to around 10kw.
What do you think of this solution? Is there any risks?
Thanks in advance.
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Nunux59 I would suggest starting by measuring your pack voltage at various SOC before committing to this idea.
It shouldn't be hard to do and it won't cost you anything.
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3.82 volts per cell should put you around 60% SOC.
Aren't the Eltek chargers 3kW each? Or are you using a different model than the onboard charger?
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When putting on charge today I was at 75% SOC while 109V so 60% for 107V looks probable, I will test tomorrow or next week.
I am planning to put four Eltek flatpack2 HE in addition to the onboard charger that occurs to be also an Eltek but a different model. The Eltek flatpack2 HE have a nominal voltage of 53.5V and require modding to go to 57.5V. There is a mod for the non HE models that -may- work on the HE but I am not really sure. 60% SOC is definitely not enough for a "fast charge" so I will not buy the PSUs before being sure that I can change the voltage.