ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: frodus on April 08, 2014, 05:24:50 AM
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Saw this on ABG:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/07/zero-motors-electric-motorcycle-recall/#continued (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/07/zero-motors-electric-motorcycle-recall/#continued)
NHTSA info:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults?refurl=email&searchType=ID&targetCategory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=14V119 (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults?refurl=email&searchType=ID&targetCategory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=14V119)
Sounds like a pretty small range of dates.... probably a good chunk of those on dealer floors, but I wanted to pass the info along. Doesn't sound like anyone has had the issue yet (from forums at least).... so that's good.
Report Receipt Date: MAR 12, 2014
NHTSA Campaign Number: 14V119000
Component(s):
Potential Number of Units Affected: 94
Manufacturer: Zero Motorcycles Inc.
SUMMARY:
Zero Motorcycles, Inc. (Zero) is recalling certain model year 2014 Zero SR motorcycles manufactured December 30, 2013, through February 20, 2014, 2014 Zero S motorcycles manufactured December 26, 2013, through February 18, 2014, Zero DS motorcycles manufactured January 24, 2013, through February 4, 2014, and 2014 Zero FX motorcycles manufactured January 14, 2014, through January 27, 2014. Due to a possible manufacturing defect, the motor rotor may contact the stator while riding.
CONSEQUENCE:
If the rotor contacts the stator, the motor could seize, locking up the rear wheel which could increase the risk of a crash.
REMEDY:
Zero will notify owners, and dealers will test the motor and if it fails testing, replace it, free of charge. The recall is expected to begin in April 2014. Owners may contact Zero at 1-888-786-9316 (1-888-RUN-ZERO).
NOTES:
Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov (http://www.safercar.gov).
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My Zero S was built in December according to the VIN sticker (it doesn't say what date). So I guess I will be getting a new motor. And I was just getting used to my motor, too. Ah, the joys of being an early adopter. ::)
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Richard230,
My SR is another one that was made during this time. I had actually received a call from Zero about this shortly after the incident at the track. At the time they had mentioned they were conducting further testing to see if they could identify what was causing the problem and in the meantime for me to keep it under 85 MPH. My SR is in the shop getting a new Power Tank so hopefully the needs of the recall can get done at the same time.
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Note that this only affects model year 2014 bikes, not 2013 bikes with functionally unchanged motors. The SR motor was modified to support higher-temp magnets, but the recall includes all 2014 bikes.
I wonder if Zero changed suppliers, or modified the motor design from 2013.
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It sounds like it was a manufacturing defect in a bad batch of motors.
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That explained the sound as some have written about in here.
I remember there was one who took out the sound and put it up on the forum.
But nice they is recalling right away instead of waiting years to do something :)
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I read "Due to a possible manufacturing defect" as the motor had a defect, and because of the date range, I don't think the defect extended to other motors outside this range.... so thats good!
Wonder if we can pick up one of these motors cheap from them :) Would make a great kart motor!
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I must be physic! A couple of days ago, before reading or hearing of this recall, I was thinking how bad it would be if a motor magnet came lose and locked the rotor at lets say, 75 mph. There is no clutch to pull to unlock the rear wheel.
Been there done that.
I had my '47 Matchless piston seize at about 45 or 50 mph and the clutch failed to release due to a nut spinning off from the sudden stop of the rotation (I use Locktite now). I rode it all the way to stopped with the rear wheel locked and sliding, without going down. Not something I would like to ever experience again. The guy riding behind me said he knew I was in trouble when he saw the smoke streaming from my rear tire! :o
Trikester
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I'm surprised this is just getting picked up now. I saw it like 3 weeks ago on this site: http://canadamotoguide.com/2014/03/20/zero-recall-3/#_ (http://canadamotoguide.com/2014/03/20/zero-recall-3/#_)
I guess it isn't so much of an issue here in Canada since only 3 bikes appear to have fit the bill :P
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The bike is sold a lot more in US than Canada, that make sense since it is only for a production window on the last months.
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Interesting in that there was a delay on the SR I bought last month.
At first they said they were swapping the motor, but may have got another bike to ship.
This apparent when a different VIN was on the paperwork and had to change the VIN
given to my insurance guy.
Has Manf. February on the neck decal.
Have run my motor to 300+ Deg, so far.
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I received my motor recall notice last night. It is more detailed than the official notice. It says that I should not spin the motor over 5000 rpm (79 mph on my S, 85 mph on the SR) until the recall work is performed. The possible manufacturing defect, "which may cause the rotor to contact the stator at sustained maximum rpm", will be tested by my dealer. They will "conduct an in-motorcycle stationary screening test of the motor. Should the motor fail this test, it will be replaced with a new pre-screened motor". The work is estimated to take 45 minutes of shop time. (I assume that is to perform the test, not to replace the motor.)
My guess is that the on-bike screening test will be to run the motor at high speed for a period of time to see if it blows up and destroys the shop. If it does, a new motor will be installed - as soon as the hole in the shop's wall has been fixed. ;)
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Just got my letter, today.
Seems strange in that they had already swapped or did something just before I got the bike last month.
Last 3 of my VIN is 666 . .......... Makes one wonder. ::)
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I am trying to understand what sort of defect would cause the rotor to contact the stator when revved to over 5000 rpm. It seems unlikely to me that the rotor would expand when revved to a high, but not unusual, rpm. Perhaps some part or fastener within the rotor might fail at high speed and the rotor would come apart? It would sure be interesting to know more details about this "manufacturing defect".
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The 75-X motor serie are innrunner type brushless motor wich mean that it's the magnet that are spinning, just like the mononergy of the 2012... but the 2012 are axial flux and the 2013 and 2014 are radial flux.
The faster the 2013-2014 motor spin, the faster the magnet are pulled outside the rotor with the centrifugal force. If the mecanical system or glue that retain the magnet are deffective, the magnet might fly apart from the rotor core and immediatly make contact with the stator wich is only 1-2mm from them..
here is an exemple of inrunner brushless rotor similar principle of teh 75-X motor:
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/0/1/8/a3987372-69-motor.jpg)
Doc
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Thanks Doc. Assembling the magnets with glue bothers me a little. I can see how using the wrong glue or not applying it correctly (if glue was actually used) could be an issue. :o
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On some motor it IS glue.. just like the 3M Scotchweld epoxy DP460 or some masterbond products for magnets.
This company have motor very similar to the 75-5 Zero motor and my guess is that they are using glue since i can't see if the magnets are trapezoidal wich usually is the way to avoid glue to hold them in place
http://www.jobymotors.com/public/views/pages/products.php (http://www.jobymotors.com/public/views/pages/products.php)
Doc
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You can see the inside of the motor on the Zero that Burton bought from Electric Cowboy:
at 2:45:
Turbo's New Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dEM0KRltw#ws)
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Thanks Doc. That was an interesting video. It just reinforces my plan to keep my fingers out of the works. ;)
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lol he said "I'll have to adjust these throttle cables" ::)
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lol he said "I'll have to adjust these throttle cables" ::)
Can you not adjust them programatically? I don't try to hide my ignorance about this bike in any way :) Glad it made you chuckle.
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Would it not have been easier to buy a stock bike seeing as you don't necessarily need the added performance?
Makes me wonder how much current the SR motor could handle with the same cooling mods and some ducting/fan cooling.
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An SR was out of my budget. Originally I was looking to spend 10k.
EC added this when I first mentioned he should probably sell the bike to someone who would use its power as I wanted to streamline the bike like Terry has.
Ventilated motor and larger controller will be essential for a Vetter bike. The reason is heating related though, not power related. The Vetter fairings significantly change the way air flows around the bike and causes overheating problems without ventilating the motor and switching to a size 6 controller.
Terry also upgraded his size 4 to a size 6. Unfortunately the 2012 motor was not as good at transferring heat. The 2013 is equally bad, but after ventilating, it is actually much better.
Any way you go, you will want the upgrades, even if you don't need the power, you will need the additional cooling for streamlining. Both items also have higher efficiency due to the cooling as well. It is all around good for MPGe
Also this bike has been modified beyond physical means, it has also been modified via the diginow interface. Here is a snippet form the list of changes I was provided with.
9) maximum charge speed limit removed, you can charge upto 660 amps 40 amps through either charge port, 580 amps through controller
13) DigiNow bluetooth programming interface installed. (modify bike settings from phone) ... this is not like what Zero allows you to do, they significantly limited what you can change, this gives you the ability to change things MUCH more freely and dramatically.
If I recall EC mentioned he spent about $22k including the cost of the bike to get Turbo where it is now.
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I just had my recall accomplished. What they do is to run the motor at 6000 rpm for 20 minutes until it reaches a certain temperature. (My instrument display was set to show rpm and motor temperature when the bike was returned to me.) If the magnets don't fly off the rotor and lock the motor up, then the motor is deemed good, you get to keep your motor and you can ride off into the sunset. I was told that the problem was that the magnet adhesive was not applied correctly to some motors when they were assembled at the factory and this "stress test" is the method of discovering which motors might be defective. Fortunately, my motor passed the test.
One of the service guys said that a local cop had his Zero lock up while riding it at top speed. Other than that instance, they had not heard of any other failures.
The 20-minute stress test only required 5% of my battery power to complete. My S model made a high-pitch, but not very loud, whining noise during the test. However I was told that the HP SR model is really loud and can be heard all over the shop while it is being tested. I was also told that the service department only wanted to perform one Zero stress test per day due to the irritating (to them) noise that the motor makes during the test.
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I was also told that the service department only wanted to perform one Zero stress test per day due to the irritating (to them) noise that the motor makes during the test.
Did you tell them that you find the sound of internal combustion irritating? But then again, they probably aren't revving a gas bike for 20 minutes straight lol
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The throttle start point is programmable, not mechanically adjusted.
Trikester
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Thanks Trikester, that is what I thought. Might I add to, a lot of my videos have several takes and each one of them has at least one flub or mistake :)
Need to wait till I get my goodie box from EC containing my parts, the diginow module, and my title before I can 'adjust' my throttle :) lol
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I called Zero yesterday wondering if there was compensation for a 6 hour round trip to the dealership and they said that I can do the recall myself. My first thought was WHAT! then I calm down and John explain that it does not require any special tools just a motorcycle rear stand which I'm getting at Harbor Freight for 30 dollars.
What need to happen is explained in Richard's post but John told me 5000 rpm if I recall correctly. If the motor reaches pass 217 deg or there is a grinding sound I should shut it down and there would be further procedures to do. Also there was ferrites that I need to put on the B+ and B- cables for noise that could interfere with the Sevcon controller before the motor test is done. Also Zero wants the log from the smartphone after the test to keep for record that the recall was done.
I'm glad that Zero is finding ways around their various recalls, I know it is not inline with "standard procedures" for a recall but I would rather do this myself and save the 6 hour trip. Now I'm hoping that a motor change out is NOT required.