ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Martin on August 08, 2014, 04:54:07 AM
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So took the bike in to get the rear brake squawk fixed and update firmware. I rode it home (about 25 miles), then rode the next day (about 20 miles), then today in ECO mode the bike kept stalling. I noticed the temp gauge going to zero then back to 120 degrees. I switched to custom and the bike worked fine. In Sport also fine, back to ECO issues. Rode to work (30 miles) with no issues in Sport. Eco for the last bit with no issues. Then rode home in ECO just now, with no issues..
What is the deal?
Firmware: ver 42
BMS: ver 39
Anyone know how to get ahold of the change logs.
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If anyone is interested.
This continues to happen first ride after each full charge. I sent Zero the logs last night and received a call this morning that they are just waiting for confirmation from engineering that the bike needs some sort isolation cable (??). The stall is so bad and happens at random times. It has happened to me twice on the freeway going over 60 MPH. I had to cycle power on the bike to get going again. It also only seems to happen in ECO mode. A little scary. Needless to say, I am staying out of ECO until its figured out.
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That sounds like a faulty temperature sensor or connection to the sensor.
I'd recommend referring to it as a "cutout" rather than a "stall" to get a better conversation going.
It's probable that Eco mode has nothing to do with it, that the problem correlates maybe with ride bumpiness (which would exacerbate a wiring connection problem).
But I'm just doing some armchair analysis from what you're saying. I have troubleshooting background from nuclear engineering and don't know enough detail about Zero engineering yet to claim certainty, just ideas.
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When my temp sensor was failed - I was going into a Limp like mode, maximum speed I could maintain fell, and fell and fell until it was barely rolling over the course of about 1/2 mile - much longer than a mere "coast" from an outright stall. A few minutes stopped and off and then I could go again with the problem quickly returning. The length of the ride to trigger either got shorter and shorter or the weather got warmer and warmer... but the bike was unusable.
Support and I did chase an underseated wire in the "motor connector" which is interesting to take apart, but was not a resolution to the problem. But might be for yours... see photo for location and look.
The theory for mine was that the Temp sensor was sending a bad signal triggering thermal shutdown, but without triggering the dash warning at about 120 actual degrees due to out of range calibration of the thermistor.
Symptom identified in logs as thermistor reading of 199.9999 almost all the time, and the big clue was the Android application values for the engine never really even matching ambient temp at beginning of drive.
Eventually my bike stopped booting altogether and was remedied, after standard Zero service delays over April and May, with a replaced engine under warranty.
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Still no response from Zero. (UPDATE) I called Zero for an update and they are still waiting for engineering confirmation that it needs either an isolation cable or a controller.
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Paid better attention to the issue and here are the details. (It happens each first ride after full charge/extended cool down)
Error 25 and 49 show when the "cut outs" occur. Power cycle is required to get the bike running again. Problem only occurs with a temp less than about 145 degree motor temp. As soon as I get the motor temp up, the bike runs fine. It also seems to reset my custom mode settings. To better monitor temps, I will use my phone to capture Battery Pack and Controller temp.
So the question to my peers: Does anyone have the manual for the 2014 SR to describe errors 25 and 49?
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You can download a copy of the owners manual from Zero here:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/ (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/)
Unfortunately, it doesn't list error codes (?!!?!?). Instead, on page 3-12 describing the dashboard it lists "Errors - Displays 4-digit error codes for dealer use." .. seems like the owners manual would be a good place to list those codes.
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Zero Motorcycle Owner Manuals are very basic. They do have a few blink codes.
They generally protect Zero from liability and just tell you to take it to a dealer for everything past tire pressure. This is a disease generally with modern products. However, most Motorsport products also have a shop manual for sale that gives the owner more detailed information and procedures for common maintenance tasks and it generally is priced at one hour of shop rate.
I wish that Zero offered a shop manual with some detailed procedures for common things like wheel exchange and common electrical drive troubleshooting. You can review this forum and see what the common requests are for information. There are a lot of wheel removal threads.
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After no help from Zero, I elected to drop my bike off at Hollywood Electrics. They have had it since Friday afternoon, the counting of days begin to see how long it takes to fix the problem.
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If anyone is following this, here is an update:
Bike is on its way to the Zero Factory. Seems the issue is a little more challenging than expected.
Going to be hesitant on doing firmware upgrades if it ends up being the root cause.
Wish I could do a poll. I think I'll end up with a new controller.
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Interesting ;) it would be the first controller defect I hear since 2012 model us it!
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Zero did the following:
We installed a Controller isolation kit to remedy a noise induction issue where spurious noise was causing issues with the proper operation of the Sevcon Controller.
We also installed a replacement motor to address issues with the encoder that were seen in the logs.
I'll be back to 60 mile round trips after the 16th, so hopefully the Dyno test were conclusive.
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Rode for the first time today, after being stuck in Cabo after the Hurricane and the bike rode fine. Except that they gave it to me with the horn and the signals inoperative. Could of used the horn on the ride, if you all know what I mean. I am sure you do.
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I was speaking with a Zero employee today and he mentioned that the firmware versions 42 and below had glitches and said that versions 43 and 44 were pretty solid and recommended that bikes be updated with the latest firmware, which should solve most running issues.
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Last I heard, only 42 was available. I will have to ask what my bike was updated to.
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I hope my recollection of the conversation and numbering system was accurate. I wasn't taking notes, but it wouldn't hurt to make sure that you have the latest firmware update.
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Being that Zero had the bike for a week, I would hope that they installed the latest firmware. Also if the firmware caused the motor to go bad, thats a major issue.
My new problem is Zero returned my bike with no Horn (fixed with new fuse) and no turn signals. Still can't figure out why those are not working. I wish they had more dealers/service centers. This is becoming more maintenance than my last suzuki.
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Last entry...
Horn was fixed by replacing Fuse #3. Fuse #3 was blown because whomever put the bike back together, pinched the right rear blinker wires. As a result of the short, the flasher fired. Fixed wires, replaced flasher (with electronic flasher, so no more LED resistors) and replaced fuse. All good now.
All in all I am not very satisfied with Zero's attention. This bike was my primary vehicle (I had to rent a car, yuck) and if I hadn't called everyday it would of probably taken a month to fix. Then to get it back not street legal (horn especially), that really irked me. Luckily I am capable to fix almost everything myself (Been an A&P for 15 years, specializing in Avionics/Electrical), however fun and interesting, I bought the bike because it was maintenance free.
I asked Zero about becoming a service provider in my area since I live in Hermosa Beach, and Zero's could be popular if a shop ever opens up. Spoke to a guy today and he still didn't even know electric bikes were available. Of course, besides the service snafu, I will always recommend a Zero.