ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: trekguy on August 13, 2014, 07:39:01 AM
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What is the best method to use when charging publicly? Say for example I was patronizing a coffee shop, resturant, large gas station/convienence store etc. Do I just help myself to the outlet, or ask first?
I only had to try it once; I plugged in, then asked the woman inside if I could charge up for a bit, and she said "sure honey, go right ahead".
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I never ask. I steal the free electricity when I'm desperate and don't feel bad not asking. But then again, I'm really selfish.
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That's an excellent question. I thought seriously about it last Sunday on a long ride...I rolled into a small town, bought some iced tea at a local mini-mart, and thought about searching around for an outdoor outlet. I didn't do it and I wish I had -- I wound up having to push my bike 100 yards or so to get home.
There's something to be said for the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" philosophy. But I'm thinking that next time, I'll use the "don't tell them more than they need to know" approach. Before plugging in, walk in and say something to the effect of "Hey, my battery's weak, but I've got a charger with me. Do you mind if I plug in for a few minutes?" Don't lie, but also don't tell them it's an EV and you're asking for a bit more than a top-off of a starter battery. Plausible deniability rocks.
And DO NOT be hesitant to point out that you bought some shtuff from them! Fair's fair, after all. They're still going to make a profit off of you.
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I've never had someone tell me "no" when asked.
I scout out the plugs first, so I can say "you have a plug here, would you mind if I plugged my motorcycle in?" instead of "do you have an exterior plug?" .. the answer to the latter is almost always "I have no idea".
However, I view it as a courtesy rather than a requirement. If no one is around to ask, I wouldn't have any qualms about plugging in for a short period at an outlet that wasn't obviously private.
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I would never get myself in a situation where I needed to plug my bike in anywhere except home, in the first place, so it hasn't come up. So what would you do if they caught you hooked up to an outside outlet and said no you can't do that, or conversely if you asked and they said no?...or worst case, you tripped their circuit? Dang you guys are brave to put yourselves in that situation. I guess the only way I would ever do that is if I stopped in before the trip, asked about an outlet from the owner and knew the outlet was always available and live. Even then I might be a little anxious about it. Are there any businesses that welcome electric bikes at the corporate level? Now that would be great if you could stop at McDonalds, Walmart, Starbucks, whatever and were always welcome to plug in. It would actually be a good business move. For 30 cents worth of electricity, Starbucks would make $4 in profit from your latte.
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I've only done it once so far. After I bought a bottle of water, I asked if I could use the outlet outside to charge my battery. They probably thought I meant cell phone. I got some odd looks when I plugged in but all was good. I figure that if you actually spend a few bucks somewhere and ask nicely you are in good etiquette. You shouldn't feel guilty anyway. They can always say no. If/when EVs become more the norm, I'm sure it will all change.
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I always ask first and have never been denied (that I remember). People aren't worried that an electric motorcycle will take much electricity. Plus we are rare, so it's usually fun for hem to ask about it.
Even with my electric car most places will just let you plug in. I try to also, buying stuff helps them make he connection in he future that EV drivers will spend money if they can charge.
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I usually ask and usually they don't hesitate to say OK. A couple of times when they are hesitant I mention that I'm only going to use a quarter or 50 cents worth. One time a waitress at a bar/cafe even brought an extension cord out from inside when we discovered the the outside outlet had been disconnected by construction. I gave her a good tip after downing a couple of beers and eating a burger.
The motel I stay in Big Pine CA always lets me plug in an outside outlet and doesn't care about the small cost. However, this last time I knew I was going to do some big rides on my e-trike and use a lot more power than I usually do over a weeks time. I told them that I would leave a couple of bucks to cover it but they were nonchalant about it, don't worry was their reply. As it turned out I spent $2.50 on some epoxy to repair the door latch to my room, that a previous guest had damaged. They offered to reimburse me the $2.50 and I said that's "in the ballpark" of the power I've used so lets call it even. They thanked me.
Trikester
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Here in France, there is a "label" that more and more shopkeepers are adhering to, that of "Charging Point". When one sees the label, it means you can plug in at any moment, and don't need to be a customer.
But... the label is really meant for electric bicycles, but I don't think they'll mind electric motorcycles. But ti's nice to see them getting organized in this fashion.
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I have yet to NEED the power, but, when I am out and about, I scan for outside sockets.
Living in Las Vegas, I am often at casinos. If I find an outlet, I plug in, and, leave a note
that states that I am inside spending my money at this establishment. During my stay
I will use a few pennies of their power. I have my cell number on the note. The note
then says that if there is a problem with being plugged in, please contact me, and,
I will take my money elsewhere. Prior to leaving the Note, I had my Volt unplugged
a couple times. Since the note, None of my electric vehicles have been disturbed.
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Mike can you send a photo of the sign? I have a similar idea here in Australia love to their work
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Mike can you send a photo of the sign? I have a similar idea here in Australia love to their work
here you go
http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/france-1st-ev-electric-recharge-network-for-establishments.htm (http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/france-1st-ev-electric-recharge-network-for-establishments.htm)
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Nope, not me. EV's have gotten a bit of a moocher reputation I'm not yet ready to contribute to. We don't pay road tax, we have general tax breaks, our builders got got tax breaks, and though EV's benefits are more than superficial I still feel I am a long way from asking or charging uninvited. I've got access to free charging locations I have only considered using but still just plug in at home. Then again I am just a commuter rider... more full time riders may have "earned back" their tax breaks in EV promotion elsewhere.
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I always ask if I can charge from a commercial business's outlet. So far I have always received a negative reaction, the exception being at Alice's Restaurant, where (having been a regular customer of theirs for 40 years) they let me charge up from a dangling outlet box located on their building wall behind their rear yard fence. This doesn't seem to make their adjacent gas station attendant very happy.
While I found one local county park that would let me charge at an unused group picnic area a couple of years ago, now I get a "no" answer. I have tried at 5 different state parks and all of them either didn't have a usable 120V outlet or I was told that there was no written state park policy for allowing visitors to use electrical power and therefore permission could not be granted. At a couple of other locations, the only power outlets were in areas posted for "official vehicle use only".
Don't even bother trying to plug in at a gas station convenience store, the answer will always be "no". I gather that EVs are not appreciated at these facilities. And of course, now I am hearing more and more often that EV owners are not paying their fair share to use the public roads and need to be taxed in some way to pay for all of the damage that we are doing to the state's highways. :o
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I only once had a problem, when the staff of a fancy new parking garage unplugged my bike and left a note threatening to fine me for not paying for electricity. This was ludicrous, because they had J1772 charging stations and I clearly was just using wall power. Otherwise, I've had no problems in a year. My regular garage always lets me charge.
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I actually asked before even buying the bike. My commute is only 31M, but at the prevailing speed (70, in 55mph zone) it takes 2/3 or more of the 8.5Kwh battery. There was an outside outlet for a snowplow block heater. Well, if that's in use, I will not be using the bike! Once I knew I could plug in, I opted for the smaller, cheaper battery instead of the 11 Kwh. My silly-perhaps hope is for a 20KW replacement in a few years.
As indicated by someone else in an other reply, I also scout the premises first, as workers often do not know.
Then if possible buy an icecream, coffee or beer as appropriate and then ask to use the outlet as an established customer. Never been refused, and have been offered extension cable (through open windows at times).
If there is noone to ask, I'd just plug in leaving a phone number if I think about it.
(hmmm, reminds me of a bicycle I often had to leave for extended periods (weeks) in an office garage. I would use a number-lock to chain it to the wall, but left a transparent pouch with my name, phone and the lock combination code.
I figured if a 'bad guy' want to steal it, they'd probably cut the lock anyways without thinking. But if a custodian needed to move it, they could :-)
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Nope, not me. EV's have gotten a bit of a moocher reputation I'm not yet ready to contribute to. We don't pay road tax, we have general tax breaks, our builders got got tax breaks, and though EV's benefits are more than superficial I still feel I am a long way from asking or charging uninvited. I've got access to free charging locations I have only considered using but still just plug in at home. Then again I am just a commuter rider... more full time riders may have "earned back" their tax breaks in EV promotion elsewhere.
We are NOT mooches, and I resent being called one. We didn't write the tax code, and you can't blame the players for playing the game by the rules of the game. If you don't like the rules of the game, get them changed.
I see it quite the opposite way. We're paying a premium for our vehicles because we truly believe this is a critical technology for the future, and if nobody else is going to support developing the product and the market, we're willing to pitch in a few of our own bucks. Getting a tax break is only partial compensation for that. And do you have information that Zero received any special treatment in developing their business? I know people hate Tesla for receiving special treatment, when all they got was an SBA loan, which they paid back, in full, years early. Their CUSTOMERS receive a tax break for buying (although that benefit hasn't been forwarded to 2014 yet by our do-nothing Congress), but Tesla has nothing to do with that.
We are NOT mooching off of anybody. We're helping develop a technology, a product and a market out of our own pockets.
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I plugin whenever, wherever - as long as it won't create a tripping or electrical hazard. I suppose there may come a time when electric vehicles are too numerous for this type of behavior. I remember reading this story a few months back.
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/314666/40/Electric-car-owner-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice (http://www.11alive.com/news/article/314666/40/Electric-car-owner-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice)
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That ended up having little to do with charging and more to the fact that the school had asked him not to play tennis on their courts again. Also, he was apparently a jackass to the cop.
To the point, I have occasionally plugged in without asking if I couldn't find anyone to ask. Haven't left a note with my phone number but that is the best way to do it.
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My on-the-road recharge policy:
- If at a parking garage, charge without asking. I'm not worried that I'll flip a circuit breaker as garage outlets are intended for industrial use and the parking fees are so absurdly high I figure my few cents worth of electricity use is covered and then some.
- If at service station or service/convenience station I first scout out an outlet and if I find one outdoors go inside to buy something. While buying I'll ask the clerk if I can plug in for a while to charge my battery. I don't explain what kind of battery because that will raise all kinds of questions that may lead to a "no" and I'm not concerned that I'm going to flip a circuit breaker because, as in a garage, these circuits if built to code are designed for high load anyway. To my mind the profit on the over-priced item I've purchased more than covers the electricity I use.
- If at a restaurant or coffee shop same deal as a service station. Building code for restaurants is also stringent. Once seated I'll ask. If I sense a friendly vibe in the place even if I haven't found an outdoor outlet I'll ask if there's an outlet near the back door to the kitchen that I can run my power cable from to my bike.
Using the policy above I have yet to be turned down. That said, I bet it makes a big difference which US state or country you're in. In the friendly mid-west USA, no problem. Here in the northeast US where the motorcycle season is short and an electric motorcycle is a curiosity, no problem. In California where the place is teeming with EVs, more of a problem.
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Just yesterday at my commute destination city.
Officers woke up Grover because he allegedly had items plugged into the city's outlet. They then seized a 24-inch sword from under his sleeping bag.
...ticketed for use of electricity without permission...
http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/slumbering-sword-suspect-allegedly-pilfered-power/article_244c89ca-0386-5cfb-8eaa-8cebc7664a3c.html (http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/slumbering-sword-suspect-allegedly-pilfered-power/article_244c89ca-0386-5cfb-8eaa-8cebc7664a3c.html)
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What an amazing partial story! What was plugged in? Did he pay taxes in that city? Why was he in a sleeping bag at 6:20pm? Of course, a sword makes everything better.
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Sounds like a fishing expedition to get him off the streets. Book him with something, sort out the details later.
Under the assumption that this guy was homeless, he probably had a cellphone plugged in to charge. Leaving it plugged in all night would consume about a tenth of a cent of electricity (10 Wh).
Absurd.
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I'll bet he was using an electric blanket and the sword was actually an electric carving knife. ;D
Those public electrical outlets attract too many dangerous criminals. Get rid of the outlets and you get rid of your criminals. ::)
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It's Wisconsin, but not winter enough for electric blanket. My guess is cell phone too. Authorities got real particular a few years ago when protesters occupied the Capitol for several days. Disallowing cell charging did dampen coordination of the protesters and that authoritarian streak, now started, runs strong around here still. My Schumacher Power station was very handy those nights to avoid citation. Besides not charging, I don't assemble in groups over 20 people (it was just 4 for a while), hold signs near or in the Capitol. (We still are free to pray all over the place - just don't sing.)
A bit of a rant, not quite off topic, but just know some of us are operating under severe scrutiny of our actions and when something an innocuous as charging a cell phone gets us slapped down, I'll not be charging my Zero without permission anywhere. Even now I'm invited to charge for free (at selection stations) and am not quite ready to do it.
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http://wbay.com/2015/06/04/school-charged-fee-for-plugging-in-boom-box-at-state-capitol-building/ (http://wbay.com/2015/06/04/school-charged-fee-for-plugging-in-boom-box-at-state-capitol-building/)
An elementary school trip plugged in a boom box at Wisconsin's Capitol - and got $15 bill in the mail.