ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: Burton on September 14, 2014, 03:09:06 AM
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Figured I would start my own thread here as I am ready to start building out my charging solution.
The build will start with three RSP-2000's ... two 48's and one 12 then later expand with another set of 48's in the future. (or I might just say screw it and buy all 5 at once to get a price break)
I am making this thread to both document the build and confirm parts before ordering them. I will adjust the build as required. There will be both images and video in this series so others can learn from what I make.
Chargers in question:
http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-2000/RSP-2000-spec.pdf (http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-2000/RSP-2000-spec.pdf)
Configuration (as shown below)
Two 48's in series with another 12 when the NEG switch is at poll A and the POS switch is at poll A
Two 48's in series parallel to two 48's in series, in series with a 12v when the NEG switch is at poll B and the POS switch is at poll B
[note IDK if it would be cheaper to do two separate stacks of 3 chargers in series or to do it with the proposed switches and 5 total chargers. I can see where having two separate stacks would have it's benefits. ]
If I don't have access to two J1772's I can simply switch to a single "stack" solution. This first stack is what I will build out first.
I assume I also need to make switches for the current sharing configuration so it can switch from 3 in series to (2s p 2s) 1s (this should be "fun" to figure out from the limited information about parallel current sharing at the bottom of the spec sheet)
First I will start off with the new images I made based off of DoctorBass's suggestions http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3503.msg21935#msg21935 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3503.msg21935#msg21935)
Wire diagram less wiring required for voltage sharing.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3920/15225342771_d4643cd288_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pcpRXR)
Same as above but just output wiring
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5558/15041666699_0e03421673_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oVbtt2)
I assume I would be safe with a 20% buffer for voltage and current limit on the Schottky Diodes and I found these on the mouser page http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/205/L271-79525.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/205/L271-79525.pdf) I will need confirmation these are ok before ordering but they seem like overkill to me :) They are in a pair configuration so I would need 5 of them unless DrBass suggest otherwise.
Some things I have yet to finalize:
- wire gauges and connectors for all wires in circuit
- Receptacles and plugs (do I want to go with a 14-50p and have a conversion box(s) from J1772, or just go straight J1772)
- Need to confirm diodes and placement
- Need to confirm trimmed voltage of each RSP module
- Need to confirm settings of each RSP module
- Need to figure out current sharing settings / wiring for total stack and add switching array as required.
- Mounting and enclosure(s)
- Monitoring equipment?
I have a feeling this month is going to be an expensive month between all the metal I have to order for the subframe and the charging solution >_<
As always Input welcome.
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Are the center diodes at the "Battery Neg relays" not in the wrong direction?
The hole system looks very complicate to me. I do also use one diode in series when doing my charger-project it prevent the return current and saves a lot of other problems, but one at a string is enough. Don't underestimate the powerloss =>heat at a diode with your current!
You need diodes parallel at each output - it will protect the charger if it is not on/fails. (using a series Diode to decouple the battery revers current allows me to leave this protection diodes)
I never saw the schematic you use for a diode so it makes it harder to tell if it is OK or not.
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Why are you using a 12V RSP in series? I'm also thinking about building such kind of a charger and I think with the 2x56V of two RSP-2000-48 you're already at a pretty high SOC where the charging current is anyway limited. So i figured at this SOC I'd just let the onboard charger finish the job?!
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Why are you using a 12V RSP in series? I'm also thinking about building such kind of a charger and I think with the 2x56V of two RSP-2000-48 you're already at a pretty high SOC where the charging current is anyway limited. So i figured at this SOC I'd just let the onboard charger finish the job?!
I believe you needed 117 volts to get a full charge on the 2013 S. Two 56's would be 112 volts which is why I included the extra 12 volt power supply in series.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3503.msg21952#msg21952 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3503.msg21952#msg21952)
Are the center diodes at the "Battery Neg relays" not in the wrong direction?
You need diodes parallel at each output - it will protect the charger if it is not on/fails. (using a series Diode to decouple the battery revers current allows me to leave this protection diodes)
Sorry you are right the symbol is wrong -_- wasn't to awake when making this lol
There updated with questions bellow:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/15237812015_ecf5297bb6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pdvLCP)
When you say parallel at each output do you mean like the diodes at position #2 or #1?
If I am reading this wrong can you point me to a link online showing what you are recommending?
Thanks!
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Yeah, but do you want to charge with full power until 100% SOC? I thought it would be enough to charge full power until about 90% SOC and then let the onboard charger finish...
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I tried to explain with the diagram below. It is a standard scenario when driving things in a daisy chain. I think with a battery as load it will not happen so easy!
The upper left is what you normally see, if the top RSP is off it will be forced to run the current trough its inside in reverse! Therefore it could happen like the top right diagram shows that you have a high negative voltage at your supply that will likely kill it.
The bottom diagram explain how the parallel diode save your device because it will only see 0.4-0,7V depend on your diode material!
I agree with Mr. Fusion if you don't need to charge your last 10% so fast it will be enough to use the 112V. Also if you don't reduce the current when you reach the battery end voltage your have to shut off the chargers and you will see the battery has ~80-90% because the high current has raised the voltage!
Have you thought how to protect the system?
Where do you feed the current to your system? I fear quick charger input is fused to low and the wires are to small but I don't know I never saw the 2013S from inside.
If you feed at the point the quick charger do; it will be like feeding to the Sevcon +/- Connection. This is what the 2013+ do but you have to take care, you first have to "wake up" the Sevcon before you feed current at the +/- because if the Sevcon is not slowly "precharged" it will nearly shortcut your chargers- the charger are current limited but the Sevcon can be destroyed.
If you start your onboard charger first it will do the wake up...
But you should use the control wire from your quick charger port to see if your bike is ready and more important if your battery pack is not in need to switch off. I believe since 2013 the BMS can cut off the battery with its main relay but the correct way would be to see if the control wire is released from ~0V back to the value you pull it.
Trikester has explaint how he use this wire -
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2698.msg24006#msg24006 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2698.msg24006#msg24006)
-Personally I have watched how my 2012 Deltaq was doing it, it only connect 3.3V to the control wire (I used 10-20KOhm in series) and if the Bike will charge it pulls the line to Bat - (~0V) if eq the Battery is out of balance it my happen one cell reach the 4.15V but the pack is lower 116.2V the control wire is released and you should shut off your chargers now.
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Ok so you are using the diodes to route the voltage around the individual chargers. I will update the diagram bellow to make sure I understand what you're talking about.
I get what you two are saying now >_< Since 117 would be a 100% SOC coming up short at 112 wouldn't be too bad. I think DrBass pointed out the 125% current you get when putting the RSP's in current limiting mode would drop some when you trim them from the stock 48v to 56v. I will get two 48's and see how they work out and move on from there.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/15054428850_9281998ef1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oWiTd7)
What voltage is a 0% state of charge on the 2013 S ?
I planed on hooking up my output voltage from the RPS's to the controller on the B+/- terminals as they hook directly through the contactor. When the bike goes into charge mode (by plugging in stock charger first) it closes the contactor and allows more amps through than the stock anderson connector will because it is fused for only 30 amps. I was informed by EC this is likely the easiest method to do safely.
How long do you have to wait after starting the stock chargers before turning on the aux chargers?
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Ordered two RPS-2000-45's ($930 shipped)
Haven't got any other parts yet. I might just wire each to a Nema 5-20p (?) and then run them through a 14-50p to 3 x 5-20r (so I can plug up my stock chargers as well) and then make or buy one of the J1772 to 14-50r boxes.
http://cordtec.com/products.asp?id=715&classId=234 (http://cordtec.com/products.asp?id=715&classId=234)
http://modularevpower.com/Sales_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapters.htm (http://modularevpower.com/Sales_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapters.htm)
This way I can charge at a J1772, 14-50r or individual 5-20p house circuits (on their one fuses each)
I need to get my wire gauge chart out so I can figure out what wire I need to buy and connectors / terminals.
Going to ride Turbo into work today, 52miles round trip. Will likely take it the speed limit to see what battery power I have left when done. It is 65 out right now but it will be low 50's this week.
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The power supplies are due in mid next week. :/ gives me time to get other components in the interim.
Slightly off topic. Went into work today and started with 10.58 battery capacity and ended with 5.512 meaning I used 5.068 kW for the 29 miles traveled but the zero app says I only use 4 with an average of 137watts per mile when it was really 175.
Going to have to get a cycle analyst to see my watts real time :) going to have to dig up docs post and see what I need to get this done.
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I have been giving this some thought and need "real" electrical input.
My objective is pretty simple. I want to carry the least amount of adapters / wires required to charge from a 120v nema 5-15/20, 240v 14-50, and J1772
My thoughts are to take a 14-50p and split it three ways. The split ends would be where the chargers plug in if all interfaces are 5-15. Then have a J1772 to 14-50r for use when using J1772 sources. (example but with 6-20 http://visforvoltage.org/forum/12613-charging-multiple-nissan-leafs-same-time-one-charging-station-evse (http://visforvoltage.org/forum/12613-charging-multiple-nissan-leafs-same-time-one-charging-station-evse) )
Another problem is the nema 5-15 is rated for 15amps and the RSP-2000-48's pull 16A/115VAC and 10A/230VAC. Does this just mean I increase the cable size to 12awg from 14awg?
The existing extension cord on the bike is 14awg C13 to 5-15p. However the C13 receptacle attached to the power supply has 12awg cable running to it which makes me think I can upgrade the wire. But will a 5-15 survive 240v @ 10 amps?
Any other suggestions more than welcome, I want to order parts ASAP! :)
EDIT:
Should I just wire up the two RSP-2000's with a 6-15 or 6-20 then make all three splitting off the 14-50 the same type. I would then have to wire up a C13 to 6-15 or 20 or just require the outlet to also be 6-15/20 an then make a adapter cord for it. I would also need at least one, if not 3, 6-15/20 to 5-15 for the rare case I am at someones house and they have at least 1 and up to 2 circuits I can plug into at 120v and 20amps.
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Hey Burton, you might be interested by the setup i made.
I am using the popular Powerpole 30 ( model PP30) connectors that when used with gauge 10 they can take 45A continuous but are really small.
I added them to all NEMA 6-50, NEMA 14-50, NEMA 6-30P and my J1772 adapter.
This is very compact and lightweight and reliable!
take a look:
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I wish you responded a half day earlier >_<
I like your setup and will likely adopt it. I have 3 x L6-20P, 4 x L6-20R inbound as I was going to do a 14-50 to 3 x L6-20R and then wire the chargers with the L6-20P (including stock) and then make a J1772 to 14-50 and some others ... But your solution beats them all in size and weight.
Going to have extra plugs and receptacles laying around now -_-
Now that I am thinking about it I can charge through the stock Anderson connector with a single stack as it is under 30amps
I will likely wire a PP30 inline with the stock C13 outlet as well so I can use it on top of the meanwells ... which came in today ;)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15205310197_452f2e5a48.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/paDbYD)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15160235850_bc25a3d9fe.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/p6EaWJ)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2942/15391499252_7fe5984ea3.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ps6suL)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3857/15160362818_1998d1153c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/p6EPFQ)
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Are you using the size 45 connector pins in the PP30's?
I would love to see more detail on the circuit your using for your J1772 with display ;)
What gauge wire did you use for your meanwell stack input and output?
Crap just remembered I haven't ordered my diodes yet >_< need to hunt them down again :/
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Hello Burton,
I could have posted these pictures sooner but my crapy Samsung galaxy ACE II X is in problem with the usb and SD card and my computer is also not reconizing it... Anyway... I hate these poor processor low budget cellphone.. that's the last cheap cellphone i'll have!
In fact i have used the PP30 contact that i used a long nose cutter to enlarge the hole and insert the AWG 10 Silicon ultra flexible turnigy wire ( RC stuff again...)
I could have use dthe 45A contact but i hathe these and dont have the right tool for them. I only have the tool for the pp30 contact.
All my probe, aligator connections, parallel and serie adaptor are made of Anderson connections. The advantage is that you dont have any MALE or FEMALE.. these are all working together and remain protected. :)
The J1772 circuit is pretty simple and i could have just built it myself but i bought the entire J1772 plug with the communicating circuit because i tought it was complex... than i received it and discovered that it's just a kind of resistor voltage divider. It's simple as this:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_i_c2BM_uBw4/TR9mOulEE5I/AAAAAAAACDs/8dVMihzK9JA/s1600/J1772-1.jpg)
I have bought the J1772 connector here at Tucson EV: http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html (http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html)
I have bought the grey plastic box at Home Depot nd the current/voltage display on ebay for about 10$ http://www.cafr.ebay.ca/itm/Hot-Dual-Display-AC100-300V100A-LCD-LED-Panel-Meter-Current-Voltage-Transformer-/191192554719?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c83f6dcdf (http://www.cafr.ebay.ca/itm/Hot-Dual-Display-AC100-300V100A-LCD-LED-Panel-Meter-Current-Voltage-Transformer-/191192554719?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c83f6dcdf)
I have used 14 gauge wire to parallel all the AC input and used silicon ultraflexible 6 gauge with SB-50 Anderson connector.
The 6 gauge is becoming a little hot ( 110F) but it is built for that =) I did not want to use 4 gauge these are too heavy... but in my case i'm running 90A into them... if you run lower this will be ok too.
two parallel RSP-2000-48 give about 90A DC but it depend on how do you tweak the voltage from the nominal value.
btw if you parallel them ( in 2s2p config) YOU MUST CONNECT THE CURRENT SHARE PINS LIKE SHOWN IN THE TECHNICAL DOCUMENT. This will equalize and share the current equally between all paralleled meanwell.
When connecting in serie it is not required.. you only need to ensure that all serie section have a parallel diode to their output in normally non conducting mode.
Right now i am reverse engineering one of my RSP power supply to understand howe the current regulation circuit work and i'll add a potentiometer to adjust the current output . This will be usefull in situations where itS, only 208V and 30A availlable... in that case at 208V each psu draw 12A wich represent 36A AC and trigger OFF most of the 30A rated charge stations... so when i have to use one that is 208V i'll be able to reduce the current to 30A.
3x RSP 2000 draw 30.5A at 240Vac and 36A at 208Vac.
These are the data you might find interesting that come from the original thread:
TESTED results:
Fast Charger efficiency measured: 92.5% ( 6980W AC 6460W DC out)
Fast Charger Current consumption ( at max output power): 30.5A AC
Fast Charger max power output ( mean at end of charge) 6.60kW
Fast Charger Voltage output: 74.0V ( adjustable from 29 to 76.8VDC)
Fast Charger Current output: 91A (0.75C charging rate)
Fast Charger weight ( including connectors and harness): 13.4lbs
Fast charger dimensions: L 13.2" x W 5" x D 5"
Fast charger max temp ( case): 43 celsius
ZF9 battery temp at end of charge ( internal OEM temp sensor): 32 celsius
ZF9 Battery measured capacity (with 2 bar flashing on the gauge): 6600Wh
and original thread: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3085.15 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3085.15)
Good luck and dont forget to cvontinu posting pics !!
Doc
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I actually have the same image you posted in my zero folder on my computer :) I was more interested in how you wired your display and LED (if you have time to share)
diode question for you. Is 150V reverse, with Forward Continuous Current 30Amp good enough for this application? Forward voltage drop would be around 1v if I recall with something like that and 200Amp peak current. I assume with a Dual Common Cathode diode you would simply use pins 1 and 2 ignoring pin 3? Do they need mini heat sinks? (I know when I use to assemble laboratory equipment ours had heat sinks on them)
Our 2013 Anderson connectors have silicon wires on them. I love that stuff but man it is expensive >_< I think the cheapest I can get it is 1.75ft and I doubt I am going to care what color it comes in. I can use the PP45's to indicate that. I will need to track down some sleeve material for the wires as well.
Do you find your small extension cord to be long enough and if so how long is it?
I wonder what the connector is on the stock Aux charging circuit and if I just rip it out :/
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Ok got everything I need for this build that I cannot get locally coming in the mail.
Wire, diodes, connectors, etc.
My rig will have the chargers output to the SBS 75X with inputs through the PP45's
PP45 Y adapter (should be fun to make)
14-50p to PP45
J1772 to PP45
5-15 to PP45
10' or 15' PP45 to PP45 cable (need to find a cheap sleeve)
easy250 to PP45
I will likely also replace the stock C13 connector with a PP45 connector to make things easier. Expect a full write up for each with pictures and a parts list in the near future.
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Last night I wired my two RSP-2000-48's power in parallel to three joined PP45's then wired up the 14-50p ignoring the neutral pin to three PP45's and fired them up. Man these things are quiet. I half expected them to be whiny 0_0
Testing the voltage and each PSU gave out 48 volts on the dot. Will do some more wiring later when I get home.
I might just solder my J1772's pins as I don't have a four-way crimper and I want to have this thing working by this weekend. So a blow torch and some solder should work ^_^
This build is looking like it wont take much time at all to complete. I will likely finish it long before my extra parts I ordered come in for the signal circuit of the J1772.
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Ok great! keep us informed!
btw I have posted info on how to adjust the max current limit on the output o fthese RSP-2000. this is very usefull when the AC source you have is not rated for the max power the RSP require at full load.
Doc
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I saw your post about the 5k external pot ;) I will add this in the future for now I just need a way to charge fast at a L2 J1772 power source.
Completing this will let me get certain parts machined to fit as I need to travel over an hour at highway speeds to get to the machine shop I have access to.
A lot of this build seems so easy I don't really know what to document. I will likely just make a video or two to go over the parts and the circuit then provide a list of sources for the parts. (Any suggestions from those who plan on doing this are welcome)
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Hey Burton,
Been following all of these quick charger threads and have been trying to come up with the best quick charger option for my R6 conversion. I came across an idea that may help you out. Why not get a cheaper 12V power supply like this one or one with more amps available...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59242&hilit=12V+server+supply (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59242&hilit=12V+server+supply)
That would save you $400 and give you the same power with minimal weight penalties. Probably the route I'll be going down in the near future.
-Kyle
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Already spent 900 on the ones I have ;)
Hat said what is the power input specs or the model / manual for those PSU's?
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More goodies. Would have powered up tonight but I don't know how I am going to connect my diodes :/
Instead I wired up my J1772 connector less the sensor circuit, then wired a C13 connector, wired the Chargers in series, and made a Y connector.
How i soldered my pin connectors.
http://youtu.be/gYQ-ExpKNfo (http://youtu.be/gYQ-ExpKNfo)
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Already spent 900 on the ones I have ;)
Hat said what is the power input specs or the model / manual for those PSU's?
Well yes but you wont spend $450 more on that 12V supply maybe. That is if you decide to go that route.
There are quite a few supplies like the one I linked which are well documented on ES and RC vehicle forums.
The one I listed is 2.5lbs, 13"x3"x1.5". It does 12V and maybe up to like 13V with some wiring. It is rated to 55A.
My plan right now is 2 RSP2000-48 and one of these. 12lb, 5.5kW or so for ~$900. Good reliability too based what I've seen out of reviews of both units.
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Hey Kyle,
I know also that there is some great cheap psu like the famous HP ESP120 of 3kW 52V 57A at about 150$ shipped... but some are not constant current and or require some mod to be CC-CV witch is additional cost. German people have made some PCB to do the CC-CV but they sell them like 95$ each..
The Meanwell RSP choice is wen quality and durability is required wich the meanwell does perfectly! the server psu are not made for the same environmental spec and are more sensitive and dont take alot of abuse like the RSP does. It's like comparing a A123 cell with a Headway...
As well the meanwell are more expensive but i think the high quality and nearly plug and play wort it. These are also isolated so serie connection is not a problem.
Doc
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How i soldered my pin connectors.
It best to crimp if you can, they are crimp terminals.
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It best to crimp if you can, they are crimp terminals.
Is there any electrical disadvantage to soldering vs crimping?
I would have crimped if I had the tool in hand but I need the charger for this weekend and cannot get a crimper for a reasonable price that soon.
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It best to crimp if you can, they are crimp terminals.
Is there any electrical disadvantage to soldering vs crimping?
I would have crimped if I had the tool in hand but I need the charger for this weekend and cannot get a crimper for a reasonable price that soon.
Best is to solder and crimp ! ;)
All what you want is the lowest resistance between the wire strands and the contact connector. When crimping the wire strands and connector are closer together and nearly melted together by the incredible force of the crimp.
Just solder is not the best. solder have very high resistance compare to copper and when used as a filler between gap it is also high resistance .
Crimping + soldering is the best. all wires strands are very close to the contact and the solder fill all air gap and improve to lower the resistance and also have a better heat transfer from the conector to the wire witch increase the ampacity.
Doc
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Figured it was something like that. I will order the 4 way crimper for pins and when they come re do my pins ;)
When I use to assemble laboratory equipment we would always crimp then solder as well on the important connectors.
And thinking back we also used silicon insulated 10 AWG wires or 6 AWG wires for our hot plates which were mounted on a rotating platform. The wires came through the top of the housing into a plug on the rotating plate then another plate with the heater elements (RTV'ed into place) was placed on top matching the plugs up.
I really should dive back into my electrical engineering books when I have time. >_<
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I will post an update video later tomorrow of the tests today.
I got the diodes on, made the extension cord, wired up a temporary circuit for the J1772, and then tested the whole thing through my 14-50 outlet.
I will have to test it more but there was an issue with the chargers being plugged into the anderson first. I believe I needed to plug them into the anderson after they started up and not before.
If I plugged them in before starting them up they would go into charging mode for a couple seconds then one of the two would get a red LED and both would power into standby mode.
If I started the chargers up, let them run a second, then plugged in the anderson connector they would go into charging mode and stay in charging mode.
With the voltage maxed on both photometers the pack went to 112v or 84% and it took about one hour to get there from about 30% charging at 51 amps or about 5100-5300 watts. This with the stock charger plugged in though I don't know if the app added the chargers watts together or simply took the greater of the two inputs and used it. The chargers went into standby mode the moment the voltage was 112.4
Tomorrow I will come home and get my charger, extension cord, and the J1772 connector to make sure it works. I had to get some potentiometers and set them to 1.3k and 2.74k respectively to make the sensing circuit but I believe it should work.
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Well the J1772 circuit works but it appears I blew my quick charging fuse last night and didn't even realize it 0_0
Just tested it and it didn't ring through ... it was also a 30 amp fuse and not the 45 amp I thought it was upgraded to -_-
Going to homedepot now so I can get the terminal connectors I will need to connect to the sevcon controller directly instead and I will likely recycle the anderson connector as I have another set of pins I can use ;)
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Ok. Tonight's test at home was much better.
I replaced the fuse, wired up some terminals / wires / pins to connect to the sevcon controller directly and started charging. I was pushing in about 50 amps (I think 10 was the stock charger) most of the time and it took the battery all the way up to 90% no problem (~115V) and then slowly brought it up to 95% (~115.6V) while dropping amps to whatever the stock charger can do (I think 10amps) for the last 5%.
This would mean yesterday when the charger shut off at 112.4V it shut off because of the fuse blowing ^_^
This also means two stacks of these (requiring two power sources) could give you a 1C charge rate to 90% easily.
Very cool stuff. I also found time to wire up my 5-15 and 6-30 connectors using the last of my Silicon wire.
I will take some pictures when I get a chance then start making the how to series for this basic build. I suspect in the future I will expand on it to have indicator lights, switches, etc.
Oh Trikester, I tried putting a 100k ohm resistor from B- on the controller to the extra pins on the anderson and it did nothing. I didn't expect it to as they don't connect to anything at all :/ So will likely have to stock with the stock controller to trip the contactor for now.
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So just to clarify. You have two RSP-2000-48s (voltage maxed out) and the stock chargers running. This setup had 50A charge flowing until about 115V? Or did the current drop before that voltage?
It's good to see that once you get to 116.4V that the RSP-2000 supplies dont start doing anything weird and the onboard chargers keep pushing the voltage to a full charge even if slowly
Thanks for sharing
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Hi Burton
Nice work, thanks for sharing!
Did you connect a diode in series to the chargers?
greets
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Mr. Fusion, Diode in serie to protect are not usefull becasue the CV seting of the stack of power supply is always higher than the voltage fof the battery so the current flow only in one direction. What is important is to have diode in parallel to each power supply to protect against reverse current.
Also a serie diode would make a big heat problem.. even a good shottky diode would have about 0.6V at 50A witch would need to dissipate about 30W with additional heatsink.
Burton, To get the voltage maxed out and keep the CC for an extended period you should connect the voltage sense input of each power supply to the high current connections. you can connect the S- of the first power supply to the end connection of the high current NEG wire and do the same for the positive of the 2nd power supply ( on the S+)
This wil make the RSP-2000 to keep high current longer and will compensate for the voltage drop in the high current wires. This reduce by about 5% the charge time.
I did that on my setup and it work well 8)
Doc
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Mr. Fusion, Diode in serie to protect are not usefull becasue the CV seting of the stack of power supply is always higher than the voltage fof the battery so the current flow only in one direction. What is important is to have diode in parallel to each power supply to protect against reverse current.
Hi Doc
What happens when the max. voltage (112V) of the two RSPs is reached and the stock charger continues to charge the batteries? Then the battery voltage should exceed the max. voltage of the RSP stack. I read that the meanwells shut off with over voltage protection starting at 57.6V -> total of 115.2V. They should be OK until 67.2V -> 134.4V, but how to ensure that the voltage is equally distributed among the two meanwells?
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So just to clarify. You have two RSP-2000-48s (voltage maxed out) and the stock chargers running. This setup had 50A charge flowing until about 115V? Or did the current drop before that voltage?
Yes as it is set up now the current did not drop till after 90% charge after which the current slowly went down as the voltage got closer to 115.7 (the resting voltage with both meanwells pots set to max voltage)
Burton, To get the voltage maxed out and keep the CC for an extended period you should connect the voltage sense input of each power supply to the high current connections. you can connect the S- of the first power supply to the end connection of the high current NEG wire and do the same for the positive of the 2nd power supply ( on the S+)
I had been meaning to ask you about the sensing circuit as I saw you using pins 1 / 2 (the sensing pins) on your pictures.
Just to clarify
FIRST CHARGER (POS OUT) / ( NEG TO SECOND CHARGER POS )
S+ to POS OUT
S- to FIRST CHARGER NEG TERMINAL ?
SECOND CHARGER (NEG OUT) / (POS TO FIRST CHARGER)
S+ to SECOND CHARGER POS TERMINAL ?
S- NEG OUT
I will make a better video showing the charging / setup this weekend now I know what went wrong in the first video. I should probably do this after setting up the sensing circuit; will have to see if I have some pin connectors sitting around as I don't think I do -_- I guess I could simply update the video later though for those interested to see it now.
EDIT: (adding video I just shot)
http://youtu.be/sYivalPInPw (http://youtu.be/sYivalPInPw)
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Burton,
I did a quick video with some details for you here:http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI (http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI)
Enjoy!
Doc
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Nice explanation :) Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Yeah I blew my 30 amp fuse already lol. I removed the pins from the anderson connector and insulated them and just installed them on my controller instead.
Anyone know what the 40pin connector brand is so I can get pins for it?
I know the chargers have a .5pitch for their pins. I swore I had some laying around so I will have to see if I can find some.
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So just to clarify. You have two RSP-2000-48s (voltage maxed out) and the stock chargers running. This setup had 50A charge flowing until about 115V? Or did the current drop before that voltage?
Yes as it is set up now the current did not drop till after 90% charge after which the current slowly went down as the voltage got closer to 115.7 (the resting voltage with both meanwells pots set to max voltage)
Sweet! I'm sold haha. Thanks for the great videos too
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Tomorrow I should be able to make a charging video as I am taking the bike out. I will time it to see what it can do. Granted this will be before the sensing circuit as I don't have any single .5pitch pins laying around ... guess I could always solder the wires to the pinouts but I rather not as I will have to clean them later.
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Nice explanation :) Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Yeah I blew my 30 amp fuse already lol. I removed the pins from the anderson connector and insulated them and just installed them on my controller instead.
Anyone know what the 40pin connector brand is so I can get pins for it?
I know the chargers have a .5pitch for their pins. I swore I had some laying around so I will have to see if I can find some.
BUrton,
I think i remember that the 0.5 pitch pins connector number are mentionned in the PDF of the RSP-2000
Doc
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Yeah that one I wasn't worried about finding the pins for since I could use singles for it. The one I need crimp pins for the most is the 40pin connector on the BMS so I can wire the pins on the anderson connector to them to close / control the contactor
http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/en_DF11_20130411.pdf (http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/en_DF11_20130411.pdf)
DF11-12DS-2C Crimp housing
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/DF11-12DS-2C/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm1D%2fu5fPR%252bY0nIwDkB%252bwyxo%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/DF11-12DS-2C/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm1D%2fu5fPR%252bY0nIwDkB%252bwyxo%3d)
DF11-6DS-2C crimp housing for other connector
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DF11-6DS-2Cvirtualkey64550000virtualkey798-DF11-6DS-2C (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DF11-6DS-2Cvirtualkey64550000virtualkey798-DF11-6DS-2C)
Pins for 22AWG wire
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DF11-22SCAvirtualkey64550000virtualkey798-DF11-22SCA (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DF11-22SCAvirtualkey64550000virtualkey798-DF11-22SCA)
SEVCON CONTROLER Connector info
http://www.te.com/catalog/pn/en/1-776163-1?RQPN=1-776163-1 (http://www.te.com/catalog/pn/en/1-776163-1?RQPN=1-776163-1) (see AMPSEAL Automotive Plug Connector and Header Assembly (PDF, English) )
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=YqNA2qefETAUziSpjzx9mg%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=YqNA2qefETAUziSpjzx9mg%3d%3d) (look at bottom for pins)
MBB 34 pin connector
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=6xtm2vwqiW%2fm6zHGpD5hDA%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=6xtm2vwqiW%2fm6zHGpD5hDA%3d%3d)
CCU 18 pin connector
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX23A18SF1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmagRPFVYhCTJM%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX23A18SF1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmagRPFVYhCTJM%3d)
Pins for 40 / 34 / 18 connectors
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/M23S05K351/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugracjPSlc7NSiIBpqPGOljNf0cAWBcq00kv5P6dRh80w%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/M23S05K351/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugracjPSlc7NSiIBpqPGOljNf0cAWBcq00kv5P6dRh80w%3d%3d)
Can't find a public link of any kind to the 40 pin connector but it uses the same pins as the others.
2 pin female connector from Anderson adapter (I think but color is wrong)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19002S52/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaGjzJN5v55Bc%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19002S52/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaGjzJN5v55Bc%3d)
Female terminals for 2 pin connector from anderson
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19S10K451/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaCO7BmorGNN8%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19S10K451/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaCO7BmorGNN8%3d)
2 pin male connector from anderson to BMS (I think but color is wrong)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19002P52/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmao94c%2f2eNhzY%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19002P52/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmao94c%2f2eNhzY%3d)
Male terminals for 2 pin conncetor from anderson
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19P10K451/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaK%252bGcCEYs1Ts%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX19P10K451/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaK%252bGcCEYs1Ts%3d)
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Ok it seems at 93% is when the charger starts the slow down. (since the sensing circuit isn't in place yet [i have parts on order for the pins / connectors])
I was thinking I might want to back off on the voltage setting so the charger stops charging at 90% ... Do I have to worry about this? I am running the chargers directly through the controller. At what percent should I stop the quick charger and let the stock 1250 watt chargers take over so the BMS can balance the cells.
I have another thought worth testing. You can run 3 of these chargers on a single J1772. You can also run ONE of them on a 5-15. So in my mind I could run 4 of these off one chargpoint charging station if I have two cards. The J1772 would be hooked up to the three chargers and the fourth hooked up to the nema 5-15.
I would likely need to make a Y connector for the anderson connector and I would have to upgrade the diodes ... I think. Since they are only 60 amps. But that would give me a 1C charge rate! I would want to keep the "units" separate though in case I want to just use one stack.
I am going to wire the current stack up to run off two power sources and test the theory first before ordering another set of chargers. And then I need to start thinking of how to mount them on the bike. I am thinking of just throwing them in a E21 case or two on the front of the bike. I am going to have the vetter cowl up there in the future and all extra weight should be up high and forward.
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Burton,
I am charging my 2012 pack at up to 74.7V with the quick charger and the pack when it is full with the onboard charger is at 75V. That's 99.6% of the total voltage and never got any problem. The cells remain all very well balanced. I was a bit worrie about that when I began to do that but over the time I saw that all cells remain balanced very well. I think you can do the same if you make sure to use the onboard charger do a cell balancing at the end of charge job to about every 5 cycles.
btw even if you go 2s2p with 4 meanwells you will have to connect the current share pin between each paralleled charger. This will make paralleled charger to share the current 50% each.
These RSP are fully isolated between the output and input so you can connect the AC input of the charger that have output paralleled or serie, with different AC source at the input that are in our out of phase. ex you can connect one of the 3 or 4 rsp to a 220V 15A and the 2 or 3 other to a different 220-30A.
I recommend you to get some of these cheap and compact led display AC current and voltage meter available from ebay. this will give you a good idea of the power draw at the input. I know there is some that will alco calculate the watts and kWh and that are panel mount in a really compact size but these are LCD. I have oedered one already.
Doc
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I have ordered the connector and enough pins for 4 meanwells knowing I would likely end up getting two more ;) So that is 4 6 pin connectors plus crimping pins and 4 12 pin connectors and crimping pins. I am going to have to get more silicon wire to and maybe replace the two I use in tandem with my anderson connector to the controller.
I will draw up a better diagram showing the load sensing circuit, the current sensing circuit, and the connections to power sources later today along with diodes etc) Speaking of diodes I better order some 120 amp diodes or 6 more of the 60 amp ones I have and stack them like yours.
Charger stack 1:
Charger 1 in series with Charger 2 (both powered by J1772 for 20amps)
Charger 1 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 3 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 2 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 4 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger stack 2:
Charger 3 in series with Charger 4 (one powered by J1772 for 10amps and another from a 5-15 at ~16 amps)
Charger 3 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 1 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 4 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 2 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Should I put this on a toggle switch so I can shut the current sensing off when I am only using one stack? So a SPTT (triple throw) I was told by EC charging at 1C in the summer might not be possible when it gets really hot. And if I have to charge at someone's house where I only have access to two 110 20amp circuits I want to be able to only use one stack.
Thanks for advice
EDIT:
Do I need 4 awg wire for the outputs of the chargers and for the inputs to the controller? I think the anderson connector supports up to 110 amps but only gives a 6gauge connector to do it with. What is 10 awg silicon insulated wire rated for amps? If I recall your using 6 gauge with more amps then I would be pulling so I assume I need 6 gauge for my output wires and my controller input wires (which currently has 2 10awg wires)
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Well I thoink that once you will have draw your schematic I will understand easyer what connection you plan to do.
I'm a little confused with that:
Charger stack 1:
Charger 1 in series with Charger 2 (both powered by J1772 for 20amps)
Charger 1 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 3 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 2 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 4 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger stack 2:
Charger 3 in series with Charger 4 (one powered by J1772 for 10amps and another from a 5-15 at ~16 amps)
Charger 3 (outputs negative) Connects to charger 1 via 6pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Charger 4 (outputs positive) Connects to charger 2 via 6 pin connector for pins 1 3 5
Maybe you should describe Parallel first and then serie instead of serie first..
For the charging rate, Yes 1C at high ambient temp will degrade battery capacity over the time..
I'm charging at 0.75C and the battery raise to 30 degree C at ambient temp of 21 degree C wich is acceptable.
Luke said 1.25 C can be done with the 2012 battery if temp remain normal but the 2013 battery have a C rate a little bit lower wich reduce their ability to charge at higher rate. EIG cells of the 2012 and Farasis of the 2013 are different NMC. the Farasis have a bit higher energy density at cost of a little less power but with the high kWh of the pack the 2013= bike don't have any problem because high capacity solve the problem of the lower C-rate wich come to similar power to energy ratio of performance.
For 90A continuous a 6 gauge is limit but acceptable if the wire is having a silicon skin. It is best to use 4 gauge as well for 90A but I wonted to use my SB50 Anderson wich is not possible unless I remove some strand in the cable...
If you drive 90A with 4 charger in 2 parallel and 2 serie a 6 gauge at output MUST have silicon skin because temp might go over 70 degree C. And the cable MUST NOT BE ENCLOSED in a multi cable skin and must remain alone to better cool at ambient air...
As well if you don't want any problem with cable heat you can go with 4 gauge but you will have to buy the SB120... just like the older 2011- Zero was using for the battery ( remember the blue one?)
For the 30A input of my 3 charger even at 36A on the 208V AC the 10 AWG Turnigy silicon wires form hobbyking combined with the 30A Anderson PP30 are perfect! If you use 4 charger you might need to use a gauge 8 wich will require you to use the SB50 for the AC connections.. but that's only if you connect all the 4 charger to the same AC input... If you connect 3 the 10AWH and PP30 remain the best choice. they stay cold !!
Doc
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Got home and went to charge from 98 volts, 17%, and both chargers gave me a red led indicator. I had to adjust the voltage down on the Chargers to 55.5 for them to not shutdown.
I suspect the voltage was too low for them to work properly but from 99/100 it works fine :/
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I come bearing gifts! lol
Not sure if I have the sensing circuits right. I connected the shared negative units to each other and shared positives to each other.
The voltage sensing is basically what you would get with two in series. Wasn't sure if I should connect the lower stack in parallel to the termination point where they meet the other chargers or to the battery connector as currently indicated.
I included a 3 circuit switch as I assume I would have to toggle it so the meanwell doesn't get confused if only one stack of the two is on. (might not be required and would require testing to confirm either way)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15585367441_b8d9aac87b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pKe5KK)
But wait there is more!
http://youtu.be/y7q11mskelo (http://youtu.be/y7q11mskelo)
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Found more connectors including the pins I needed and updated post
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg25494#msg25494 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg25494#msg25494)
EDIT: Updated to add 2 pin connector for Anderson to BMS pins 38/40 battery
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Hi Burton, Can you make the blue conductor serially linking the power supplies to the battery same thickness as the red and black, as it has to carry the same amount of current.
Just looks odd being narrow compared to the others. :)
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Hi Burton, Can you make the blue conductor serially linking the power supplies to the battery same thickness as the red and black, as it has to carry the same amount of current.
Just looks odd being narrow compared to the others. :)
I assume you mean the last 4 charger array I posted up with the concept of running 3 from a J1772 and 1 from the 5-15 ? I don't even know if the current sensing / sharing is set up right on that drawing or not but I can change it in the future ;) It isn't a final drawing .... I think.
Also I don't know if these chargers can handle having two power sources, one 240v the other 120v, without blowing up ;) Theoretically they should be just fine I would think.
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Ask the Doc or Terry, they seems to have most experience, i am sure he tell you if he doesn't think it capable.
You sure are pushing the envelope.
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Ask the Doc or Terry, they seems to have most experience, i am sure he tell you if he doesn't think it capable.
You sure are pushing the envelope.
This method of charging is new ground for Terry. Doc though has his own stack and from what I can gather likely has enough information to be an electrical engineer if he isn't already ;)
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I've received two of the RSP supplies. Been reading through this thread and can't find an answer. What diodes would work best for this application?
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I sent you a reply in your inbox. Didn't see this when you posted it or I would have replied here first
http://youtu.be/sYivalPInPw?t=5m30s (http://youtu.be/sYivalPInPw?t=5m30s) (skip to 5.30 for the diode info)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR60A150CT/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiuCz4tq9DWl0f5vZkbnsTjUKICSxWNBtA7Qnfj9phU5Q%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR60A150CT/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiuCz4tq9DWl0f5vZkbnsTjUKICSxWNBtA7Qnfj9phU5Q%3d%3d)
You need 2 diodes if your going to be running two in series (for ~40amps out)
If you run more than say 50 amps out then you need 2 per unit so 4 total.
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Long awaited update.
Got RMA unit back from meanwell and put stack back together. In this video I am making sure both units are identical for output power and consumption.
Tuning rsp 2000 chargers for quick charging (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tOBr-FI0Ig#ws)
I still have to make a "box" for them so they don't move around much and this week I am going to go test them at some local public charging locations to make sure they work. If all goes well I will be taking my first trip > 200 miles round trip this weekend.
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Seems I am not out of the woods yet.
Today I plugged the stack in to test it for this weekends trip and I wanted to confirm the voltage was identical for both units. I should add the voltage sensing circuit is not in place and it wasn't when I was using it before either.
I could have sworn before I sent the unit off they were both reading the same voltage when charging.
Any EE's out there who can help me figure this out?
Stationary they are both set to 57.0 ... when engaging the battery at 50% the top unit is about 52 and the bottom 57 0_0 ... Does this matter at all ? I am still getting 40 amps out to the bike but it worries me the rma unit isn't working as hard as the bottom one.
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Burton, I laugh when i saw you having hard time holding the cam and trying to connect various connectors and probe voltage too.. lol.. this remind me when i make my YT vids.. lol I can ensure you that you are not the only one in this situation.
To answer you , even with both psu adjusted the way you used in teh vid to get "about " the same current on both psu, thi swill not garanty you that you get the same voltage on both.
The way these are built would require incredible accurate adjustment.. in other words not necessarely like you did with the way you had with the AC ammeter display...
But the good new is that you dont necessarily need to have both psu adjusted to the exact same voltage! And it does not mean that you get less power. If you connect both AC input to the same source then you dont have to worrie.
Both psu are protected by a constant power mode.. so none can overload! once both will have reach the Constant Voltage both will be the same power anyway. You dont have to care if one give more volt than the other.. what is important is that both give the same current witch is true because these are in serie so they dont have choice.. lol... if one have 2 volt more than the other you dont have to care... both still work with in their spec range anyway and none can overload.
But if you absolutely want to have these same voltage.. well.. you can connect the voltage sense S+ and -S for each psu and you should get the same voltage as each psu will fight against the voltage loss in your various connections to get the program ( adjusted) voltage at the location you will have connected the sense wires. I this case if your pre adjustement of voltage is let say 56V on both .. then each psu will compensate and fight to get that voltage at the sense connections on your output wires.
Btw.. the displayed current on the label of the psu is the absolute max current it can draw at the lowest voltage of the given range .. In the DERATING LOAD(%) VS INPUT VOLTAGE spec the non limited power area of the graph start at 180V .. then it is constant up to 264V . the 12.3A you see would be when the psu is at 180Vac input.
if you connect to normal 245Vac source it should draw max 10A.
btw these psu have a overcurrent control that is set to 125% of rated current witch mean when it is in constant current it can give you up to 25% more and constant of the ambiant temp is ideal depending on the AC input and equivalent resistance of the load. As well there is an optimal voltage and current where these psu give their max output. In the case of the 48V model it is optimized to 48V and give the max power and current. It's about 52.5A = 2520Watts output time the efficiency derating: 92% = about 2300W max dc. But at 115% voltage you drop to 87% of the rated current =2001W.
Good luck fort your trip!
A great tip: prepare them to be protected against rain!
Doc
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Reply posted here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68230&p=1028538#p1028538 (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68230&p=1028538#p1028538)
I will update this post if Doctorbass provides more information relative to this build.
When this is all "done" I will have to post up a new thread and reference this build with a link so people who want to build their own stack have all the information in one post :)
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Looking at "case" options for this build. I would like to be able to mount this to the bike somewhere (like on homemade crashbars since I am not willing to pay $1400 for crash bars >_<) I want something weatherproof, but vented.
Here is one case which looks promising, and I suspect anything I find will require modification to make it work like I want to.
http://littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/e-waterbox-lg.jpg (http://littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/e-waterbox-lg.jpg)
Large 13" x 9" x 5.5" $23 ea (about size of an elcon charger inside!)
Scroll to bottom on this one. They are pretty big for what I want to do but the lid concept could be used on nearly any box if done right.
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures (http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures)
I think if I found any beefy weatherproof enclosure which would give me an inch of room on both sides of the chargers I could put vents on either side of the unit similar to the l-com ones but much, much, longer. Inside the enclosure I would obviously have to isolate the front vents from the rear on the units so air would flow properly.
For those wondering the size of the chargers are 11.65" x 5 x 3.22 (with both stacked on each other)
Another option might be to buy a $99 replacement "tank" and cut it up to make a custom tank complete with vents and enough room for the charging array.
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Ok, thinking about adding another charger to my two charger array. As many of you know I currently have 2 RSP-2000-48's trimmed to 56v for 114vDC which happens to be 90% on my bike.
I am getting about 5000w from my RSP + stock chargers in ideal conditions.
The stock charger is giving me 1250w and the stack about 3800w.
With the extra RSP I think I would max out at 6800w with stock chargers, or 5550w from the RSP stack. A 1750w, actual, increase over my current setup for the cost of another RSP charger.
I have some general questions / challenges I need to figure out
1) If I added an RSP 2000 24 to my RSP 2000 48 stack in series would I just add the voltage and current trimming to the 24v charger?
The RSP - 2000 series can trim voltage from 40-115% of the rated output. This means for a 24v unit I should be able to trim from 9.6 - 27.6vDC
But 48+48 = 96 + 9.6 (trimmed 24v charger) = 105.6vDC and the charger won't charge anything less than 80% of the set voltage or in this case 84.48vDC ...
I will need to see what the lowest voltage is for 0-10% battery life and go from there. You can trim the 48's down to as much as 42 with the built in potentiometer or add an external one to trim from the 40-115 range if I recall.
2) I would likely have to add a current trim potentiometer for the RSP - 2000 - 24 unit to make sure I don't trip circuits. Where in the world am I going to put these pots in my current design so they are not easily bumped but are easily accessible? And are there any good solutions for this already which are compact and easy to mount?
3) Will my 60Amp 250V schottky diodes bridging my RSP charger outputs be enough for the stack or should I double stack them?
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR60A150CT/?qs=oDfC%252bbpznix4S9PTCizw3w%3D%3D (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR60A150CT/?qs=oDfC%252bbpznix4S9PTCizw3w%3D%3D)
If I ideal leave a 20% buffer then they should be 52.5*1.2 or 63 amps ... not a EE so will have to figure it out.
4) Voltage sensing circuit will need to be added to get better performance near the max voltages. How would this work with three chargers in series?
Will have to review some of Doctorbass's older replies to make sure I set it up right ;)
5) With more chargers in the stack the size of the container / box to shield them from weather will grow, I will have to revisit my potentials for a weatherproof breathable box for this project. When the new "tank" comes in I can see about fitting these chargers into the tank area by chopping up the old tank and making a new tank to contain the array! :) ... I think.
I will update my answers to these later if they are not addressed by other users who might provide input in my absence.
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Very interesting project and thanks for sharing!
I am wondering how you can charge at these Amps as the Quick Charge fus is only 30A. Did you replace this fuse with a higher rated one or don't you use the Anderson connector?
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I am wondering how you can charge at these Amps as the Quick Charge fus is only 30A. Did you replace this fuse with a higher rated one or don't you use the Anderson connector?
You are welcome, but the complete build isn't done yet which is why I don't have a post indicating "this is how I did it, this is what you need to order etc..."
I don't use the onboard external charging connections. Instead I made connections from my controller's + / - terminals to the Anderson connector and capped off the two on the bike.
I did charge a couple times up to 40 amps through the 30 amp fuse but it blew after a while before I realized what had happened. With the new method I just have to close the contactors (for now that involves turning on stock chargers) then wait about 10 seconds and plug in the external chargers.
I think this is covered in my charging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYivalPInPw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYivalPInPw) adaptor / update video. I used two 10AGW silicon wires for this.
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Thanks Burton.
What's the max amount of amps you can charge throught the controller connection? Is the charging covered by the BMS than, or isn't that necessary?
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Thanks Burton.
What's the max amount of amps you can charge throught the controller connection? Is the charging covered by the BMS than, or isn't that necessary?
The sevcon will limit your "regen braking" amps and you will need to open them up. That said, and I haven't tried this, you might be able to charge through the 30amp on the bike and through the controller.
My sevcon is set to 90 amps right now but Terry said his is set to 400 amps.
The MBB on the 2013 will limit the amps / volts per cell / pack as well. I haven't tested this but I believe it would open the contractor if you try to charge with too many amps.
So far the max amps I have pushed through the controller has only been about 40. After I do a survey of stations local to where I ride for two J1772 connectors I will decide to build another RSP stack or get a elcon stack to supplement it (since they are more weather resistant) and push that up to 82 amps through the controller and 10 through the stock charger.
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Thanks again.
Is it necessary to have a sevcon coding software (as discussed on this forum somewhere else)?
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Thanks again.
Is it necessary to have a sevcon coding software (as discussed on this forum somewhere else)?
Might not be necessary if you do the method I suggested. I don't have two charging stacks to make sure it would work though. That is hook one charge up through sevcon and the other to the stock charger.
If this didn't work or isn't desirable then modifying the settings would be necessary if you want to push past stock (I think 40 amps) limitation on the sevcon. If someone who can modify the programming lives close to you then it might be a better option.
If anyone in the DC area who has a 30 amp charger wanted to hook up to confirm this would work let me know. Or, we will just have to wait to see if I build another RSP stack or buy a elcon stack. Or ... someone at zero could confirm it would work ;)
It should be noted this is only an issue on the 2013 bikes. The 2012 and down don't have this problem, and the 2014+ bikes have a higher amp fuse to allow for more amps via the stock Anderson connector.
I should also mention I have no clue how this system would work on an FX as I don't know how close it resembles charging limitations on the S / DS / SR models.
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Out of curiosity, what are the charging times going to be? E.g up to 90% and 100%
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Out of curiosity, what are the charging times going to be? E.g up to 90% and 100%
With my current setup (set to 114vdc for 90% SOC top off) I can push out 40 amps from the RSP's and 10 from the stock chargers in ideal conditions.
As the RSP's get closer to 114 though they taper off on current a bit. This can be corrected with the use of another RSP 24 in series with the two 48's (also in series) and with the addition of voltage sensing circuits. This would also increase the amps from the RSP's to about 50-52 reducing charging slightly since you would be putting out close to 7k total.
I have not let the bike get down below 20% when on the road for charging but it took about an hour and a half to go to 90% last I was charging in the wild. With the additional RSP it could be reduced to about an hour ten minutes.
With two stacks of 2 RSP in series they would allow for 80amps at the RSP side and 10 from stock chargers for 90 amps. Theoretically it would reduce charging from 20 - 90% to 45minutes but would require two 30 amp 200-240v circuits to operate properly.
Two stacks of 3RSP in series would push out 100-105amps in ideal conditions 0_0 adding a stock charger and you are charging at 1.1 - 1.15 C >__<
I will likely keep it under 1C no matter what I end up doing in the long run.
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Stationary they are both set to 57.0 ... when engaging the battery at 50% the top unit is about 52 and the bottom 57 0_0 ... Does this matter at all ? I am still getting 40 amps out to the bike but it worries me the rma unit isn't working as hard as the bottom one.
Hey Burton, sorry for coming to the conversation a little late. It seems to me, if you have two chargers in series, when they're below their current limit they'll put out full voltage -- but that only happens when the battery is fully charged, right? You're not going be able to impress 114V across the battery until it's fully charged. Until then, you'll be up against the current limit of the charging stack, and it's unlikely both of the chargers have exactly the same current limit....they may both be nominally set to 40A, but one's always going to be slightly higher than the other. So you'd expect to see the one with the slightly lower current limit running in CC mode, while the one with the slightly higher current limit runs in CV mode because the other one is keeping the current slightly below its current limit.
I wouldn't worry about it. Seems expected to me.
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Zombie thread time. :)
I will likely be selling this charging stack to help buy my diginow tank charger.
Right now the output is to an Anderson connector (to connect to the bike) and the inputs are to PP45's ... It is set to 114vdc out (which is 90% SOC on my 10.5kW nominal bike)
Message me if interested :)
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Burton,
I did a quick video with some details for you here:http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI (http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI)
Enjoy!
Doc
Doc,
Sorry to drag up something from a year ago, but are these sense wires correct?
I think I am doing what you're saying, extending the current sense to after the long power cables, but I would like to be sure. Currently I just have my sense wires using the factory meanwell jumpers to the output posts next to them.
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Burton,
I did a quick video with some details for you here:http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI (http://youtu.be/0SivVUUP1UI)
Enjoy!
Doc
Doc,
Sorry to drag up something from a year ago, but are these sense wires correct?
I think I am doing what you're saying, extending the current sense to after the long power cables, but I would like to be sure. Currently I just have my sense wires using the factory meanwell jumpers to the output posts next to them.
The schematic you posted is right! ;)
Doc
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The schematic you posted is right! ;)
Doc
Thank you for confirming.
One more related question. Lets say in theory you wanted to raise the voltage of your meanwell slightly past what the voltage pot let you do.
If I were to place a multi turn potentiometer in the middle of one of the sense wires, could I turn it and creep the voltage up a little?
Keeping in mind cap voltages inside, of course... and overall wattage draw.
Do you know of anyone whos tried this? Im searching Endless-sphere right now, but its a hard thing to search for.
edit: ah HA! it actually does work, right up until you slam into the zener diode protection. Apparently the pot limit stops short of what it can do, so that the sense wires can have a couple volts to work with.. and then the diode protection kicks in when the voltage gets too high.
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In fact the sense wires can correct up to 0.5V per polarity.. I also already modified the pots of some lab power supply to get higher Volt and it jdoes work most of the time... sometime when you alre Lucky the Contsant Power will kick in and will limit the max output and avoid burning the unit.
Doc