ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Justin Andrews on April 08, 2015, 05:02:33 PM
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While I was picking up my bike from my Dealer, I spotted a 2012 Zero-S ZF9 which has received the fabled motor upgrade and was awaiting collection.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x576q90/673/Ebd8l3.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x576q90/540/Be8UPE.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x576q90/901/Vpc9Mw.jpg)
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Do we know whose bike that is? If the performance is equivalent to or better than the Motenergy I will make some enquiries.
It would be rude not to do a size 6 upgrade though and then it gets expensive!
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Sadly the owner was not about...
I know its not my old one either.
Hopefully the owner is on this forum, recognises their bike and lets us know about it.
I seem to recall that Dr Bass did a similar mod on his 2012.
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Congrat for your new zero Justin!
If it is possible form you i would love to get the dcf file fron your controller!!
I,m having hard tome to Calibrate mine with the new motor! My motor have cut out when accelerating.
It would only requier to ssbring the bike to one of your dealer and get the nike ,connected to the interface and save the file. I could send yous the procedure xif your dealer dont know how.
I would be glad to pay you to get these info
Thanks
Doc.
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I think you misunderstood me Doc, the one above is not my bike, I'm still riding my yellow 2013 Zero-S, I just happened to spot the modified 2012 while I was at my dealers.
Sorry for the confusion.
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This was at Streetbike? Not mine, but I would be very interested to find out more.
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Yep Streetbike, there are about a dozen or so of the ZF9's in the UK as far as I'm aware.
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This is my bike, which I brought with me from Canada to the UK last summer. I'm spending 3 years here in the UK for my work. The bike had been used as a demo bike and I bought it in Ottawa with 2000 miles on the odometer just before moving. Unfortunately, I have suffered from the 'glitch' ever since. Following installation of the 2 recalls last fall, Zero told me that my motor needed to be replaced. Despite only 2500 miles on the odometer, Zero charged me 900GBP plus labour for the motor, which they describe as 'more than reasonable.' I don't agree.
I picked my bike up yesterday and drove it the 98 miles home to Lincoln. I found it to be a bit louder, but otherwise behaved very well. The performance seemed to be slower, which is hard to quantify, except at top speed. In both Eco and Sport mode, I couldn't get it over 70mph on level ground (full throttle). As Zero have told me next to nothing about the motor, other than being a newly developed for the 2012 bike, based on the 2013 hybrid design, I don't know if this as expected. Seeing as the bike is rated to 88mph, I see this as a major fault or deficiency. I'll ride it a bit more today and ask Streetbike to inquire with Zero.
I have reported the problems with the motor as a safety recall to VOSA. No response from them yet. Seeing as their first two recalls didn't resolve this safety defect, I don't see why a 3rd recall shouldn't be issued for the motor. I would also like to get an article in Green Car Reports or a motorcycle magazine about Zero's lack of support of their problematic old bikes, but even with the good work that some people have done on this forum, I think it would be hard to provide accurate statistics on what percentage of the 2012s have the glitch and require a motor replacement.
Wesley
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Definitely a case for warranty 2 years when purchased, and at least good will from Zero seeing they failed to fix recalls. How long were you without the bike when they did recalls?
"2012 S/DS & XU WARRANTY INFORMATION
ZERO MOTORCYCLES WARRANTIES
Zero Motorcycles Inc. expressly warrants all 2012 Zero manufactured S, DS and XU models from defects in material and workmanship to the original owner under normal operating conditions and according to proper use for 2 years (unlimited miles) from the “In Service Date†which is the date your Zero Motorcycle dealer performed a pre-delivery inspection on the Zero, (P.D.I).date of delivery. These warranties are transferrable subject to a $50 processing fee and a new registration card to subsequent owners.
STANDARD WARRANTY:
The standard warranty covers parts, standard shipping and labor for all major components, defined herein as including the motor, motor controller, power pack, frame, swing arm, fork, rear shock, brake assemblies, wheels, and electrical sub-assemblies. This warranty covers Zero manufactured accessories installed at the time of purchase."
regarding motor speed It may be because the motor is expecting 100V but only getting 65V, they should have upgraded your batteries too.
The "powertrains-sales-sheets.pdf"
-for the 2012 says Nominal 65.7V and Maximum 74.7V
-for the 2013 says Nominal 102.2V and Maximum 116.2V
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Firepower, your assuming its a straight ZF Motor from the 2013-2015 line, and not one that's been rewound for 65V however.
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IIRC the 2012 motor is more efficient at low speeds, with the new 75-X being designed for higher speed efficiency. Maybe that explains the sluggish performance? Although not the lack of top speed.
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Yes, Zero is doing a quick fix, doubt they invest in another motor model. They have not confirmed or denied what this motor is. "As Zero have told me next to nothing about the motor"
They should release the specs, especially if your paying 900GBP for it. You want it to be equal or better then motor it replaces.
speed ratio difference 1.26
voltage ratio difference 1.55
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Firepower, your assuming its a straight ZF Motor from the 2013-2015 line, and not one that's been rewound for 65V however.
If the 75 motor wasn't rewound - ie they pulled a stock 75-7 or more likely 75-5 off the shelf - I would expect it to have significantly more torque at low RPM but a lower top speed. Possibly could be compensated for by installing a larger front sprocket.
If it was rewound for similar torque as the 2012 ME motor, then I would expect it to have a similar or slightly higher top speed, a higher sustained top speed and better range at highway speeds.
75-5 stock motor has 70 ft-lb. Stock 2012 ME motor has 40 ft-lb.
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The bike isn't under warranty because for demo bikes, the warranty is deemed to start on delivery of the bike to the dealer, which was around May 2012.
If when I get any more info on the motor specs or the performance, I'll pass it along.
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And just checking the battery case was waterproofed when the motor was replaced....
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just picked up my 2012 with new motor. It runs ok, actually hauls ass, but it makes an ungodly horrible high pitch whine accelerating from about 5 mph up to 20, and at 17 mph it sounds like a falling bomb. Deceleration sucks, it's not smooth like the old motor, it stutters and surges like i'm pumping the brakes, kinda freaky. I'll be checking range his week to see if it changed.
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probably will need a few firmware updates to iron out the bugs. Your still testing a prototype.
Just keep letting zero / dealers know your issues with new motor.
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Woke - I'm disappointed that you were unable to get a free replacement for a motor with so few miles on the clock. I had hoped the replacement of my battery marked a new determination to tackle these issues more amicably.
Please keep us in touch with your experience of the new motor and any firmware upgrades etc.
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Flexydude: great to hear that you finally got it back. Were you able to get it up to a good speed? I too noted the loud whine from the motor at lower speeds, but didn't have any problems with the regen.
I was told that a software update was done with the new motor. We'll see if it needs bug fixes.
Mike: thanks, they did seal the battery pack for me.
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just picked up my 2012 ... Deceleration sucks, it's not smooth like the old motor, it stutters and surges like i'm pumping the brakes, kinda freaky. I'll be checking range his week to see if it changed.
The regen braking will often surge like that when the bike is fully charged. Once the battery is run down to the point where regen ceases to make it "full", that should stop!
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I didn't think about that, the roads around here are so crappy I don''t notice it anymore anyway.
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I have received some feedback on the new motor on my 2012 S, which is said to be based on the 2014 75-7 design:
Part #: 30-08006
Peak torque: 50 ft-lbs
Peak power: 25kw (33hp) @3600 rpm
Range: Unchanged
It is still working fine for me, but I haven't seen the performance increase cited above. I still haven't got it over 72mph, unlike the original motor, which didn't have any problem getting over 80 and 85mph. Neither Zero nor my dealer have offered any explanations.
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Are you seeing a hard cutoff at 72 mph, or does the bike acceleration simply slow gradually as you approach 72 mph?
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I have asked my self the same question and I would say it is somewhere between the two. Past 60 mph, it seems to still be accelerating well, but approaching 67 and 68 mph, it appears to taper off quite quickly. The s/w was updated along with the motor, so it could be limited somehow, either intentionally or unintentionally.
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OK guys here is fresh news from my experience with the 2013 75-7 motor on my 2012 S:
All the above reported difference with the upgrade to teh 2013 motor are true:
-higher pitch noise: true, it sound like the 2013 and i dont care about that. I have found it better help pedestrian to know your presence witch help in teh traffic in city.
- Higher Torque: True: the motor make me feel about 1.5 to 2 times more torque
- more restriction when decelerating because the sproket ratio is higher than on the 2013 bike. So the motor spin faster for the same speed.
- slower: yes it is slower and i can't reach more than 130km/h with it. That motor is lower "kv" ( rpm per volt) so the 2012 battery of 65V just can't make it to spin as fast as on teh 2013 that is using 102V battery. So the controller take the help of the Field weakening ( timing advance) to "modify" the kv of the motor to make it continu increasing speed when the bemf is equal to the battery voltage. this make the motor to spin faster than it shold but at a cost of inneficency above 100km/h on the stock 28T. Mine overheat above 100kmh during warm temperature and overheat above 110kmh in cold weather.
The motor spin faster for the same bike speed beause on teh 2012 the rear pulley/sproket is bigger.
one way to solve the speed problem might to replace the stock 28T for a 30T witch i consider doing to get about 6% higher speed witch would give me just enough speed for cruising on the highway ( 106 to 116kmh) without overheat problem... or i could just replace the rear pulley/sproket for the smaller one but i wold need to buy it and pay for a new sorter Gate belt.. wictch wold cost about 200$ total.
Seriously that 75-7 motor is a way best motor than the Me0913 and the upgrade you had on the 2012 for 900GBP is fair. That 75-7 motor cost 1200$.
Even if you want a original ME0913 motor that have a glitch problem solved i have one. it's the one that i got back from Zero repair and it worked very well for the last 5000km i did with it, no more glitch.. even in the rain! I would be glad to exchange it to your 75-7 if you witch too.. I preffer the 75-7 motor.
Doc