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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Skull_Kid on December 11, 2015, 06:24:51 AM
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I'm just curious if anyone has ridden both the Zero FX and the KTM 500 EXC (or any similar lightweight dual sport) and what you liked/disliked about both. I'm still contemplating an FX purchase but I'm curious to see how it compares.
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It's not a KTM500, but I do have an RM250 (two stroke off-road bike) and I have an FX arriving tomorrow. I'll be able to give a more detailed comparison in a few days, but here are my thoughts from the test ride (on road)...
- The FX pulls harder where 3rd/4th gear would be on an ICE bike. For example, the FX easily lifts the front wheel from 25-55mph. I think the feeling of constant acceleration through this range is what sold me on getting the FX - it just feels awesome. Watch some of the FX reviews on YouTube and you'll notice the reviewers almost get giddy as they pass through this power range!
- The "instant" and constant torque that electric bikes offer is real, but it didn't seem to "hit" the same way an ICE bike can when you pop the clutch or blip the throttle with the RPM's up. For example, I'm not sure how well an FX will be able to hop the front wheel over a puddle or log.
- The FX is MUCH smoother and quieter.
- The FX will require MUCH less routine maintenance.
- The FX will have 25-50% less range, and "fill-ups" are not instant.
- The FX will probably be less durable over the long term if it will be seeing much off-road abuse. For example, the frame is relatively thin, pressure washing may cause big issues, electronics/overheating issues are not yet uncommon, etc. KTM has just had many more years to refine and work the bugs out of their designs...
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Yeah that KTM 500 EXC was one of the bikes I was looking at along with a Triumph Tiger and the Suzuki DR650 I ended up going with the Zero DS for the range but I think the FX would blow mine away for pure fun factor. Here is a little link of a road speed test (not a race) between a FX and a KLR 650. I think the KTM would do much better than the KLR but gives you some idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEYew8xnRpA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEYew8xnRpA)
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Thanks for the information! One of the main purposes of the Zero FX (or KTM) would be off-road use. I'm not talking motocross-style jumping and big drops and such. It'd be more exploration and travelling in the woods on trails. Is the frame not sturdy enough for major off-roading?
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I have ridden the FX and I owned a KTM 250 two stroke- which as pointed out by other member- is not an apple to apple comparison…however I did rode a 450 KTM also ;)
Difficult call.
If you really want a 100% dirt bike (when I say 100%, I mean you are/will be a serious/demanding rider and need a performance machine to go with your friends), I would not go for the FX…however if you want a very light, yet powerful funny bike, then the FX is what you want.
Specifics?
KTM wins in chassis, brakes, tires, wheels, suspensions, handling, autonomy, overall build quality, residual value
FX wins in weight, torque band, instant power, economy, low-maintenance, low-noise, "green"
and, last, but not least, you will see a lot of KTM's, but very little FX ;)
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I rode a KTM 690 Enduro R and one of the big issues I had was the vibration, especially when going over 50MPH. How is the FX in terms of vibration and overall wheel balance. Is it smooth as butter and not bouncy when going that speed (or any speed)?
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The 690 model is a different animal (I have also rode one, but the road Duke model). As a British would say "is not my cup of tea"
I personally would not follow that route…in my opinion the 450 -or 400- are the funniest in the 4 stroke range. The 690 has a very big cylinder and, well, you know what that means…not very funny, heavier, narrower power curve, etc…(KTM has worked a lot in reducing vibrations and other staff, but you cannot run against physics)
The FX does not vibrate at all, well, I mean in comparing with the internal combustion models we just spoke about.
At 50mph you would not feel any vibration.
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Zero has a video on You Tube showing guys going over the Rubicon trail on FX's and there are some race videos and Rampart range video that the 13 year old me would have given anything to do. Over all though the KTM would be a stronger bike if your going really rough but the lack of noise with the FX is something special all by itself. Test ride one before you do anything because they aren't cheap but I think you'll enjoy it.
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Hello
I had a WR200 and a duke 690, sold both one week after getting the FX '15
Couldn't stand anymore the noise, vibration and smell associated to a lack of instant torque (yes even with the Duke....)
The FX is so fun and easy thanks to this smooth and yet very strong torque.
Stop at the bottom of a 2 floor stairway, touching the first stair with your front wheel, turn the throttle and there you climb it all the way up effortlessly...
I enjoy riding it on tracks where you are welcome by trekkers and mountain bikers. Couldn't go there anymore with the 200WR
My video
https://youtu.be/3mxyN3hSj9A
Now the bad and very frustrating part, this fun lasts only 20km then the power decreases. All over I can do 45km but only the 20 first have full torque.
Riding very smoothly you can achieve 80km but what for? No fun doing this.
So the point is that you can forget racing with friends, you'll win easily the first 3-4 rounds and then they catch up when you overheat and draw your battery. Very frustrating. I hope the 2016 is better on overheating
But still love it for what it gives me the first 20km
A+ Marcel
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Just out of curiosity, do you have the 2.8 or 5.7 model?
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I have the 5.7, I tried with only one power pack so like the 2.8, it becomes very lightweight which is nice, but power is not enough, no more wheeling, not enough fun
A+ Marcel
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I just purchased a demo 2015 FX. I have been riding motocross bikes for over 20 yrs. The biggest issue I have is the limited range and power reduction when the motor gets hot but the fun factor and being very quite make it a blast to ride. Especially in areas where noise is an issue. Being able to ride it fast around you're home is a huge plus. The KTM 500 is a better overall dirt bike, but the FX is better on the street plus you won't piss off the neighbors.
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Also out of curiosity, how do you lot think that a FX will fare on the Red Bull knock-out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN3Voa7CnC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN3Voa7CnC0)
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Received my 2015 FX 5.7 over the weekend, equipped with knobbies, and did a quick test ride on some wooded hills.
Updated/additional thoughts based on my first ride:
- The FX will climb hills just as well as the KTM, and maybe even better. There is plenty of power, and it's surprisingly easy to control when you don't have to worry about gears and RPM's. The FX had no problems climbing the hills in my woods, which are difficult to walk up and almost impossible to walk up when slick (see pic attached).
- The FX is easier to wash than I expected, but I would not be comfortable taking it out an a super-muddy day. The front wheel flings a lot of mud into the heat sink on the lower-front of the bike and the chain can fling mud into the motor area where it gets trapped by the skid plate. Removing a lot of mud from these areas would be tough without high pressure water, which would be no problem for the KTM but is not recommended for the FX.
- I haven't experienced any FX heat issues yet, but based on replies from mguw and webster, it probably a matter of time. I have sat along the trail waiting for 4-stroke KTM's to stop boiling over too, but it's rare.
- The FX is top heavy. I let it lean a little in my garage when looking at something down low and it dropped before I could stop it. I expected to have more control when holding one grip from the side, as I would have with a gas bike. Time will tell how this affects my riding.
- The easy startup makes the FX very tempting to ride often (at home). Knowing that you can turn the key and go, anytime and without disturbing anyone, makes it easy to justify hopping on. Example - my wife wanted me to deliver a Christmas card to a mailbox down the street yesterday (in a suburban neighborhood) = perfect opportunity to hop on the FX for a few minutes!
- My guess is that I'll ride the FX more often, but will need to keep my RM250 also for serious off-road trips. I love the FX's fun factor and lack of noise, but if I had to choose just one to keep, the gas bikes are more practical for serious off-roading.
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The 690 model is a different animal (I have also rode one, but the road Duke model). As a British would say "is not my cup of tea"
I personally would not follow that route…in my opinion the 450 -or 400- are the funniest in the 4 stroke range. The 690 has a very big cylinder and, well, you know what that means…not very funny, heavier, narrower power curve, etc…(KTM has worked a lot in reducing vibrations and other staff, but you cannot run against physics)
The FX does not vibrate at all, well, I mean in comparing with the internal combustion models we just spoke about.
At 50mph you would not feel any vibration.
Sorry for OT but just FYI the enduro runs a much more aggressive cam and lower gearing than the duke and weighs quite a lot less. It's a different animal to the Duke. I had an SMC with a lot of weight saving and a fettled motor. It was brutal!
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I definitely like what I'm hearing about the Zero FX. Is the power decrease that noticeable when you're battery's SOC goes below 50%? I currently drive a DRZ400SM, does it become slower than that? Can you not do wheelies anymore?
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Hollister hare scramble's open class has been won by Trevor Not positive but I believe more than once
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I definitely like what I'm hearing about the Zero FX. Is the power decrease that noticeable when you're battery's SOC goes below 50%? I currently drive a DRZ400SM, does it become slower than that? Can you not do wheelies anymore?
Yes it gets definitely slower below 50%, you still get nice torque at low speeds but top speed and top acceleration decreases. Wheelings at 70-80 km/h are not possible anymore
A+ Marcel
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Well it is not a step at 50% it is more like a continuous drop of power from 100 to 0, and it gets noticeable at 50% where top speed becomes 125km/h instead of 137 and at 10% top speed will be 90ish and 5% 70ish
Well the controller limits the current draw not to damage the battery, this limitation is also temperature related
A+ Marcel
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It's not a KTM500, but I do have an RM250 (two stroke off-road bike) and I have an FX arriving tomorrow. I'll be able to give a more detailed comparison in a few days, but here are my thoughts from the test ride (on road)...
- The FX pulls harder where 3rd/4th gear would be on an ICE bike. For example, the FX easily lifts the front wheel from 25-55mph. I think the feeling of constant acceleration through this range is what sold me on getting the FX - it just feels awesome. Watch some of the FX reviews on YouTube and you'll notice the reviewers almost get giddy as they pass through this power range!
- The "instant" and constant torque that electric bikes offer is real, but it didn't seem to "hit" the same way an ICE bike can when you pop the clutch or blip the throttle with the RPM's up. For example, I'm not sure how well an FX will be able to hop the front wheel over a puddle or log.
- The FX is MUCH smoother and quieter.
- The FX will require MUCH less routine maintenance.
- The FX will have 25-50% less range, and "fill-ups" are not instant.
- The FX will probably be less durable over the long term if it will be seeing much off-road abuse. For example, the frame is relatively thin, pressure washing may cause big issues, electronics/overheating issues are not yet uncommon, etc. KTM has just had many more years to refine and work the bugs out of their designs...
about point 3 - if you have extra packs you can "fill up" in a minute or so.
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I will be interested to see how the 6.6 goes with respect to power loss, will it be around 40% soc when you notice the power drop instead of 50%? Or will the new packs be able to deliver more power thus not dropping off power at all?
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6.6= beast mode I'm jealous!
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I will be able to compare test a 6.6 this Sunday. A friend just bought one, I'll tell you.
I noticed also more power at 100% when just disconnected from the plug then at 100% if disconnected one or two days ago
A+ Marcel
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Your comment is quite interesting…
I have also noticed the same…right after disconnecting at 100% charge it looks like the bike has a little more capacity than when kept for a few days pugged :o
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Could this be due to the battery not allowing regen when full? The bike can feel faster because it is coasting rather than slowing on a shut throttle. Just a guess.
Skull kid; the DRZ felt very flat to me so I'm certain that the FX will be an animal in comparison. Even the old 2012 Zero X I borrowed for a month felt zippier than the DRZ.
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The wheelings are not because of less regen ;-)
A+ Marcel
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I'm very curious to hear about the 6.5 and how it compares. I'm guessing 2015 models will be discounted and with the terrible Canadian dollar, there would probably be a considerable gap in price. The FX went up 1800$ in 2016 so probably 2500$+ difference OTD.
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Hello
Ok I couldn't compare.
We went out to the motocross track and both broke our belt before we could exchange motorcycles... They broke on hard landings...
Chain kits are ordered...
Envoyé de mon SGP521 en utilisant Tapatalk
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I have a '15 FX and a 2010 KTM530exc. The KTM is much better for serious off-road riding. KTM just have much more experience in building bikes tough enough to handle off-road riding. KTM's Freeride E would be great for off-road, but it only has half the battery of the FX, so it'd only be useful for short rides or racing. I doubt the FX chassis would last long for serious off-road riding; it's fine on-road, but just doesn't compare to the KTM for off-road. For me, my FX is just a casual, fun bike that I can ride almost anywhere, because it's quiet(apart from the front brake; not so stealthy!). A couple of things I don't like on the FX is the howling(and small) front disc brake, and the low hanging kickstand(it gets snagged easily), which I remove if I do any single trail(the sensor harness needs to be modified with a switch, so that ABS can still be turned off). I also wish that ABS could be turned off or even better, removed, permanently!
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Interesting thread that I've been checking back in on quite a bit since the first post since I'm in the same boat. One issue with online reviews of anything powersports is of course the subjectivity. Specifically, in terms of the FX, I see that people are saying it can't handle "serious" off-road riding. Could you guys define that by chance? I'm seriously considering an FXS with a set of FX wheels and a chain kit for dual sport exploring, commuting, true supermoto as well as pavement only kart course track days. The dual sport riding I do is on trails in New Jersey/Pennsylvania which ranges from mud, dirt, sand, rocks to any mix in between. There is one section of one trail we ride that has about 5 minutes of whoops which is tiring but fun. There are a few tight spots that are a little tricky to navigate, but otherwise it's mostly single and double track type of trails. Is that too much to ask of the Zero FX(S)? Would I be better off dealing with the constant maintenance of the EXC in favor of the performance?
I really like a lot about the Zero such as the lack of a clutch/shifter which makes for a purer riding experience, the quietness, the lack of required consistent maintenance and the fact that it's made in the USA. Plus, after the initial purchase, there is little time or money required to upkeep the bike for the most part.
The cons that have me on the fence of 500 EXC vs Zero FX(S) are the lack of ability to "refuel" quickly without dropping $3k on an extra set of batteries, having to buy an offboard charger to get reasonable recharge times and one thing that is a slight issue for me is the range. However, having said that, the range surely seems to be a ton better with the 2016s thanks to the 6.5 but it seems like nobody who has one has posted up their feelings on it. Everything I read is the 5.7 but if I go with a Zero, it's going to be the 6.5. I realize it's still pretty new but I've been stuck overseas researching and following this bike for six months so I find myself trying hard to find new info/reviews/youtube videos daily without much luck.
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I see that people are saying it can't handle "serious" off-road riding. Could you guys define that by chance?
Good question... I was in a similar position a few months ago, researching a lot until I finally pulled the trigger on a '15 FX.
Here are three videos that I think capture a good range of conditions:
I would have no concerns riding the FX in these conditions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7XU59GM_o
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7XU59GM_o)
The FX should be plenty capable in these conditions too, but suspension may not be as good as a KTM. Electric motor will probably make the FX easier to control on the rocks/hills though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrBHy8qxHco
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrBHy8qxHco)
I often ride my RM250 in these "serious off-road" conditions, but I'm not yet convinced that I would want to subject the FX to them on a regular basis. It is probably capable, but durability is TBD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke-3UuQycJM
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke-3UuQycJM)
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Oh yea, I've watched those and every other Zero FX video I can find on youtube. I pretty much check for new ones and demo ride videos every two to three days. That Rampart Range video looks like so much freaking fun.
What about chargers? Do you need 4 of those Quiq chargers to get the 1.2-1.7 charge time? Is the Elcon from Hollywood Electrics better? Or is there a better alternative? Whichever bike I go for (most likely the FXS over the EXC) I really want to do supermoto track days so I'd need to get the best charging setup I could. I've got a Honda EU2000i generator so I'm pretty sure it can keep up with the accessory and on board chargers.
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Oh yea, I've watched those and every other Zero FX video I can find on youtube. I pretty much check for new ones and demo ride videos every two to three days. That Rampart Range video looks like so much freaking fun.
What about chargers? Do you need 4 of those Quiq chargers to get the 1.2-1.7 charge time? Is the Elcon from Hollywood Electrics better? Or is there a better alternative? Whichever bike I go for (most likely the FXS over the EXC) I really want to do supermoto track days so I'd need to get the best charging setup I could. I've got a Honda EU2000i generator so I'm pretty sure it can keep up with the accessory and on board chargers.
The best charging solution I am aware of right now is the DigiNow Super Charger. They are delivering the first production batch soon and aren't taking new orders until the initial production run has been delivered. They should be available for order again by spring time. The DigiNow Super Charger should be able to provide 10kW which would charge a ZF6.5 FXS in about 40 minutes if your generator can provide over 40 amps at 240 volts.
Hypothetically, if you could charge a zero in UNDER 1 hour (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5040.0)
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Thanks for the link, I've been trying to find some instructions on either building diy chargers on the forum or the best manufactured options but haven't found the right search combination yet. I'm leaning towards the manufactured because while I have some good basic knowledge of circuitry and batteries, I'm by no means even close to the level a lot of you guys are at. I skimmed this thread a while back but I need to go back through again but need to try to read through it for understanding some more.
And nope, my generator definitely can not handle that ;D I'd probably have to pick up a cheaper option that's noisy as hell and huge it sounds like but again, I'm quite ignorant of a lot of this stuff so I'll continue trying fix that through scouring this and other EV forums.
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Hopefully it's ok I revive my old topic. I bought a new KTM 500 EXC two years ago and I've put over 4000km on it. I love the bike but I still have that envy for the FX. I don't enjoy the EXC above 80km/h so I'm curious how two years on, if any more of you have had a chance to try both the EXC and FX and what your thoughts are. Off-road, the EXC is extremely capable but I'm not the jumping type so I'm guessing the FX would be plenty capable. I love the hill climbs, cresting over big bumps with massive wheelies, rooster tails and just wandering the trails.
How reliable have your newer FX's have been, especially in off-roading?
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I bought a 500 EXC in early 2016, sold it by the end of the summer and bought a FXS in December of 2016. I've had it at the very same track, ridden a bunch of local dirt roads/trails and commuted with it. For me, the FXS is a much better fit. While the EXC is without a doubt, far more capable performance/spec sheet wise I just have so much more fun on my Zero. No clutch off road and a huge drop in maintenance were some of the hugest improvements for me. I have a lot more fun at the track on my Zero too even though it's a bit heavier and not quite as much of a beastly bike. I don't hit anything close to big air either so it's plenty fine. I'm glad I went EXC first because it was an easy bike to sell (way easier than the FXS would have been) and now I know how it performs and what living with it is like. Those oil changes are freaking weird and it was way too much bike for kart track supermoto for me. I put a chain kit on it within the first few hundred miles and haven't looked back.
Just my two cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjWdMXlLy0&t=52s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjWdMXlLy0&t=52s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9yuDThwD8U&t=26s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9yuDThwD8U&t=26s)