ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Tech Help => Topic started by: NEW2elec on December 26, 2015, 10:57:04 PM
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It started out very inconsistent and pretty rare, click pop, maybe on a leaning turn or under higher power from a stop or up hill from a stop. Now it is much more common but I can't get it to happen consistently where I could say it's for sure the swing arm or something else. I jacked it up and could hear a little creaking and popping from the frame but not nearly as loud as when I'm riding. I turned the bike on and spun up the rear wheel, it looks pretty true. It sounds like its coming from the back right side mostly at least to my helmeted ears. Its a 2013 DS with about 11k miles on it if that helps any. I heard people having trouble with the wheel bearings but from a lifted spin I'm not really hearing it. I saw the loose motor key clicking video and that isn't it. Sounds more of a thud most of the time. Rear axle seems tight or at least not loose.
Thanks if anybody has any ideas.
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It's not the belt slipping and jumping teeth(even though that'd be the left side)?
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If this was a conventional bike, I would check the shock mounts and bushings.
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It stopped raining today so I rode a few miles. I looked at the rear shock it didn't seem loose and bouncing up and down on the bike doesn't make the sound. I also hooked my knees in and really rocked it left and right in a sway but couldn't repeat the sound. I'm noticing it getting worse on a right lean turn and also getting a bit of grinding sound so kind of leaning toward wheel bearing or swing arm bearing. Only other thing I see is a little gap on all the right side nuts that mount the motor to the frame the outside bolts all line up to their torque markings maybe I just didn't notice the gap before.
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I was going to mention this earlier, but didn't think it was worth mentioning. The rear brake caliper mount has some free-play where it meets the swingarm guide(it holds the caliper in position, and allows fore and aft adjustment of the back wheel), some bikes more than others, and can move forward under braking, then move back again under acceleration if the pads haven't fully released from the disc yet. It can cause a clunking sound on some bikes if it there is enough free-play and it moves quick enough. The pads can also make some noise if they move around a bit.
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Thanks Ben I had noticed a bit of play in the brake caliper maybe a few mm but it did make a slight click on the swing arm. I got dad's good torque wrench to see if the axle nut had backed out. Does anyone know what size that nut is? I don't have large metric sockets if that is what it takes I'd have to pick one up. Ben it has only started making the noise about 2 weeks ago and just rode it for about 2 miles tonight and it's getting pretty bad and much more often. Is there a way to stop it if it is just the brake caliper?
Thanks again for the help guys.
Happy New Year.
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Yeah, you mention the caliper, that's probably more likely what it is, the caliper moving on the mount, because it's floating on two pins. I don't know if there's much you could do about that, other than pack some grease in there, or replace the pins if they're worn. If the pin holding the pads is worn, that can cause the pads to stick, too. The nut on my FX is 27mm, I don't know if your '13 DS would be the same.
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Well it got a good bit worse so got dad out and let him see what he thought, 50ish years mechanic plus extra points for being dad, came to the opinion it is the wheel bearings. The wheel had a little hop in it at higher speeds jacked up, and had a bit of lateral movement on the axle so then I started looking for best way to replace. Here is where things need to get better.
I found here on the forum the first owner of my bike had the wheel bears die from the start.
Zero replaced everything for him and all was great and to be sure for over 3k miles I've had no problems with it.
I have looked for bearing sizes and types and part numbers and just a bit of inconsistencies with number of bearings and part numbers
So I called Zero
Now here is my issue Zero wants to put a dealer buffer in between them and the customer.
Battery issues or BMS of other tech problems I can see. They don't want some dipwad (me) getting shocked.
This wasn't that kind of issue this was "Hi how many bearings are in this wheel and what is the part number"
Call your dealer
I don't need my dealer (which I never really had one I bought private) I need the part number :)
Call your dealer
Now I had some items that I had priced from Zero and lets just say they were high. So I'm out of warranty and on my on and don't want to pay too much for something I can get cheaper. Sorry if that hurts Zeros pockets a bit but theirs are bigger than mine.
I talked to my closest dealer and got sort of an "um bring it in"
I talked to next closest and he just didn't really know the bike that well, not his fault he sounded pretty young
I called Hollywood Electrics which is where the bike was "born" and I thought I'd get a shop tech and got Harlan instead, just a real nice guy, gave me some idea of what the job should run which was livable. I wish I could ship it out there and have them do it but the shipping would be twice the repair.
I'll take it in maybe tomorrow and drop it off and hope for the best I have a feeling I won't be riding before late February but we'll see.
Thank you to Ben and MrDude for your help with this and who knows it may still be something else as well but I'm getting new bearing at least.
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Thanks for the update, I hope you get it sorted out for a decent price.
It's a bummer that you can't get a part number for the bearings, other big brands have part numbers, and even wiring diagrams available online, or in workshop manuals, so we can just order what we want from any seller/dealer.
I wonder if a "wheel builder" would be able to replace the bearings for you, it sounds like they wouldn't be allowed to get a part number from Zero either, but maybe they could fit a better bearing.
A lot of the "big brand" bikes' rear wheels actually have two bearings on the "drive" side(one on the other) to cope with the power forces/load. So, I wonder how many bearings your rear wheel has.
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The bearings on my 2013 s and the ds 2014 wheels, have both been the same, NTN 6904 C4
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Thanks Ndm I guess it worked out for the best the dealer called said the wheel was ready. They said they had to cut one of the races to get it out of the wheel so it would have been more hassle than I would have wanted. On the bright side cost about $100 so not too much and got it finished much faster than I thought. When I go pick it up tomorrow I'm going to test ride a 2016 SR see how far they have come in three short years.
Again, thanks for the help guys.
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Good to hear!
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Ok got my wheel back and they said the bearings were just about to completely fail and it was very lucky I stopped riding when I did. There were just two 6904 2rs bearings in the rear wheel only $18 for the bearings $80 for the labor so I think I'll swap them out about every 5000 miles or so myself and be done with it. On a side note I am very happy with my jack, it fits and works great with the Zero. I was able to raise it up nice and high put a locking rod through the lift arm and release the pressure and strap it down very well it could have stayed up there for months no issues. Here is a link if anyone is interested.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-4000-lb-Triple-Lift-Floor-Jack-620422/203116734 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-4000-lb-Triple-Lift-Floor-Jack-620422/203116734)
Now I did get to test ride the 2016 SR and well WOW! Much better bike than my 2013. The dealer is in a heavy traffic area and I don't know my way around so I stayed nice and slow enjoying the much smoother ride, better brakes, throttle response, better mirrors and seat. I only barely opened it up in eco mode once as I was making a turn around in a car lot to go back to the dealer a Harley came by so I gave him the two finger nod and of course got nothing back. So I did have to blow by him like he was standing still which makes up for the rest of it.
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Oh, now I realize I should have noticed the "2013 DS" bit. Yes, that's when my bearings went, too. Glad you figured it out timely!
The floor jack looks a bit like overkill, but certainly good.
Also, I too am getting an itchy trigger finger for a 2016 DSR.
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I would do the front as well, mine went before the rear did and I changed both sets at the same time, now just get a second set from the dealer and do them when you have time, it's pretty easy and if you run into problems just take it to the dealer and have him get it out
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Ahhhh the blissful sound of silence. That was my first time putting a bike wheel back on and like so many other things it sure was easier taking it off :) One other thing I noticed, my range had gotten down to about 7 miles a bar with the bad bearings instead of the 10ish with my slower riding around the house. I had been chalking it up to colder weather but I'll check the bearings pretty quick next time I get a drop in range. Thanks for all your help and advise guys maybe it will help someone else as well. Forums are great!
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Has anybody gone ceramic with their wheel bearings? My bike is in the shop with failed rears, at 24,000 miles, and I'm thinking I'd just as soon only pay them once to replace the bearings. But I'm an EE, not an ME, so I don't really know bearings very well. Is ceramic a straight upgrade over steel? I would think ceramic might be less like to deflect, but might fracture under a heavy impact. Is that not a problem for ceramic bearings? Also, is the "hybrid" bearing (ceramic balls, steel races) good enough, or do I want the full ceramic ones? At Amazon (not that I'm going to buy there, but just for a price comparison), the steel ones are $8 each, the hybrid ones go for $47 each, and the full ceramic is over $100 each.
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Has anybody gone ceramic with their wheel bearings? My bike is in the shop with failed rears, at 24,000 miles, and I'm thinking I'd just as soon only pay them once to replace the bearings. But I'm an EE, not an ME, so I don't really know bearings very well. Is ceramic a straight upgrade over steel? I would think ceramic might be less like to deflect, but might fracture under a heavy impact. Is that not a problem for ceramic bearings? Also, is the "hybrid" bearing (ceramic balls, steel races) good enough, or do I want the full ceramic ones? At Amazon (not that I'm going to buy there, but just for a price comparison), the steel ones are $8 each, the hybrid ones go for $47 each, and the full ceramic is over $100 each.
Everything I've read about ceramic bearings says they are incredible. They supposedly last much longer and allow the wheel to spin with a considerable amount of less friction. I've already made up my mind, ceramic is the only way to go. Of course, my current bearings are fine at 5,000 miles, but if and when they go, I won't even think twice.
What I'm curious about is how much extra range would you get?
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After speaking with two of the MEs here at work, I decided to go with a full ceramic bearing (not just ceramic balls with metal races). They're close to $100 a pop (times four since I also decided to replace the front ones), but I've been convinced they will wear much longer and I probably won't have to replace them again.
I'm skeptical about "reduced friction" claims. Since they don't corrode, and are considerably harder than steel, some of the ceramic bearings are actually run dry, without any grease or even oil. That would make them spin longer under a no-load case, since wheel bearing grease is pretty viscous, but I don't think it represents much friction reduction in the real-world, loaded case. Spinning a bicycle tire or skateboard wheel and watching it go forever doesn't really speak much to its performance on a motorcycle wheel, I don't think.
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After speaking with two of the MEs here at work, I decided to go with a full ceramic bearing (not just ceramic balls with metal races). They're close to $100 a pop (times four since I also decided to replace the front ones), but I've been convinced they will wear much longer and I probably won't have to replace them again.
I'm skeptical about "reduced friction" claims. Since they don't corrode, and are considerably harder than steel, some of the ceramic bearings are actually run dry, without any grease or even oil. That would make them spin longer under a no-load case, since wheel bearing grease is pretty viscous, but I don't think it represents much friction reduction in the real-world, loaded case. Spinning a bicycle tire or skateboard wheel and watching it go forever doesn't really speak much to its performance on a motorcycle wheel, I don't think.
They do have less friction. You can noticeably coast longer with them on both motorcycles and bicycles.
I cant skateboard very well myself, but hanging around those that do (and with stupid money) they go faster downhill with ceramic bearings.
I have no doubt they actually work... but I cant justify their cost on a conventional bike.
Personally I tend to get around 45,000 miles out of wheel bearings on sportbikes. My CBR, 749 and 999 all needed bearings around then. I never replaced the bearings in the hawk rear wheel.
On my dirtbikes I dont have exact miles, but somewhere around 5k is about right.