ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: LeftieBiker on March 14, 2016, 05:55:46 AM
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I'm starting a new topic for the issues I'm having with my bike, since it looks like it isn't a "General Charging" issue I'm experiencing. I was able to update my Zero app and download both logs today. The BMS log, while still cryptic, has much more readable info. Here is a sample, from early in the log - assuming that "top" equals "early"...
BMS ¶NŸå*rS ¡¡¡¡Dec 19 2014 11:38:20 ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ ÿÿÿÿ µáML µû®e ˜ä*rS GþB@ ã˜R sJU 6D3" Dt ÿÿÿÿM)q]S £ t]S €Ö ]S ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ«guQL 'îs]S ÂjfË pCõ% @,B Ãïõ Â÷= ! áõ ¾
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UîåVÑ# eceived FAULT from PL536 #5, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ý
݈ VReceived FAULT from PL536 #5, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ý#݈ VReceived FAULT from PL536 #5, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ýP݈ VReceived FAULT from PL536 #4, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ýP݈ VReceived FAULT from PL536 #5, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ý\݈ VReceived FAULT from PL536 #4, Fault Status Reg: 0x04 ²<ý\݈ VReceived FAU¢¢¢¢B® ™® wn: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(52,0) ²#ý’®ÂVCAN0 FORM error. count=1707 ²¬ «®ÂVì ó µ c:¾ à £ ²€ý•®ÂVERROR: 13/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(65,0) ² ç®ÂVú þ ¬Šc’¿ 0 á ²ýó®ÂVERROR: 1/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(10,0) ²€ý ¯ÂVERROR: 10/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(6,0) 5=(60,0) ² #¯ÂV ¬_Ë b
I don't see dates for most entries (hopefully they are encoded) but these are from the top of the binary file. Opinions?
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Just bumping the post up, in the hope that someone can parse these logs better. Bonkers...? I want to get as much info as possible before contacting Zero by phone or direct email.
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It looks like I'll be getting no further assistance from the West Coast dealer who had looked at the first log for me. He told he thought it was a bad motor, but that it needs to be looked at. I emailed Zero this morning, asking them to tell me what that BMS log is saying about the bike's history. How long does it take Zero to respond?
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I hope not too long. They have 5 people in customer service, which is pretty impressive as there are now over 5000 Zero's on the road. I'm sorry you are having issues and they will take care of you. But I think its impressive that as each year that goes on, less and less issues arise as most bikes will never experience any issues at all over their lifetime. Zero is easily at the issue instance per 1000 bikes that companies like BMW face, and I think Zero will get better at a faster rate than BMW. Zero is still a new company. I feel soon, all the small electrical issues will be fixed and the Zero's will be one of the most reliable motorcycles on the road. The 2016's owners have hardly made a peep on the forums. This is a good sign the company is moving in the right direction.
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"They have 5 people in customer service, which is pretty impressive as there are now over 5000 Zero's on the road. "
Sorry, but what it means is they have 5 people in Customer service, and have 5000 bikes on the road. Any link between the two that implied low problem rates would need more evidence than that. I still haven't heard anything from them.
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Oh dear, I missed this thread somehow... By all means email me your latest log files leftie.
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Will do. Thanks, Bonkers. Still no response from Zero, despite sending the logs Sunday or Monday, and starting another trouble ticket on the website yesterday morning. I am definitely not impressed with their customer service so far...
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Thanks to MostlyBonkers, I have the BMS and bike logs translated. I'll try posting the BMS log, with VIN removed.
EDIT: I can't even post all the errors alone - too many characters. I'll try an edited-edited version tonight...or maybe I'll just email it on request. PM me here for my email address. here is maybe the first month's worth of stuff:
Zero MBB log
Serial number
Firmware rev. 65535
Board rev. 65535
Model b'\xff\xff'
---
00001 2015-09-05 20:42:47 0x6e 0x0e 0x74 0x0e 0x1f 0x28 0x80 0x25 0x8e 0x02 0x3a 0x63 0x94 0x01 0x00 0x01 0xa0 0xcb 0xc3 0xfd 0x59 0x0e 0x00 0x00
00002 2015-09-05 20:42:51 b'ERROR: 26/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(13,0) 5=(140,0)'
00003 2015-09-05 20:43:21 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(54,0)'
00004 2015-09-05 20:43:47 0x55 0x0e 0x5a 0x0e 0x1e 0x29 0x59 0xe3 0x98 0x02 0x39 0x97 0x91 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x80 0x84 0x1e 0x00 0x56 0x0e 0x00 0x00
00005 2015-09-05 20:43:51 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(5,0) 5=(17,0)'
00006 2015-09-05 20:44:21 b'ERROR: 27/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(133,0)'
00007 2015-09-05 20:44:47 0x5c 0x0e 0x61 0x0e 0x1f 0x2a 0xb0 0x6e 0xa3 0x02 0x38 0x63 0x92 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x90 0x88 0x1b 0xfe 0x01 0x4a 0x0e 0x00 0x00
00008 2015-09-05 20:44:52 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(6,0) 5=(26,0)'
00009 2015-09-05 20:45:22 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(32,0)'
... 2015-09-05 20:45:52 b'ERROR: 22/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(9,0) 5=(98,0)'
00012 2015-09-05 20:46:22 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(6,0) 5=(46,0)'
00013 2015-09-05 20:46:23 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=2611'
(...)
00031 2015-09-05 22:55:44 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1'
(...)
00062 2015-09-05 23:55:03 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1'
(...)
00142 2015-09-11 02:09:56 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1'
00143 2015-09-11 02:10:30 b'ERROR: 13/6000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(59,0)'
(...)
00145 2015-09-11 02:11:30 b'ERROR: 7/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(18,0)'
(.)
00163 2015-09-11 02:15:03 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=522'
00164 2015-09-11 02:15:09 b'ERROR: 3/10500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(16,0)'
(...)
00167 2015-09-11 02:16:09 b'ERROR: 5/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(7,0) 5=(66,0)'
(...)
00170 2015-09-11 02:17:10 b'ERROR: 4/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(7,0) 5=(41,0)'
00171 2015-09-11 02:17:40 b'ERROR: 13/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(9,0) 5=(80,0)'
(...)
00173 2015-09-11 02:18:10 b'ERROR: 8/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(37,0)'
...
07:44:58 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=1'
(...)
00233 2015-09-11 07:45:25 b'ERROR: 5/840000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(12,0)'
00234 2015-09-11 07:45:32 b'DEBUG: Switching to voltage SOC mode. SOC: 100%, VSOC: 100%, Ihall: -750mA, Iext: 0mA'
(...)
00309 2015-09-11 16:18:52 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=8'
00310 2015-09-11 16:19:14 b'ERROR: 4/1540500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(28,0)'
00311 2015-09-11 16:19:44 b'ERROR: 56/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(47,0) 5=(188,0)'
(...) 2015-09-11 16:20:14 b'ERROR: 77/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(19,0) 4=(155,0) 5=(182,0)'
00314 2015-09-11 16:20:23 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
(.)
00320 2015-09-11 16:21:23 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00321 2015-09-11 16:21:23 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
(...)
00323 2015-09-11 16:21:45 b'ERROR: 112/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 17, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(94,0) 4=(171,0) 5=(273,0)'
...
00325 2015-09-11 16:22:15 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(12,0) 5=(113,0)'
00326 2015-09-11 16:22:23 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00327 2015-09-11 16:22:23 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
(...)
00331 2015-09-11 16:23:57 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=2018'
00332 2015-09-11 16:24:15 b'ERROR: 52/6000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 10, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(19,0) 4=(63,0) 5=(136,0)'
00333 2015-09-11 16:24:23 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
(...) 2015-09-11 16:27:24 b'ERROR: 36/9000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(54,0) 5=(126,0)'
...
00356 2015-09-11 16:28:24 b'ERROR: 20/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 11, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(6,0) 4=(20,0) 5=(24,0)'
...
00358 2015-09-11 16:28:55 b'ERROR: 97/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 6, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(39,0) 4=(159,0) 5=(269,0)'
00359 2015-09-11 16:28:57 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=856'
(...)
00366 2015-09-11 16:29:24 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00367 2015-09-11 16:29:24 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
00368 2015-09-11 16:29:24 b' ADC Data : 2A33, 2A39, 2A37, 2A3A, 2A39, 2A3A, 2A37, 2A39, 2A39, 2A38, 2A38, 2A39, 2A3C, 2A35, 2A38, 2A38, 2A3B, 2A3B, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 2A3A, 2A39, 2A39, 2A2B'
00369 2015-09-11 16:29:30 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(14,0)'
(...)
00414 2015-09-12 02:03:30 b'CAN0 CRC error. count=1'
00415 2015-09-12 02:03:53 b'ERROR: 26/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(17,0) 5=(97,0)'
00416 2015-09-12 02:04:23 b'ERROR: 68/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 4, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(7,0) 4=(99,0) 5=(131,0)'
...
00418 2015-09-12 02:04:53 b'ERROR: 104/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 7, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(67,0) 4=(168,0) 5=(276,0)'
00419 2015-09-12 02:05:23 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(7,0) 5=(106,0)'
00420 2015-09-12 02:05:25 0xf1 0x0f 0xf6 0x0f 0x1e 0x24 0x71 ...
00421 2015-09-12 02:05:54 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(36,0)'
00422 2015-09-12 02:06:24 b'ERROR: 34/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(29,0) 5=(135,0)'
...
00424 2015-09-12 02:06:54 b'ERROR: 120/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 3, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(72,0) 4=(214,0) 5=(283,0)'
00425 2015-09-12 02:07:23 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00426 2015-09-12 02:07:23 b' ...
00428 2015-09-12 02:07:24 b'ERROR: 63/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(7,0) 4=(90,0) 5=(219,0)'
(...)
00437 2015-09-12 02:08:00 b'ERROR: 18/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(8,0) 5=(100,0)'
00438 2015-09-12 02:08:15 b'Voltage Across Contactor: 27767mV (Okay)'
(...)
00456 2015-09-12 16:24:21 b'CAN0 FORM error. count=1'
00457 2015-09-12 16:24:44 b'ERROR: 25/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(14,0) 5=(87,0)'
00458 2015-09-12 16:25:14 b'ERROR: 103/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 4, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(2,0) 4=(106,0) 5=(264,0)'
...
00460 2015-09-12 16:25:44 b'ERROR: 53/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 4, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(11,0) 4=(71,0) 5=(179,0)'
00461 2015-09-12 16:26:15 b'ERROR: 111/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 7, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(13,0) 4=(205,0) 5=(283,0)'
... 2015-09-12 16:26:45 b'ERROR: 83/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 7, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(47,0) 4=(187,0) 5=(192,0)'
00464 2015-09-12 16:27:15 b'ERROR: 90/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 3, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(70,0) 4=(212,0) 5=(248,0)'
... 2015-09-12 16:27:45 b'ERROR: 5/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(6,0) 5=(55,0)'
00467 2015-09-12 16:28:14 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00468 2015-09-12 16:28:14 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ..
00470 2015-09-12 16:28:15 b'ERROR: 42/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(33,0) 5=(148,0)'
...
00480 2015-09-12 16:28:51 b'ERROR: 5/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(31,0)'
00481 2015-09-12 16:29:07 b'Voltage Across Contactor: 27627mV (Okay)'
00482 2015-09-12 16:31:47 b'DEBUG: Resetting CAN0 due to error passive mode'
...
00490 2015-09-12 16:31:50 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=2376'
00491 2015-09-12 16:32:25 b'ERROR: 34/10500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(33,0) 5=(111,0)'
...
00493 2015-09-12 16:32:55 b'ERROR: 37/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(61,0) 5=(118,0)'
(...)
00760 2015-09-22 00:16:01 b'CAN0 FORM error. count=1'
00761 2015-09-22 00:16:05 b'ERROR: 4/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(13,0)'
...
00769 2015-09-22 00:16:41 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(12,0)'
00770 2015-09-22 00:16:52 b'Voltage Across Contactor: 28090mV (Okay)'
(...)
00828 2015-09-23 01:40:40 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1'
00829 2015-09-23 01:40:51 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00830 2015-09-23 01:40:51 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
00831 2015-09-23 01:40:51 b' ADC Data : 29D7, 29DE, ...
00832 2015-09-23 01:41:08 b'ERROR: 24/109500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(10,0) 5=(128,0)'
...
00834 2015-09-23 01:41:38 b'ERROR: 34/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(44,0) 5=(142,0)'
00835 2015-09-23 01:42:09 b'ERROR: 54/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(108,0) 5=(199,0)'
...
00837 2015-09-23 01:42:39 b'ERROR: 51/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(77,0) 5=(169,0)'
00838 2015-09-23 01:42:51 b'ERROR: PL536 had 4 invalid cell events'
00839 2015-09-23 01:42:51 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ... ADC Data : 294C, 2953, ...
00841 2015-09-23 01:43:09 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(15,0) 5=(70,0)'
...
00843 2015-09-23 01:43:39 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(17,0)'
00844
-
And the second half of the edited-edited-edited log, with extra 000's removed from bad cell events...
2015-09-23 01:44:09 b'ERROR: 105/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 5, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(2,0) 3=(26,0) 4=(221,0) 5=(286,0)'
...
00846 2015-09-23 01:44:39 b'ERROR: 47/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(11,0) 4=(123,0) 5=(195,0)'
00847 2015-09-23 01:45:10 b'ERROR: 9/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(29,0) 5=(107,0)'
...
00849 2015-09-23 01:45:40 b'ERROR: 58/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(2,0) 4=(113,0) 5=(152,0)'
2015-09-23 01:45:40 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=3024'
00851 2015-09-23 01:46:10 b'ERROR: 59/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(9,0) 4=(122,0) 5=(231,0)'
0(...) 2015-09-23 01:46:40 b'ERROR: 14/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(38,0) 5=(119,0)'
... 2015-09-23 01:47:10 b'ERROR: 83/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(4,0) 4=(137,0) 5=(223,0)'
...
00857 2015-09-23 01:47:40 b'ERROR: 80/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(2,0) 3=(4,0) 4=(159,0) 5=(221,0)'
00858 2015-09-23 01:48:10 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(5,0) 5=(64,0)'
...
00860 2015-09-23 01:48:40 b'ERROR: 6/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(48,0)'
...
00862 2015-09-23 01:49:41 b'ERROR: 70/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(3,0) 4=(155,0) 5=(215,0)'
00863 2015-09-23 01:49:52 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
...
(...)b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=2798'
00869 2015-09-23 01:50:41 b'ERROR: 5/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(45,0)'
00870 2015-09-23 01:50:52 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
00871 2015-09-23 01:50:52 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, (...) 2015-09-23 01:52:11 b'ERROR: 60/4500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(4,0) 4=(75,0) 5=(161,0)'
... 2015-09-23 01:52:41 b'ERROR: 12/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(13,0) 5=(69,0)'
00877 2015-09-23 01:52:52 b'ERROR: PL536 had 2 invalid cell events'
00878 2015-09-23 01:52:52 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
00879 2015-09-23 01:52:52 b' ADC Data : 2925, 292A, (...) 2015-09-23 01:53:11 b'ERROR: 59/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(14,0) 4=(113,0) 5=(189,0)'
... 2015-09-23 01:53:42 b'ERROR: 30/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(33,0) 5=(102,0)'
...
00884 2015-09-23 01:55:12 b'ERROR: 54/4500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 4, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(18,0) 4=(112,0) 5=(137,0)'
...
00886 2015-09-23 01:55:40 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=2217'
00887 2015-09-23 01:55:42 b'ERROR: 18/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(38,0) 5=(138,0)'
00888 2015-09-23 01:56:12 b'ERROR: 22/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(44,0) 5=(130,0)'
(...) 2015-09-23 01:56:42 b'ERROR: 7/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(32,0) 5=(76,0)'
00891 2015-09-23 01:57:12 b'ERROR: 74/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(7,0) 4=(102,0) 5=(194,0)'
...
00894 2015-09-23 01:57:42 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(30,0)'
(...)
00989 2015-09-25 22:12:34 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1'
(...) 2015-09-25 22:13:02 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(11,0)'
...
01592 2015-09-30 01:44:57 b'ERROR: 4/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(19,0) 5=(70,0)'
01593 2015-09-30 01:45:27 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(14,0) 5=(69,0)'
01594 2015-09-30 01:45:49 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01595 2015-09-30 01:45:49 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
(...)
01859 2015-09-30 15:20:50 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=1'
01860 2015-09-30 15:21:13 b'ERROR: 69/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(91,0) 5=(197,0)'
01861 2015-09-30 15:21:43 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01862 2015-09-30 15:21:43 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
01863 2015-09-30 15:21:43 b' ADC Data : 29FB, 2A02, 29FE, 2A03, 2A00, 2A0C, 2A06, 2A0B, 2A06, 2A02, 2A07, 2A08, 2A10, 29F7, 29F9, 2A02, 2A05, 2A07, 2A05, 29FB, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 2A04, 29FC, 29FF, 29EC'
01864 2015-09-30 15:21:43 b'ERROR: 78/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 9, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(3,0) 4=(155,0) 5=(171,0)'
... 2015-09-30 15:22:43 b'ERROR: 102/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 9, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(25,0) 4=(130,0) 5=(232,0)'
...
01868 2015-09-30 15:23:13 b'ERROR: 15/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(2,0) 4=(37,0) 5=(127,0)'
01869 2015-09-30 15:23:43 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01870 2015-09-30 15:23:43 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
01871 2015-09-30 15:23:43 b' ADC Data : 2945, 294E, 2949, 2953, 294F, 295F, 2951, 2958, 2959, 2955, 2956, 2953, 2966, 2942, 2943, 2954, 2955, 2954, 2952, 2945, 2949, 2954, 2948, 2951, 294D, 0000, 0000, 0000'
... 2015-09-30 15:24:43 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01874 2015-09-30 15:24:43 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
...
01876 2015-09-30 15:24:44 b'ERROR: 74/4500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(3,0) 4=(145,0) 5=(204,0)'
... 2015-09-30 15:25:14 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(22,0)'
01879 2015-09-30 15:25:44 b'ERROR: 51/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(16,0) 4=(107,0) 5=(169,0)'
...
01881 2015-09-30 15:25:50 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=1878'
01882 2015-09-30 15:26:14 b'ERROR: 2/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(58,0)'
01883 2015-09-30 15:26:44 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(29,0)'
...
01885 2015-09-30 15:27:43 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01886 2015-09-30 15:27:43 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
...
01889 2015-09-30 15:28:14 b'ERROR: 5/4500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(7,0) 5=(78,0)'
01890 2015-09-30 15:28:44 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(40,0)'
...
01892 2015-09-30 15:29:44 b'ERROR: 6/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(35,0)'
...
01894 2015-09-30 15:30:15 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(3,0) 5=(34,0)'
...
01896 2015-09-30 15:30:50 b'CAN0 STUFF error. count=2895'
01897 2015-09-30 15:31:15 b'ERROR: 2/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(41,0)'
01898 2015-09-30 15:31:21 0x2d 0x85 0x01 0x00 0x0e
01899 2015-09-30 15:31:45 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(27,0)'
...
01901 2015-09-30 15:32:15 b'ERROR: 3/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(63,0)'
01902 2015-09-30 15:32:43 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
01903 2015-09-30 15:32:43 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ... 7981, 7981, 7965'
(...) 2015-10-05 22:03:19 b'CAN0 BIT1 error. count=1'
03681 2015-10-05 22:03:31 0x00 0x26 0xc5 0x01 0x00 0x13 0xbf 0x01 0x00 0xe2 0x04 0x00 0x00
(...)
03698 2015-10-05 22:09:45 b'ERROR: 1/54000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(1,0) 5=(10,0)'
...
03700 2015-10-05 22:10:15 b'ERROR: 23/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(13,0) 5=(129,0)'
03701 2015-10-05 22:10:45 b'ERROR: 19/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(21,0) 5=(93,0)'
... 2015-10-05 22:11:15 b'ERROR: 25/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(48,0) 5=(112,0)'
03704 2015-10-05 22:11:46 b'ERROR: 19/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(1,0) 4=(24,0) 5=(131,0)'
...
03707 2015-10-05 22:12:16 b'ERROR: 5/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(46,0)'
03708 2015-10-05 22:12:46 b'ERROR: 56/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(1,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(66,0) 5=(259,0)'
...
03710 2015-10-05 22:13:16 b'ERROR: 7/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(4,0) 5=(66,0)'
... 2015-10-05 22:13:46 b'ERROR: 68/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 1, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(115,0) 5=(212,0)'
03713 2015-10-05 22:14:10 b'ERROR: PL536 had 2 invalid cell events'
03714 2015-10-05 22:14:10 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ... 2015-10-05 22:14:16 b'ERROR: 1/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(2,0) 5=(17,0)'
03718 2015-10-05 22:15:10 b'ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events'
03719 2015-10-05 22:15:10 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
03720 2015-10-05 22:15:10 b' ADC Data : 28D6, 28DD, 28D6, 28DA, 28D7, 28E2, 28DA, 28DF, 28DF, 28D8, 28DB, 28D4, 28EB, 28CE, 28CC, 28D9, 28DC, 28D8, 28DF, 28D6, 28D9, 28DD, 28D6, 28DC, 28DD, 28DB, 2800, 0000'
...2015-10-05 22:15:17 b'ERROR: 92/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(18,0) 4=(209,0) 5=(236,0)'
03723 2015-10-05 22:15:47 b'ERROR: 51/1500 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(4,0) 3=(2,0) 4=(106,0) 5=(167,0)'
...
03725 2015-10-05 22:16:47 b'ERROR: 84/3000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(4,0) 3=(7,0) 4=(177,0) 5=(246,0)'
03726 2015-10-05 22:17:10 b'ERROR: PL536 had 2 invalid cell events'
03727 2015-10-05 22:17:10 b' Worst event: 0000, 0000, ...
03728 2015-10-05 22:17:10 b' ADC Data : 2882, 288A, 2883, 2886, 2885, 288F, 2885, 288C, 288B, 2886, 288C, 2883, 2899, 2879, 2879, 2886, 2889, 2887, 288E, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 288A, 2888, 288A, 286F'
(...)
It looks to me like the bike has been throwing codes since September of last year. Correct? It was shipped to me on 2/12/16 and I got it on 2/25/16, I think.
-
I don't see in this dump the "isolation fault" error that you mentioned earlier. Reading log files can be tricky, since some error messages I surmise might not actually be due to errors, just poorly designed logging. Hope you get a response from someone knowledgeable from Zero or a dealer on this.
-
I assume that the errors displayed on the dash don't match the ones logged by the BMS. There are no errors logged that mention the kill switch or sidestand, either, and none of the ones that were displayed were there on the dash...
-
I had a quick look through your logs earlier Leftie. I found similar errors to yours in my logs. I don't think we can draw much from these. I'm not convinced the bikes export the logs properly either. They always seem to stop too soon. It may be that the parser is quitting before the end of the file, but that's just speculation.
I concur with kocho. I think your best bet is to work with Zero support who can then instruct your nearest dealer with what to do. You can chase progress by quoting the ticket number when you call or email.
Best I can think of. Not ideal, I know.
-
I fully intend to work with Zero support, but they first have to respond to my attempts to contact them. So far, 5 days after logs were emailed, and two days after I re-reported the problem on their website, I have gotten nothing from them but another auto-response. I'm reluctant to call, because I prefer to have a record of what is said in conversations about tech support and warranty issues.
Ironically, I had much better responses when the X-Treme XM3000 scooter I bought in '08 or '09 was badly damaged in shipping - the manufacturer had parts on the way in pretty short order - from China.
-
"I had a quick look through your logs earlier Leftie. I found similar errors to yours in my logs. I don't think we can draw much from these."
I had to remove most of that log to post it here. Does your bike have dozens of these apparent errors? Does it have 500 miles on it, with most of the errors logged before 450 miles? Finally, have you gotten anything like the 0029 "BMS Isolation Danger" error? It would indeed help to know which of these are real, serious errors.
-
Ahh, I didn't spot the BMS error! Not sure why. I haven't seen that in my logs before. I was a little distracted at the time.
That sounds like it to me. Apologies if you've mentioned it before and it just hasn't sinked in. I started a new job the week before last and I've had a lot on my mind.
So that error is good news of sorts, I think. My limited understanding is that an isolation error is the result of some of the safety checks returning results outside normal parameters. Again, I'm speculating here, but I think the system checks that various components are electrically isolated, i.e. the circuits have specific known resistances under test voltage that indicate there are no current leaks. IF I've got that right, then the presence of moisture within those circuits could affect those resistances enough to flash an error. There are probably thresholds too, so that a more significant drop in resistance due to a short circuit will disable the circuit or blow a fuse somewhere.
It's all down to the various levels of protection built in to prevent damage to components or electrical shocks. My guess is that even if you haven't ridden the bike in the rain, the climate the bike has been kept in has lead to some condensation and you may have some moisture in some of the wiring or even inside one of the components. It's still winter, the air is damp and average temperatures are low. Is there anywhere you can store the bike that's warm and dry for a few days? Is it practical to keep your bike in the house or some other heated building? At the very least, it's a test that can be reported back to Zero. Action can be taken based on the outcome.
All of this are just my thoughts and a suggestion that can be tried whilst you're waiting for Zero.
The delay with Zero may be due to the issue being pushed further up the chain internally. Just like in IT where first line support don't know the answer so they forward it on to second line and so on. They should have at least responded and told you the issue was being referred though.
If five people covering customer support for five thousand bikes results in them all being swamped, it does indicate there are a lot of issues to deal with.
More ramblings from me, make of them what you will, I won't be offended. :)
-
I don't agree with the Isolation errors being from moisture. I had *hoped* that they were, but here's what's wrong with that theory:
* The bike arrived in the rain, and I had to wash crud off of it a day or two later, but the first boot-up, and most of the first ride, were error-free. All of the bikes exposure to moisture happened before the first ride, and none of it after.
* The weather on both days I rode was mild and dry. On the second ride, it was actually warm and dry. Yet both errors happened after the rides, which should, along with me blowing warm air over the bike before the second ride, have dried the BMS, not gotten it wet, or even damp. The 0029 error occurred after I'd ridden the bike with no problems (after a BMS reset), parked it for 20 minutes, and then started charging. Charging seemed to trigger the 0029 error, plus the return of the other errors. I'll have to double-check that, but I believe that is the sequence of events. The other dealer I consulted says he rides an SR in the rain regularly, with no issues. So unless the shipper got the bike drenched, the timing of the errors is wrong. Also, most of the log entries occur before the bike was shipped to me, not after it arrived...
* The bike came from California. It may have been exposed to rain on the way here, but I have no evidence of that. It was shipped in an enclosed trailer. My garage has been mainly cool, but with only moderate humidity, not high.
-
Here is what I wrote, in the General Charging Questions topic:
"I took the bike out for a ride, with fingers crossed. By about 9 miles out the 028 code was gone from the dash, leaving the 020 and 051 codes. The 020 became occasional instead of constant, so I stopped, let the bike sit a few minutes, and reset the BMS again. No flashing red BMS light, and after a minute of riding the dash also stopped showing errors. Greatly relieved, I rode another 25 miles or so. When I got home I let the bike sit for 15 minutes, plugged it in to charge...and got the 020 and 028 errors, now joined by 029, which is "BMS Isolation Danger". I unplugged the bike and left it in the garage."
So what in the BMS log corresponds to that "Isolation Danger" 0029 code? Do you think the app terminated the "translation" before it appeared?
-
I appreciate the curiosity and all the effort you've put into diagnosing the bike, but at this point you should take it to a dealer as its not going to fix itself and its not something you'll be able to properly diagnose/fix without all the dealer tools.
-
As I told you, Harlan, there is no dealer near me. I'd like, primarily, to have the bike picked up and the sale reversed, since I was apparently sold it under false pretenses. Failing that, I will find a way to transport the bike to a dealership, but I need Zero to tell me which of the "local" dealerships is best for warranty work, and Zero hasn't told me anything whatsoever, just about a week after I sent the logs. I don't suppose that you'd like to weigh in on the BMS log?
-
I'm not sure which dealer you bought the bike from or why you think they sold you the bike under false pretenses. You said yourself the bike was error free when you first took it for a spin. Lucky for you the bike comes with a great warranty but the longer you delay taking it to a dealer, the longer its going to take to get repaired.
As I said before, following my initial diagnosis after you emailed me the log, there's not much further diagnosis that can be done without having the bike in the shop.
-
I'm not sure which dealer you bought the bike from or why you think they sold you the bike under false pretenses. You said yourself the bike was error free when you first took it for a spin. Lucky for you the bike comes with a great warranty but the longer you delay taking it to a dealer, the longer its going to take to get repaired.
As I said before, following my initial diagnosis after you emailed me the log, there's not much further diagnosis that can be done without having the bike in the shop.
You never saw the bike's BMS log (or if you did you didn't reply after I sent it) only the other, shorter log. The BMS log is, according to MostlyBonkers, twice as long as usual. It is also full of what appear to be error reports, along with what appear to be normal startup and run cycles. I told the dealer that I needed the bike to be in perfect running condition, and they said they never let a bike out the door any other way. If the bike has been throwing error codes since last September, and this dealership doesn't know how to do anything other than reset the BMS to clear them, well that doesn't add up well.
I'm not sure how many ways I can put this, but I'll try once more:
I am waiting for Zero to respond, so I can find out *where to ship the bike* for service. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars more that I can ill afford, just to find out the dealership it goes to also doesn't do anything more than add accessories and check belt and tire pressure.
-
The logs that a dealer can download from a Zero are much more detailed than the logs you can send from your phone. In some cases the cause of a problem will be obvious to Zero from the dealer logs as opposed the logs sent to them by a Zero owners phone. My dealer has a laptop with a software program on it that they plug into the bike to download the logs from. When I had my 2014 SR there were a few times it took several weeks to get a problem diagnosed and fixed. And yes, Zero sometimes took a long time to get back with my dealer on certain issues.
I don't think Zero needs to get into the business of dictating to owners which dealer they should go to. If you go onto Zero's web site you can see where the Zero dealers are located. Pretty simple to search for the dealers web site for an phone number you can call the dealer and talk to them. Maybe ask on this forum if anyone has experience with a dealer you are considering going to. For brands like H-D or Suzuki there are dealers everywhere and not always easy to know which one to go to. But it should always be the customers decision which one to go to and not the factory's.
-
"But it should always be the customers decision which one to go to and not the factory's."
Great, but it would be nice to be able to make an informed decision. If Zero decides it's too much trouble to tell me which NY or CT dealer 120+ miles away from me is best equipped to do substantial diagnostic and repair work for them, I will try asking the dealerships. Maybe they'll even give me an accurate answer, as opposed to 'Bring it in and we'll take a look.' I'm not betting either way.
If anyone here knows which Zero dealer in the downstate NY / Connecticut area is best for this, I'd appreciate the info.
-
There are two dealers I would recommend:
Rockwell Cycles 1005 Rt. 9W, Ft Montgomery, NY 10922 (845) 446-3834
This is my nearest dealer now (near the Bear Mountain bridge) and they have treated me very well. They have a real can-do attitude, with (ICE-bike) road-racing & mod experience few shops have these days.
Great Bay Cycles 90 Lafayette Rd, North Hampton, NH 03862 (603) 964-4450
This is another excellent Zero dealer IMO - they replaced my motor under warranty. Mike in particular has extensive Zero experience. I spoke to him for quite a while about Zeros, he really knows his stuff.
Zero took care of me when my bike had problems. It didn't take place very quickly or in the way I thought it would, but it did happen and the bike's running great.
In my case, there was a definite sequence of events that had to be followed:
1) Take bike to dealer
2) Dealer & Zero diagnose problem
3) Warranty claim initiated by Zero
4) Parts ordering
5) Return to dealer for repairs after parts arrive
Ray
-
Yes Leftie, take Harlan's advice, and Ray's recommendation and get it to the dealer to drop off for a while. I was hoping the bike would dry out after you washed it, but that should have happened by now unless corrosion formed. But it might be unrelated. Only the dealer at this point can figure out how to fix it. So I know it will be tempting to reply right away to this comment, but try to focus your efforts on renting a cheap trailer from U-Haul, and making arrangements to drop off the bike.
Get the bike to the dealer, and just understand that things happen and things aren't always perfect and that's ok. Reading your threads has reminded me recently again and again of my grandfather, who has now passed away, but because I said that, I'll share what I mean.
While he was working (till he was 74 years old) nothing ever bothered him, and he never complained about anything no matter how bad it was. When he retired, little things stared to bother him. I remember in particular, he seemed to make a federal case about how the newspaper man threw the newspaper into the grass and not onto the driveway sometimes missing it by a few feet. He would wake up each day and go outside just to watch him throw it to make sure he did it right, and if he didn't he would be upset and talk about it all day.
My grandfather was very successful while he was working and bore a lot of responsibility. I think it was a shock to his system when he retired. And things that were simple became a big deal.
I can sense from you when you bump a thread twice yourself without anyone else posting in a few hours, you must be perhaps in a similar situation, I don't know. But the correlations to my grandpa have happened a lot recently reading your posts. Getting him busy everyday helping in the community solved this complaining and anxiety for him. I only say this as something bigger than your bike not working to think about. Sure get the bike to the dealer to have them fix it, but as someone who has gone through their own issues recently, I can tell you sometimes it's more important to focus on fixing us, than it is our material possessions. I know this is off topic but in this case I feel relevant and if you let it, perhaps one of the most helpful posts you will read.
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That's very kind and generous of you Terry. I'll take a few leaves out of that book myself. I've been known to fixate on issues when in the grand scheme of things they are insignificant.
I've also sensed some disgruntlement Leftie, which is understandable. It just reinforces how important a role the dealerships have to play. My dealership is 120 miles away and after two months of ownership my Zero has spent a quarter of it's time off the road. I have faith though. Zero and Streetbike will see me right. Please put your faith in Zero and their dealers too Leftie. You've had help and advice from some of the top people in the field. You are in good hands and I hope these last few posts make you feel better. I think it's just a case of working through the system. Once your bike is fixed the pleasure it will give you will make it all worthwhile. It's just a bump in the road. :)
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Thanks for the suggestion, Ray. Rockwell is probably closest to me anyway.
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Great Bay Cycles 90 Lafayette Rd, North Hampton, NH 03862 (603) 964-4450
This is another excellent Zero dealer IMO - they replaced my motor under warranty. Mike in particular has extensive Zero experience. I spoke to him for quite a while about Zeros, he really knows his stuff.
For what its worth, I would choose this dealer, as experience counts for a lot.
A "can do attitude" is great, but if they don't have much experience with zeros, it could take them a bit longer to find the issue.
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Great Bay Cycles 90 Lafayette Rd, North Hampton, NH 03862 (603) 964-4450
This is another excellent Zero dealer IMO - they replaced my motor under warranty. Mike in particular has extensive Zero experience. I spoke to him for quite a while about Zeros, he really knows his stuff.
For what its worth, I would choose this dealer, as experience counts for a lot.
A "can do attitude" is great, but if they don't have much experience with zeros, it could take them a bit longer to find the issue.
Good point, and I will contact them, despite their being two states away.
EDIT: They have gone out of business, as of 1/1/16.
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They have gone out of business, as of 1/1/16.
Wow, bummer - I was unaware. That's a real loss.
Ray
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Life must be tough for motorcycle dealerships lately. Within the last 6 months two large multi-brand Japanese (one also carried Zero and the other Royal Enfield brands) dealerships near me have gone out of business, both had been operating continuously since around 1970. Rumor has it that their problems started with changes to their brand franchise requirements that they were financially unable to meet. Also, the cost of running a business and paying rent on commercial property anywhere in the Bay Area, are putting a lot of businesses out of business around here, too. :(
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Bringing your bike to the dealership is just the first step. Actually having the bike repaired may take a while longer.
My 2014 Zero S has been at the local dealership for about 2 months now after some intermittent starting problems. I think everyone involved is equally frustrated, in that the mechanics can only follow the advice of Zero technicians who are remotely troubleshooting the issue. There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.
I am happy that the dealer and Zero are committed to fixing the problem and that all the work will be under warranty. I love the bike, and don't regret buying it.... yet.
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There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.
I've been wondering that myself. With the saying 'If it isn't reliable, it isn't viable' ringing in my ears. Is Zero a viable company when just about every bike that hits the road gives them multiple warranty claims? I just hope there's a silent majority out there that are happily riding around with no issues. Aside from the core enthusiasts, I'm sure that many get drawn to this forum because they have issues to resolve.
Please keep us posted with your progress Leftie. I hate to hear stories of bikes being off the road for months at a time. Zero still have a lot of work to do to improve their troubleshooting methods. Better diagnostics, a more proactive approach to seeing issues through to resolution, active management of communication with dealerships, and so on...
Better still, just improve reliability! Why are standards so low?
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Gee, I wouldn't want to seem...obsessive, or anything.
Brief update: Zero never got back to me, so I called them. And was told to take it to a dealership. When I explained that I needed to know *which* dealership, (and being first told that I got to pick whichever one I liked!) I was then told that the closest one to me (120miles) is very good, so I'm in touch with them. They got the logs yesterday, so I'm waiting for some assessment of them, but I know I'll have to pay to have the bike shipped there. Hauling it there myself would be too hard on me, especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home.
I can reset the bike so the errors vanish for a little bit, so I have little doubt that this is what the dealership who sold me the bike did. If I read the BMS log correctly, they did it right before shipping it.
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There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.
I've been wondering that myself. With the saying 'If it isn't reliable, it isn't viable' ringing in my ears. Is Zero a viable company when just about every bike that hits the road gives them multiple warranty claims? I just hope there's a silent majority out there that are happily riding around with no issues. Aside from the core enthusiasts, I'm sure that many get drawn to this forum because they have issues to resolve.
Better still, just improve reliability! Why are standards so low?
Why would you think there is a backlog of bikes with similar issues?
When speaking with people who work for Zero, they admit that their bikes have similar reliability issues to other manufacturers bikes, but I think for the most part they are quite reliable.
I think the main difference is that troubleshooting electronics is more challenging than troubleshooting mechanical components.
Some people even seem to use this forum as their help desk before contacting Zero, which I think is backwards. There would probably be fewer posts about issues if people contacted Zero/their dealer first, then posted only after the issue isn't rectified. Most people don't post "bike worked fine today, just as expected" because that's not news.
Also the echo chamber that is the ElectricMotorcycleForum means we read multiple posts about the same bike that has issues. When reading multiple posts, that may make it seem like the issues are more far reaching than they actually are. Obviously people who are not riding have more time on their hands. [emoji6] And since they wish they were riding they tend to post more than those of us who are riding.
I hope all your issues get cleared up quickly, and you all can be enjoying the bike for what you got it for in the first place!
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Just in case you have not considered it already: when I bought my Vectrix (in fact, for the purpose of hauling it home about 130 miles) I installed a hitch on my passenger car. $100 delivered, I installed it myself and it was fairly easy as it was a direct custom fit out of the box. UHaul motorcycle trailer rental was something like $20 a day and it is low and with a wide ramp to easily load the bike then secure it with ratchet tiedowns ($10). Another $15 and an hour for crimping wires for the hitch plug compatible with most UHaul trailers to control the brake lights and turn signals. If you buy the hitch from UHaul, I think they can install it and the plug for you.
The hitch has been very useful for a bicycle carrier that I use quite often with a 4 bike rack. I've used it handful of times more for hauling my motorcycles - for pickup from the purchase place and to register and filter them before I had a motorcycle license in my pocket, and to take my motorcycle test (can't drive there on the bike without a license!). And if my bike gets disabled on the road, I can get it back home or to a repair place myself (hasn't happened yet, but it might).
I have a compact car that is not rated to tow anything, but since the trailer and the bike weigh about as much as a full load of adults in the car, it can handle it with a gentle driving style. I would not make it a daily hauler, but for the occasional need it works.
I'll have to pay to have the bike shipped there. Hauling it there myself would be too hard on me
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I'm not sure why you cropped the second half of the sentence, given the relevance, but here it is, again:
"...especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home." I am in poor health, and can't drive, for 6+ hours in one day, period.
If you are going to make that offer, Kocho, I suggest you do it before I make arrangements to ship the bike to a dealer for repair. If anyone else wants to make me an offer on the bike, as-is, you pick it up, I have the title in hand. I'm not desperate for money, but have no enthusiasm for this bike left. If anyone wants it for the asking price of the 2014 SR for sale here, that will get it for sure.
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Sorry, was focusing on the information I provided, you do with it what you want (might have a friend or a relative to do it for you if you can't).
As for offer, just emailed you one through visforvoltage since I don't know how to contact you off-line here. If you do not receive the email soon, please let me know and we'll find a way to get in touch. Again, sorry if my offer is too low, but I am not looking to buy for more, so feel free to just say no or wait a couple of weeks to see if you get a better offer.
EDIT: if someone else is thinking of getting Leftie's bike, make him an offer now. My offer is very low so there is a good chance yours will be better: you'll get a nice bike and Leftie a better deal!
I'm not sure why you cropped the second half of the sentence, given the relevance, but here it is, again:
"...especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home." I am in poor health, and can't drive, for 6+ hours in one day, period.
If you are going to make that offer, Kocho, I suggest you do it before I make arrangements to ship the bike to a dealer for repair. If anyone else wants to make me an offer on the bike, as-is, you pick it up, I have the title in hand. I'm not desperate for money, but have no enthusiasm for this bike left. If anyone wants it for the asking price of the 2014 SR for sale here, that will get it for sure.
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Why would you think there is a backlog of bikes with similar issues?
I actually went to the trouble to find this thread--I thought it was a forum poll, but no, a google spreadsheet: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4482.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4482.0)
It's a bit outdated now, but still relevant. Over 50 percent of the respondents are 2014+ models, and only 37% of respondents have had no issues.
My other data point is that my bike was in the shop for two months, and when I arrived there were 3 other 2014+ bikes with similar issues, when I called for updates, the mechanic went on at length about the steady stream of Zeros coming in with electrical problems, and when I finally picked up my bike today, the mechanic pointed out the pool of Zeros that were under diagnosis for electrical problems. It's no echo chamber, although how many Zeros are sold out of this shop and what the percentage of failure is, I can't say.
Not trying to be a killjoy, but people should know that they may have issues and shouldn't be incredibly shocked, as it is new technology (still). I am actually really happy that they are honoring their warranty. Jumping back on the bike today it felt great. So much nicer to ride versus my Honda 919, which still feels so unwieldy despite all the tire changes and suspension work I've done on it...
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Just a thought Leftie, do you have any friends or relatives that might be willing to drop the bike at the dealer for you? I'm assuming it's a no from the dealer, which is disappointing.
I think we've been lucky with Streetbike here in the UK. I'm not sure Zero have been reimbursing the multiple pickups, so Streetbike have been racking up the miles at their own expense. I think Zero will have quite a hefty bill to foot for all that goodwill, if they have a mind to. Over 2,000 miles of Zero gathering to date. Some of that will be initial deliveries, but only a fraction. My delivery was the first leg of a Zero pickup. I rode the last 45 miles or so home, so my delivery was gratis really.
I know you're probably disgruntled at this point Leftie, but you do have a great bike in your hands. We have to expect some teething troubles, fixed under warranty. After that there's good evidence that we can enjoy some reliability. That's if we don't get a series of dodgy chargers... I appreciate you're not in great health and I don't know quite how that changes things for you. However, the SR will be reasonably light, fun and easy to ride bike for you. With the Diginow charger ready to roll off the production line soon, you can also look forward to road trips. It's an exciting time to be part of the electric motorcycling community. As a long term EV owner, it would be a shame to lose you.
If you can bring yourself to get this issue fixed, I'm confident you'll fall in love with the bike and all will be forgiven once you've got a few miles under your belt. You've had a bad start, that's all. The dealer you bought from is the one to be upset with from what I gather. Zero will see you right.
Actually, one thing that might work is a new email to customer services explaining the circumstances.
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I've written the email for you Leftie. Worth a try as a last resort? I hope this helps.
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Leftie letter to Zero.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I'm writing to you as a last resort before I sell my newly acquired Zero at a significant loss. That's not just a financial loss, but also at great cost to my valuable time and all the stress and inconvenience my experience with Zero has caused.
I bought my 2014 Zero SR as an ex-demo bike from your dealer in xxxx. It was shipped to me and failed on it's first ride. Investigation, with the assistance of members of the forum, lead me to the conclusion that the bike had an issue before it left the dealership. It seems they've been resetting the BMS in order to get a few more miles out of it before getting error messages. I think the BMS was reset just before the bike was shipped so that there were no errors on delivery, but I got the warning light on my dash on its first run.
Unfortunately I am in poor health, so any problems I encounter are compounded by my lessened ability to deal with them. It has taken a considerable amount of time to diagnose the issue with the bike so far and the current status is that it needs to get back to a dealership. Further diagnosis and warranty work is required.
The nearest dealership is approximately 130 miles from where I live. I don't own a bike trailer and quite frankly, I'm not up to a six hour drive to drop the bike off.
Under the circumstances, are you able to arrange the pickup of my Zero via my local dealer? I've reached the point where I'm disgruntled by the whole experience and I would appreciate Zero's assistance.
Yours faithfully,
Leftie.
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After having a Zero rep tell me, on the phone, that they don't diagnose the bikes, just get a copy of the logs, and the dealer diagnoses/fixes them, I asked the local dealership about this. I was told that it just isn't true, that only Zero interprets the logs, and uses them to instruct the dealers on what to do, if the issue shows in the logs. I don't know if this was a deliberate lie to me by Zero or just a badly-trained Rep, but I'm currently in the last stages of negotiating to sell the SR, taking a Vectrix (a bike I previously thought of as too unreliable) in trade. I hope the deal goes through; if not, I'll get the bike fixed, and sell it ASAP. Having dealt with, first, an apparently crooked dealership, then Zero ignoring me for weeks, then being told a "fib" by them, I want nothing further to do with this company or this motorcycle. I've been riding since 1972, and this is the worst experience I've had with any of the roughly 16 motorcycles I've owned. If the bike cost $5k I'd be annoyed. At the current ridiculous prices, I'm going to tell anyone who asks, that only people who live next to a Zero dealership and who can afford to flush $17k down the toilet without blinking should own a Zero. It would probably also be very helpful if they aren't much interested in riding the bike, just in displaying it as "garage art."
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I hear you Leftie and for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear it has worked out so badly.
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I hear you Leftie and for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear it has worked out so badly.
And I appreciate your assistance and support.
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I'm currently in the last stages of negotiating to sell the SR, taking a Vectrix (a bike I previously thought of as too unreliable) in trade.
Isn't there lemon law where you are? Did you buy this from an authorized Zero dealer? Tell them you want your money back or you will take them to court.
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I'm currently in the last stages of negotiating to sell the SR, taking a Vectrix (a bike I previously thought of as too unreliable) in trade.
Isn't there lemon law where you are? Did you buy this from an authorized Zero dealer? Tell them you want your money back or you will take them to court.
This doesn't seem to be a lemon law type of situation. Basically if he could get it to the dealer, then it would all be sorted out. As we have discussed in other threads, there is an expectation that you can get to a dealer if you have one of these bikes. They are generally very reliable, but every once in a while some bikes need something fixed like a charger.
This may seem like a bigger issue than it is because he has posted updates about it almost daily. Right now his post count is 1.33 per day. But you'll notice that none of those posts say "I brought the bike to the dealer."
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This may seem like a bigger issue than it is because he has posted updates about it almost daily. Right now his post count is 1.33 per day. But you'll notice that none of those posts say "I brought the bike to the dealer."
My thoughts exactly. Some peoples' lives wouldn't be complete if they solved their problems and were left with nothing to gripe about.
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This doesn't seem to be a lemon law type of situation.
There are plain and simple buyer's remorse laws that allow you to return any new motor vehicle within 30 days even if there is nothing wrong with it. If there is a fault any time within warranty, the dealer has three tries or 30 days to fix it or it is also eligible for a return. Coupled with the apparent fact that the dealer/ manufacturer knowingly and repeatedly cleared fault codes and then delivered the bike anyway, this would be a slam dunk for a full refund.
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Doug, Ben, I can see where you're coming from, but...
But, I think Leftie's problem all along has been the issue of getting the bike to the dealer. I think the reason he's gone to such lengths to seek the assistance of this forum is because he really, really didn't want to resort to that.
The guy is in ill health and that changes things. That's my feeling about all of this. I'm not disputing that it became clear some time ago that leftie needed to get his bike to a dealer, it's just that the practicalities of doing that are much more difficult for him to cope with.
I don't know the details, but it's also worth considering that any serious physical illness can have an impact on one's mental health. Life just becomes difficult and some things we take for granted, like picking up the phone and sorting an issue out, become very difficult.
I'm just saying that I think there's more to this than meets the eye. The fact that leftie would rather offload the Zero, no doubt at a considerable financial loss, speaks volumes to me. I think his tolerance levels are much lower than normal.
I know leftie has ignored advice from many of the pillars of this community and perhaps even upset one or two people that have tried to help. I think there's more to the story, that's all.
I don't know if we'll hear any more from Leftie. I just can't help feeling for the guy. Call me soft if you like!
I'm sure the first thing the new owner will do is get the bike sorted and enjoy riding it. I don't think leftie wants anything to do with it. One to chalk down to a bad experience under unfortunate circumstances.
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If those of you asking why I haven't "brought the bike to a dealer" yet can't be bothered to read why, or can't understand the logistics of the dealers being 120+ miles away and me not initially knowing which of them actually do good warranty work (or any warranty work at all), I'll not waste any more time explaining it. Yes, it might be a "slam dunk" to get a refund, *if* Zero or either of the dealers who have seen the logs would confirm the multiple errors and resets, but they seem more inclined to protect the dealership by saying as little as possible. I am going to contact both Zero and the dealership that sold it again before selling the bike, but it seems people here have little real world experience with American car and motorcycle dealerships. As for my posting frequency, I'm usually responding to other posts. I don't think I need to limit that for the benefit of a few fanboys, but I'm pretty much finished with the bike now, so I guess that applies to this site as well. Thanks to the two or three guys who actually helped. To the rest of you, well, I guess I just wish you all the luck with your bikes that I've had with mine. ;-)
Bonkers just slipped in with a post. Gee, thanks for the insinuation about my mental health. What you wrote about me physically is correct. I did, however, "pick up the phone" about this, and Zero's response wasn't "We'll get right on that!" It was "We don't generally deal with customers directly." Anyway, if I do post again here, it will just be to name the dealer who sold me the bike again, if they give me the brush-off, more for the benefit more of future members here than anything else.
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I apologise Leftie for throwing mental health out there. I take an interest in the subject which can lead to the occasional over conjecture. Sometimes I just think too much in the wrong direction.
Do spill the beans on the dodgy dealership though!
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You don't have to hunt around for a different dealer. What dealer sold you the bike? Just call them up and tell them you want your money back. Why should you have to take a bath to try to sell the defective bike they gave you.
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+1 to what sendler is saying. The bike was so obviously not in good condition when it was sold to Leftie. Even without the proof from the logs, anything that breaks down on its first run is not right. I wish I'd thought of sendlers approach myself to be honest. I, like Ben and many others, thought the situation was recoverable. Not now, by the sounds of it.
Yet another case of Zero's customer service failing. A bad dealer set things off but Zero weren't able to be able to actively manage the case. The onus was on Leftie to constantly chase, email, make calls etc. He got upset with that quickly, which is understandable.
I get the impression that Zero rely on peoples goodwill and patience too much. They need to stamp on issues like this much quicker so that all their dirty washing isn't aired in public like this. One way or another that bike is going back to them to get fixed at their expense. Why not nip it in the bud and save everyone a load of hassle and wasted time? It all boils down to poor management.
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No offense meant in my previous post. Just pointing out that this forum can be an echo chamber (which I just contributed to by posting), and this is the latest example of that phenomenon.
I know why you haven't brought it to the dealer, and get why you approached problem solving the way that you did (ie - no big deal on the post count). It's just too bad that getting it to the dealer is so difficult for you, because you would probably be having a blast on your bike if you could get there. Cheers.
I go to the same dealer you are referring to (pretty sure) and they have been great at helping me with anything. It's 50 miles for me to get there, which is a bit of a haul, but manageable.
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I got a PM and so stopped here for what will probably be the last time. The Zero is now sold, and I have a 2009 Leaf cell-converted Vectrix VX-1 that I can actually ride, knock on wood. The dealership I bought the bike from is Elk Grove Powersports in Stockton (I think) Ca. They ended up refunding, at my request, the $387 dealer prep fee and have promised to also refund the $450 freight fee (after I complained to Zero), to make up for my possible shipping costs to have it fixed. (The bike wasn't sold at that point.) The second check hasn't arrived yet. I estimate my loss on the bike, not counting $900+ in sales tax, to be about $3k. Keep in mind when replying that I won't be reading it. I would like to offer another bit or two of advice, though: never expect a vehicle dealership to buy a vehicle back from you unless they are forced to do so by a "Lemon Law," because that just doesn't happen. And, of course, don't buy a Zero unless you live near a dealership that works on them - preferably two, as there is a significant amount of dealer turnover. Tomorrow I install a backrest on the VX-1, while the SR's new owner struggles to arrange to get the bike repaired...