ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: stevenh on May 09, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
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When I got my DSR in late March the belt tension was at around 25kg. I've checked it at around 750Mi this weekend, and it was at just under 45kg. It still seemed to be aligned. I backed off the tension to 25kg again and the belt got quite a bit quieter. Has anyone else seen a belt get tighter over the first miles? Seems very strange to me. I am pretty sure I am measuring it correctly and the belt and pulleys look fine.
Steve
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Having ridden belt-driven Buells for years, it is not unusual for a belt to get tighter as it ages. You didn't say how many miles you've ridden but belts don't age like chains. As they get older, instead of getting looser (like a chain) they get tighter.
This is because the carbon fiber/Kevlar outer belt does not stretch. Instead, as the rubber ages, it swells which reduces the inner circumference of the belt. That reduction in inner circumference is what makes the belt tighter.
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Is there a common mileage point where replacement of the belt is recommended?
I'm sure it's in the manual but I have lost mine :-\
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Do what I did... load the PDF into your phone so it's always handy (even on the road). I sure miss having a PRINTED manual, but I guess I need to get into the 21st century sooner or later.
Anyway, in answer to your question: According to my 2016 manual, the DSR belt should be replaced every 16,000 miles (25,000 km) and the S/SR/DS models should have their belts replaced every 24,000 miles (37,000 km).
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By the way: Go here to download the owner's manual for your bike:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/ (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/)
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Same here. Bought my bike at 500 miles, now at 1,100 I notice it has gotten gradually louder. The belt does feel tight by hand. Measured the tension today for a first time with a tool - it is off the scale. Will need to adjust it down.
When I got my DSR in late March the belt tension was at around 25kg. I've checked it at around 750Mi this weekend, and it was at just under 45kg. It still seemed to be aligned. I backed off the tension to 25kg again and the belt got quite a bit quieter. Has anyone else seen a belt get tighter over the first miles? Seems very strange to me. I am pretty sure I am measuring it correctly and the belt and pulleys look fine.
Steve
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I am not convinced that the $14 Gates belt gauge is all that accurate. My new gauge shows that my belt is too tight (after 9,000 miles) at 50 kg, but when I used the old gauge that I gave my daughter with my 2012 S, that gauge read 30 kg. Not only is the gauge hard to use but it is also hard to read and sure doesn't seem like a very accurate and precision measuring instrument to me. ???
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It's a problem when we don't know which gauge is more accurate... I am getting very consistent readings with the $14 gauge. I did adjust my belt tension this morning - from "off the scale" on the gauge to 30kg. It took about 1/4 turn of the tension bolts to do that. And the belt is quieter than it was before. So I do think it was too tight to begin with. Am I at 30kg now? Who knows - I don't have a good enough feel in my hand for how tight is right (have not worked with belt tensions enough to know what a give tension feels like), so I have to rely on the gauge.
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I did about 25 miles today with the new lower belt tension, and the belt is definitely quieter and with fewer resonance frequencies being felt as the bike accelerates. I might lower the pressure just a bit more to 25kg (currently 30) to see what that does ...
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I ordered a Gates tension tester a few days ago. However, it won't arrive for a week or two...and with Canada Post now on strike, who knows?
So is there some sort of spec which can be used without the tester? (Doesn't seem to be anything in the manual.) I remember on my ancient Honda 250, that a specific deflection (distance) on the belt was supposed to correlate with a specific pressure on the belt. The pressure, of course, was a bit of a guestimate (eg, 20 pounds), but it was better than nothing, and it seemed to work just fine.
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Well, the Krikit tension tester arrived today, and I have to say that I don't entirely trust it (or perhaps the Zero tension tester is a much more precise unit?). Maybe I'm just old-school, but I prefer the method where a certain amount of pressure is applied up and down on the belt, and the resulting distance is measured (like on a motorcycle chain, or like the early belted motorcycles...my old Honda 250 being an example).
Anyways, on the Zero, when I put just 2 or 3 pounds of pressure on the belt (up and down), I get a resulting distance of about 1/2" to 9/16". Does that sound about right?
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I don't even bother with the tension tester anymore. Now all I do is push the belt down with my finger and if it feels like it did when I bought the bike I call it good to go. So far I haven't noticed any changes in belt tension on my bike. :)
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I did a quick measurement just now on mine. If use 5lb weight to press on the belt, it deflects about 1/4" in the same place where my Krikit tool measures 30kg. Deflection of 1/2" or even 9/16, I think is too much for only 2-3lb pressure - seems to me the belt might be lose in your case. I think it is better to measure on the bottom side of the belt with the Krikit tool, because there we can measure in the center of the belt (half-way between the motor and the wheel contact points of the belt), where on the top I think we are a bit off-center because of the belt guard plastics push us a bit towards the motor off-center.
Well, the Krikit tension tester arrived today, and I have to say that I don't entirely trust it (or perhaps the Zero tension tester is a much more precise unit?). Maybe I'm just old-school, but I prefer the method where a certain amount of pressure is applied up and down on the belt, and the resulting distance is measured (like on a motorcycle chain, or like the early belted motorcycles...my old Honda 250 being an example).
Anyways, on the Zero, when I put just 2 or 3 pounds of pressure on the belt (up and down), I get a resulting distance of about 1/2" to 9/16". Does that sound about right?
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I did a quick measurement just now on mine. If use 5lb weight to press on the belt, it deflects about 1/4" in the same place where my Krikit tool measures 30kg.
Well, the Krikit tension tester arrived today, and I have to say that I don't entirely trust it (or perhaps the Zero tension tester is a much more precise unit?). Maybe I'm just old-school, but I prefer the method where a certain amount of pressure is applied up and down on the belt, and the resulting distance is measured (like on a motorcycle chain, or like the early belted motorcycles...my old Honda 250 being an example).
Anyways, on the Zero, when I put just 2 or 3 pounds of pressure on the belt (up and down), I get a resulting distance of about 1/2" to 9/16". Does that sound about right?
Is the 5 pounds just in one direction? If so, that sound similar to mine (I was referring to up and down combined).
I like Richard's method.
It would be good to know what the 20-30 kg's refers to, since it's certainly not related to the force needed to make the krikit click.
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Just in one direction, down on top of the belt. Not too precise either - using a wood stick and a 5lb exercise weight. I marked two notches on the wood stick for weight/no weight relative to the belt guard. Not too precise, but definitely not 1/2" deflection.
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Digging up this thread to add my experience. Just received the Gates Krikit I V - Belt Tension Gauge 91107 (purchased via Amazon / Hires Auto) for $13+pp. Checked out the tension on my 2016 DSR the first time at 3500mi since I bought it new mid-May 2016 with 7mi ODO. I've been frequenting the dealership where I bought it whenever I'm running through town, to say hi, and I've asked a few times if the belt would make more noise / get tighter; the rep (general manager) says that's ridiculous. Well, I checked it today with the gauge and like it says to do in the manual, and it was at 90kg indicated (should be at 20-30kg). Riding the Zero has been getting noisier each week from the drive train and I just now have that gauge and the tools to adjust the tension. I followed the owner's manual instructions and adjusted my belt tension down to the 20-30kg range suggested. I rode it like hell for a few minutes and double checked the axle torque (75lb-ft), which is a good idea because it definitely squeeked a little bit more towards the factory paint mark on the end of that test ride. Seems now to sound a lot less like a screaming pissed off tomcat. Will commute tomorrow and triple-check everything but I'm super glad I did it myself.
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Sounds like the General Manager isn't aware of how belts age. I wasn't aware either until I rode Buells but it does sound counter-intuitive... especially if you're familiar with chain-driven bikes.
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Sounds like the General Manager isn't aware of how belts age. I wasn't aware either until I rode Buells but it does sound counter-intuitive... especially if you're familiar with chain-driven bikes.
Yeah, people don't realize that these belts have kevlar in them which prevents them from stretching. But it also means that as the belt ages and swells (or swells from environmental factors like humidity) the tension on the belt gets tighter. It's one of those counter intuitive things that will just take time for people to learn.
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Seems now to sound a lot less like a screaming pissed off tomcat.
I donno. this sounds cool. LOL
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One quick question since I haven't seen anything in the manual regarding this: When testing the belt tension, is it preferable for the bike to be on the sidestand (with the rear wheel on the ground) or on a track-stand (with the rear wheel suspended off the ground)?
I imagine it is easier to check the wheel alignment (after an adjustment is made) on a track-stand since the bike would be vertical (and not leaned to one side). I'm probably going to buy a track-stand anyway, as it would also make it easier to inspect the belt too.
Thanks in advance,
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...When testing the belt tension, is it preferable for the bike to be on the sidestand (with the rear wheel on the ground) or on a track-stand (with the rear wheel suspended off the ground)?
I did my adjustments kickstand down, and stood the bike up to roll back and forth grabbing brake etc to shake it up between measurements and wrenching procedures. No lift stand to compare to, don't know if it matters.
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One quick question since I haven't seen anything in the manual regarding this: When testing the belt tension, is it preferable for the bike to be on the sidestand (with the rear wheel on the ground) or on a track-stand (with the rear wheel suspended off the ground)?
I imagine it is easier to check the wheel alignment (after an adjustment is made) on a track-stand since the bike would be vertical (and not leaned to one side). I'm probably going to buy a track-stand anyway, as it would also make it easier to inspect the belt too.
Thanks in advance,
Since the motor axle is inline with the pivot point of the swingarm, it doesnt matter.
On most bikes it matters because the output sprocket is not inline with the swingarm.
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I am not convinced that the $14 Gates belt gauge is all that accurate. My new gauge shows that my belt is too tight (after 9,000 miles) at 50 kg, but when I used the old gauge that I gave my daughter with my 2012 S, that gauge read 30 kg. Not only is the gauge hard to use but it is also hard to read and sure doesn't seem like a very accurate and precision measuring instrument to me. ???
I am interested in buying a quality belt tension gauge for my Zero S 2015. Can you tell me the name of your new gauge? I have 5000 miles on my bike and the belt feels tight.
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Since the motor axle is inline with the pivot point of the swingarm, it doesnt matter.
On most bikes it matters because the output sprocket is not inline with the swingarm.
Actually, I was aware of that. My concern is that if the wheel is on the ground, it can't move when the belt tension is being tested, whereas if it were elevated it is free to spin (even if only a minute amount). I imagine that would have an effect on the measured tension.
Thanks,
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Well, the Krikit tension tester arrived today, and I have to say that I don't entirely trust it (or perhaps the Zero tension tester is a much more precise unit?). Maybe I'm just old-school, but I prefer the method where a certain amount of pressure is applied up and down on the belt, and the resulting distance is measured (like on a motorcycle chain, or like the early belted motorcycles...my old Honda 250 being an example).
Anyways, on the Zero, when I put just 2 or 3 pounds of pressure on the belt (up and down), I get a resulting distance of about 1/2" to 9/16". Does that sound about right?
After i got my krikit, i tested making several measurments. The tool itself seems to give the same measure if i measure repeatedly at the same spot. However belt tension seems to vary from time to time, and side to side.
It would seem that the proper thing to do is always check on both top and bottom side of the belt (without moving the wheel/belt/bike) , and do several measurments having moved the rear wheel between. I believe this might be the best practice given any measurment method/equipment.
In my opinion, the correct measurment should be (if possible) when the top and bottom reading is equal. Trying to deduct an average might also be good, however if the deviation is large, i would guess moving the wheel slightly and then trying to do it again would be the best option.
The easiest way to achieve a good readout should be with the rear wheel off ground, however if one is able to get reasonable equal readings on both sides of the belt on ground, I can't see any reason why that reading would not be good enough..
The real question about the krikit (as with any other tool) is whether each gauge measures the same...
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I have owned two Krikit gauges and I got two different readings. In my opinion it is a crappy piece of measuring equipment. So now I don't worry about belt tension, at least not until I replace my rear tire (which will happen soon) and then I will have to start thinking about it again. ;)
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I bought a belt tension gauge from Amazon for $115 (OTC 6673). A little pricey but probable cheaper then taking it to the dealer to adjust the belt tension which seemed very tight. My motto is "you don't always get what you pay for but you always pay for what you get". The rear end of my 2015 Zero S was raised off the floor and the tension was 100 lbs or 45 Kg. Before loosening the axle nut I painted white dots on the frame and nut so that I would know exactly how much to tighten the nut. After loosening the axle nut I turned the bolts 5 flats. My torque wrench only goes to 100 ft lbs and it took more than that to line up the dots. Maybe 110 ft-lbs. After the adjustment the tension was 57 lbs or 26 Kg. I'm about in the middle of the range of 20 to 30 Kg. Have not taking it out for a test drive yet. Looked for torque values in online manual but couldn't find any.
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I believe the torque value for the axle bolt is 75 foot pounds
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Here is the torque table from my FX manual page 5.5
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The FX is a smaller bike than the S. Maybe it has a smaller axle bolt. It took a 1 1/16 socket to tighten the nut. Any idea what the socket size is for your FX?
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I think all model swing arms, axles, are identical.
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If I am not mistaken, the torque value for the axle nut is 72 ft-lb.
I bought a belt tension gauge from Amazon for $115 (OTC 6673). A little pricey but probable cheaper then taking it to the dealer to adjust the belt tension which seemed very tight. My motto is "you don't always get what you pay for but you always pay for what you get". The rear end of my 2015 Zero S was raised off the floor and the tension was 100 lbs or 45 Kg. Before loosening the axle nut I painted white dots on the frame and nut so that I would know exactly how much to tighten the nut. After loosening the axle nut I turned the bolts 5 flats. My torque wrench only goes to 100 ft lbs and it took more than that to line up the dots. Maybe 110 ft-lbs. After the adjustment the tension was 57 lbs or 26 Kg. I'm about in the middle of the range of 20 to 30 Kg. Have not taking it out for a test drive yet. Looked for torque values in online manual but couldn't find any.
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On the topic of torque wrenches, I want to speak up and say that the Precision Instruments torque wrenches I bought (C2FR50F and C2FR100F) are brilliant. You set the torque on the dial, lock it in, and then tighten until it goes "click". Unlike ordinary click-type micrometer torque wrenches which must be turned down and used a few times to loosen them up for real work every time you want an accurate set; The Precision Instruments described here don't have any maintenance like that and are dead simple to use. The downside is only that they are CW not CCW so right-hand thread only.
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Well, I adjusted my belt today for the first time. The $30 track stand I bought from Harbor Freight made it REAL easy (and why does everyone else charge so much for what is essentially a length of steel tube with a couple of wheels attached??). The Kriket is now showing between 20-30, which is exactly what I wanted. Prior to the adjustment is was up to 50-60 and the normally quiet electric "whine" of the motor had gotten noticeably louder. That, to me, indicates there was a definite strain on the bearings.