ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on June 27, 2016, 05:41:01 AM
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I know with my ICE bikes I usually couldn't just swap out the horn... the louder horn usually had to be set up with a relay direct from the battery because the existing circuit didn't provide enough power. Will I have that same issue with the Zero S? The stock horn is really rather embarrassing and (if possible) I'd LIKE to replace it with this:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
If that won't work, then I'd settle for:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
Thanks in advance.
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You will still want a relay for the horn. The contacts in the controls are the same size as all other bikes.
Personally I prefer the hella horns. The air horns have a delay as the compressor spins up.
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Damn. This could be challenge without a wiring diagram... :(
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Okay, I found this amusing.
I'd LIKE to replace it with this:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
If that won't work, then I'd settle for:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
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I just scream, get outta the way unless you want an assfull of Pontiac! Learned it from me father. No additional wiring is needed for this mod.
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Okay, I found this amusing.
I'd LIKE to replace it with this:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
If that won't work, then I'd settle for:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/ear-cannon-air-horn.html)
Damn. That second link was SUPPOSED to be:
http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/fiamm-freeway-blaster-horn.html (http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/for-the-bike/horns/fiamm-freeway-blaster-horn.html)
Sorry 'bout that.
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Have Twin tone air horns mounted in the fairing of my SV650S.
relay and compressor mounted under seat next to battery.
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Yes. The stock horn has a tendency to be ignored by other drivers. I mounted the Hella Supertone on my Zero. The stock horn is also a Hella with connectors the same size as the Supertone. The Supertone is actually two horns that sound at differing frequencies. Some cutting and crimping is needed to get that second horn on. Each Supertone horn is much larger than the stock horn, so it took a little playing around to find a position for both of them that didn't obstruct the steering.
This horn is very audible on the highway, and even more so in the back roads. I am very pleased that I am now getting some freakin attention when someone is about to cut me off.
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Yes. The stock horn has a tendency to be ignored by other drivers. I mounted the Hella Supertone on my Zero. The stock horn is also a Hella with connectors the same size as the Supertone. The Supertone is actually two horns that sound at differing frequencies. Some cutting and crimping is needed to get that second horn on. Each Supertone horn is much larger than the stock horn, so it took a little playing around to find a position for both of them that didn't obstruct the steering.
This horn is very audible on the highway, and even more so in the back roads. I am very pleased that I am now getting some freakin attention when someone is about to cut me off.
Those are the Hella horns I was thinking of. I had them on the SV and the CBR.
They'll be louder if you use a relay. (unless they already used a relay. Zero is an electronics company, so they might have been smart about that...)
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Yes. The stock horn has a tendency to be ignored by other drivers. I mounted the Hella Supertone on my Zero. The stock horn is also a Hella with connectors the same size as the Supertone. The Supertone is actually two horns that sound at differing frequencies. Some cutting and crimping is needed to get that second horn on. Each Supertone horn is much larger than the stock horn, so it took a little playing around to find a position for both of them that didn't obstruct the steering.
This horn is very audible on the highway, and even more so in the back roads. I am very pleased that I am now getting some freakin attention when someone is about to cut me off.
Those are the Hella horns I was thinking of. I had them on the SV and the CBR.
They'll be louder if you use a relay. (unless they already used a relay. Zero is an electronics company, so they might have been smart about that...)
That's what I'm HOPING, but the complete lack of any kind of wiring diagram puts it all in a deep, dark mystery...
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Yes. The stock horn has a tendency to be ignored by other drivers. I mounted the Hella Supertone on my Zero. The stock horn is also a Hella with connectors the same size as the Supertone. The Supertone is actually two horns that sound at differing frequencies. Some cutting and crimping is needed to get that second horn on. Each Supertone horn is much larger than the stock horn, so it took a little playing around to find a position for both of them that didn't obstruct the steering.
This horn is very audible on the highway, and even more so in the back roads. I am very pleased that I am now getting some freakin attention when someone is about to cut me off.
Those are the Hella horns I was thinking of. I had them on the SV and the CBR.
They'll be louder if you use a relay. (unless they already used a relay. Zero is an electronics company, so they might have been smart about that...)
That's what I'm HOPING, but the complete lack of any kind of wiring diagram puts it all in a deep, dark mystery...
I looked through the only wiring diagram I know of (Burtons, found here: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Wiring_Diagram (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Wiring_Diagram) )
but I dont see any relay. only the connector plug.
You could always unplug the controls, and backpin the horn through a ammeter and honk it. that would tell you if its a small relay load, or a large horn load.
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If you wanted to use a relay for the horn I would hook up to the accessories circuit for the power supply for the horn (positaps would help less you bridged your accessories circuit out) as it has a 30amp fuse (at least it does on mine ;) )
Then attach the gate to the stock horn 12v wiring ... not sure if it will make a difference though. There is only one relay on the 2013 S / DS and it is for a blinker.
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I have installed this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It's supposed to draw about 17A, so I used the original horn circuit to trigger the relay (comes with the horn), while the power comes from the
accessory circuit (fuse upgraded to 20A).
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I have installed this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Wow, that's an impressive looking unit. Are you happy with it? Where did you mount it? Which bike?
As an EE, I can't recommend upping a fuse value. Fuses are sized to prevent wires from overheating, which can easily happen if you up the fuse value. A slow-blow fuse can probably survive a short horn burst and still give good protection.
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As an EE, I can't recommend upping a fuse value. Fuses are sized to prevent wires from overheating.
I always take issue when people say this.
A fuse is sized for the load going through it. Wires are sized for that load or larger.
If you're only going to pull a small load, like 4A though something, you run a 5A fuse because anything larger is a fault.. It doesnt matter if the wires can take 20A, because 5A is high.
For example, in any car you will find a 5A fuse for some small thing... but the wires are the same size as the 15A or 20A fuses. Its normally cheaper to run the same size wires.
By the same note, an intermittent load, like the horn, may have undersized wires... thats the problem most motorcycles have.. tiny wires and small contacts in the controls are supposed to power this huge load of a horn. Thats why most motorcycle horns get louder with JUST a relay kit. same horn. If you tried to sustain the load a horn puts on those wires and contacts for a long period of time, they would get warm.
So, look at the wires and all the connectors and then, if its safe.. sure up the fuse. after all, you are changing the load.
In the case of the zero, also look at the max output of the DC-DC converter and be sure you're not exceeding its capabilities... but if not, then up the fuse.
but the fuse is matched to the load and wiring. not just the wiring. It may be perfectly safe to change, if you're changing the load.
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A fuse is sized for the load going through it. Wires are sized for that load or larger.
That's not correct. The job of a fuse is to prevent the wiring from overheating, period. It's okay to UNDERsize a fuse for a lighter load than the wire can handle, but it's never okay to up-size the fuse over the wire's "ampacity".
I'll agree that it MIGHT be okay to up-size the accessory fuse, if the wiring, connectors and DC-DC converter can handle the current, but you've got a lot of experience with vehicles, so you know that most vehicle wiring is done with 16AWG wire. I'll also agree that the "ampacity" of a wire isn't a cut-and-dried thing (a single wire with lots of ventilation can safely carry more current than several wires routed together in a conduit), but generally it's agreed that the safe current-carrying capacity of a 16AWG wire is 15A. Bottom line, if the horn wiring is 16AWG or smaller, which I suspect it is, I wouldn't up that fuse. Period.
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A fuse is sized for the load going through it. Wires are sized for that load or larger.
That's not correct. The job of a fuse is to prevent the wiring from overheating, period. It's okay to UNDERsize a fuse for a lighter load than the wire can handle, but it's never okay to up-size the fuse over the wire's "ampacity".
I didnt say to upsize the fuse beyond the wires rating. I was just stating the fuse is not picked based on the wiring, but rather on the load.
the wiring is then selected for that load too.
Said anotherway for clarity....Fuses are often undersized compared to the wires capacity. Clearly you shouldnt allow a load greater than what the wire can safely handle.
Bottom line, if the horn wiring is 16AWG or smaller, which I suspect it is, I wouldn't up that fuse. Period.
No one is suggesting that.
16ga is too small for almost all automotive/motorcycle horns, including the stock one. Voltage drop is too large.
Thats why we're talking about adding a relay. The stock 16ga wires just trigger the relay. The relay then powers the horn, through appropriate size wiring, directly from the DC-DC converter output... with a larger fuse placed there if needed.
As a side note, I think I mentioned this, but I dont like the air-compressor based horns. I put one on a bike I had, and the delay between button press and the sound was too long.
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Would anyone know how much current the OEM horn draws? That might be a good starting point...
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I have installed this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Wow, that's an impressive looking unit. Are you happy with it? Where did you mount it? Which bike?
As an EE, I can't recommend upping a fuse value. Fuses are sized to prevent wires from overheating, which can easily happen if you up the fuse value. A slow-blow fuse can probably survive a short horn burst and still give good protection.
Yes, the horn is plenty loud. I've installed on the left crash bar - I've got the police style crash bars on my 2014 DS.
I went with the opinion circulating on the forum that DC-DC converter is rated for 30A, so 20A shouldn't be too bad. I've used pretty thick wires, but also yes,
the load going to be in short bursts, wires shouldn't heat up.
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I had the Stebel Nautilus compact on my BMW 1150RT, even before the a-hole side-swiped me in his pickup truck on purpose (admitted in court because he thought being a firefighter he could get away with it). Loved that horn and used it almost every day in D.C.
Now that I'm in Oahu, Hawaii, I've hit the horn once. And promptly felt like I left my pair on the side of the road, along with the lane intruder forcing me to maneuver and not once giving me a second thought. Then, I got the daily Gizmag email talking about the newest Screaming Banshee evolution being 40% smaller and NO RELAY necessary to power the 25A dual-tone horn. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/846667950/shockwave-the-first-smart-motorcycle-warning-syste (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/846667950/shockwave-the-first-smart-motorcycle-warning-syste))
Just ordered it, but you've only got 5 days left so get it soon.
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I'm a new motorcyclist by a couple of months here. The stock horn seems loud enough to get the occasional Pokemon Go player to look up while they're walking blindly into small town traffic. What is a train horn on a motorbike, won't that simply make all drivers near go into a panic?
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A train horn makes people look (again, if not the first time). That's half the battle. I've had drivers drop their coffee, cell phones, and change-lane intentions with a crack of the horn.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Get this: https://screaming-banshee.com
Screaming Bansyshee LLC
bansheehorn@gmail.com
727-744-6808
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Get this: https://screaming-banshee.com
Screaming Bansyshee LLC
bansheehorn@gmail.com
727-744-6808
I like it. Only one question: When they say "connect the red wire to the battery" exactly WHERE would that be on a Zero??
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I like it. Only one question: When they say "connect the red wire to the battery" exactly WHERE would that be on a Zero??
(Taking this seriously, ) the DC converter's positive and negative terminals are on its left side as it's installed on the bike (mounted vertically under the seat, but also under some cable and wire runs). +12V is also available from the top of the fuse box, and ground return for all accessories is a cable crimp join mid-way down the "tank" area on the left side in the lowest wire run.
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Thank you. Guess I'll pull the seat later and take a look around. Thanks!
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Get this: https://screaming-banshee.com
Screaming Bansyshee LLC
bansheehorn@gmail.com
727-744-6808
I picked up the successor to the Screaming Banshee, the Shockwave. I'll try to put it on the bike this weekend.
(Taking this seriously, ) the DC converter's positive and negative terminals are on its left side as it's installed on the bike (mounted vertically under the seat, but also under some cable and wire runs). +12V is also available from the top of the fuse box, and ground return for all accessories is a cable crimp join mid-way down the "tank" area on the left side in the lowest wire run.
You wouldn't happen to have pictures of the terminals on the left side, would you?
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My horn is plenty loud, I haven't had a problem with it. I blasted some jerkoff the other day. He told me that I was #1 immediately.
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Success. The new horn is... a bit bigger (https://goo.gl/photos/gMbyggZrrSnd9csaA) than the old one.
The horn is hooked up and operating at OMG volumes (https://goo.gl/photos/HTx77acfYgvEmLfu7). Like an idiot, I originally hooked it in the accessory circuit. A 25 amp horn isn't going to do much on a 10 amp circuit. I ended up tying into the top of the fuse box. Hopefully it will stay put. I'll check on it over the next week or so, just to make sure it doesn't vibrate loose or something.
Edit: Here is it in place (https://goo.gl/photos/uzTb2swfr9GMtCkc9).
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Success. The new horn is... a bit bigger (https://goo.gl/photos/gMbyggZrrSnd9csaA) than the old one.
The horn is hooked up and operating at OMG volumes (https://goo.gl/photos/HTx77acfYgvEmLfu7). Like an idiot, I originally hooked it in the accessory circuit. A 25 amp horn isn't going to do much on a 10 amp circuit. I ended up tying into the top of the fuse box. Hopefully it will stay put. I'll check on it over the next week or so, just to make sure it doesn't vibrate loose or something.
Edit: Here is it in place (https://goo.gl/photos/uzTb2swfr9GMtCkc9).
I'm rather mechanically inept, so if you could provide some photos on how you hooked it up, I'd greatly appreciate it!
Thanks,
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The next time I'm fiddling with something, I'll take some pictures. But to be honest, working in there is a PITA and I'm not inclined to open it up without an immediate need.
Hopefully this will help: In order to tie into +12v and bypass the fuses, I did the following:
- Remove the seat
- The fuse box is held in place by two bolts. Remove the one on the left. This will allow the box to swing towards you and out from under the frame.
- On top of the fuse box are a bunch of blue connectors. They're the female side of spade connectors, covered by a rubber boot. The male side comes out of the top of the fuse box. Pick a connector and pull the blue boot straight up and off.
- Underneath, you'll see the male connector, with a small hole in the end. If you're daring, you can try to thread your connector wire through this hole. That wasn't working for me, so I stripped off 1.25" or so of the wire from the horn, made a loop, and draped it around the male connector.
- Twist, wrap, tape or solder your loop once it's around the connector so it's reasonably tight.
- Replace the female connector in the blue boot back onto the male connector. Push hard so it goes all the way down and presses the wire loop down against the top of the fuse box.
- TEST YOUR HORN
- Apply electrical tape as you see fit. Replace the bolt in the fuse box. Replace the seat.
- TEST YOUR HORN
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The next time I'm fiddling with something, I'll take some pictures. But to be honest, working in there is a PITA and I'm not inclined to open it up without an immediate need.
Hopefully this will help: In order to tie into +12v and bypass the fuses, I did the following:
- Remove the seat
- The fuse box is held in place by two bolts. Remove the one on the left. This will allow the box to swing towards you and out from under the frame.
- On top of the fuse box are a bunch of blue connectors. They're the female side of spade connectors, covered by a rubber boot. The male side comes out of the top of the fuse box. Pick a connector and pull the blue boot straight up and off.
- Underneath, you'll see the male connector, with a small hole in the end. If you're daring, you can try to thread your connector wire through this hole. That wasn't working for me, so I stripped off 1.25" or so of the wire from the horn, made a loop, and draped it around the male connector.
- Twist, wrap, tape or solder your loop once it's around the connector so it's reasonably tight.
- Replace the female connector in the blue boot back onto the male connector. Push hard so it goes all the way down and presses the wire loop down against the top of the fuse box.
- TEST YOUR HORN
- Apply electrical tape as you see fit. Replace the bolt in the fuse box. Replace the seat.
- TEST YOUR HORN
Nice write-up. I've adapted it into a more general set of instructions on the wiki:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#New_Circuits (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#New_Circuits)