ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: wijnand71 on October 09, 2016, 03:41:42 PM
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Dear community,
I'm looking into new tyres for my 2014DS. Before winter kicks in I want to have new rubbers on the bike. Now the original Kenda tyres (130/80-17 and 100/90-19) are more or les done, and I'm looking into this matter.
Last year I did an investigation for my Honda Insight car and found out that choosing fuel efficiency tyres (http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tire-brand/ecopia) makes a huge differnce concerning roll resistance and range. Where normal tyre's gave me a 1/15 (Liter/kilometer) consumption with these new these tyres its an average of 1/21! So in this extend I'm looking now for the bike. How are experiences here on the forum, anyone suggestions, anyone saw improvements/deterioration after a tyre swap? The dealer suggested to go for the Michelin anakee's, but could't tell anything about rollresistance. I'm riding always on higway/local roads and never go off road. So I don't need much tyre thead in this perspective.
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I have been reading tire manufacturer brochures, advertisements and technical information for many years and not once have I seen any motorcycle tire promoted for its low rolling resistance. In fact it is just the opposite. Most modern motorcycle tires are designed and promoted as having more traction than the previous design, not less rolling resistance.
All I can offer is that in theory I would think that a tire with less tread depth and fewer grooves in the tread would have a lower rolling resistance than one with a more complicated and thicker tread design. As an example, I would think that any off-road tire would have more rolling resistance than a pure street tire. The Michelin Anakee is one of my all time favorite tires. It wears a long time, handles very well when almost worn out and has good traction over a range of surfaces, but it probably isn't the best when it comes to reducing rolling resistance.
Also, increasing the air pressure (up to a point) in a tire will obviously reduce its rolling resistance, but will also make it ride much harder and reducing its traction will also obviously cut traction, which could impact your safety. ???
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The tyres in my Kia Soul EV are designed to minimise rolling resistance while maintaining reasonable levels of grip. It's a car though.
I'm also interested in reducing rolling resistance with my next set of tyres. I'll probably just go for the ones Richard recommends though. Performance and grip in the wet have to be of paramount importance for an all weather commuter bike. The tyres on it now are rubbish for that.
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I switched my 13DS tires to some 85/15s and got some 5% extra efficiency/range. I'm changing my DSR tires to Metzler Tourance Next which are 90/10 and are at least smoother for road feel but I still have the stock front tire so I expect won't get full benefit until that wears enough to justify the swap.
As for tire pressure, 40-45 PSI is reasonably safe and does yield a noticeable improvement (another 5-10%) without being too sensitive to potholes and nails. At least in my experience.
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Great guys, all this feedback. Good to know that 40-45PSI helps range so much. When I started this search I came acros the same Richard mentioned. Of coarse grip is very important in bikes, but technology is also moving forward, also in tyre tech. Looking at the new Michelin Pilot road 4 things can be combined, like good grip and performance. But on motorcycles it seems not to be a hot selling point to have a low rolling resistance.
When I was talking with my dealer about the Michelin anakee's, he ment the 3's wich have a very different thread than the 2's. To wich one do you refer Richard, the 2's? Pitty that the Michelin Pilot road is not available in the size for the DS.
The tyres Brian mentioned have also my interest, also german test are very promising here. Or the Conti Trailattack2..
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I've got the Anakee 3s on my 2015 DS after wearing out the stock Pirellis. I can't say I've done a scientific range comparison between the stock Pirellis and the Anakees. But my gut feel is the range is better.
I like the rain handling of the Anakees. Although the dirt/gravel handling of the Pirellis was better. 99% of my riding is paved roads now. So the Anakees made sense for me.
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I have an Anatee 3 on the rear and a 2 on the front wheel of my F650GS. I can't guess which one would provide better rolling resistance. If I had to pick a couple of tires that probably provide relatively low rolling resistance, based upon their tendency to skid under braking, :o I would go with either the IRC Road Whiners that came stock on the 2012-2014 S models, or the Bridgestone S-11, which has a two-compound tread, with a hard compound in the middle and a softer compound at the sides. The Bridgestone is likely to be much cheaper than the IRC tire. Just check to be sure that it is a tubeless radial tire if your DS tire is of similar construction. ???
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I took am just beginning my tire search for replacement of the 2014 DS tires which came with KENDA K761 Dual Sport TUBE tires. The Michelin Anakee III AT tires look very interesting, but my tires have tubes and I didn't know if I should care that some manufacturers have separate part numbers (or none at all!) for tube tires, vs tubeless tires. For exampkle, I was considering the Pirelli MT60's (since they are on the 2015 DS) but they seem less geared to street, and seem to wear fast and cost more. They also seem to be built TL (tubeless). Also the Pirelli MT-90 looks appealing, but same issues are there. Shinko are recommended on some sites comparing the KENDA K761's, but they seem to have that same tread pattern that seems to be optimized for DS use, but listed more like a TL (Tubeless) tire again should I care about that?
Sometimes I hate having these spooky (Halloween fun pun intended) spoked rims, and other times love and admire their beauty and function-but that means a tire with a tube in it will be what I'll have to deal with.
Prior to reading this post, I was considering another set of KENDA tires, as they both lasted 12K miles and i can still go plenty more on them. But I dislike the way the front tire "cups up" or as many have said "looks like you have a circular saw blade for a front tire" in the way the center of each block cups up in the center like it's from hard breaking over that tire.
The Anakee III's look more like I would want (I bought the DS but do 98% of the riding on the streets of Las Vegas) but they also read like tubeless
In any case, the prices at motorcycle-superstore.com always seem to blow me away, and in this case, every tire named is there and on sale.
-MARK HRIPKO
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I also have the Anakee 3's on my DS. Handleling much better and slightly better range over stock.
And the humming noise from the knobbies is gone.
Have 'm about 3000 km now and show no sign of wear at all..
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When looking at motorcycle tires you want to look at the imprint in the sidewall to see if it will work with tubes. I note that many smaller cross-section tires are now showing tube/tubeless on the sidewall and will work on either type of wheel. Apparently the tires designed just for tubeless fitment may not have quite the correct bead design for tube usage, but I kind of have my doubts about that being critical when using a tube. It is probably more true that a tube-type tire should not be used on a tubeless wheel as I think that tubeless tires have a bead design that better secures the tire to the rim should it loose air pressure, compared with a tube-type tire. ???
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+1 for Michelin Anakee III
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On my F650GS i used Continental Trailattack II's, because I read they were a bit better off-road than the Anakee's. I used them for about 70.000km's, mostly on-road but with the occasional dirt road/trail and they have decent grip on wet tarmac... Any thoughts on these? I'd like to replace my Pirelli's with them when the Pirelli's are done...
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So, the Anakee 3's get quite few nods. Has anyone tried the Avon Trailriders? I've read a fair amount of reviews that suggest the Avons are even better than the Michelins, but I haven't heard anything from Zero riders. I'm close to needing a new set of tires on the '16 DS and have narrowed it down to these two options...
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Got an new bike last week.. I let the dealer change the tires from Kenda to Michelin Anakee 3's.
What a upgrade to the whole bike that is! Specially in wet weather the Kenda's where really slippery and unpredictable how they behave. Now it feels so much more secure and I enjoy now so much more the bike!
Also the humming fibration of the nobles in the steer is gone and it feels so smooth and full of grip. On my commute of 40km I save a average of 3% range with these tires. Bit hard to keep my driving habits the same though, with these rubbers you easily drive faster and more sporty 8)
Really great upgrade and I can recommend these tires to all DS owners. Huge jump forward in driving quality for a reasonable price!
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On a motorcycle aerodynamics are going to be mush more important than rolling resistance.
You could always put the insight tires on the motorcycle. They call that "going to the dark side". ;)
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On a motorcycle aerodynamics are going to be mush more important than rolling resistance.
You could always put the insight tires on the motorcycle. They call that "going to the dark side". ;)
They do (recalling that from the V-Strom community). But 90/10 tires will net you some 5% extra range or so. I've switched my rear out already on the DSR, and both on the DS now - tires take so long to wear out on electric motorcycles when you don't crank hard on the throttle regularly.
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Brian what kind of mileage are you getting and what tire pressure do you use?
I've gotten about 8k on two sets of the cheap Kenda 80/20 stock tires. I can pick up a set on Ebay for about $120 shipped for both tires.
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Brian what kind of mileage are you getting and what tire pressure do you use?
I've gotten about 8k on two sets of the cheap Kenda 80/20 stock tires. I can pick up a set on Ebay for about $120 shipped for both tires.
I haven't finished my second set of tires on either bike. The DS is just shy of 20k miles and the DSR almost to 15k miles. I changed the DS tires at 12 and 13k miles (rear then front) and the DSR rear at 13 with stock front still. Metzler Tourance on the DSR and earlier Tourance now on the DS (I think, will check tomorrow morning).
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Got an new bike last week.. I let the dealer change the tires from Kenda to Michelin Anakee 3's.
What a upgrade to the whole bike that is! Specially in wet weather the Kenda's where really slippery and unpredictable how they behave. Now it feels so much more secure and I enjoy now so much more the bike!
Also the humming fibration of the nobles in the steer is gone and it feels so smooth and full of grip. On my commute of 40km I save a average of 3% range with these tires. Bit hard to keep my driving habits the same though, with these rubbers you easily drive faster and more sporty 8)
Really great upgrade and I can recommend these tires to all DS owners. Huge jump forward in driving quality for a reasonable price!
I'm getting close to 10,000 miles on my '14 DS. The rear is just about done and grip is despicable in the wet. I'll try the Anakee 3's next. Thanks for your post.
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+ 1 !
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If you're going to be buying new tires - the hell with the low rolling BS and supposed to be better mileage, get a tire that will provide the most safety and grip, really how much more mileage could you possible get.
Lose a few pounds or go buy yourself a better windshield if you're looking for a few extra miles or better yet - just slow down another 5 mph.
Merry Xmas - Mike
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If you're going to be buying new tires - the hell with the low rolling BS and supposed to be better mileage, get a tire that will provide the most safety and grip, really how much more mileage could you possible get.
Lose a few pounds or go buy yourself a better windshield if you're looking for a few extra miles or better yet - just slow down another 5 mph.
Don't be such a jerk. Stock DS tires really do take out about 5% of the range of the DS. The DS is rated at 10% less range than S models, partly rolling resistance and partly drag.
What we're discussing is going from a 70/30 or 80/20 tire to 85/15 or 90/10, which still provides a lot of traction and control in the wet but isn't some super-slick track tire.
Changing the tires that way benefits the ride if you don't go offroad that much and would rather have a few miles to play with than have to tuck or whatever. There is such a thing as diminishing returns, but changing your tires is perfectly reasonable in this case.
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If you're going to be buying new tires - the hell with the low rolling BS and supposed to be better mileage, get a tire that will provide the most safety and grip, really how much more mileage could you possible get.
Lose a few pounds or go buy yourself a better windshield if you're looking for a few extra miles or better yet - just slow down another 5 mph.
Don't be such a jerk. Stock DS tires really do take out about 5% of the range of the DS. The DS is rated at 10% less range than S models, partly rolling resistance and partly drag.
What we're discussing is going from a 70/30 or 80/20 tire to 85/15 or 90/10, which still provides a lot of traction and control in the wet but isn't some super-slick track tire.
Changing the tires that way benefits the ride if you don't go offroad that much and would rather have a few miles to play with than have to tuck or whatever. There is such a thing as diminishing returns, but changing your tires is perfectly reasonable in this case.
You got your wires crossed if you think changing a tire is going to give you any substantial increase in mileage, it's a pipe dream to think you'll get 5 extra miles.
Your better off mounting a safe tire on the bike and run some over pressure, you will achieve the same results. Unlike a radial on a passenger car with the lost energy of flexing the sidewall known as hysteresis, with bikes we do not have this loss. Also keep in mind that these so called tires do not have the same wet stopping capability.
The chevy Volt came low resistance tires and it's been proven there was virtually no benefit using the tires, you can just inflate a regular tire and get the same results.
Like I said, buy yourself a good grade tire and slow down 5 mph if you need more mileage.
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If you're going to be buying new tires - the hell with the low rolling BS and supposed to be better mileage, get a tire that will provide the most safety and grip, really how much more mileage could you possible get.
Lose a few pounds or go buy yourself a better windshield if you're looking for a few extra miles or better yet - just slow down another 5 mph.
Don't be such a jerk. Stock DS tires really do take out about 5% of the range of the DS. The DS is rated at 10% less range than S models, partly rolling resistance and partly drag.
What we're discussing is going from a 70/30 or 80/20 tire to 85/15 or 90/10, which still provides a lot of traction and control in the wet but isn't some super-slick track tire.
Changing the tires that way benefits the ride if you don't go offroad that much and would rather have a few miles to play with than have to tuck or whatever. There is such a thing as diminishing returns, but changing your tires is perfectly reasonable in this case.
You got your wires crossed if you think changing a tire is going to give you any substantial increase in mileage, it's a pipe dream to think you'll get 5 extra miles.
Your better off mounting a safe tire on the bike and run some over pressure, you will achieve the same results. Unlike a radial on a passenger car with the lost energy of flexing the sidewall known as hysteresis, with bikes we do not have this loss. Also keep in mind that these so called tires do not have the same wet stopping capability.
The chevy Volt came low resistance tires and it's been proven there was virtually no benefit using the tires, you can just inflate a regular tire and get the same results.
Like I said, buy yourself a good grade tire and slow down 5 mph if you need more mileage.
Motorcycle tires are different from car tires, and motorcycles are different from cars.
While what you're saying is true about tire pressure benefiting your mileage, tire choice does matter in a broad sense. You can't possibly deny that a set of knobby tires that flex substantially as the tire rolls doesn't have an effect on overall efficiency. Would you suggest that putting knobby tires on a sport bike wouldn't reduce its range?
My mileage did go up on my DS when I changed my class of tires. It's hard to assign a number, because repeatability in these measurements is difficult where I live (hills, winds, and temperature all shift), but my general estimates for range at various speeds went up by about 5 miles per charge.
But, mainly, stop talking down to people here because of a study you're interpreting. You're also still characterizing the tire choices presented as "unsafe", when they're really just sensible sport-touring tires with some wet/offroad grip. A normal 90/10 or 85/15 tire suited for highways.
That's all we're talking about. Stop posturing like you know something we don't.
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Brian,
Its hard to assume an mileage advantage numbers because in most cases there is none.
At the risk of being redundant, a low rolling resistance tire is accomplished by designing a tire that does not flex like a radial yet attempt to give the owner a somewhat good ride. Not sure how long you have been riding bikes, but bikes don't have flexing sidewalls like an automotive tire they tend to remain in a cylindrical round shape, so there is very little "recoverable" loss. Regretfully, a lot of electric bike riders are spending their money on tires that do almost nothing except make the tire unsafe because of hard composition, less thread and poor wet weather performance.
Regards!
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You're missing the point arguing about flexing side walls - it's about the knobs.
This does not matter with an ICE engine, or on a car, where the amount of fuel it's burning is relatively flattened. On an electric motorcycle, you're dealing with the amount of energy contained in one third of a gallon of gas, with a power train that will draw more or less exactly as much current as the physical load demands (to reach what the throttle asks for).
Because of this, certain aspects are magnified, and while streamlining is huge, and tire pressure makes a big difference, the tire tread itself is also in there and yields a small benefit. Regarding safety, I'm quite sure that mine and others' tire choices mentioned here are safer than most S/SR riders' tires.
Your idea of "less thread" would make sense if it were somehow on the same scale. I remember noticing when they came out that the 15DS (same for 16DSR) had a stock tire choice that was too knobby for the street, leading test riders to be uncomfortable the way the tread "walked" around a bit. I just mean that backing off of this for a 90/10 tire yields a little mileage benefit, and it's not unsafe at all if your riding really is a 90/10 mix.
Feel free to posture more about this strawman version of this argument, but I think I've clarified my interpretation as well as I can. I want to make sure that people reading this thread don't think that a 90/10 tire is somehow a crazy dangerous choice to make for a DS, which you seem to be intent on convincing someone of.
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I've seriously considered putting 100% street tires on my FX, maybe a set of Avon Roadriders, since I never take it off road. Sportsman, anyone?
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