ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Lenny on October 30, 2016, 08:25:11 PM
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Hey guys,
I’m highly interested in a Zero with fast charging options, as this is the only feature lacking for real touring with an electric motorcycle. The charge tank and those custom solutions with external Elcon-Chargers in cases don’t really attract me, as they are to slow/reducing luggage space. But the DigiNow supercharger looks like a great option. I have a few questions remaining, which I’d like to ask here.
1. How is Zero’s five-year Battery-Warranty affected by the use of non-original chargers? Are they able to see that they were used?
2. Is the supercharger available for European voltage? I’d like to use 3-phase 230V/16A, which results in 11 kW of power.
3. I heard about the Zero Charge-Fuse. Apparently Zero is limiting the charge current to 80A although the fuse is 100A, so there’s still a small safety margin. If I want to reach 11 kW (or more) I’ll need to exceed those 100 A, depending on package voltage. DigiNow differs in between “Accessory Port Kit†(max. 7,6 kW) and “Controller Kit†(max. 12 kW). Do I guess right that the Controller Kit version somehow bypasses the charge fuse so it doesn’t blow up?
4. I guess Terry is the only one being able to answer this question: Is there any experience with faster battery degradation due to heavy use of fast charging? From my point of view there shouldn’t be any problem, 12 kW is less than 1C (for a 4 brick) and those Farasis-Cells are specified for 1C.
Thanks a lot.
Lenny
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1. How is Zero’s five-year Battery-Warranty affected by the use of non-original chargers? Are they able to see that they were used?
There is more than one way to hook up the DigiNow charger. One way is using the aux charge port. If you are using this method it will not affect your warranty. That's what the aux charge port is there for....to allow auxiliary chargers.
2. Is the supercharger available for European voltage? I’d like to use 3-phase 230V/16A, which results in 11 kW of power.
I doubt much if any testing has been done on 3-phase 230V but my understanding is that the DigiNow should accept it.
3. I heard about the Zero Charge-Fuse. Apparently Zero is limiting the charge current to 80A although the fuse is 100A, so there’s still a small safety margin. If I want to reach 11 kW (or more) I’ll need to exceed those 100 A, depending on package voltage. DigiNow differs in between “Accessory Port Kit†(max. 7,6 kW) and “Controller Kit†(max. 12 kW). Do I guess right that the Controller Kit version somehow bypasses the charge fuse so it doesn’t blow up?
I'm not sure where the 80 amp limit originated but I recall reading something about that. Maybe some of the older bikes (particularly older bikes that run at a lower voltage) use an 80 amp charge fuse? I have gone over 80 amps with my DigiNow on my 2014 Zero S. Just keep in mind that when the Zero battery is fully discharged it's going to be somewhere around 90V. With a 100 amp charge fuse that means you max at 9kW (really more like 8kW to leave yourself some margin for spikes). You can crank up the power to 10kW once the battery voltage gets above 100V. You won't be able to hit 11kW until after you are over 110V.
Here is a screen shot of me charging at 10kW but I waited until after the battery voltage was over 100...in this case 109V.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/Screenshot_20160905-065545_zpse4jcrkrm.png) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/Screenshot_20160905-065545_zpse4jcrkrm.png.html)
4. I guess Terry is the only one being able to answer this question: Is there any experience with faster battery degradation due to heavy use of fast charging? From my point of view there shouldn’t be any problem, 12 kW is less than 1C (for a 4 brick) and those Farasis-Cells are specified for 1C.
Heat is the main issue. If you are in a hot climate fast charging on a daily basis in direct sun light isn't going to be good for the battery. But under those conditions you are probably going to see faster degradation even if you are just slow charging. I personally don't worry about it. By the time the warranty is up there will be batteries that will be less expensive and offer much longer range and you will want to upgrade the battery on the bike anyway even if it is still providing more than 80% of original capacity. It's only a matter of time before there are enough Zero's in the world to make battery upgrades more common place and supported by the after market or Zero themselves.
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Unfortunately cant really contribute to the topic but I am asking myself the same questions. Been lurking this forum for quite a while now and found it extremly helpful (modifications, technical explanations etc).
In Europe (at least in my country/region) 11kW AC is basically the minimum the public outlets offer (more common is 22kW, sometimes even 43kW or faster DC solutions). With an integrated quick charging option my zero would substitute even the need for a (electric) car. When the charger is finally released I'll definitly be one of the first to buy it. The charging speeds are really impressive and much more uselful than any other solution.
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Can someone explain what the charging through the controller terminals is? Is it just s direct connection to the battery for DC charging, bypassing any charge fuses, contactors, and other electronics in the bike? Or is it not a direct connection to the battery +/- terminals?
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Can someone explain what the charging through the controller terminals is? Is it just s direct connection to the battery for DC charging, bypassing any charge fuses, contactors, and other electronics in the bike? Or is it not a direct connection to the battery +/- terminals?
It means connecting the charger directly to the same terminals on the motor controller where the battery connects (B+ and B-). This bypasses the charge fuse because of course the battery has to be able to provide more than 100 amps to the motor controller. You still need the contactor to be closed to charge though.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_2025_zpspanz4yru.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_2025_zpspanz4yru.jpg.html)
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Thanks!
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Hi Lenny. Welcome to the forum. Glad you're interested in a Zero and in fast charging. As far as using a supercharger right now, I wouldn't consider that an option in a reasonable time frame. I wish I could say different as I use one and love it, but there are issues that I am aware of with the relationship between the manufacturer and Diginow where some failed chargers early on are not being warrantied and built to be stronger. I don't understand why this can't be solved and this relationship repaired as it's a great product. Many times engineers who can come up with incredible products, unfortunately do not make the best communicators, either with customers or manufacturers, and this is my guess although I might be wrong. Hopefully this can be fixed as fast charging is wonderful.
Although for now I am recommending anyone wanting to charge quickly with a Zero to contact Hollywood Electrics and use their Elcon fast charge kit that can go inside either side or a top case or to get the Zero ChargeTank.
As far as fast charging and battery life. A recent test by Farasis comparing degradation of cells with the control sample being a 1C charge, 1C discharge cycle test, and comparing it to a 2C charge (30 minutes full charge) 2C discharge cycle test. I forget how many cycles, I want to say 500 but can't remember. Anyway the results may surprise you.
The 2C charge/discharge test showed lower degradation than the 1C cells!!!!
The conclusion to this is that charging speed has literally a microscopic influence on cycle life. The largest things affecting cycle life is simply heat, calendar life and time spent at a high state of charge.
Charging fast will create heat, and heat will degrade a battery faster, and this is why we have heard somewhere that fast charging is not good for batteries. Charging fast does increase the voltage potential difference between anode and cathode which also decreases cycle life, but charging fast from 0-50% SOC has a lower potential difference than simply sitting at 100% SOC anyway.
The reason that measured immediately after the tests that the 2C cells had less degradation than the 1C cells is thought to be that the 2C test was completed faster, significantly faster. And so at the end of the 1C test the capacity had shown more degradation simply due to more calendar life. These cells were held at a constant temperature from cooling as a 2C charge/discharge cycle will definitely heat the cells rapidly and that will cause degradation.
But also keep in mind that this degradation is measured to many significant figures. After a year it is likely to measure less than one tenth of one percent perhaps. Never noticeable to the user.
So the fact is if you want maximum battery life, in the summer, try your best to keep it parked out of the sun, and if you want to go to extremes, don't keep it at 100% for long times. But I don't want to get into an argument on this thread. Zero recommends keeping it plugged in at all times when not being ridden, and I will agree that is fine to do, and doing so will maintain that your pack will remain the capacity percentages over the time frame they state and warranty it if it were not to. The reason being, is because the risk of having a small current leak perhaps from corrosion or self discharge from the BMS over many years could perhaps run the battery empty and cause it to become a brick (can't charge it again). The risk of this is higher to Zero than the risk of degradation due to 5 years sitting at a high state of charge (which measurably is very very little anyway).
The best thing you can do with your Zero? Use it every day as hard as you want to! There is very little you can do that will cause any more degradation to the battery than simply just calendar life, especially at a high state of charge. But we are talking many many years before you would ever be able to measure it without highly precise engineering equipment. Really it's not worth worrying about. Just ride it and plug it in every night. If you rode it and it is above 60 or 70 percent, personally I don't bother plugging it in at night, but mostly because I'm lazy. I let Charger out to go pee at 4:30 AM and plug it in then, by 7:30 AM its usually at 90-95% and I unplug and go. But consider me sort of nuts and obsessive. I can't really explain why I do this, and there is no reason for anyone else to do so. Some that understand batteries might kinda get it, but its not worth explaining.
Ok last thing about batteries and charging. The 2C charge shouldn't be sustained all the way to 100% capacity. Solid lithium plating on the anode can occur charging too fat at too high a state of charge, and once that happens it won't ever reverse back into solution. Over a long period of time doing this many times, the solid lithium will choose to place itself on top of already existing solid lithium instead of somewhere else. Much like stalagmites in caverns from dripping water with minerals, or icicles forming from the edge of a roof in winter, dendrites can form to be long enough to pierce and short circuit the cell. Right now Farasis doesn't actually allow over 1C at all. Although I would guess that will change eventually. We might get faster charging capable, but lower than 1C charging at very low temperatures, or at high states of charge. For instance right now technically you can charge at 1C right up to 100%, or when the battery is 1 degree above freezing. I predict one day that will change but maybe not.
Almost all EV car companies allow 2C-3C charging with DC fast chargers up to about 50% and then taper to where above 80% you charge about as fast using a level 2 charger. Also most electric vehicles only charge to 80%. To get them to charge to 100% you have to manually configure it to do so each time you charge. Or unplug after 80% and plug back in to get to 100%. Perhaps one day the onboard charger on a Zero will have multiple setting to allow you to leave the bike plugged in and have it remain at 80%, but if it were to drop to 79% after many weeks of self discharge, will charge itself back to 80% and hold it there. and then at 5 AM or when ever you set with the app that you need it, will charge to 100% by the time you leave for work! How awesome would that be! Wishful thinking, maybe in 5 or 10 years perhaps. Totally not important compared to the work it would take to do that.
Anyway, final concluding thought: Just go buy a 2015 or 2016 Zero, or perhaps in a few weeks a 2017 Zero, ride it hard, ride it often, and if you are someone that likes to travel or go places on a motorcycle that are far away, get some fast chargers from Hollywood Electrics and use them as often as you want and don't worry about anything except going to new places each weekend on your Zero and enjoying the fact you are one of the first to be able to experience this amazing technology. One day all motorcycles will be electric except for those in museums, but until then you can be on the cutting edge and look back one day years from now and be able to tell your friends and kids that you were a pioneer.
Charge on my friends! - Terry
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As far as using a supercharger right now, I wouldn't consider that an option in a reasonable time frame. I wish I could say different as I use one and love it, but there are issues that I am aware of with the relationship between the manufacturer and Diginow where some failed chargers early on are not being warrantied and built to be stronger. I don't understand why this can't be solved and this relationship repaired as it's a great product. Many times engineers who can come up with incredible products, unfortunately do not make the best communicators, either with customers or manufacturers, and this is my guess although I might be wrong. Hopefully this can be fixed as fast charging is wonderful.
If this worked out how I think it did, it's certainly disheartening for me. I'll try to contribute what I can to improving the state of the art at least. I'm been planning a personal trip with demonstration aspects to normalize electric motorcycle travel, but getting everything to come together is not easy. I think the Supercharger is quite viable if it has the right quality control and assurance (testing and practices) around it, and we're just experiencing some nasty bumps. Eventually the QC and QA will be commoditized and embedded into it or a follow-on product and we'll take this for granted. I know I've glimpsed it on my few full-day Supercharging rides, like I can see over a hill to the next horizon. (Okay, I'll cut the poetry...)
As far as fast charging and battery life. A recent test by Farasis comparing degradation of cells with the control sample being a 1C charge, 1C discharge cycle test, and comparing it to a 2C charge (30 minutes full charge) 2C discharge cycle test. I forget how many cycles, I want to say 500 but can't remember. Anyway the results may surprise you.
The 2C charge/discharge test showed lower degradation than the 1C cells!!!!
The conclusion to this is that charging speed has literally a microscopic influence on cycle life. The largest things affecting cycle life is simply heat, calendar life and time spent at a high state of charge.
So the fact is if you want maximum battery life, in the summer, try your best to keep it parked out of the sun, and if you want to go to extremes, don't keep it at 100% for long times.
Thanks for sharing what must be interesting test results; this is great food for thought and probably shows that a little effort at heat management and software-level configuration might go a long way.
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Hey people,
first of all I have to say that I totally agree with @madcow. This forum is just awesome with all these people pushing forward electric mobility together. I have also been reading for a while and I hope to be able to contribute to your work soon. 11 or 22 kW is the standard in Germany (where I am from), it seems to be pretty much the same in all Europe, although connectors sometimes differ.
Special thanks to @Terry for the huge and very interesting post, your contribution to the community is really great. Sad to hear that the supercharger might not be available as desired. Concerning the charge rates I wasn’t primarily concerned about the cells, as I trust Farasis to be able to handle more than 1C easily. My concern is still more about the Zero Warranty, if the BMS or whatever logs show charging speeds higher than archivable with original Zero accessories.
One more question on the current running through the charge fuse. I guess the on-board charger current is also running through it, so I have to consider its ~13 amps in addition to the chargers connected to the auxiliary charge port, right?
I saw pics pics from Terry out of the app showing 14kW charge power, so I guess although the supercharger is connected directly to the motor controller the app reports not just the charging current running through the fuse but also the total power reported by the BMS, is that correct?
What I found out in the meantime is that Zero actually officially supports charging up to 7.8 kW when using the ChargeTank with four QuickChargers, as mentioned in the manual, see the picture attached.
Thanks and a nice weekend to all of you,
Lenny
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Special thanks to @Terry for the huge and very interesting post, your contribution to the community is really great. Sad to hear that the supercharger might not be available as desired. Concerning the charge rates I wasn’t primarily concerned about the cells, as I trust Farasis to be able to handle more than 1C easily. My concern is still more about the Zero Warranty, if the BMS or whatever logs show charging speeds higher than archivable with original Zero accessories.
There's something to work out there, but it seems surmountable from my perspective. It's regrettable that this is all down to integration and control systems (receiving and responding to the right signals reliably, and structuring the safeguards robustly, and minimizing the development and vendor assembly costs) but that does mean the core hardware and concept works.
One more question on the current running through the charge fuse. I guess the on-board charger current is also running through it, so I have to consider its ~13 amps in addition to the chargers connected to the auxiliary charge port, right?
No, the onboard charger is not related to or disabled by the auxiliary charge connection, which is important because if you blow that fuse it's important to be able to charge at all until it's replaced.
I saw pics pics from Terry out of the app showing 14kW charge power, so I guess although the supercharger is connected directly to the motor controller the app reports not just the charging current running through the fuse but also the total power reported by the BMS, is that correct?
Yes, using the controller connection bypasses the auxiliary charging port limitations; one might charge both through the port and the controller up to 1C limit for the battery you have installed, which for Terry's (2014SR) Zero with a Power Tank is ~14kW, though I believe the nominal capacity 12.5kWh is what determines what 1C is for any continuous charging interval. I'm guessing an interval of 10 minutes is safe/wise but no more than 1 hour for sure, and having the contactor open up on you in the middle of a high power charge like that is potentially dangerous so keep a safety margin. For what it's worth, I've sustained 11kW charging rate on my 2016 DSR without Power Tank where the nominal 1C rate is presumably 11.4kW. But I would not want to get closer to that value than I have so far.
What I found out in the meantime is that Zero actually officially supports charging up to 7.8 kW when using the ChargeTank with four QuickChargers, as mentioned in the manual, see the picture attached.
Yes, and Zero arrives at that figure by adding up all of their officially supported charging sources and also using the limit on their officially sanctioned auxiliary charging port. I'm glad they published the Charge Tank manual; it lends a little more official depth to these discussions.
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Terry, are you saying Diginow has stopped making/shipping chargers because of problems?
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Terry, are you saying Diginow has stopped making/shipping chargers because of problems?
I have been told they aren't taking any new orders at this time. If you are looking for a charging solution I would contact Hollywood Electrics and perhaps they have further information.
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Well, I ordered one 4 months ago, so wondering are they still making them or is something wrong they stopped shipping any? I could get a refund and get elcons, but it's be nice to know the status of diginow
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Well, I ordered one 4 months ago, so wondering are they still making them or is something wrong they stopped shipping any? I could get a refund and get elcons, but it's be nice to know the status of diginow
Apparently my June 20th 2016 order will be delivered this tax season (USA), or not:
"...at this point we will either be getting you a refund, or a highly reliable charger, which does qualify you for the tax rebate"
Source: Brandon / Diginow on October 22nd 2016
My advice would be to contact your dealer with any questions about a refund or order fulfillment.
Me? I'll start the bidding at $2000 plus cost to take over my unfulfilled June 20th 2016 order of a Supercharger deluxe package.
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Just to fill you in a bit more. EMW (electric motorwerks) has been avoiding our contact attempts for over a month now. They have a lot of our money and seem to have no intent to respond to us in any way.
I have heard from other people in the industry that this may be common place for them. And that some people are leaving the company because of this and similar behavior by the owners.
I really had high hopes for working with them, however it seems they were just out to take a lot of my companies money and pretty much all of my savings. I have put everything I had into this, and now that it has been their turn to deliver they have pulled several dirty tricks.
I have covered for EMWs mistakes a lot over the past year because I wanted to believe they could handle manufacturing the super charger for us, and because I thought they were good people. It really hurts my feelings that they would take advantage of me this way when all I want is to advance our industry.
I am a very trusting and honest person, and I will always give people more than one chance, some times too many more chances. It seems I protected EMW for too long taking the heat as digiNow to prevent them from getting a bad name. However it looks like that is exactly what they were counting on.
This was my first experience manufacturing a product at scale and it looks like I made a very bad choice choosing EMW, but I have learned a lot and will never ever be taken advantage of this way again. The world looks a lot less sunshiney knowing there are businesses out there like EMW that seek to take advantage of young entrepreneurs like me and my partners.
If anyone here has recommendations for the appropriate measures to take or can offer assistance I would appreciate your messages. Currently we are discussing going to the federal trade commission, and considering counsel for what I have been told will likely end up in a legal battle. Very depressing :(
The other side of this is that we do have a very small number of Super Charger V1 units left, @erik, im setting yours up tomorrow.
Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
My apologies that I have not been more transparent about the issues we were having with EMW, I did not want to speak poorly of them and felt that it was my fault for choosing them. The combination of these lead me to not be as open with all of you as I could have. I promise not to let anything like that happen again.
-EC
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Just to fill you in a bit more. EMW (electric motorwerks) has been avoiding our contact attempts for over a month now. They have a lot of our money and seem to have no intent to respond to us in any way.
I have heard from other people in the industry that this may be common place for them. And that some people are leaving the company because of this and similar behavior by the owners.
I really had high hopes for working with them, however it seems they were just out to take a lot of my companies money and pretty much all of my savings. I have put everything I had into this, and now that it has been their turn to deliver they have pulled several dirty tricks.
I have covered for EMWs mistakes a lot over the past year because I wanted to believe they could handle manufacturing the super charger for us, and because I thought they were good people. It really hurts my feelings that they would take advantage of me this way when all I want is to advance our industry.
I am a very trusting and honest person, and I will always give people more than one chance, some times too many more chances. It seems I protected EMW for too long taking the heat as digiNow to prevent them from getting a bad name. However it looks like that is exactly what they were counting on.
This was my first experience manufacturing a product at scale and it looks like I made a very bad choice choosing EMW, but I have learned a lot and will never ever be taken advantage of this way again. The world looks a lot less sunshiney knowing there are businesses out there like EMW that seek to take advantage of young entrepreneurs like me and my partners.
If anyone here has recommendations for the appropriate measures to take or can offer assistance I would appreciate your messages. Currently we are discussing going to the federal trade commission, and considering counsel for what I have been told will likely end up in a legal battle. Very depressing :(
The other side of this is that we do have a very small number of Super Charger V1 units left, @erik, im setting yours up tomorrow.
Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
My apologies that I have not been more transparent about the issues we were having with EMW, I did not want to speak poorly of them and felt that it was my fault for choosing them. The combination of these lead me to not be as open with all of you as I could have. I promise not to let anything like that happen again.
-EC
Wow. What a news day! I'm not sure which is a bigger deal....new controllers for the 2017 Zero lineup or a Super Charger V2?!?!? The only thing more exciting would have been the announcement of a partnership that put DigiNow Super Chargers in 2017 Zero's as a factory option ;D Maybe next year ;)
I think just about everyone is rooting for the SC business to really take off...I know I am. I look forward to the day when there are cost effective robust fast charging solutions for any budget. Let's hope the the switch to the new manufacturer helps to make exactly that happen! I can't wait to find out more details about the SC V2!!
Also, it's really unfortunate to hear about EMW. Good to know before I put down any money on a Juice Box. I hope everything works out for the better and they either give your money back or they deliver the quality built product you paid for.....emphasis on quality.
EC, I think covering for EMW has left you in hiding while you were trying to cover for them. Welcome back to the forums!
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Just to fill you in a bit more. EMW (electric motorwerks) has been avoiding our contact attempts for over a month now. They have a lot of our money and seem to have no intent to respond to us in any way.
I have heard from other people in the industry that this may be common place for them. And that some people are leaving the company because of this and similar behavior by the owners.
I really had high hopes for working with them, however it seems they were just out to take a lot of my companies money and pretty much all of my savings. I have put everything I had into this, and now that it has been their turn to deliver they have pulled several dirty tricks.
I have covered for EMWs mistakes a lot over the past year because I wanted to believe they could handle manufacturing the super charger for us, and because I thought they were good people. It really hurts my feelings that they would take advantage of me this way when all I want is to advance our industry.
I am a very trusting and honest person, and I will always give people more than one chance, some times too many more chances. It seems I protected EMW for too long taking the heat as digiNow to prevent them from getting a bad name. However it looks like that is exactly what they were counting on.
This was my first experience manufacturing a product at scale and it looks like I made a very bad choice choosing EMW, but I have learned a lot and will never ever be taken advantage of this way again. The world looks a lot less sunshiney knowing there are businesses out there like EMW that seek to take advantage of young entrepreneurs like me and my partners.
If anyone here has recommendations for the appropriate measures to take or can offer assistance I would appreciate your messages. Currently we are discussing going to the federal trade commission, and considering counsel for what I have been told will likely end up in a legal battle. Very depressing :(
The other side of this is that we do have a very small number of Super Charger V1 units left, @erik, im setting yours up tomorrow.
Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
My apologies that I have not been more transparent about the issues we were having with EMW, I did not want to speak poorly of them and felt that it was my fault for choosing them. The combination of these lead me to not be as open with all of you as I could have. I promise not to let anything like that happen again.
-EC
Having been through this myself... sorry. it sucks.
Couple things to keep in mind.. be careful what you say online right now... Your emotions will get high at times, but you cant say what you want... even if its true.
I learned you always have to keep on top of your suppliers, just like you keep track of a teen working at a store... even the best workers need constant supervision. Sometimes they mean well, but dont always know they are making choices that are not theirs to make.
on a V2 supercharger project.. I didnt see V1 internals obviously, but since its EMW I assumed it used IGBTs... if you are designing a new setup, swapping to a modern SiC power mosfet and running it at high frequency will cut losses and your inductor size.. hopefully to the point you can fit the whole thing in place of the stock charger. This means you can keep storage, or buy it even if you have a powertank... and the powertank would be even better as it would allow higher rate charging.
of course you could be doing that already, and I just dont know it. You guys are not dumb. lol.
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And don't just jump into going the legal route. Lawyers tend to charge $350 an hour in California and they seem to take a very long time to really accomplish anything. Sometimes getting lawyers involved, which you have to do if you decide to go to court, ends up costing more than any reward - and that assumes that you win your case. It is a tough world out there in the manufacturing industry. And the smaller and less well financed you are the tougher it is. :( But whatever you decide to do Electric Cowboy, best of luck in your endeavor! :)
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Thanks for speaking up! I will agree with the comments to be careful about what you state online, although what you've said so far is sufficiently vague.
Regarding trust, the best solution is to have ironclad contracts, and that is where to spend money on the right lawyer; someone experienced in your specific field who can quickly craft contracts tailored for your needs that covers all eventualities. That said, have someone review what agreements you have in place before taking any action or claiming anything concrete in public or online.
I, too, have been hamstrung discussing the process here, and am glad despite the setbacks that you've found a partner that should be easier to work with. I think those with first-gen Superchargers will need to collaborate if we need to keep this equipment running reliably.
At the very least, I feel like what's been accomplished so far is more than sufficient to convince the right angel investor to fund a second generation. I don't have such contacts directly, but can ask around to see who might be available.
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Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
My apologies that I have not been more transparent about the issues we were having with EMW, I did not want to speak poorly of them and felt that it was my fault for choosing them. The combination of these lead me to not be as open with all of you as I could have. I promise not to let anything like that happen again.
-EC
Very sorry to hear EC. Not what you or the community deserve. Highly unlikely that there was any reasonable way to know that going in.
Looking forward to V2 details, and big props for continuing to push the technology forward.
As far as fast charging and battery life. A recent test by Farasis comparing degradation of cells with the control sample being a 1C charge, 1C discharge cycle test, and comparing it to a 2C charge (30 minutes full charge) 2C discharge cycle test. I forget how many cycles, I want to say 500 but can't remember. Anyway the results may surprise you.
The 2C charge/discharge test showed lower degradation than the 1C cells!!!!
Interesting. Did Farasis publicly publish these results anywhere?
Yes, using the controller connection bypasses the auxiliary charging port limitations; one might charge both through the port and the controller up to 1C limit for the battery you have installed, which for Terry's (2014SR) Zero with a Power Tank is ~14kW, though I believe the nominal capacity 12.5kWh is what determines what 1C is for any continuous charging interval. I'm guessing an interval of 10 minutes is safe/wise but no more than 1 hour for sure, and having the contactor open up on you in the middle of a high power charge like that is potentially dangerous so keep a safety margin. For what it's worth, I've sustained 11kW charging rate on my 2016 DSR without Power Tank where the nominal 1C rate is presumably 11.4kW. But I would not want to get closer to that value than I have so far.
The C rating is current relative to the amp-hour rating.
Terry's 2015 SR w/ Power Tank is nominally rated at 133 Ah. 1C means that it can charge at up to 133A; at 10% actual SOC (3.4 volts per cell) that is 12.7 kW, at 95% SOC (4.1 volts per cell) that is 15.3 kW. These are DC power ratings, AC power will be 10 to 20% higher.
Edit: showing work
3.4 volts per cell * 28 cells in series * 133 A = 12.7 kW
4.1 volts per cell * 28 cells in series * 133 A = 15.3 kW
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Yes, using the controller connection bypasses the auxiliary charging port limitations; one might charge both through the port and the controller up to 1C limit for the battery you have installed, which for Terry's (2014SR) Zero with a Power Tank is ~14kW, though I believe the nominal capacity 12.5kWh is what determines what 1C is for any continuous charging interval. I'm guessing an interval of 10 minutes is safe/wise but no more than 1 hour for sure, and having the contactor open up on you in the middle of a high power charge like that is potentially dangerous so keep a safety margin. For what it's worth, I've sustained 11kW charging rate on my 2016 DSR without Power Tank where the nominal 1C rate is presumably 11.4kW. But I would not want to get closer to that value than I have so far.
The C rating is current relative to the amp-hour rating.
Terry's 2015 SR w/ Power Tank is nominally rated at 133 Ah. 1C means that it can charge at up to 133A; at 10% actual SOC (3.4 volts per cell) that is 12.7 kW, at 95% SOC (4.1 volts per cell) that is 15.3 kW. These are DC power ratings, AC power will be 10 to 20% higher.
That is the clearest explanation of the outcome of C rate limits I have heard so far, thank you. I'll incorporate this into the wiki.
The Zero battery contactor limit must be set/sensed as DC current, then, yes?
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Just to fill you in a bit more. EMW (electric motorwerks) has been avoiding our contact attempts for over a month now. They have a lot of our money and seem to have no intent to respond to us in any way.
I have heard from other people in the industry that this may be common place for them. And that some people are leaving the company because of this and similar behavior by the owners.
I really had high hopes for working with them, however it seems they were just out to take a lot of my companies money and pretty much all of my savings. I have put everything I had into this, and now that it has been their turn to deliver they have pulled several dirty tricks.
I have covered for EMWs mistakes a lot over the past year because I wanted to believe they could handle manufacturing the super charger for us, and because I thought they were good people. It really hurts my feelings that they would take advantage of me this way when all I want is to advance our industry.
I am a very trusting and honest person, and I will always give people more than one chance, some times too many more chances. It seems I protected EMW for too long taking the heat as digiNow to prevent them from getting a bad name. However it looks like that is exactly what they were counting on.
This was my first experience manufacturing a product at scale and it looks like I made a very bad choice choosing EMW, but I have learned a lot and will never ever be taken advantage of this way again. The world looks a lot less sunshiney knowing there are businesses out there like EMW that seek to take advantage of young entrepreneurs like me and my partners.
If anyone here has recommendations for the appropriate measures to take or can offer assistance I would appreciate your messages. Currently we are discussing going to the federal trade commission, and considering counsel for what I have been told will likely end up in a legal battle. Very depressing :(
The other side of this is that we do have a very small number of Super Charger V1 units left, @erik, im setting yours up tomorrow.
Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
My apologies that I have not been more transparent about the issues we were having with EMW, I did not want to speak poorly of them and felt that it was my fault for choosing them. The combination of these lead me to not be as open with all of you as I could have. I promise not to let anything like that happen again.
-EC
I'm very sorry for what you experienced, this is really bad. As I'm not living in the states, I can't give any advice how to handle this legally, but at least I want to thank you for not giving up and already presenting a solution. Awesome! I'm looking forward to the presentation of the supercharger V2 next week, you'll have an order from Germany for sure if the specs don't vary from those of V1. Most important thing for us would still be 230V/3-phase AC input.
Thanks a lot for your great work!
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Can't add anything to the messages above except my best wishes.
I know this message is late for the party but there's some things that I can't keep for myself;
- For the power tank owners the power tank dimensions aren't a limiting factor since it will probably mounted in a top case anyway. I'm guessing a some people would gladly accept a bit larger charger for more powah.
- Please, pretty please, DC(either ChaDeMo or CCS) intake support would be so cool!
If you'd manage to pull that off I will personally fly across the Atlantic to Cal with a suitcase full of stroopwafels (http://www.snackish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/how-to-eat-a-stroopwafel.jpg) for you to come pick it up.
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@Erasmo, I'll sponsor the stroopwafels. And maybe some bitterballen, too.
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Can't add anything to the messages above except my best wishes.
I know this message is late for the party but there's some things that I can't keep for myself;
- For the power tank owners the power tank dimensions aren't a limiting factor since it will probably mounted in a top case anyway. I'm guessing a some people would gladly accept a bit larger charger for more powah.
- Please, pretty please, DC(either ChaDeMo or CCS) intake support would be so cool!
If you'd manage to pull that off I will personally fly across the Atlantic to Cal with a suitcase full of stroopwafels (http://www.snackish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/how-to-eat-a-stroopwafel.jpg) for you to come pick it up.
If a Chademo inlet was supported you wouldn't need an onboard charger anyway as they provide DC current that would go direct to the Zero battery.
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Erasmo,
Talk to Tony Williams at Quick Charge Power about CHAdeMO for Zero. It has been on his to-do list for awhile. He has built CHAdeMO systems for a few electric cars and was going to build one for Zero motorcycles.
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I've emailed Tony and his response was that he should have something out next year!
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Erasmo,
Talk to Tony Williams at Quick Charge Power about CHAdeMO for Zero. It has been on his to-do list for awhile. He has built CHAdeMO systems for a few electric cars and was going to build one for Zero motorcycles.
I have a semi-working prototype ChaDeMo top case from EVTV, but we have 11-22kW 3 phase charging stations on about every street corner and most places that offer DC charging even have 43kW.
So AC would cover all my charging needs in the city and for destination charging and a lot of motorway charging.
But if DC is available at the location you might even be able to charge even faster than the charger can convert, because it only has to signal the desired Voltage and Amperage to the streetside charger and act as a pass-through, thus creating a lot less heat.
TL;DR AC would be good enough but DC support would be the cherry on top.
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I am thinking one potential future of DC charging for Zero will be to use the DC fast chargers as a 300 volt DC bus that goes into the onboard chargers you carry which will get smaller and more powerful over time and so you can eventually get the power of what I used to get plugging into 4 J plugs at the same time, from a single connection.
While there is some hope that both SAE Combo and CHAdeMO will enforce their 50-500 volt specification, I find it highly unlikely as there isn't any other EV that needs it except us and Brammo. Almost every other one is in the 320-410 volt range.
So simple economics are going to dictate lots of installations. For instance about 150 SAE DC Combo chargers just got installed stretching from Canada to Mexico along Interstate 5 and Hwy 101 every 25-50 miles. These units are extremely compact. However the spec sheet of these chargers shows the DC output spec to be 300-450 volts.
So the likelihood of the DC charging industry ever enforcing going down to 100 volts is probably not going to ever happen. In fact it's moving up to 1000 volts on the high end is last I heard.
What Zero needs is their own development, or the aftermarket to come up with small, lightweight, inexpensive chargers we can carry with us and stack in parallel. So we can use 4 J plugs next to each other to charge at 24 kW, or to use a DC fast charger to get 24 kW from one source.
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I am thinking one potential future of DC charging for Zero will be to use the DC fast chargers as a 300 volt DC bus that goes into the onboard chargers you carry which will get smaller and more powerful over time and so you can eventually get the power of what I used to get plugging into 4 J plugs at the same time, from a single connection.
While there is some hope that both SAE Combo and CHAdeMO will enforce their 50-500 volt specification, I find it highly unlikely as there isn't any other EV that needs it except us and Brammo. Almost every other one is in the 320-410 volt range.
So simple economics are going to dictate lots of installations. For instance about 150 SAE DC Combo chargers just got installed stretching from Canada to Mexico along Interstate 5 and Hwy 101 every 25-50 miles. These units are extremely compact. However the spec sheet of these chargers shows the DC output spec to be 300-450 volts.
So the likelihood of the DC charging industry ever enforcing going down to 100 volts is probably not going to ever happen. In fact it's moving up to 1000 volts on the high end is last I heard.
What Zero needs is their own development, or the aftermarket to come up with small, lightweight, inexpensive chargers we can carry with us and stack in parallel. So we can use 4 J plugs next to each other to charge at 24 kW, or to use a DC fast charger to get 24 kW from one source.
I totally agree with Terry at his point. I checked the specs of the DC fast chargers which are currently put up in Germany/Europe (i.e. ABB). None of these supported voltage below 150V, because there's basically no one needing it. I'm not expecting this to change, so we should look out for other solutions.
If you look at Tesla, they are currently sending 300A over a Type2 connector to archive 120 kW of charging power. 300A is a lot for a small, detachable connector. Even the new DC standard CCS has a max. amperage spec of 300A, they are going to archive higher charging power with higher voltage. Although I usually don't care much about announcements, Porsche said they will be going to an 800V HV system on their Mission E. If we want really fast charging for our cars in the future, this will be inevitable.
As we have way smaller batteries compared to cars and usually more time when riding the bike, a solution like Remmies FlatpackS "supercharger" seems sufficient. And it shows the power density possible today, although it's not even optimized yet. Active cooling by fans shouldn't be an issue to worry about. With a little rearrangement Zero should be able to mount a 12-20 kW AC charger into the bike even together with a power tank. This would allow quite fast charging already.
Furthermore there are way more Type2 11/22kW charging ports (at least ~5000) in Germany than DC chargers (maybe 400).
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As we have way smaller batteries compared to cars and usually more time when riding the bike, a solution like Remmies FlatpackS "supercharger" seems sufficient. And it shows the power density possible today, although it's not even optimized yet. Active cooling by fans shouldn't be an issue to worry about. With a little rearrangement Zero should be able to mount a 12-20 kW AC charger into the bike even together with a power tank. This would allow quite fast charging already.
Everything you've said was sensible except for this paragraph. Remmies flatpack charger gives up a lot of reliability and robustness for what it accomplishes, and you're overestimating what can fit into the tank area and dissipate heat reasonably well. I'm sure we're going to see new products at that spec but it's not going to assemble into a nice worry free configuration without a lot of money spent.
We'd be okay with a bigger tank, of course, but then you'd be raising the dash and making an entire cockpit for the bike, and suddenly just cramming more equipment there turns into vehicle redesign.
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I am thinking one potential future of DC charging for Zero will be to use the DC fast chargers as a 300 volt DC bus that goes into the onboard chargers you carry which will get smaller and more powerful over time and so you can eventually get the power of what I used to get plugging into 4 J plugs at the same time, from a single connection.
While there is some hope that both SAE Combo and CHAdeMO will enforce their 50-500 volt specification, I find it highly unlikely as there isn't any other EV that needs it except us and Brammo. Almost every other one is in the 320-410 volt range.
So simple economics are going to dictate lots of installations. For instance about 150 SAE DC Combo chargers just got installed stretching from Canada to Mexico along Interstate 5 and Hwy 101 every 25-50 miles. These units are extremely compact. However the spec sheet of these chargers shows the DC output spec to be 300-450 volts.
So the likelihood of the DC charging industry ever enforcing going down to 100 volts is probably not going to ever happen. In fact it's moving up to 1000 volts on the high end is last I heard.
What Zero needs is their own development, or the aftermarket to come up with small, lightweight, inexpensive chargers we can carry with us and stack in parallel. So we can use 4 J plugs next to each other to charge at 24 kW, or to use a DC fast charger to get 24 kW from one source.
I totally agree with Terry at his point. I checked the specs of the DC fast chargers which are currently put up in Germany/Europe (i.e. ABB). None of these supported voltage below 150V, because there's basically no one needing it. I'm not expecting this to change, so we should look out for other solutions.
If you look at Tesla, they are currently sending 300A over a Type2 connector to archive 120 kW of charging power. 300A is a lot for a small, detachable connector. Even the new DC standard CCS has a max. amperage spec of 300A, they are going to archive higher charging power with higher voltage. Although I usually don't care much about announcements, Porsche said they will be going to an 800V HV system on their Mission E. If we want really fast charging for our cars in the future, this will be inevitable.
As we have way smaller batteries compared to cars and usually more time when riding the bike, a solution like Remmies FlatpackS "supercharger" seems sufficient. And it shows the power density possible today, although it's not even optimized yet. Active cooling by fans shouldn't be an issue to worry about. With a little rearrangement Zero should be able to mount a 12-20 kW AC charger into the bike even together with a power tank. This would allow quite fast charging already.
Furthermore there are way more Type2 11/22kW charging ports (at least ~5000) in Germany than DC chargers (maybe 400).
Are you talking about the Terra's? All that I have seen are 50-500V.
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Super charger V2 details and specs along with full testing data will be released within 7 days. After that we will have detailed info on the dates for product arrival and will have a policy of full transparency. So far the V2 and manufacturer seem to be reliable and quality driven as well as able to supply our orders, which EMW was not able to do. Depending on the build a customer wants we currently should have enough to deliver 10 V2 chargers. With another 20 on the way, dates will be openly published and I will not be covering for anyone this time.
Are there any updates on this?
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we have 15 units in stock and are testing mounting and cooling now.
the higger power chargers require liquid cooling. if that isnt ready by the time i am back from japan we will start shipping smaller charges which can upgrade to higher power by bolting in more units.
so far we have everything working and stable but since the mounting is different we are testing a lot. were also testing different pumps for the system.
the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
our intent is to roll out upgradeable chargers from 3.3 kw all the way uoto 26 once the zero firmware is updated to allow faster charging than 1C.
the reason we would roll out smaller units to start is so you can start charging faster now and upgrade as we are ready.
i am back on the 12th i hope to get some more zeros over here in japan soon.
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Good to have an update and to know that you're making progress again, have fun in Japan.
Water cooling, neat! Are you using desktop water cooling components? Also modularity, very nice for riders that have access to the European high power AC network.
Last but not least, are there some pictures that are ready to be released?
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the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
Well, that is seriously some good news. The 10%-85% times are going to be interesting. And as it has been said, we in Europa can then fully benefit from the AC chargers which go up to 43kW (still quite rare).
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the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
Will there be some kind of adapter that would allow us to plug in 2 or more J1172 stations for 10kw charging at the common (near me) 5kw locations?....
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Two weeks have passed, is there an update yet? I need the dimensions before I can go design a new tail section...
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I heard they are testing different cooling plates and fans, and until those are finalized the dimensions will not be certain for a little while.
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the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
Will there be some kind of adapter that would allow us to plug in 2 or more J1172 stations for 10kw charging at the common (near me) 5kw locations?....
I know that they're interested in supporting this scenario.
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Small kick, are there any developments?
I don't mind waiting at all but I'm planning a long trip and it would be neat to know if I can do it in the spring or have to postpone it until the summer so at least a rough estimate would really appreciated.
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Small kick, are there any developments?
Brandon called last week to follow up on my June 20th 2016 order. Previously I had expressed my concern that I would receive delivery by the end of the US tax year 2016. I expected that he would be confirming my order details for the 11kW Super Charger V1 as ordered. What he offered as an alternative is I could accept a Super Charger V2 system 3kW module now and an additional module later. The manufacturer of the V1 (E-Motor Werks?) is no longer viable to contract with and at least some of the money from V1 orders are presumed to be a loss for Diginow. Support for the V1 would necessarily be a refund. The new manufacturer (Elcon?) is better and development on the Super Charger V2 system has progressed faster than expected. The V2 is currently in production but only the 3kW module is ready now.
He also asked me about Facebook and it sounds like he's made a video with some innovation or announcement. I don't mess with social wankery sites, so maybe one of you book face twitter diddly types can post the details.
Should I have accepted the V1 or to take the offer of the V2?
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I'm confused. I too ordered a V1 in early July but havent heard anything from Diginow's dealer since then. What is this 3k V2 charger and what is the "module" that will be added later? Are these things huge and not compact like the emotorwerks charger? I just got a single elcon to bridge the gap in the diginow delay, so I at least have additional charging in the spring, but elcon is heavy and huge.
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I'm confused. I too ordered a V1 in early July but havent heard anything from Diginow's dealer since then. What is this 3k V2 charger and what is the "module" that will be added later? Are these things huge and not compact like the emotorwerks charger? I just got a single elcon to bridge the gap in the diginow delay, so I at least have additional charging in the spring, but elcon is heavy and huge.
The V2 unit is a combination of these new Elcon models, the HK-J which each put out 3.3kW as long as they're cooled: http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/9034090/10295140.htm (http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/9034090/10295140.htm)
Two of these units together with the cooling system seem to be smaller than the V1 charger, and easier to configure in the tank area or elsewhere. I've seen these units; they're very compact. I can't make precise claims but I made a quick CAD sketch and the pair together is easily smaller than the V1, and possibly 3 can be fit under the tank, although I think DigiNow has another arrangement in mind.
I'm attaching a screencap of my CAD layout for this comparison.
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@dukecola who did you order from, and where are you located?
@BrianTRice I'll send you an actual solid part of the charger for your library of ebike kniwledge.
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We are shipping next week FYI.
I have called all the people on the dealer's pre orders that I am aware of.
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When the dust settles on V2, I'm sure everyone would like to hear price, plan and product information for new customers.
I would love to charge at a rate greater than ~10 miles of range per hour.
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Brandon check your IM please.
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When the dust settles on V2, I'm sure everyone would like to hear price, plan and product information for new customers.
I would love to charge at a rate greater than ~10 miles of range per hour.
+1
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So the HK-J Series charger works via can with the BMS?
I am excited...
Where can we buy it?
Thanks,
Mario.
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We are shipping next week FYI.
I have called all the people on the dealer's pre orders that I am aware of.
Thanks for the update, next week is faster than I suspected! I'll drop Hollywood Electrics an email for follow up on my unit.
If you can release more information like max power etc. that would be great.
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He also asked me about Facebook and it sounds like he's made a video with some innovation or announcement. I don't mess with social wankery sites, so maybe one of you book face twitter diddly types can post the details.
No video yet. Just a picture of Brandon charging a Zero at a Tesla charging station using a J-plug adaptor. ;)
If you can release more information like max power etc. that would be great.
Brandon has already provided the information in this thread.
3.3kW modules x 6 = 19.8kW
3.3kW modules x 8 = 26.4kW
we have 15 units in stock and are testing mounting and cooling now.
the higger power chargers require liquid cooling. if that isnt ready by the time i am back from japan we will start shipping smaller charges which can upgrade to higher power by bolting in more units.
so far we have everything working and stable but since the mounting is different we are testing a lot. were also testing different pumps for the system.
the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
our intent is to roll out upgradeable chargers from 3.3 kw all the way uoto 26 once the zero firmware is updated to allow faster charging than 1C.
the reason we would roll out smaller units to start is so you can start charging faster now and upgrade as we are ready.
i am back on the 12th i hope to get some more zeros over here in japan soon.
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I've read that already but perhaps I just cannot contain my excitement. Looking at the base used for the charger I'm guessing that it won't support DC.
The modularity is a nice thing, that way you can mount them more balanced on the back of a bike. Charging at +1C will be amazing.
I'm curious how it will support 3 phase input, probably by assigning each phase at its own 2-3 charger block?
Time to beef up my top case support until the new rear and will be made.
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No video yet. Just a picture of Brandon charging a Zero at a Tesla charging station using a J-plug adaptor. ;)
Ah, the mythical HPWC adapter. Thanks. That's a difficult connector to source.
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@dukecola who did you order from, and where are you located?
@BrianTRice I'll send you an actual solid part of the charger for your library of ebike kniwledge.
GrandCanyon, I'm in NH. Appreciate any update. Thanks
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Thanks Brian, small and compact and light is what I'm looking for as I always ride 2-up and exceed weight as it is.
[/quote]
The V2 unit is a combination of these new Elcon models, the HK-J which each put out 3.3kW as long as they're cooled: http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/9034090/10295140.htm (http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/9034090/10295140.htm)
Two of these units together with the cooling system seem to be smaller than the V1 charger, and easier to configure in the tank area or elsewhere. I've seen these units; they're very compact. I can't make precise claims but I made a quick CAD sketch and the pair together is easily smaller than the V1, and possibly 3 can be fit under the tank, although I think DigiNow has another arrangement in mind.
I'm attaching a screencap of my CAD layout for this comparison.
[/quote]
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we have 15 units in stock and are testing mounting and cooling now.
the higger power chargers require liquid cooling. if that isnt ready by the time i am back from japan we will start shipping smaller charges which can upgrade to higher power by bolting in more units.
so far we have everything working and stable but since the mounting is different we are testing a lot. were also testing different pumps for the system.
the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
our intent is to roll out upgradeable chargers from 3.3 kw all the way uoto 26 once the zero firmware is updated to allow faster charging than 1C.
the reason we would roll out smaller units to start is so you can start charging faster now and upgrade as we are ready.
i am back on the 12th i hope to get some more zeros over here in japan soon.
Why aren't you using the 6,6 kW charger in stead of two 3,3 kW chargers?
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So, I have a base 3.3kW system coming to me...what do I need to buy to get started? New tank with chargetank cover? Can I just bolt the SC to the back of the bike somewhere for now, or is it too large for that? I haven't seen any pictures of the current setup.
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So, I have a base 3.3kW system coming to me...what do I need to buy to get started? New tank with chargetank cover? Can I just bolt the SC to the back of the bike somewhere for now, or is it too large for that? I haven't seen any pictures of the current setup.
Very few have seen pics.
Personally I would love to see pics of the supercharger, and the board and everything... While I have no doubts about the quality of it, I would like to have some idea of what it looked like internally before dropping the money for it.
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Hopefully mine arrives in the next week - I'll post what I get.
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Had a quick chat with Brandon, J-plug chargers are almost ready to ship out, chargers for countries that use Mennekes need a slight modification but nothing special.
1C charging is a go, even faster is in the pipeline depending on some answers from Zero about the firmware.
Bottomline; things are looking good.
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Just so it's clear, I'm not involved in the V2 documentation process and I don't have an order in, so I can't respond informatively other than collating what's been posted publicly. Good luck! I'm sure this will be very low-key compared to the first rollout.
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[29-Dec] Mike/digiNow emailed to confirm my shipping address. This is getting interesting now.
[30-Dec] Verified with Brandon/digiNow what can be expected in this portion of order fulfillment. Version two SuperCharger 3.3kW and a JuiceBox, maybe the redesigned NEMA 14-50 adapter (and other adapters) pending parts and assembly. Not ready yet is the version two SuperCharger 6.6kW module, needed to total 10kW comparable to the version one SuperCharger.
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Not ready yet is the version two SuperCharger 6.6kW module, needed to total 10kW comparable to the version one SuperCharger.
Wouldn't that result in 6.6 + 1.3 = 7.9 kW, including onboard charger?
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Wouldn't that result in 6.6 + 1.3 = 7.9 kW, including onboard charger?
How do you figure this? Why do we care about the maintenance charger?
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Maintenance charger?
Isn't the onboard 1.4kW?
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Maintenance charger?
Isn't the onboard 1.4kW?
No, it's 1300W:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Charger (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Charger)
http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html (http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html)
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Hey guys, I updated the website. Sorry I don't have time to make it easier on the eyes. I did atleast update the node server to support templates so it will be a bit easier to mintain.
http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
@6.6 vs 7.9 you want every watt you can get when charging. I added in the times for :
Just onboard, just SCv2 modules, SCv2 modules + onboard, and of course the hershner rate. You can see that the SCv2 + onboard is the fastest. And if the power is available, it would be silly not to use.
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I'll do an unboxing video today so everyone knows what to expect with the base models.
@dukecola Mike or I will give you a call today.
someone asked about dual j-plug, yes, that is an improvement over the SCv1 this setup will allow multiple inputs and ove differnt voltages etc if really needed.
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Outstanding, I can't wait. Thank you Electric Cowboy!
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Thanks! Leave message if I dont answer, loud here at work.
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Very nice. Thanks for the updates, particularly having a web page. This is looking much more confident now.
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Indeed the new web page is better yes. But how about that unboxing video from yesterday? ;)
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Gotta upload and publish it still :) Still crimping and soldering.
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from my days working for Google Inc.:
"Crimpin' ain't easy... but it sho' is fun!"
orangewhite/orange,greenwhite/blue,bluewhite/green,brownwhite/brown.
orangewhite/orange,greenwhite/blue,bluewhite/green,brownwhite/brown.
orangewhite/orange,greenwhite/blue,bluewhite/green,brownwhite/brown.
...
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Here is the unboxing video, I forgot to show the bracket.
https://youtu.be/uAdNeARedvY (https://youtu.be/uAdNeARedvY)
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Here is the unboxing video, I forgot to show the bracket.
https://youtu.be/uAdNeARedvY (https://youtu.be/uAdNeARedvY)
Super stoked ;D
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Hey out there and congrats for the Supercharger!
Is it possible to purchase V2 in Europe?? Is it compatible with a DS13 with updated 12.5kw battery?
Thanks!
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Yes and yes.
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Just make sure not to exceed 3kW through the aux charging port on the 13DS. The onboard charger does not count against this, and you can totally bypass this limit by charging through the controller.
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Great! So...
Where can I get it?
How to bypass?
Btw, my onboard is long gone, so I charge via the aux...
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Great! So...
Where can I get it?
How to bypass?
Btw, my onboard is long gone, so I charge via the aux...
See the product page for specs/pricing: http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
Talk to Electric Cowboy about ordering, and about bypassing the aux charge port.
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Really great this SCv2! Appriciate all the effort people put in this. Personally I'm still in doubt if I should go for an good DIY solution e.g. Remmies Charger, or go for this heavy duty, solid solution. Some questions regarding this charger though:
-How are the charger(s) being mounted and connected to the bike? I would personally avoid using the aux port, its in such a wet and not easy to access area.. I would mount and connect it in a more permanent style, weather and rain proof.
-I would love to plug the Menneks plug into the bike in a Chargetank style. But how to get a tank plastic with this plug? It's not seperate for sale I believe?
-Or keep a 2meter wire fixed on the bike and keep it in the tankbag, but is there room anough for the charger and the bag then?
-I want to charge in 2 ways, one is on a household single 16A 230V group and the second is on a tripple phase Mennekes type 2 plug. For the first option I would like to be able to maximize the current to this 16A, knowing that the charger isn't using it's max capabilities, but otherwise the fuse trips. So I use the max of 16A here when there's no Mennkes outlet available. For the second option I want to use the SCv2 to max the current and to use the onboard also. Summarizing, can one modify the current setting of the SCv2 on the fly so we can adapt to the power source available?
Besides this all I'm dying to to see any beta pics of installing/using this new charger! Also how it is mounted/configured when used some chargers together. Keep up the good work!
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Cheers for the tips! There I go!
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All right just finalized the last details of my unit(2x 6,6kW, liquid cooled, mennekes inlet) and it will enter production soon! :D
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All right just finalized the last details of my unit(2x 6,6kW, liquid cooled, mennekes inlet) and it will enter production soon! :D
Is that 2x6.6kW=13.2kW? Or 2x chargers equal a total of 6.6kW?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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A total of 13.2kW yes, that should be enough to silence the hunger for more power until the bikes rear end gets reworked and +1C charging is available and tested. Then I might even up the ante to 20-ish kW.
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A total of 13.2kW yes, that should be enough to silence the hunger for more power until the bikes rear end gets reworked and +1C charging is available and tested. Then I might even up the ante to 20-ish kW.
That sounds good! I was charging at 11kW regularly on my trip this summer and it was great!
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Did the 3.3kW systems already ship? I can't wait for mine to arrive.
And 11kW is too fast, I need time to stretch and walk around. :)
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Alright, finally breaking my lurking for 7+ months! I have my 3.3kW charger being delivered today. I'm guessing all of the installation instructions will be included with the charger itself and am ready to mount it ASAP. But, for those of us who got over eager back in June/July and ordered a power tank cover for it (not the charge tank plastics, they weren't available yet), are there instructions on how to install with that?
I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
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A total of 13.2kW yes, that should be enough to silence the hunger for more power until the bikes rear end gets reworked and +1C charging is available and tested. Then I might even up the ante to 20-ish kW.
That sounds good! I was charging at 11kW regularly on my trip this summer and it was great!
I commute once a week but it is 250-350km depending on the location so the faster the better. And of course there will be a nice summer trip with the bike this year.
Alright, finally breaking my lurking for 7+ months! I have my 3.3kW charger being delivered today. I'm guessing all of the installation instructions will be included with the charger itself and am ready to mount it ASAP. But, for those of us who got over eager back in June/July and ordered a power tank cover for it (not the charge tank plastics, they weren't available yet), are there instructions on how to install with that?
I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
Welcome! If you can pretty much spam this thread with photo's and video's of all the goodies it will make a lot of people here happy. Brian had a build log in one of the other threads iirc...
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Welcome! If you can pretty much spam this thread with photo's and video's of all the goodies it will make a lot of people here happy. Brian had a build log in one of the other threads iirc...
I'll try my best. I hope I'll have the time to install it tonight. If not, this weekend for sure.
And I remember him posting pictures of it done, but I don't recall any specific instructions. I'll poke around the forums again and see if I can gain any more info on that mounting.
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I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE TANK!!!!!
You don't need to modify the charge tank at all to install the charger. All you need to do is cut some plastic off the J-Plug port that comes with the charger then it installs in the charge tank just like stock. I can post some pictures in a couple hours.
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I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE TANK!!!!!
You don't need to modify the charge tank at all to install the charger. All you need to do is cut some plastic off the J-Plug port that comes with the charger then it installs in the charge tank just like stock. I can post some pictures in a couple hours.
Unfortunately I only have the power tank plastics, not the charge tank. So I don't have that luxury. This was ordered back in around June, before the charge tank plastics were even available. I was getting ready for the charger and I got frustrated at my tank bag flopping around when I was riding, so I kind of jumped the gun on this one.
Chances are I'll eventually get the charge tank plastics, but for now this is all I have.
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I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE TANK!!!!!
You don't need to modify the charge tank at all to install the charger. All you need to do is cut some plastic off the J-Plug port that comes with the charger then it installs in the charge tank just like stock. I can post some pictures in a couple hours.
Unfortunately I only have the power tank plastics, not the charge tank. So I don't have that luxury. This was ordered back in around June, before the charge tank plastics were even available. I was getting ready for the charger and I got frustrated at my tank bag flopping around when I was riding, so I kind of jumped the gun on this one.
Chances are I'll eventually get the charge tank plastics, but for now this is all I have.
Ahh...I misread....I thought you said you had charge tank plastic.
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I have nothing but storage on my SR tank. Which option is easiest / cleanest? I need to order my plastics but haven't decided, and my charger should be here any day.
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I know it's destructive and it requires drilling through the plastic, but that's fine. Brian, I believe you had instructions on the mounting of the J-plug from the v1 charger. Are you able to share those original plans just for mounting the J-plug? I would really appreciate it.
DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE CHARGE TANK!!!!!
You don't need to modify the charge tank at all to install the charger. All you need to do is cut some plastic off the J-Plug port that comes with the charger then it installs in the charge tank just like stock. I can post some pictures in a couple hours.
Unfortunately I only have the power tank plastics, not the charge tank. So I don't have that luxury. This was ordered back in around June, before the charge tank plastics were even available. I was getting ready for the charger and I got frustrated at my tank bag flopping around when I was riding, so I kind of jumped the gun on this one.
Chances are I'll eventually get the charge tank plastics, but for now this is all I have.
Ahh...I misread....I thought you said you had charge tank plastic.
No worries, I kind of worded my post weird, so it was easy to miss.
But please do submit those pictures when you have a chance! I'm sure many other members will appreciate them. Also I'd like to see them for the future when I finally do get the charge tank plastic.
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Charge Tank plastic is definitely the way to go for anyone that hasn't already purchased Power Tank plastic. No modification required to the charge tank plastic. Minor modification to the J-plug that came with the DigiNow and then it fit perfectly.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20161021_230105_zpsvx6werap.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20161021_230105_zpsvx6werap.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20160901_010344_zpsvlfmr735.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20160901_010344_zpsvlfmr735.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20160901_023004_zpslc4wow4v.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20160901_023004_zpslc4wow4v.jpg.html)
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Here are some pics of the modified plug.
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One more of the plug going into the Charge Tank and one of the part that was cut off the plug.
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Great pics, thanks for the posting(s)!
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Does your battery pack glow?
Also, did you not tie your J1772 connection in your tank into your onboard charger? I could see doing that once the in tank charger is upgraded to 6.6kW.
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That's definitely good looking mrwilsn! Kind of bummed I got the power tank plastics so early so it won't be as nice looking. But something to look forward to later.
On another note, I do have my charger now, I was able to figure out how everything connects up (for the most part) but I have no idea how to use the mounting bracket. Are there instructions available? None were included in my box.
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Does your battery pack glow?
Also, did you not tie your J1772 connection in your tank into your onboard charger? I could see doing that once the in tank charger is upgraded to 6.6kW.
I currently have the SCv1 on my bike. I will be installing the SCv2 next week. The SCv1 can pull 10kW all by it's lonesome so if I connected to a 6.6kW J-plug I was maxing that baby out. Thus the J-plug to 3-way adaptor that allows use of the onboard in addition to the SCv1 if 2 J-plugs are available.
Here is the 3-way adaptor available from DigiNow (I bought the 1ft C13 to NEMA 5-15 cord seperately). Note that when you use the J-plug to 3-way adaptor the three plugs will be at 240V (or as low as 208V depending on the charging station) so you will want to make sure anything you plug in can handle the higher voltage. Most stuff will say it can take 100-240V but every once in a while (in the USA) you will find something that is only rated for 120V.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160912/13f36b694f6eef95e07674a3ef09db8d.jpg)
Here is a screen shot of me charging at 10kW.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/Screenshot_20160905-065545_zpse4jcrkrm.png) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/Screenshot_20160905-065545_zpse4jcrkrm.png.html)
The SCv2 allows a lot more flexibility for installation options. With a single 3.3kW SCv2 there is still room to connect the 1.3kW onboard for 4.6kW total (a great configuration for an FX or FXS).
If you have two SCv2 modules (6.6kW total) then you will want to connect the SCv2 modules to one J-plug. To use the onboard you will need a second J-plug and an adaptor like the J-plug to 3-way adaptor.
If you have three SCv2 modules (9.9kW total) then you will use two J-plugs and can charge at 11.2kW with the onboard. In this configuration one J-plug is going to an SCv2 module and the onboard and the second J-plug has the other 2 SCv2 modules.
Adding a 4th SCv2 module means 2 J-plugs for a total of 13.2kW and if you also want to use the onboard for 14.5kW total then you need a third J-plug. Theoretically you can keep adding modules as long as you have enough J-plugs to charge from.
That's all for the USA. If you are in an area that uses mennkes then a single mennkes can use 3 SCv2 modules or 2 SCv2 modules and the onboard from a single mennkes plug.
Of course, DigiNow will include all the harnesses to connect everything per the configuration ordered so you don't need to figure out how to hook what wire up to what.
As for the battery glow...it's a vinyl wrap. The color changes based on lighting conditions. With a camera flash (or headlights) it really lights up ;D
This is in dark lighting.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20161005_202755_zpsddxuua1l.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20161005_202755_zpsddxuua1l.jpg.html)
Notice that in this picture the tank bag piping isn't reflecting but the battery is still turquoise...that's just by getting the right angle for the garage light to reflect back to the camera. When you walk past it in sun light it will transition from dark green to turquoise. I like it a lot 8)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20161008_033727_zps6thdi7zy.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20161008_033727_zps6thdi7zy.jpg.html)
And here is outdoor lighting....while using the J-plug to 3-way adaptor to charge using the onboard while charing a GoPro at the same time.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_20161010_145345_zpszx4vqajg.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_20161010_145345_zpszx4vqajg.jpg.html)
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That's all for the USA. If you are in an area that uses mennkes then a single mennkes has 3 phases available so you can use 3 SCv2 modules or 2 SCv2 modules and the onboard from a single mennkes plug. From 2 mennkes you could use 6 SCv2 modules for 19.8kW of charging!!
Great, Really! Now this fast charging is really going. Love all the pics. I'm in Europe so the mennkes solution is the one for me. Practical speaking, how many chargers wil physically fit in the tank area? Can I fit 2x 6.6kW and use the onboard, or should I stick with the (I guess) smaller 3.3kW and use these 2 together with the onboard?
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@mrwilson, wow you got a lot from our chats, way cool. Thanks for the assist. One new thing for you, and probably others too is that jplugs are single phase, 2 leg setups. So you use both legs together to get 208-240v.
Mennekes are 3 phase which is also three leg. So you tie a leg to neutral unlike the Jplug where you use the legs together.
@Chicamungo if your charger arrived shoot me an email or a text. I am in FL now, will be in Sarasota later today, and the funeral is Friday. I can do a hangout or duo video chat with you or just chat on the phone with you.
-Brandon
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That's all for the USA. If you are in an area that uses mennkes then a single mennkes has 3 phases available so you can use 3 SCv2 modules or 2 SCv2 modules and the onboard from a single mennkes plug. From 2 mennkes you could use 6 SCv2 modules for 19.8kW of charging!!
That wrap is so cool, have you considered doing pinstripes on the rim to complement it?
Also a small addition to the quote above; although most public Mennekes are 11kW there are also heaps of 22kW stations and even 43kW stations along the motorways.
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Thanks EC! I'll give you a contact today. I appreciate your readiness to help, even though it sounds like you've got a lot going on.
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I can't help with documentation on this round. I hope DigiNow has that all worked out well enough now.
My budget is tight between my other Zero projects and getting my girlfriend finally moved to California, so it'll be a bit before I augment my SCv1 with v2.
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So Brandon called me last night and walked me through how to set it all up. Many thanks!
I've taken [bad] pictures of the majority of my steps that I plan on post in a separate thread in the Pics section of the forums. I just want to confirm a couple of things and then mount the J-plug inlet to my power tank then I'll post everything. Just taking a few more precautions to make sure I don't post anything wrong is all.
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So Brandon called me last night and walked me through how to set it all up. Many thanks!
I've taken [bad] pictures of the majority of my steps that I plan on post in a separate thread in the Pics section of the forums. I just want to confirm a couple of things and then mount the J-plug inlet to my power tank then I'll post everything. Just taking a few more precautions to make sure I don't post anything wrong is all.
Thanks for doing this. Please take lots of pics! Mine will be here in a week or two.
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I got mine and set it up for external use until I get my 2017 Zero. Can we type up some basics on the installation and beg Mr. Willson to include them in his amazing online manual?
Also, I don't see a mounting bracket in mine...?
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I got mine and set it up for external use until I get my 2017 Zero. Can we type up some basics on the installation and beg Mr. Willson to include them in his amazing online manual?
Also, I don't see a mounting bracket in mine...?
If you are referring to: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Main_Page (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Main_Page)
Or more specifically: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger)
The web page is hosted by @MrDude1 and @BrianTRice does the bulk of the work on adding content with others like @Shadow chipping in. I haven't ever done any editing of the site.
As for Super Charger Installation instructions...
@Doug S did a pretty good job of describing the SCv1 installation process in this post: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6046.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6046.0)
@Chicamungo did a pretty good job of describing the SCv2 installation process in this post: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6557.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6557.0)
If you are missing the mounting bracket just contact DigiNow....they will get it sent out to you. ;D
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Oh wow, I missed the SC2 install thread. Great information there. I don't know why I thought you hosted it, my bad. Thank you for all the links.
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I got mine and set it up for external use until I get my 2017 Zero. Can we type up some basics on the installation and beg Mr. Willson to include them in his amazing online manual?
Also, I don't see a mounting bracket in mine...?
That was shipped the next day. Appologies for that.
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No problem. This thing is great. Can't wait for the expansion!
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Autoblog picked up the DigiNow story: http://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/19/diginow-super-charger-v2-tesla-ev/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/19/diginow-super-charger-v2-tesla-ev/)
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Added additional specs on the site. I think Brian will be happy to see some of this type of info going up.
http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
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Added additional specs on the site. I think Brian will be happy to see some of this type of info going up.
http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
Very nice! Curious, how much weight is added with each module?
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Added additional specs on the site. I think Brian will be happy to see some of this type of info going up.
http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
this may be a silly question covered elsewhere, but if you have the 7.9 kW unit and you plug into a EVSE that only supports less than 7.9kw, it will limit itself to stay below the EVSE limit, right? Does it include the factory onboard charger in this measurement? Silly question and I assume it all does, but I cant find where anyone outright says it.
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I believe the EVSE limits the power to the charger(s), so it doesn't blow it's breaker.
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I believe the EVSE limits the power to the charger(s), so it doesn't blow it's breaker.
A EVSE is a glorified power switch. It just sends a pilot signal to tell the EV what the limit should be. If the EV draws over the limit, the EVSE just opens the breaker switch and "unplugs" it. It doesnt "limit" power like a power supply does.
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Good question then. If you're charging at 6.6kW and decide to plug in the onboard, going over the EVSEs, lets say, ~7kW limit, does it shut down? Does the DigiNow reduce power based on what the EVSE told it it had available?
Similarly, if I hook up the onboard to it, then plug it all in to one J-plug, will it balance the power better? Or will the EVSE just refuse to deliver 7.9kW to it?
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Good question then. If you're charging at 6.6kW and decide to plug in the onboard, going over the EVSEs, lets say, ~7kW limit, does it shut down? Does the DigiNow reduce power based on what the EVSE told it it had available?
Similarly, if I hook up the onboard to it, then plug it all in to one J-plug, will it balance the power better? Or will the EVSE just refuse to deliver 7.9kW to it?
I like DigiNow's new information for sure but yes they should speak to this. V1 development spent a lot of cycles trying to strike a balance because of poor J signal implementations.
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Booked my tickets to come pick it up ;D
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The notes on the 7.9 suggest the use of a second Jplug for the onboard. I will update on more when the 6.6 upgrades are available.
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But, will the 7.9 trip the 7kW EVSE if plugged into only one J plug? Or, will it slow to whatever the EVSE is capable for providing.
I'm going to try to charge with my 110v 12amp J plug from my car when I get back from work tomorrow to see if it will drop down to ~1300 watts (with onboard unplugged) and bike keyed on.
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6.6 comes from the charger and 1.3 from your onboard. If you run the onboard from the same jplug as the units and the station can not handle that much power it may trip the breaker or current fault.
So the recomendation is to use a second JPlug for your onboard charger so you can get a full 7.9 kW charging. In the US most stations will trip if you pull more than 6.6 so we recommend using 1 Jplug for the SC and a 2nd JPlug for the onboard.
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Gotcha. So, from the standard ChargePoint units, just do the SC and no onboard, or get the second J plug going like you're saying. Just curious about what would happen. I see myself popping lots of random chargers later this year as I push the limits. Lots of single J plug locations out here in VA.
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we have 15 units in stock and are testing mounting and cooling now.
the higger power chargers require liquid cooling. if that isnt ready by the time i am back from japan we will start shipping smaller charges which can upgrade to higher power by bolting in more units.
so far we have everything working and stable but since the mounting is different we are testing a lot. were also testing different pumps for the system.
the system is fully modular and should be able to fit 19.8 kw on the bike. its fully isolated so the modularity allows the use of multiple jplugs.
our intent is to roll out upgradeable chargers from 3.3 kw all the way uoto 26 once the zero firmware is updated to allow faster charging than 1C.
the reason we would roll out smaller units to start is so you can start charging faster now and upgrade as we are ready.
i am back on the 12th i hope to get some more zeros over here in japan soon.
Are the two-module 6.6 kW units still air-cooled? Do both modules fit into the storage tank location? For users that have installed the 3.3 kW system, they would presumably just be shipped an additional module, updated firmware for the control board, and any extra cables / cooling bits required?
For higher-power units - 19.8 kW being presumably 3 groups of 2 modules - the idea is at that these modules would be wired up to separate 30A J1772 plugs? Kind of like Terry's charger array on his 2012 bike, but about a third the weight!
It'd be interesting to see what a 2017 Last Vetter Fairing + high power charger bike would look like, compared to the 2012 iteration.
Terry's bike on his Iron Butt challenge (http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/2014-Challenges/2014-Iron-Butt.html) had 7 ZF3 battery modules and 8 Elcon PFC2500 chargers, for a total of 18.4 kWh onboard and 20 kW from 4 J1772 plugs. That's approximately 240 pounds additional batteries and 150 pounds of extra chargers, on top of the 340 pound bike = 730 pounds, before the fairings.
A 2017 ZF13 SR + Power Tank (14.3 kWh total) weighs in at 458 pounds, and 19.6 kW from 6 HK-J charging modules adds an additional 52 pounds = 510 pounds in total.
Even better, the 2017 iteration has more power, a stronger frame, and can fully utilize a 30A J1772 ESVE: only 3 required for the 19.6 kW charge rate, and a fourth could be attached to the onboard charger for 21 kW. Of course that's a 1.5C charge rate to the battery, which it might not like..
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I suddenly get the appeal of the Tesla or 15-50 adapters.
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I suddenly get the appeal of the Tesla or 15-50 adapters.
I couldn't agree more. A 14-50 outlet, you plug into it, draw 50 amps or less, and you're good. Protect your own equipment as you wish; the fuse/circuit breaker will protect the outlet.
If you want a little bit more intelligence behind the hookup, which seems like a good idea at high power levels, the Tesla standard is the only one on the market that offers plenty of flexibility, lots of power, and is a single, consistently-implemented protocol. I've posted it too many times already, but I think it's a very important point: https://xkcd.com/927/
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We have both air and liquid cooling options. It depends on your setup which you should get. I like the liquid cooling myself, but air is a simpler install.
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Is air adequate for 6.6kW, in tank installs? I should stop bothering you with questions and let you do your engineeering stuff. :) Very excited for the upgrade. Thank you for your time again, amazing work!
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Air should be adequate for most people. If you live somewhere with very high ambient temperatures in the summer you can always buy the liquid cooling kit later. For racing in the desert I'll need that, but I don't think most people will. If you are installing in a closed top case, liquid cooling is definitely needed.
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No tech. question, but anyone knows plastic charge tank ' price ?
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EC,
So a couple of times after the quick charging, my dash has the alert flash. It's 3 quick flashes, small pause, 3 quick flashes.
Have you seen anything like this? I pulled the logs from my bike but didn't see anything in there indicating an error. There doesn't seem to be any difference while riding though so I've just been ignoring it for now. I checked the manual and don't see that pattern match up with anything.
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No tech. question, but anyone knows plastic charge tank ' price ?
I have been just quoted $300, for s, SR '15
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
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EC,
So a couple of times after the quick charging, my dash has the alert flash. It's 3 quick flashes, small pause, 3 quick flashes.
Have you seen anything like this? I pulled the logs from my bike but didn't see anything in there indicating an error. There doesn't seem to be any difference while riding though so I've just been ignoring it for now. I checked the manual and don't see that pattern match up with anything.
Pull the logs.
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I've started updating the wiki's entries for DigiNow, both Supercharger and OBD-II plug: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger)
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EC,
So a couple of times after the quick charging, my dash has the alert flash. It's 3 quick flashes, small pause, 3 quick flashes.
Have you seen anything like this? I pulled the logs from my bike but didn't see anything in there indicating an error. There doesn't seem to be any difference while riding though so I've just been ignoring it for now. I checked the manual and don't see that pattern match up with anything.
Pull the logs.
Here's the relevant info from the Bike Logs.
04111 01/14/2017 19:04:48 Charging PackTemp: h 31C, l 29C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 84%, Vpack:114.664V, BattAmps: -36, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
04112 01/14/2017 19:06:50 Calex 1200W Charger 1 Disconnected
04113 01/14/2017 19:06:50 INFO: Disabling Charger 1
04114 01/14/2017 19:07:29 Power Off Unknown
04115 01/14/2017 19:07:29 Sevcon Turned Off
04116 01/14/2017 19:07:29 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 114.587V, batt curr: 0A
04117 01/14/2017 19:07:29 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04118 01/14/2017 19:07:29 INFO: Disabling Charger 2
04119 01/14/2017 19:07:29 INFO: Disabling Charger 3
04120 0 DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
04121 0 Power On Key Switch
04122 0 Key On
04123 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
04124 0 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04125 0 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04126 0 Disabling CIB for non-timeout reason
04127 0 Module 00 CAN Link Up
04128 0 Module 00 Registered serial: 14qd1200, vmod: 114.473V
04129 01/14/2017 19:07:36 Sevcon Turned On
04130 01/14/2017 19:07:36 Sevcon CAN Link Up
04131 01/14/2017 19:07:37 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
04132 01/14/2017 19:07:37 Module 00 Closing Contactor vmod: 114.435V, maxsys: 114.409V, minsys: 114.409V, diff: 0.000V, vcap: 105.750V, prechg: 92%
04133 01/14/2017 19:07:37 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
04134 01/14/2017 19:07:37 INFO: Enabling Charger 2
04135 01/14/2017 19:07:37 INFO: Enabling Charger 3
04136 01/14/2017 19:07:38 CIB timeout: 5010 ms
04137 01/14/2017 19:07:44 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 29C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:114.363V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 28C, CtrlTemp: 17C, AmbTemp: 34C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7864km
04138 01/14/2017 19:08:22 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04139 01/14/2017 19:08:22 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04140 01/14/2017 19:08:44 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:114.012V, MotAmps: 115, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 30C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 25C, MotRPM: 16, Odo: 7864km
04141 01/14/2017 19:09:44 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.126V, MotAmps: 151, BattAmps: 50, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 34C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 20C, MotRPM:1340, Odo: 7864km
04142 01/14/2017 19:10:15 Power Off Key Switch
04143 01/14/2017 19:10:15 Sevcon Turned Off
04144 01/14/2017 19:10:15 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 113.813V, batt curr: 0A
04145 01/14/2017 19:10:15 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04146 01/14/2017 19:10:15 INFO: Disabling Charger 2
04147 01/14/2017 19:10:15 INFO: Disabling Charger 3
04148 01/14/2017 19:10:16 CPU Soft Reset: Power Down Interrupted by Key On
04149 0 DEBUG: Reset: Software
04150 0 Board Reset Software
04151 0 Key On
04152 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
04153 0 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04154 0 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04155 0 Disabling CIB for non-timeout reason
04156 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04157 0 Module 00 CAN Link Up
04158 0 Module 00 Registered serial: 14qd1200, vmod: 113.842V
04159 01/14/2017 19:10:19 Sevcon Turned On
04160 01/14/2017 19:10:20 CAN1 BIT0 error. count=1
04161 01/14/2017 19:10:20 Sevcon CAN Link Up
04162 01/14/2017 19:10:21 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
04163 01/14/2017 19:10:21 Module 00 Closing Contactor vmod: 113.832V, maxsys: 113.824V, minsys: 113.824V, diff: 0.000V, vcap: 105.312V, prechg: 92%
04164 01/14/2017 19:10:21 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
04165 01/14/2017 19:10:21 INFO: Enabling Charger 2
04166 01/14/2017 19:10:21 INFO: Enabling Charger 3
04167 01/14/2017 19:10:22 CIB timeout: 5009 ms
04168 01/14/2017 19:10:28 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.712V, MotAmps: 64, BattAmps: 7, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM: 503, Odo: 7864km
04169 01/14/2017 19:11:26 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
04170 01/14/2017 19:11:26 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04171 01/14/2017 19:11:28 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.751V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 36C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7864km
04172 01/14/2017 19:11:29 Power Off Key Switch
04173 01/14/2017 19:11:29 Sevcon Turned Off
04174 01/14/2017 19:11:29 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 113.754V, batt curr: 0A
04175 01/14/2017 19:11:29 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04176 01/14/2017 19:11:29 INFO: Disabling Charger 2
04177 01/14/2017 19:11:29 INFO: Disabling Charger 3
04178 0 DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
04179 0 Power On Key Switch
04180 0 Key On
04181 0 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
04182 0 Module 00 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04183 0 Module 01 Opening Contactor vmod: 0.000V, batt curr: 0A
04184 0 Disabling CIB for non-timeout reason
04185 0 Module 00 CAN Link Up
04186 0 Module 00 Registered serial: 14qd1200, vmod: 113.782V
04187 01/14/2017 19:11:36 Sevcon Turned On
04188 01/14/2017 19:11:37 CAN1 BIT0 error. count=1
04189 01/14/2017 19:11:37 Sevcon CAN Link Up
04190 01/14/2017 19:11:37 DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
04191 01/14/2017 19:11:38 Module 00 Closing Contactor vmod: 113.777V, maxsys: 113.771V, minsys: 113.771V, diff: 0.000V, vcap: 105.062V, prechg: 92%
04192 01/14/2017 19:11:38 DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
04193 01/14/2017 19:11:38 INFO: Enabling Charger 2
04194 01/14/2017 19:11:38 INFO: Enabling Charger 3
04195 01/14/2017 19:11:39 CIB timeout: 5005 ms
04196 01/14/2017 19:11:45 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.783V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 36C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7864km
04197 01/14/2017 19:12:45 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.789V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 34C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 21C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7864km
04198 01/14/2017 19:12:56 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04199 01/14/2017 19:12:56 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04200 01/14/2017 19:13:45 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.663V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7865km
04201 01/14/2017 19:13:46 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
04202 01/14/2017 19:13:46 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04203 01/14/2017 19:13:48 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04204 01/14/2017 19:13:48 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04205 01/14/2017 19:14:39 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
04206 01/14/2017 19:14:39 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04207 01/14/2017 19:14:45 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.646V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 35C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 17C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7865km
04208 01/14/2017 19:15:45 Disarmed PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.654V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 34C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7865km
04209 01/14/2017 19:16:42 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04210 01/14/2017 19:16:42 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04211 01/14/2017 19:16:45 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 30C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:113.647V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 32C, CtrlTemp: 18C, AmbTemp: 20C, MotRPM: 0, Odo: 7865km
04212 01/14/2017 19:17:04 Power Off Key Switch
So the last bit of my charging, to starting to ride for a bit, noticing the flashing and then then turning the bike on and off a bit to see if that would clear it. I don't see any errors.
I've attached the bike log too. This was from January 14th, around 6:30pm to 8pm.
I could pull the bike and battery logs too later today if you think that would be helpful.
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I can't see that much either but I don't excel at reading logs. Anyway there is now some more information to work from.
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I tried charging with my SC v2 yesterday too. Didn't assemble it in charge tank yet, just a bunch of cords and boxes sitting on the ground for now. Had a couple of issues too :(
One issue was that I never seem to go past 1.3 kW charging rate. It seems like only onboard charger was engaged (stats in Zero app were jumping from 800W to ~1.3 kW, which is expected from Calex). I've tried charging without engaging onboard (while the bike was ON) and interestingly enough, stats in Zero app never showed charge rate, although dashboard displayed charge ETA to be even slower than when using Calex.
Once in a while I would get flashing red charge light (rapid blinking, would stay blinking even after keying bike OFF for a few seconds, but eventually goes away) and for some reason my ABS light would stay on after charging session. Keying bike off and on seems to have fixed ABS light.
During both sessions I would see some lights in controller box but no lights on charger itself would light up. Fan would stay off too (however it's probably temperature-controlled so that's not really an issue) and charger would get slightly warm.
When tested with ChargePoint and onboard disengaged, the light on SC would cycle between red and green. Didn't see that from ClipperCreek station.
I tried 2 ClipperCreek and Chargepoint stations with the same results. Not sure what to try next though.
Logs: http://pastebin.com/mHdd3qX7 (http://pastebin.com/mHdd3qX7)
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Are you sure everything is hooked up right? I set mine up externally also and got 4.6+ kW from a Boch and Juicebox, no problems.
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Are you sure everything is hooked up right? I set mine up externally also and got 4.6+ kW from a Boch and Juicebox, no problems.
The way connectors are made and marked makes it impossible to connect in the wrong way. Here's potato quality picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/lKryljw.jpg)
What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
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I think it's a bit fragile to keep external and loose. Once I get my new bike, I'm going to get the proper plastics and install it. I have side cases, so I don't know how to store it without damaging it, it seems like a top case would be better for that, lay it flat and strap it down.
Okay, dumb question, but, is the aux connector all the way in? I thought I had it in once or twice and it wasn't fully snapped in. Also, do you have a multimeter? You may be able to check the voltage coming out and going in to the charger to see if the circuit is broken somewhere.
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Oh, I'm use to an Elcon, so this doesn't seem heavy to me. :)
What was your SOC when you tried charging? If it was in the 90% + it may not have needed more than the onboard.
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Oh, I'm use to an Elcon, so this doesn't seem heavy to me. :)
What was your SOC when you tried charging? If it was in the 90% + it may not have needed more than the onboard.
Are you carrying Elcon(s) in side cases or top case?
Re SOC, I was at ~50% and I waited a couple of minutes to see if 3.3 kW is going to kick in eventually but it doesn't seem like it did. I'm going to double-check the cord that goes into AUX charger port in Zero if I locked those connector properly just in case and try again.
When you plug Elcon in, do you see correct power readouts in Zero app? For some reason it kept showing "0:00" as estimated time even though bike dashboard seemed to estimate charging time correctly.
Want to add one more thing to my previous message: when engaging both on-board and 3.3 unit, I'd see charging power numbers in the app; however when engaging just 3.3 unit, I would see "N/A" in those readouts.
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What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
Don't. Install it in the tank area if you don't have a Power Tank, otherwise mount it in a reinforced top case or something like a Pelican case.
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What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
Don't. Install it in the tank area if you don't have a Power Tank, otherwise mount it in a reinforced top case or something like a Pelican case.
Any recommendation on what "reinforced case" is? I was hoping that 6.6 unit will fit into tank area but now that I've seen the size 3.3 unit, I'm not 100% sure (although there might be a way depending on how cooling system is implemented for 6.6 I suppose).
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What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
Don't. Install it in the tank area if you don't have a Power Tank, otherwise mount it in a reinforced top case or something like a Pelican case.
Any recommendation on what "reinforced case" is? I was hoping that 6.6 unit will fit into tank area but now that I've seen the size 3.3 unit, I'm not 100% sure (although there might be a way depending on how cooling system is implemented for 6.6 I suppose).
Don't worry about the 6.6 not fitting there. I spoke to Brandon about this when I was installing mine. Essentially they're going to be stacked and share a fan, or something along those lines. He said that it'll fit, so there's no need to worry.
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Don't worry about the 6.6 not fitting there. I spoke to Brandon about this when I was installing mine. Essentially they're going to be stacked and share a fan, or something along those lines. He said that it'll fit, so there's no need to worry.
I was under the same impression but wasn't exactly sure if that's the case ;)
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It should definitely fit. I've seen a 6.6 setup in person and also modeled it in CAD to be sure.
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Short note on modular connector. I'm sure this was/is obvious to many people here on forums but if you're like me and never had Elcons or any other chargers (thus no experience with external power), I didn't really understand how modular cord is supposed to work by just looking at few pictures available.
Modular J plug (left) and 14-50 plug (right):
(http://i.imgur.com/yzeakJw.jpg)
Connectors are seemingly exactly the same on both ends:
(http://i.imgur.com/jQxlvgW.jpg)
However if you turn one of them 180 degrees, they plug into each other like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/dv5NZhZ.jpg)
This is brilliant idea and all the wiring components are super solid.
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Anderson connectors are really designed well, considering how simple they are!
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What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
Don't. Install it in the tank area if you don't have a Power Tank, otherwise mount it in a reinforced top case or something like a Pelican case.
Any recommendation on what "reinforced case" is? I was hoping that 6.6 unit will fit into tank area but now that I've seen the size 3.3 unit, I'm not 100% sure (although there might be a way depending on how cooling system is implemented for 6.6 I suppose).
Not your standard givi monolock, that way there is too much force on that.
A good top case should be fine but it should be mounted (semi)permanently, with perhaps some extra struts on the Zero tail.
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@anton make sure your aux plug is connected in all the way. The charger won't start if it is not. *Safety first* If the fan is not on, it is not charging. I'll give you a call later today to make sure you got it hooked up.
@everybody start paying attention to your voltage more than your SOC. Sometimes the SOC is way off. Your bikes charge upto 116v and most can go to 118v *if you know how to do it* for extra range or power but we do not reccomend anyone do it.
Any way, point is always look at voltage, it is the source of truth. If you see 116v or 115v and 50% SOC you have to press the reset button on your battery to get appropriate SOC again.
When on a road trip I do this like every other charge for the day. And voltage doesn't lie, but the percent does.
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What's your opinion on using it externally? I find it's rather too heavy for top case and takes quite some space.
Don't. Install it in the tank area if you don't have a Power Tank, otherwise mount it in a reinforced top case or something like a Pelican case.
Any recommendation on what "reinforced case" is? I was hoping that 6.6 unit will fit into tank area but now that I've seen the size 3.3 unit, I'm not 100% sure (although there might be a way depending on how cooling system is implemented for 6.6 I suppose).
Not your standard givi monolock, that way there is too much force on that.
A good top case should be fine but it should be mounted (semi)permanently, with perhaps some extra struts on the Zero tail.
The strut support is more important than the case itself - as long as the mass is centered above the top plate (forward bottom of the case), I wouldn't worry about the case as much as the rack.
I've used padding to modestly even out the load and eliminate oscillations of the rack under load when going at highway speeds over bumps, but my Elcon 2500 (at 16lbs with cables) ultimately wound up strapped to the passenger seat in a duffle bag or (recently) a pelican case because it was starting to strain my top rack and the OEM side rack over time.
Terry's top rack has load-bearing tubes running from the plate all the way to the passenger peg mounts. I'd like to get a design for that set up to reproduce regularly.
Note: a 6.6kW SuperCharger unit weighs as much as the Elcon 2500, which illustrates a power/weight ratio improvement of 2.64.
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Short note on modular connector. I'm sure this was/is obvious to many people here on forums but if you're like me and never had Elcons or any other chargers (thus no experience with external power), I didn't really understand how modular cord is supposed to work by just looking at few pictures available.
Modular J plug (left) and 14-50 plug (right):
(http://i.imgur.com/yzeakJw.jpg)
Can someone explain this white J1772 plug. Shouldn't the charger have a female connector?
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Can someone explain this white J1772 plug. Shouldn't the charger have a female connector?
Charger has female connector, so if you want to charge from Level 2 station you just plug connector from station into charger's inlet.
Now if you want to charge from 14-50 RV outlet, you connect these two together. One side goes into 14-50 outlet and the other one plugs into J inlet on your bike.
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Can someone explain this white J1772 plug. Shouldn't the charger have a female connector?
Technically the charger side is male and the J1772 is female but because of the design of the plug you also have some 'male plastic pins' on the J-plug that mate to some 'female plastic pins' on the charger side. Hopefully this pic helps clear things up.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_2309_zpshainhkx2.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_2309_zpshainhkx2.jpg.html)
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Clean install @mrwilsn :o
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Here is a photo of one of the R&D validation units for the 7.9 this does between 6 and 7 kw depending on SOC voltage plus the onboard gets you around 8kW which is why it is the 7.9 kW unit
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298489_10208437981128031_8856978431432886075_n.jpg?oh=d1a6c862b4610a5ab5651f38d908dc88&oe=58FF1607)
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Can someone explain this white J1772 plug. Shouldn't the charger have a female connector?
Charger has female connector, so if you want to charge from Level 2 station you just plug connector from station into charger's inlet.
Now if you want to charge from 14-50 RV outlet, you connect these two together. One side goes into 14-50 outlet and the other one plugs into J inlet on your bike.
Thanks Anton!
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6.6 comes from the charger and 1.3 from your onboard. If you run the onboard from the same jplug as the units and the station can not handle that much power it may trip the breaker or current fault.
So the recomendation is to use a second JPlug for your onboard charger so you can get a full 7.9 kW charging. In the US most stations will trip if you pull more than 6.6 so we recommend using 1 Jplug for the SC and a 2nd JPlug for the onboard.
so the charger is "dumb" and wont roll back current so its draw matches the J1772 request? it just keeps pulling the same?
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I plugged it into a 1.4kW EVSE and it pulled the appropriate current...
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I plugged it into a 1.4kW EVSE and it pulled the appropriate current...
Yeah, both SC versions do a best effort at reading upstream voltage and can be configured what to draw based on that (and specifically dial in the right common power draw for 110V AC). Ideally; I mean, V1 makes a good but imperfect effort but V2 seems much smarter out of the box.
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I plugged it into a 1.4kW EVSE and it pulled the appropriate current...
Yeah, both SC versions do a best effort at reading upstream voltage and can be configured what to draw based on that (and specifically dial in the right common power draw for 110V AC). Ideally; I mean, V1 makes a good but imperfect effort but V2 seems much smarter out of the box.
thats good to hear
this is important to me as I have a 3kw evse near work that runs a low voltage (198v instead of 208v) but I want the larger supercharger... so if it doesnt watch the current draw, it will click off on me... and then I have to reset it.... ive already tripped it a few times doing a quick charge on my ebike. the second you go overcurrent, it cuts off.
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I plugged it into a 1.4kW EVSE and it pulled the appropriate current...
Yeah, both SC versions do a best effort at reading upstream voltage and can be configured what to draw based on that (and specifically dial in the right common power draw for 110V AC). Ideally; I mean, V1 makes a good but imperfect effort but V2 seems much smarter out of the box.
thats good to hear
this is important to me as I have a 3kw evse near work that runs a low voltage (198v instead of 208v) but I want the larger supercharger... so if it doesnt watch the current draw, it will click off on me... and then I have to reset it.... ive already tripped it a few times doing a quick charge on my ebike. the second you go overcurrent, it cuts off.
As Brian noted, the first version of the Supercharger did a decent job of this. In my experience it would occasionally trip the breaker or draw too much current, but most of the time it was plug and play. I'm encouraged to hear that v2 of the Supercharger may do this better. It is nice to feel confident just plugging in and going somewhere else while charging instead of feeling like you have to monitor the charging.
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I plugged it into a 1.4kW EVSE and it pulled the appropriate current...
Yeah, both SC versions do a best effort at reading upstream voltage and can be configured what to draw based on that (and specifically dial in the right common power draw for 110V AC). Ideally; I mean, V1 makes a good but imperfect effort but V2 seems much smarter out of the box.
thats good to hear
this is important to me as I have a 3kw evse near work that runs a low voltage (198v instead of 208v) but I want the larger supercharger... so if it doesnt watch the current draw, it will click off on me... and then I have to reset it.... ive already tripped it a few times doing a quick charge on my ebike. the second you go overcurrent, it cuts off.
Here I'll break ranks a bit and note that SCv1's shipped startup setting of 5kW had to be changed by me and I think a couple of other customers to 3kW because you often need those chargers regularly that had silly "features" like severe voltage droop under load. And bad J signals, of course, which is why there was a startup power setting in the first place. Sigh!
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2577_zpsaetlvspr.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2577_zpsaetlvspr.jpg.html)
Got my diginow today. Remarkable how compact the unit is and well designed cabling. My plan is to mount it in a side case, using an aluminum brace inside the case that will attach to side rack.. Then drill cable holes out the backside of case. But based on the length of the cabling, I'm hoping I'll be able to reach to the bike connections from the side case. They look a little short although I havent done a dry fit yet. . I think I've got all the connectors hooked up right, those ofyou all who have one, do I have it hooked up correct?
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Got my diginow today. Remarkable how compact the unit is and well designed cabling. My plan is to mount it in a side case, using an aluminum brace inside the case that will attach to side rack.. Then drill cable holes out the backside of case. But based on the length of the cabling, I'm hoping I'll be able to reach to the bike connections from the side case. They look a little short although I havent done a dry fit yet. . I think I've got all the connectors hooked up right, those ofyou all who have one, do I have it hooked up correct?
Why is your J1772 inlet assembly so much shorter than mine? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7z9KTMh0W0) (Youtube video of SCv2 connections)
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Looks correct from what I can tell, but I also noticed J inlet is way shorter than mine.
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Yeah all of your cables seem much shorter than mine, especially the J-plug inlet. But it does all look good in how it's connected.
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Yeah all of your cables seem much shorter than mine, especially the J-plug inlet. But it does all look good in how it's connected.
Yea, I noticed that too. I might not be able to reach the aux port if I decide to use the top case. need this snow to go away so I can take some rides with it in top case and side case to see which effects handling more. Haven't had a chance to do any dry fitting yet either, it might work as is but if not, I'm sure diginow can make an extension no problem.
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Got my diginow today. Remarkable how compact the unit is and well designed cabling. My plan is to mount it in a side case, using an aluminum brace inside the case that will attach to side rack.. Then drill cable holes out the backside of case. But based on the length of the cabling, I'm hoping I'll be able to reach to the bike connections from the side case. They look a little short although I havent done a dry fit yet. . I think I've got all the connectors hooked up right, those ofyou all who have one, do I have it hooked up correct?
Why is your J1772 inlet assembly so much shorter than mine? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7z9KTMh0W0) (Youtube video of SCv2 connections)
Perhaps because Brandon knew i wasn't going to install it in the power tank area. I guess for me, shorter is better as it's going to be mounted in a case and the inlet will be mounted in the case wall. I see you got the Tesla adapter, I'm going to have to get one from Brandon before Spring. There are a LOT of Tesla destination chargers in new england.
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Is there anything that you need to do to plug into a Tesla charger? I know there is an adapter but how do you get the station to turn on?
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Is there anything that you need to do to plug into a Tesla charger? I know there is an adapter but how do you get the station to turn on?
You can't plug into a Tesla Supercharger network, but they installed "destination" chargers all over at B&B's and motels. You can just plug in at those if you have the adapter.
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Is there anything that you need to do to plug into a Tesla charger? I know there is an adapter but how do you get the station to turn on?
I'll take a wild guess that the Tesla high-powered wall charger "speaks" J1772 protocol. (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hpwc-hacking.45448/) ...if you believe that.
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Is there anything that you need to do to plug into a Tesla charger? I know there is an adapter but how do you get the station to turn on?
I'll take a wild guess that the Tesla high-powered wall charger "speaks" J1772 protocol. (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hpwc-hacking.45448/) ...if you believe that.
Yup. The non-supercharger Tesla plugs are just J1772 plugs in a different form factor. Thats why a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter works perfectly. There are also people that cut off the tesla plug and put on a standard J1772 EVSE plug.
now the supercharger implementation uses data on the pilot signal pin, and is somewhat proprietary. Theres no public knowledge of its communication that I know of.
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Is there anything that you need to do to plug into a Tesla charger? I know there is an adapter but how do you get the station to turn on?
I'll take a wild guess that the Tesla high-powered wall charger "speaks" J1772 protocol. (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hpwc-hacking.45448/) ...if you believe that.
Yup. The non-supercharger Tesla plugs are just J1772 plugs in a different form factor. Thats why a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter works perfectly. There are also people that cut off the tesla plug and put on a standard J1772 EVSE plug.
now the supercharger implementation uses data on the pilot signal pin, and is somewhat proprietary. Theres no public knowledge of its communication that I know of.
It's more than somewhat proprietary, in case anyone is tempted; it authenticates the owner and vehicle against a database cryptographically. There's some vendor operating in a gray area that can enable this for people, but it's a bit of a dodge as I recall (I can't recall how to find them presently).
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1C charging in action by Brandon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPdR2cpxmUM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPdR2cpxmUM)
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Hey Erasmo you know with some brackets and weather proof "compartments" your fairing setup would give you some interesting frontal mounting options.
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Hey Erasmo you know with some brackets and weather proof "compartments" your fairing setup would give you some interesting frontal mounting options.
Maybe later but for now it will be installed in a top case. And I have to say, the front fairing has large enough 'pockets' to accommodate some small storage but I think the SCV2 is too big for that.
Oh the mennekes inlet is done:
(http://i.imgur.com/jbUNqKJ.jpg)
Brandon rightfully coined the term ''mennekes Medusa'' for this one ;D
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What is the formula to figure charging times past 80%, for example if a 7.9kw charger charges a 16.3kw pack from 0-80% in 1:05, how long to finish the other 20%? Also, is the time (from 80-100%) the same for a 6.6kw charger?
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What is the formula to figure charging times past 80%, for example if a 7.9kw charger charges a 16.3kw pack from 0-80% in 1:05, how long to finish the other 20%? Also, is the time (from 80-100%) the same for a 6.6kw charger?
The final phase is CV (constant voltage) and power tends to decrease linearly in this phase. So the integral of that is more or less parabolic which means constantly decreasing returns once voltage hits the setting (116V uncompensated). The shortcut mental math would probably be that you're charging at 2/3rds rate.
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Chargetank cowl arrived for my Super Charger install. Modified the digiNow J1772 inlet with a box cutter knife and some repetitive scoring to remove the "tabs". Zip-tied the modified inlet to the cowl. Also the J1772 inlet assembly is very stiff sealing compound in it for a long length and it doesn't bend to allow for installation.
First 3.3kW digiNow charging session on Sunday 12th March 2017. Very excited to upgrade to 9.9kW as soon as it's ready.
I talked to Brandon / digiNow he was surprised there was no bracket included with my Chargetank cowl. Mine is just zip-tied into place for now. There were no fasteners included with my J1772 inlet assembly.
Is there a bracket? How do you mount a digiNow inlet to a Chargetank cowl?
Pictures:
(http://i.imgur.com/9pIGIKb.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/uKlmd0R.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/UV60Obr.jpg)
*edit 20170315* Possibly there is a Zero P/N 12-08047 "Charge Tank Hardware and Inlet Bracket Kit" now waiting to see if I can get one sold to me; Brandon says the inlet bracket kit sounds right. Meanwhile can anyone else confirm?
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Chargetank cowl arrived for my Super Charger install. Modified the digiNow J1772 inlet with a box cutter knife and some repetitive scoring to remove the "tabs". Zip-tied the modified inlet to the cowl. Also the J1772 inlet assembly is very stiff sealing compound in it for a long length and it doesn't bend to allow for installation.
First 3.3kW digiNow charging session on Sunday 12th March 2017. Very excited to upgrade to 9.9kW as soon as it's ready.
I talked to Brandon / digiNow he was surprised there was no bracket included with my Chargetank cowl. Mine is just zip-tied into place for now. There were no fasteners included with my J1772 inlet assembly.
Is there a bracket? How do you mount a digiNow inlet to a Chargetank cowl?
*edit 20170315* Possibly there is a Zero P/N 12-08047 "Charge Tank Hardware and Inlet Bracket Kit" now waiting to see if I can get one sold to me; Brandon says the inlet bracket kit sounds right. Meanwhile can anyone else confirm?
There isn't a bracket needed. Just two bolts with a tappered head, two washers, two lock washers and two hex nuts.
Here is a photo of the bolts, washers and nuts sitting on top of my SCv1 with the inlet resting in the right position for mounting to the charge tank plastic.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_2408_zpsiqip2nwc.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_2408_zpsiqip2nwc.jpg.html)
Slide the inlet in from the bottom of the charge tank like so with the notch side of the inlet facing the rear. That notch will rest in the notch on the charge tank creating a third pressure point after you use the two bolts through the two holes on the front side of the J-inlet. The two holes on the rear of the inlet will not be used.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w410/TheMrwilsn/IMG_2406_zpson60ddhn.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/TheMrwilsn/media/IMG_2406_zpson60ddhn.jpg.html)
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I installed mine with the zero bracket. It makes for a solid attachment for the 1772. It supports the cowl as well through the front two bolts. It's a little difficult to get the entire digi 1772 cabling through the bends. that may be a result of working in a pushing lot after dark in 25 degree weather though.
I did have to adjust the holes on the digi 1772 base flange but the cowl and zero base line up perfectly so I'm not worried about any shifting during use.
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I installed mine with the zero bracket. It makes for a solid attachment for the 1772. It supports the cowl as well through the front two bolts. It's a little difficult to get the entire digi 1772 cabling through the bends. that may be a result of working in a pushing lot after dark in 25 degree weather though.
I did have to adjust the holes on the digi 1772 base flange but the cowl and zero base line up perfectly so I'm not worried about any shifting during use.
Excellent report, thanks! Zero P/N 12-08047 "Charge Tank Hardware and Inlet Bracket Kit" cost is $106 plus tax, confirmed with both Grand Canyon Cycles and Hollywood Electrics. Harlan (Hollywood Electrics) confirms that it is just a bracket no fasteners or other hardware. I think I will order it, but wow $100+ for a bracket sounds kind of much, what is it a bent metal punched shape?
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Yes, it's on the spectrum of crazy parts costs. But I like to think of it as $200 less than the cost of the same stamped, drilled, tapped and bent piece of kit with a BMW part number. Zero seems to be all over the place with their parts costs. Neighbor breaks your mirror, $20, need a new dash unit, I could never source $(not insane), cost of stamped metal $100! I should have taken photos during the install but I was cold and grumpy (not related to the diginow).
If you consider making the bracket on your own would probably take at least two hours. With at best the same sturdy, well designed result, likely a slightly rougher install or fitment. It starts to make sense to cry a little and give away money.
In my life build time does have a cost. Maybe you have a workshop with strap steel laying around, then maybe you'd get it down to 45 mins. Maybe it's installed well the first time. After that any shop tech crawling around in there will have a new hiccup to comprehend before moving forward. I find it best to mot make professionals hiccup, always goes bad for me.
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Zero seems to be all over the place with their parts costs. Neighbor breaks your mirror, $20, need a new dash unit, I could never source $(not insane), cost of stamped metal $100!
It makes sense if you look at the sourcing.
Mirror? 3rd party item purchased in bulk and stocked. cheap.
Dash? 3rd party item, slightly customized. fairly cheap.
bracket? low production stamped in the USA... expensive.
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Anymore reviews of the DigiNow?
I'm wondering if all the bugs are worked out and what is the availability of 6.6 kW.
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Anymore reviews of the DigiNow?
I'm wondering if all the bugs are worked out and what is the availability of 6.6 kW.
Pretty sure - based on videos and social media postings - the two and three module configurations are good to go, electrically speaking. There's probably some lead time for manufacturing that's holding things up while the thermal management prototypes are fabricated and developed... I don't think I've heard anything to indicate that the three module configuration has gotten further than electrical systems testing, so if you wanted 1C right now it's not all going to mount cleanly under the cowl yet.
Not intending to utterly complicate things, I did confuse the dealership and Brandon briefly with a request to hold out for the three module under-cowl setup. Since my 2016 Fathers Day SCV1 order was converted to a SCV2 two module in deliverable value, and to get things moving I was shipped an one module system, I'm going to buy the third module under-cowl system and take delivery of the next two modules at once. The thermal management I must presume is very different for the two and three module configurations, so it is my hope to wait it out and get 1C charging capability.
There's not much to review on the one module system, you plug it in and it works without any effort. I've got the bracket installed and have some miles on that setup now.
Today I made some updates to the Unofficial Manual wiki (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5925.msg55400#msg55400) that includes some more photos of my initial setup with a Chargetank inlet bracket and chargetank plastics.
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Anymore reviews of the DigiNow?
I'm wondering if all the bugs are worked out and what is the availability of 6.6 kW.
End of April - beginning of May mine should be installed.
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Anymore reviews of the DigiNow?
I'm wondering if all the bugs are worked out and what is the availability of 6.6 kW.
There was a harmless bug with the oldest revision of the control board (I'm pretty sure no one has those anymore) that Brandon fixed in newer revision. Did not affect charging or running in any way, just some log lines being printed out. Plus new board boots up very quickly now.
I've been running 6.6 kW PowerTank cover setup for a while now for semi-long trips (~600 mi) and it has been pretty much flawless as far as I can tell. Unless someone posts installation photos sooner than next week, I could probably take it apart and document.
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I've been running 6.6 kW PowerTank cover setup for a while now for semi-long trips (~600 mi) and it has been pretty much flawless as far as I can tell. Unless someone posts installation photos sooner than next week, I could probably take it apart and document.
I have not seen any photos showing the upgrade of a single 3.3kW module to a two module under-cowl. Would like to see how that is, and how it sits in the tank area.
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Rode 200mi this morning, am about 120mi along the return trip and charging. For a 400mi day trip that works out to three full charges between legs of the trip, 2.5 hrs each charging session. 7hrs+ just charging... too slow for my liking. When will three module SCv2 be ready :P
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I rode from the Bay Area to Los Angeles today using 4 SCv2's right at the 1C charge limit (I have a powertank, otherwise you can only use 3 Superchargers) and went about 400 miles in under 10 hours carrying a dog and a dog crate full of empty SCv2 boxes down to Brandon's house so he can use them for shipping. I'm bringing up 8 more SCv2's to the Bay Area tomorrow for installs Brandon is doing Tuesday for BrianTRice, ToGo, and a Zero owner from Farasis.
So this will be about 800 miles in about 20 hours of riding. Someone with a 2016 or 2017 13.0 and a 3.3 powertank could perhaps attempt an Iron Butt (1000 miles in 24 hours) with the DigiNow SCv2's. I have a 2015 with a 12.5 monolith and my aero is pretty bad carrying a dog and a dog crate full of chargers. Surely someone out there could do a lot better than I did today.
Brandon did a few more installs today in the Scotts Valley area for Luke and Killroy. He couldn't carry enough tools and chargers in his Nissan Leaf so he sends me down on the Zero to pick up 8 more chargers, lol.
But by far this was my fastest trip on my non Vetter Zero. These SCv2's are small, light, and powerful and don't overheat like the SCv1 did. Very efficient meaning more power from the station goes to charging the battery instead of making waste heat!
Its been 5 years of waiting but there is finally a charging solution to make Zero's road trip worthy that is weather proof and isn't heavy and bulky.
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So this will be about 800 miles in about 20 hours of riding. Someone with a 2016 or 2017 13.0 and a 3.3 powertank could perhaps attempt an Iron Butt (1000 miles in 24 hours) with the DigiNow SCv2's. I have a 2015 with a 12.5 monolith and my aero is pretty bad carrying a dog and a dog crate full of chargers. Surely someone out there could do a lot better than I did today.
It is on my to do list :D By my estimates the key to an ironbut is 1C charging and 1 - 1.5 hours of riding at 70mph. (minimal speed) What I haven't figured out yet is how I will deal with 1 hours of rest throughout the day and how it will affect the attempt.
I have done 600-800 on day trips with my gas bike when I had one and those lasted "all day" ... leaving at 7am coming home at 11pm and were a mix of highway and mountain roads. Your butt gets pretty sore by the end of one of those trips ... and your legs can get weak; so much so it is easy to drop the bike when "parking" it toward the end of the day >__< (did this on several trips when I finally got home)
When I get my 1C equivalent chargers installed I will start taking "day trips" again to test the waters and see what it does. First day trips will likely be 300-500 miles (might sound like a lot but it isn't) just to see how it goes then build up from there.
Then I will build out a plan to see how I might best do an iron butt and avoid traffic issues. Since I am on the east coast and it is hard to find good clear highways which have high speeds, and we cannot lane split here :/ This might mean I will have to make more than one attempt but we shale see.
Oh ... and I still have the 2013 battery pack on my bike (working on getting it replaced) so it will be "interesting" to see how much 1Kw makes when the swap happens.
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I rode from the Bay Area to Los Angeles today using 4 SCv2's right at the 1C charge limit (I have a powertank, otherwise you can only use 3 Superchargers) and went about 400 miles in under 10 hours carrying a dog and a dog crate full of empty SCv2 boxes down to Brandon's house so he can use them for shipping. I'm bringing up 8 more SCv2's to the Bay Area tomorrow for installs Brandon is doing Tuesday for BrianTRice, ToGo, and a Zero owner from Farasis.
That's really impressive! Exceeding 40mph average overall trip speed is a great benchmark and probably a record for an unfaired Zero on the Bay-LA run. My best was still between 11 and 12 hours (between my early stumbling runs and later when I took it slow through Big Sur, I didn't get much of a record attempt in, mostly playing it safe). And thanks for making a speed run in the name of delivering more of these. :)
So this will be about 800 miles in about 20 hours of riding. Someone with a 2016 or 2017 13.0 and a 3.3 powertank could perhaps attempt an Iron Butt (1000 miles in 24 hours) with the DigiNow SCv2's. I have a 2015 with a 12.5 monolith and my aero is pretty bad carrying a dog and a dog crate full of chargers. Surely someone out there could do a lot better than I did today.
I know that with aero improvements and a power tank, we might get that run down to 9 hours. I'm trying to focus to get something together soon and might be really busy with that for a while. I really want to reach that point and enjoy this riding season as much as I can on a Zero.
Brandon did a few more installs today in the Scotts Valley area for Luke and Killroy. He couldn't carry enough tools and chargers in his Nissan Leaf so he sends me down on the Zero to pick up 8 more chargers, lol.
But by far this was my fastest trip on my non Vetter Zero. These SCv2's are small, light, and powerful and don't overheat like the SCv1 did. Very efficient meaning more power from the station goes to charging the battery instead of making waste heat!
Its been 5 years of waiting but there is finally a charging solution to make Zero's road trip worthy that is weather proof and isn't heavy and bulky.
Thanks for helping us get there!
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I rode from the Bay Area to Los Angeles today using 4 SCv2's right at the 1C charge limit (I have a powertank, otherwise you can only use 3 Superchargers) and went about 400 miles in under 10 hours carrying a dog and a dog crate full of empty SCv2 boxes down to Brandon's house so he can use them for shipping. I'm bringing up 8 more SCv2's to the Bay Area tomorrow for installs Brandon is doing Tuesday for BrianTRice, ToGo, and a Zero owner from Farasis.
Brandon did a few more installs today in the Scotts Valley area for Luke and Killroy. He couldn't carry enough tools and chargers in his Nissan Leaf so he sends me down on the Zero to pick up 8 more chargers, lol.
So does this mean Brandon has to do the 6.6kW SCv2 installs? Or is he just installing it to make sure it's done right?
I'm just curious since I have my 3.3kW installed right now and am eager for the other half.
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So does this mean Brandon has to do the 6.6kW SCv2 installs? Or is he just installing it to make sure it's done right?
I'm just curious since I have my 3.3kW installed right now and am eager for the other half.
I'm just up here getting feedback and test data for 1C tests. Doing the SCv1 upgrades while I am here.
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So does this mean Brandon has to do the 6.6kW SCv2 installs? Or is he just installing it to make sure it's done right?
I'm just curious since I have my 3.3kW installed right now and am eager for the other half.
I'm just up here getting feedback and test data for 1C tests. Doing the SCv1 upgrades while I am here.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for letting me know!
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Here is the 6.6 kW Diginow under the locking tank with plenty of room for another 3.3 kW module, or some Californian Epic Burritos warmed by the chargers.
Today, I was at another station and there was a normal NEMA 5-15 outlet right next to the EV charge station so I could also plug in the on board charger for a total of 7.9 kW. YEAH!
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s280x280/18057959_10155127751851380_1756243299832756400_n.jpg?oh=75c429f7230ce6ba73e7c2cf3dc0aeea&oe=598CB17D)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118489_10155127751921380_8738569803787397258_n.jpg?oh=6af056caff31eae0ce0e60f3223f2532&oe=599006E3)
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Nice Killroy! Glad you are charging fast too now! I like it with the tank cover and storage area!
Also where is that dual head ChargePoint station in your picture? I don't recognize it.
Here are some pics from yesterday. The real shame and tragedy in the whole thing was carrying around 40 kW of chargers and only being able to use 13.2 kW of them. ;) ;)
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Good old CalPoly. My parents went there. Great pics!
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Also where is that dual head ChargePoint station in your picture? I don't recognize it.
1. The top picture is Saratoga City Hall (CA).
2. The bottom picture was in Campbell right of of HWY 880 @ Hamilton. There is a Kokls there and there is no fee for that charger and it is really close to my house.
3. The location of the charge stations that I was referring to with the additional NEMA outlets was in San Jose on 1st street. https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/94717
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@ElectricTerry nice modules placement on the drop bars. Do you also use the on-board charger or is that too much power into the battery system?
Having a PowerTank installed is definitely more compelling when combined with 1C charging for the system, and some place to mount those chargers.
How does the mass of 4x SCv2 modules on the drop bars feel in terms of bike handling?
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I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
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I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
Cool! Does that mean that you have the 13.2 kW version? How do you wire this at 3 fases?
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I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
(http://www.gestaltreality.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/morpheus-red-pill-blue-pill-300x285.jpg)
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Here is the 6.6 kW Diginow under the locking tank with plenty of room for another 3.3 kW module, or some Californian Epic Burritos warmed by the chargers.
Today, I was at another station and there was a normal NEMA 5-15 outlet right next to the EV charge station so I could also plug in the on board charger for a total of 7.9 kW. YEAH!
So you cut off storage container itself from the rest of the tank plastics?
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Yes, I took a dremmel and cut out the storage 'bucket' with exception to the section that gets held to the frame with 2 screws. The sins of the cut are mostly hidden under the tank. It looks good.
I also had to remove the helmet lock, which was not easy, but there is some information on it on the "unofficial manual". And there is a ground terminal that I had to screw down somewhere else.
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Yes, I took a dremmel and cut out the storage 'bucket' with exception to the section that gets held to the frame with 2 screws. The sins of the cut are mostly hidden under the tank. It looks good.
I also had to remove the helmet lock, which was not easy, but there is some information on it on the "unofficial manual". And there is a ground terminal that I had to screw down somewhere else.
What was the need to remove helmet lock for?
I currently have '16 PowerTank plastic with J inlet mounted on it but thinking about switching to your style.
How weatherproof is the lid itself?
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I have a 2015, so it came with a helmet lock and the zipper bag (just to be clear).
The 2017 locking tank interferes with the 2015 helmet lock, but it has 2 helmet lock features built in to the tank that can lock a helmet when you close the top and lock it. I can't use it if I'm charging, but I can use my top case.
The helmet lock was not great in that location anyway. I was never able to lock a helmet there without a cable loop!
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I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
Cool! Does that mean that you have the 13.2 kW version? How do you wire this at 3 fases?
IIRC only two phases are used at this moment, each 6.6kW unit has it own phase.
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I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
Cool! Does that mean that you have the 13.2 kW version? How do you wire this at 3 fases?
IIRC only two phases are used at this moment, each 6.6kW unit has it own phase.
You can probably use the third phase for the onboard charger.
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Anymore reviews of the DigiNow?
I'm wondering if all the bugs are worked out and what is the availability of 6.6 kW.
v1 upgrades seem to be proceeding rapidly, and there's a rumor that engineers at Zero and Faresis now own units.
My two-unit config is giving 5800 watts, a pretty safe value for a single j-plug these days, and with two-jplugs I get close to 10KW, 1C for a nominial 10KWH bike (ZF11.4 battery)
Pretty sure - based on videos and social media postings - the two and three module configurations are good to go, electrically speaking. There's probably some lead time for manufacturing that's holding things up while the thermal management prototypes are fabricated and developed... I don't think I've heard anything to indicate that the three module configuration has gotten further than electrical systems testing, so if you wanted 1C right now it's not all going to mount cleanly under the cowl yet.
Not intending to utterly complicate things, I did confuse the dealership and Brandon briefly with a request to hold out for the three module under-cowl setup. Since my 2016 Fathers Day SCV1 order was converted to a SCV2 two module in deliverable value, and to get things moving I was shipped an one module system, I'm going to buy the third module under-cowl system and take delivery of the next two modules at once. The thermal management I must presume is very different for the two and three module configurations, so it is my hope to wait it out and get 1C charging capability.
There's not much to review on the one module system, you plug it in and it works without any effort. I've got the bracket installed and have some miles on that setup now.
Today I made some updates to the Unofficial Manual wiki (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5925.msg55400#msg55400) that includes some more photos of my initial setup with a Chargetank inlet bracket and chargetank plastics.
Thanks for posting the unboxing videos!
Yes, two bricks fit neatly, third brick is awkward to try to get under cowl. The stack would be too tall, and it's not bolted together with the first two, which have two very effective fans that pull air through shard heat sinks, exit at the end. The third is more independent, stacks awkwardly, and has its own larger fan. If you tried to fit it under the cowl, you'd definitely need an opening on top, but it's too tall, really. Maybe if you made a spacer, lifted the whole thing up...?
I made a quick four-hole piece on the way home at techshop to keep the third brick neatly in place on top of the first two, without sliding, just big enough capture the bolt-heads and otherwise allow airflow. My own intent it to fab myself a new cowl tall enough to lay my chest on, and a narrower than stock so I can bring legs in closer, narrow the big fairing, reduce my aero cross section.
So, yeah, I don't mind the stack being too tall to fit under the cowl. I'll take some pictures later, and also share plans for whatever I fab. It'll probably be lasercut plywood since I can iterate fast on that, get toward a good shape, and then either cover that in carbon fiber and epoxy or recut in something more durable. Clear acrylic might be interesting, but something lighter might be good.
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I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
Cool! Does that mean that you have the 13.2 kW version? How do you wire this at 3 fases?
IIRC only two phases are used at this moment, each 6.6kW unit has it own phase.
You can probably use the third phase for the onboard charger.
I've discussed that with EC but in the end we choose not to do it since even without you're getting close to 1C charging in most situations.
Also, like I kinda expected if you're planning to fly with these make sure to receive some extra attention from the TSA ::)
(http://i.imgur.com/fTH6PIk.jpg?1)
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In the last week I have put on over 600 miles using mostly the DigiNow 6.6 kW charger and it works great.
I never had a J1772 socket to charge before, so not I have more options to charge and faster.
I purposely went to as many different kinds of charge stations as I could find (Charge Point, Clipper Creek, Siemens, Schneider, SemaConnect, AV, Volta). As long as the there was no previous issue with the charge station when I rolled up, the charge worked. I did try and charge at a Volta station that had a fault, I called the help number, but since it was after business hours, no one called back, so I just moved to another station near by. Apparently, Volta stations have, get faulted by cars and get stuck that way for a while.
Here is the hardware and you can see the two 3.3 kW units bolted together with the two boxy fans.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g163/killroy1999/IMG_7671_zpswbpxnfcb.jpg)
Here is the space that it goes in.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g163/killroy1999/IMG_7670_zpskcyg9tu5.jpg)
Here is it installed.
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g163/killroy1999/IMG_7679_zpsguzffn4m.jpg)
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Man I wish my bike was as "clean" as Killroy's lol I worked last weekend to try to straighten up the "flipped" birds nest a bit in preparation for the chargers being in the place where I use to have all my wires. (Yeah all my wires are on TOP of the battery ... which is still a 2013 battery btw so my install should be "unique" as it has to run through my controller)
My SC2 should be coming in sometime in the near future as well ... same unit as yours with a later expansion to a third unit >:)
But before that ... I am going to install a CA HC unit on the bike, there is likely to be documentation to come with this and a new post when I have time to write one up. :D
Just thinking about the CA-HC and I just realized this is yet more crap I am putting on my bike I am going to have to find a location for :/ ... I might have to make another "mod" to the bike before this to better manage accessories.
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I was asked on Facebook if the DigiNow can be used with a European Mennekes Typ 2 socket. Anyone know of any issues?
Why did they go with 2 standards for a EV plug???
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Mine has one.
No idea(and yes the Mennekes is superior to the J1772 ;D)
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2. The bottom picture was in Campbell right of of HWY 880 @ Hamilton. There is a Kokls there and there is no fee for that charger and it is really close to my house.
Do they still turn that one off when the store's not open?
I finally have mine at home, they should be getting installed somewhere in May. The 13.2kW fluid cooled version sure comes with a lot of wires :o With the next winter ahead, I'm wondering what the right coolant for the system is, red or blue.
You got the liquid cooled because of hot climate?
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You got the liquid cooled because of hot climate?
Holland and hot climate. Not really ... :-[
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...
Just thinking about the CA-HC and I just realized this is yet more crap I am putting on my bike I am going to have to find a location for :/ ... I might have to make another "mod" to the bike before this to better manage accessories.
Vetter front fairing? I saw Alan Smith's in person Saturday. Way more rigid than my airtech. Slightly thicker material, but mostly, I think, because of the 90 degree lip. Anyway, there's lots and lots of room inside a big fairing, and forward weight gives good aero stability into the wind.
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Togo you are correct the vetter fairing is pretty ridged for sure.
My turret is mounted with 3/8" aluminum plate followed by the turret and another 3/16" sheet to secure the turret ... it isn't going anywhere.
I took all the extra electronics in the tank area and flipped them into the turret area. So now the main cable goes to the koso which is ziptied to the bars, previously it was floating in the tank area and supported via a rain coat.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2846/34387834805_28cab358cf.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UoJDex)
The mode switch button was moved to the bars, and several other cables hooking into that bundle were rerouted to the turret from the tank area.
I also strengthened my rain blocker up front. I had previously installed a plexiglass cover up front to block rain / snow for winter a while back and simply forgot about it. But I migrated my DC:DC up there so I had to strengthen it up a bit. I also threw some other items up there and moved the main cables to either side. Need to paint it though.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2843/34257524951_6e670dcb71.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UcdLDV)
As it stands now the main cables are left with the MMB and the CCU is on the right ... fueses are up front as well as the flasher . I forget where the reaper dongle is but it to is likely up front.
When I get the chargers in it will all make more sense :D
I might make a better way to secure items behind the battery if needed as I still have my project box, the power supply for it, and several accessories to locate. The project box has to be kind of close to my tank as it houses the antenna for my RFID reader. (this bike doesn't have an ignition / key set)
This is what the bike looked like after removing my rain coat and tank (birds nest isn't behind the battery on my bike but on top of it :D )
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4166/34387837925_55b3d52445.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UoJEak)
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Nice photos, Burton. I just received my 2-unit SCv2 and got them mounted on the crash bars with some help from Brandon.
Some notes:
- The mount is provisional but proves that it works fine.
- I removed the side plastic panels.
- The stock out of the box wiring is not of sufficient length to span the battery hence the provisional nature. We should source the right connectors to make extension wiring easy to set up for others.
- The chargers deserve some brackets to align them and give some protection from the elements.
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2. The bottom picture was in Campbell right of of HWY 880 @ Hamilton. There is a Kokls there and there is no fee for that charger and it is really close to my house.
Do they still turn that one off when the store's not open?
PlugShare says available during business ours.
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I happened to meet @ElectricCowboy and was asked to test some prototype ducting for the air-cooled three module under-the-cowl setup. No photos of my install for the moment as they would not reflect the final product. There are a few people now testing this.
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I happened to meet @ElectricCowboy and was asked to test some prototype ducting for the air-cooled three module under-the-cowl setup. No photos of my install for the moment as they would not reflect the final product. There are a few people now testing this.
newbie question: What are the possible advantages/disadvantages of a liquid cooled system? I'm looking forward to buying a 3-module under-cowl setup.
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newbie question: What are the possible advantages/disadvantages of a liquid cooled system? I'm looking forward to buying a 3-module under-cowl setup.
Advantages: more efficient heat transfer, especially if you live in hot climate.
Disadvantages: harder to fix on a side of a road, possibly harder to install.
I haven't used liquid cooling system personally, so my opinions are purely theoretical.
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newbie question: What are the possible advantages/disadvantages of a liquid cooled system? I'm looking forward to buying a 3-module under-cowl setup.
Advantages: more efficient heat transfer, especially if you live in hot climate.
Disadvantages: harder to fix on a side of a road, possibly harder to install.
I haven't used liquid cooling system personally, so my opinions are purely theoretical.
Liquid cooling weighs more as well
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You got the liquid cooled because of hot climate?
Holland and hot climate. Not really ... :-[
On of the reasons is that you can charge with the top case closed, which is handy during the rain or if I want to grab a bite out of sight while the bike is charging.
Finally found a suitable Peli Case, the Peli Storm IM2620.
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newbie question: What are the possible advantages/disadvantages of a liquid cooled system? I'm looking forward to buying a 3-module under-cowl setup.
Three modules are a very tight fit into the under-cowl area. If you had liquid cooling plates and bolt all three units together with two plates as a sandwich, then you can move that heat away to another location on the bike and run your heatsink and fans elsewhere on the bike, with greater flexibility in how large the fans and heatsink may be. It would be very effective for thermal management but adds weight and complexity, and also the potential for boiling or freezing, with concerns about biological growth and leaks. If the pump fails then you have that problem to contend with also.
Anyways you have to deal with a temperature rise in the Zero battery system for charging above 4kW rate, for best longevity this is not allowed to exceed 50degC temperature. Liquid cooling of the SCv2 system may or may not have any measurable effect there.
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Can you guys tell me what kind of connection comes with the diginow to connect it to 110V? Is it a standard three prong plug? Also when you want to charge to a 240V can you use the old J1772 adapter from Hollywood Electric with the C19/C20 plugs or are they different?
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Can you guys tell me what kind of connection comes with the diginow to connect it to 110V? Is it a standard three prong plug? Also when you want to charge to a 240V can you use the old J1772 adapter from Hollywood Electric with the C19/C20 plugs or are they different?
If you buy a single diginow, it comes with a 110v socket. You can charge with J1772 same time the 3.3kw module, and the onboard 1.3kw. If you get the diginow 6.6, you have to disconnect the 110v adapter to hook in the second 3.3 module. So, to use the onboard you'll need a J1772 to 110v adapter to run off a second J1772 station.
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It's just an adapter that has 110V plug on one end and Anderson connector on the other end. That Anderson connector goes into your J plug.
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Can you guys tell me what kind of connection comes with the diginow to connect it to 110V? Is it a standard three prong plug? Also when you want to charge to a 240V can you use the old J1772 adapter from Hollywood Electric with the C19/C20 plugs or are they different?
If you buy a single diginow, it comes with a 110v socket. You can charge with J1772 same time the 3.3kw module, and the onboard 1.3kw. If you get the diginow 6.6, you have to disconnect the 110v adapter to hook in the second 3.3 module. So, to use the onboard you'll need a J1772 to 110v adapter to run off a second J1772 station.
I thought you could use a single J1772 plug to supply power to two Dignows like. you can with the Elcons. I suppose I'll just get one Diginow when I can afford it. I can sell my J1772 plug from Hollywood Electric along as well. Thanks guys.
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I thought you could use a single J1772 plug to supply power to two Dignows like. you can with the Elcons. I suppose I'll just get one Diginow when I can afford it. I can sell my J1772 plug from Hollywood Electric along as well. Thanks guys.
The assumption is made that each J1772 power source is 220VAC (two legs i.e. L1 and L2 of 110VAC) totaling no greater than 6.6kW (as most ChargePoint stations have this limitation).
If you have one SCv2 module 3.3kW on L1, and some kind of hookup for the onboard charger on L2, then you are going to be under the 6.6kW presumed limitation.
However if you add an additional SCv2 module to this arrangement, the total power load will exceed 6.6kW and you're likely to trip most stations that are common in the USA.
It is for this scenario where you would be preferred to either:
A) Run two SCv2 modules from L1 and L2 (really in any arrangement 110Vac or 220Vac I think although there is probably some good reason to run each off a different power leg) and a second charge station connection for the onboard hookup
B) Run one SCv2 module from L1 and the onboard hookup from L2, and the second SCv2 module runs on another charging station connection.
The actual connections provided with installation may vary and in my initial installation of one SCv2 module from L1 there was a pigtail for Edison plug on L2 that I make accessible to connect with my onboard charging kettle cord power cable.
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This makes me sad. I thought I'd be charging at 6.6kW with two, from a single EVSE. But if that pop's the breakers, there's not much that can be done. I suppose 4.6 is all I'll have for now. :(
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This makes me sad. I thought I'd be charging at 6.6kW with two, from a single EVSE. But if that pop's the breakers, there's not much that can be done. I suppose 4.6 is all I'll have for now. :(
Correct, there are some less powerful or wrongly installed EVSE out there that will fault with two SCv2 one on each leg. In these situations it has been useful that I connect with the single SCv2 and try adding in the onboard as well, that usually works. At that rate though you might as well go hunt for another station that can handle your two SCv2.
When you have more charging capability you will get motivated to map out which stations can handle your power requirements and forget about the weaker stations. At the worst eventuality you would charge from the onboard so all you are doing is adding the capability to accept power from stations that can give it.
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When you have more charging capability you will get motivated to map out which stations can handle your power requirements and forget about the weaker stations. At the worst eventuality you would charge from the onboard so all you are doing is adding the capability to accept power from stations that can give it.
And of course update that information to Plugshare, right? ;)
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In a Tesla, it slowly increases the amperage. If the voltage drops, it throttles back before it trips the breaker or starts a fire. Could the controller on the Supercharger do something similar, watch for voltage sag and throttle back as needed?
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In a Tesla, it slowly increases the amperage. If the voltage drops, it throttles back before it trips the breaker or starts a fire. Could the controller on the Supercharger do something similar, watch for voltage sag and throttle back as needed?
The controller on the SCv2 is capable of many things, for additional parts cost and complexity (read: hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours testing).
In real world use I just move on to a station that's been installed correctly. In a bit of irony, the most recent stations that would fault on two SCv2 modules was at the Clipper Creek headquarters. I think they're mostly older units that have been installed outside the offices.
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But, if I have both installed in my tank, how do I disconnect them/reconnect them on the fly depending on the station I'm at?
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People get mad as it is when you pull up and an ICE vehicle is parked in an EV spot. Can you imagine if you pull up and a motorcycle left an open space but is using both charging stations?
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But, if I have both installed in my tank, how do I disconnect them/reconnect them on the fly depending on the station I'm at?
The SCv2 system should not care if you used some common household wiring plugs. You would need them to be rated for the Amperage involved but it's no more complicated than that. See how I did mine: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Leave-In_Kettle_Cord (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Leave-In_Kettle_Cord)
It could just as easily be that your second SCv2 has the plug made available to connect, as it would be like I have it to leave the kettle cord always in and available to leave connected or to disconnect.
I found it useful to have the onboard always connected because it saves me a few minutes here and there. Occasionally though the station will ground fault because of the presence (or lack of) a ground pin. I have a cheater plug that I put between the pigtail coming off one leg of the J1772 and the kettle cord that goes to the onboard charger, depending on the whimsy of however the EVSE I'm at is wired. Nothing at all to do with the SCv2 system it's just how EVSE charging tends to be where I have traveled.
People get mad as it is when you pull up and an ICE vehicle is parked in an EV spot. Can you imagine if you pull up and a motorcycle left an open space but is using both charging stations?
Yes that is curious. I got double-ICE'd at a station recently and still managed to squeeze between the vehicles to do a 10kW charge session.
Also there have been times where I'm hooking up both stations to my system and another EV rolls up in the spot next to me, they look at me and say "Oh hey thanks for getting my station ready" and then take the plug out of my bike. It's kind of hopeless to explain. They're often in a plug-in hybrid. The fully electric owners I find tend to either "get it" and ask that I plug them in when I'm done or they're completely unsure of how to interact with other EV owners.
I have been thinking about making a clearly labelled instruction in writing that says I will only be 1 hour and to leave your EV power inlet door open, I will plug you in when I am done. If you are in an emergency please only unplug one of my inlets (and to be clear which one).
Ideally though you max out your charging capabilities and never leave your charging bike unattended.
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People get mad as it is when you pull up and an ICE vehicle is parked in an EV spot. Can you imagine if you pull up and a motorcycle left an open space but is using both charging stations?
Both stations and only pulling 3.3kW from one and 4.6kW from the other. "Only".
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I made an etiquette section on the unofficial manual just to index some recommendations and some cable tags that I've found helpful:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/EV_Charging#Etiquette (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/EV_Charging#Etiquette)
I bought a set of cable tags and will try using them, but ordinarily I have not had problems. Generally, though, having SCv1 or other equipment that makes scary fan sounds or looks like custom hardware probably scares people off. :)
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People get mad as it is when you pull up and an ICE vehicle is parked in an EV spot. Can you imagine if you pull up and a motorcycle left an open space but is using both charging stations?
I would stay near the bike if I was using 2 stations, but I also have hang tags that say 'OK to Unplug"
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I thought you could use a single J1772 plug to supply power to two Dignows like. you can with the Elcons. I suppose I'll just get one Diginow when I can afford it. I can sell my J1772 plug from Hollywood Electric along as well. Thanks guys.
Yes, I plug my first J-plug into my first two Diginow Elcon bricks. To charge close to 1C, I plug in the third brick via the second J-Plug.
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You use two 3.3s together on one J plug without problems?
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I thought you could use a single J1772 plug to supply power to two Dignows like. you can with the Elcons. I suppose I'll just get one Diginow when I can afford it. I can sell my J1772 plug from Hollywood Electric along as well. Thanks guys.
Yes, I plug my first J-plug into my first two Diginow Elcon bricks. To charge close to 1C, I plug in the third brick via the second J-Plug.
Yes, typically a single j-plug works for 6.6 kW public charge station.
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Yeah, it works great. Except at cabrillo college.
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Cabrillo College has a bunch of solar powered trailers and limits power to 3.3 kW per port on purpose.
And Steven I use 4 Diginow superchargers, on a 2015 with a powertank, to get 13.2 kW from 2 J plugs. I have yet to overcurrent a station and have been charging everywhere from the Bay to LA and back.
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Awesome, can't wait for another 3.3kW brick - just as soon as my bike shops having problems.
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Cabrillo College has a bunch of solar powered trailers and limits power to 3.3 kW per port on purpose.
And Steven I use 4 Diginow superchargers, on a 2015 with a powertank, to get 13.2 kW from 2 J plugs. I have yet to overcurrent a station and have been charging everywhere from the Bay to LA and back.
Interesting, I would have expected a solar solution to offer DC only to avoid the conversion loss from the station's battery.
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Does everyone else's charge tank flap not click shut with the SC J inlet? Any idea how to help it stay shut while riding, or did I do something wrong?
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Does everyone else's charge tank flap not click shut with the SC J inlet? Any idea how to help it stay shut while riding, or did I do something wrong?
Yep. Compared to the chargetank inlet which sits prouder off the chargetank bracket and through the flip top opening than does the inlet included with the SCv2. Come to think of it I may try a shirt cardboard spacer and if that works come up with something more solid. Also besides the flip top mashing open at freeway speeds the various J1772 plugs don't click in without some force and shaving back a bit of the cowl.
Good report.
*Update* Used some stiff plastic packaging to make a spacer. I tried unsuccessfully a variety of spacers and washers to get the inlet angled so it would retain the flip top. However I do recommend a 1mm to 2mm shim for a better fit and had I done this before possibly I would not have needed to shave down the chargetank cowl in front of the inlet area where the J1772 clicks into place. Pictures follow.
(http://i.imgur.com/CKLHrjw.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/7JJyuUd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PG3HiXm.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/nRjFRau.jpg)
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Interesting, I would have expected a solar solution to offer DC only to avoid the conversion loss from the station's battery.
AC is the common denominator here. Since dc<>dc conversion is pretty specific (The charging logic is on the EVSE side so it needs to know cell count, max charging current etc), and most EV's have an AC charger on board anyway, the AC route is way cheaper. This way the ~15% loss in dc > ac > dc again and the inverter hardware is neglectable compared pricewise to a DC charger.
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I think with the new 2017 tanks the hard top tank, or the HE carbon top tank might be the best install now. These were not available originally, but now that they are you can get some storage space as well as keep your j inlets in your tank while riding.
Not sure, but killroy is testing the setup now. Looking forward to getting some wear results, and taking photos etc. next time I see him.
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I think with the new 2017 tanks the hard top tank, or the HE carbon top tank might be the best install now. These were not available originally, but now that they are you can get some storage space as well as keep your j inlets in your tank while riding.
Not sure, but killroy is testing the setup now. Looking forward to getting some wear results, and taking photos etc. next time I see him.
This shows the space in the locking 'tank' with 6.6 kW. I plan on getting another 3.3 kW and filling up all the space. I will probably have to relocate the j-socket.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118489_10155127751921380_8738569803787397258_n.jpg?oh=7002a61d8a3491ffd4afd1c30de3415e&oe=59B793E3)(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18057959_10155127751851380_1756243299832756400_n.jpg?oh=fa260a4988027cd84a1806d29baa2179&oe=59A72CDA)
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I think with the new 2017 tanks the hard top tank, or the HE carbon top tank might be the best install now. These were not available originally, but now that they are you can get some storage space as well as keep your j inlets in your tank while riding.
Not sure, but killroy is testing the setup now. Looking forward to getting some wear results, and taking photos etc. next time I see him.
This shows the space in the locking 'tank' with 6.6 kW. I plan on getting another 3.3 kW and filling up all the space. I will probably have to relocate the j-socket.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118489_10155127751921380_8738569803787397258_n.jpg?oh=7002a61d8a3491ffd4afd1c30de3415e&oe=59B793E3)(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18057959_10155127751851380_1756243299832756400_n.jpg?oh=fa260a4988027cd84a1806d29baa2179&oe=59A72CDA)
On my TODO list is making a bracket from the passenger foot peg mounting location for J1772 inlet (a clever application of zipties will also work there). The other good locations are mounted to the top rack bracket underside, or the CHAdeMO cutout (you'll need to remove the left side plastics to expose this location).
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I'm really excited about the new scv2, but will likely wait a year or so before jumping in. Here are my concerns/considerations
1) I bought two Elcon chargers four months ago; it's difficult for me to justify the expense of the scv2 at this point
2) I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging. I think that means four units (2016 SR, no power tank). Though I haven't read all posts in this thread, it seems availability may be limited at this time
3) with any new technology/consumer product there are bugs, revisions, more bugs, more revisions. I prefer to wait a year to see how it all pans out
4) from some that I've read, it sounds like one might need to do some alterations to the bike at accomadate the scv2. I much prefer a "plug-n-play" approach. Alternatively, I'd be willing to pay someone (with a better set of tools and knowledge than I have) to make any needed modifications.
5) If I wait two years ... there may be a better zero with a much better range.
Closing note: today, pulling away from a stoplight, I got scortched by a guy on a smallish ICE. Ouch;
that doesn't happen much. Need ... more ... more ... torque ...
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I'm really excited about the new scv2, but will likely wait a year or so before jumping in. Here are my concerns/considerations
1) I bought two Elcon chargers four months ago; it's difficult for me to justify the expense of the scv2 at this point
2) I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging. I think that means four units (2016 SR, no power tank). Though I haven't read all posts in this thread, it seems availability may be limited at this time
3) with any new technology/consumer product there are bugs, revisions, more bugs, more revisions. I prefer to wait a year to see how it all pans out
4) from some that I've read, it sounds like one might need to do some alterations to the bike at accomadate the scv2. I much prefer a "plug-n-play" approach. Alternatively, I'd be willing to pay someone (with a better set of tools and knowledge than I have) to make any needed modifications.
5) If I wait two years ... there may be a better zero with a much better range.
Closing note: today, pulling away from a stoplight, I got scortched by a guy on a smallish ICE. Ouch;
that doesn't happen much. Need ... more ... more ... torque ...
Scorched, do you have an SR?
The problem with waiting 2 years, is you can just wait 4 and get even better. Well, 6 years it will be even longer range, charge faster and have many more features. Actually, wait 8 years and it'll be a complete redesign and blow current bikes out of the water...it's the Tesla problem. The best Zero is the one in the dealership right now. The best charging solution is the SC 2. Don't keep waiting and hoping, go get what's out now. You're funding the next generation, and this generation will likely be more than good enough for your needs.
I've never changed a belt or brake pads on a motorcycle, and I did a SC v2 one brick install this week. Takes a little figuring out, but any average person can do it with a little research. Have charge tank plastics installed, or just ordered by your dealer before hand, it will make things pretty much plug and play.
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The problem with waiting 2 years, is you can just wait 4 and get even better. Well, 6 years it will be even longer range, charge faster and have many more features. Actually,y wait 8 years and...it's the Tesla problem. The best Zero is the one in the dealership right now.
Amen. I very well may have the first SR sold to the public (I put my deposit down on my lunch hour the day the 2014 models were announced), and sure, I'd love to have a 2017 with its Bosch brakes and Showa shocks and embedded magnet motor and.....well all that stuff.
But I've been riding mine since January 2014. :D None of those lucky bastards with the bright shiny new bikes can say that. 32,000 miles so far and not a single regret. Sure, it's an immature technology and big improvements are made every year...but not really. That was very true five years ago, but we're a lot higher up on the exponential curve by now.
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2) I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging. I think that means four units (2016 SR, no power tank). Though I haven't read all posts in this thread, it seems availability may be limited at this time
For 2016 SR with no power tank you need 3 units to do 1C.
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He has two 2.5kW Elcons. Get them mounted like saddle bags. Get one SCv2s in your tank, tie it to your onboard 1.3kW. 9.6kW total, just short of 1C.
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He has two 2.5kW Elcons. Get them mounted like saddle bags. Get one SCv2s in your tank, tie it to your onboard 1.3kW. 9.6kW total, just short of 1C.
I assumed "I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging" means "1C charging with v2".
If you want to use Elcons in addition to v2, I would get 6.6 unit. You'll end up with 11.6 kW total without onboard.
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Closing note: today, pulling away from a stoplight, I got scortched by a guy on a smallish ICE. Ouch;
that doesn't happen much. Need ... more ... more ... torque ...
An SR has plenty of torque. It needs more power.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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He has two 2.5kW Elcons. Get them mounted like saddle bags. Get one SCv2s in your tank, tie it to your onboard 1.3kW. 9.6kW total, just short of 1C.
I assumed "I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging" means "1C charging with v2".
If you want to use Elcons in addition to v2, I would get 6.6 unit. You'll end up with 11.6 kW total without onboard.
I'm trying to save the guy a grand, and only charging 1.x kW slower.
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He has two 2.5kW Elcons. Get them mounted like saddle bags. Get one SCv2s in your tank, tie it to your onboard 1.3kW. 9.6kW total, just short of 1C.
I assumed "I'm only interested in scv2 if I can do 1C charging" means "1C charging with v2".
If you want to use Elcons in addition to v2, I would get 6.6 unit. You'll end up with 11.6 kW total without onboard.
>means "1C charging with v2"
yes
>If you want to use Elcons in addition to v2
No, I'm thinking of v2 instead of my Elcons. Elcons work great, but the v2-s are much lighter/less bulky.
So I'm thinking of going v2 and selling the Elcons at a discount (50% off retail, perhaps, if anyone is interested ...)
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Hi,
Has this been tried/tested for a Brammo/Victory Empulse?
I see that the website mentions this would work for an Empulse. Anyone?
Thanks
-Shayan
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Has this been tried/tested for a Brammo/Victory Empulse?
I see that the website mentions this would work for an Empulse. Anyone?
Yes, I know one Empulse owner using the DigiNow Supercharger V2. Inquire when ordering if there's any special customization, but I think it's minimal, mainly concerning how to mount and connect it.
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Yes, I know one Empulse owner using the DigiNow Supercharger V2. Inquire when ordering if there's any special customization, but I think it's minimal, mainly concerning how to mount and connect it.
Great! Whom should I contact to get more information? Is it available only through Hollywood Electrics?
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Yes contact Hollywood Electrics. There is a waitlist and orders are being filled as soon as they can be delivered. The superchargers are selling much faster than anyone expected and now the charger manufacturer is working as hard as they can to keep up.
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Hi...i am a new user here.I think the strut support is more important than the case itself - as long as the mass is centered above the top plate, I wouldn't worry about the case as much as the rack.I've used padding to modestly even out the load and eliminate oscillations of the rack under load when going at highway speeds over bumps, but my Elcon 2500 ultimately wound up strapped to the passenger seat in a duffle bag or a pelican case because it was starting to strain my top rack and the OEM side rack over time.
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Hi...i am a new user here.I think the strut support is more important than the case itself - as long as the mass is centered above the top plate, I wouldn't worry about the case as much as the rack.I've used padding to modestly even out the load and eliminate oscillations of the rack under load when going at highway speeds over bumps, but my Elcon 2500 ultimately wound up strapped to the passenger seat in a duffle bag or a pelican case because it was starting to strain my top rack and the OEM side rack over time.
Yes, I agree (and welcome!). The top rack needs reinforcement in order to handle 15lbs of load for any length of time, and the OEM side rack probably suffered from me putting an Elcon 2500 in a case repeatedly. At a minimum, it's worth stabilizing the top rack with padding between the tab and the tail plastics.
I did wind up putting my Elcon 2500 in a duffle bag and strapped that securely to the passenger seat and the top case to stabilize everything. I'd then open the duffle bag from the top and in front to pull out the charger, hook up the cables and use it. I tried a Pelican case, but it was difficult to find one large enough to enclose it well yet not interfere with a good riding posture.
FYI, the charger under discussion here is 7lbs for each modular 3.3kW unit, so it's easier to distribute the load, and that's 6.6kW per 15lbs instead of 2.5kW for the 15lb Elcon 2500.
The Happy Trails side rack for Zero is very sturdy and more ready to support a charger on each side. (Side Racks reference: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Side_Rack (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Side_Rack))
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Exactly 15 lbs for 6.6 kW vs the 30 pounds for just 5.0 kW means the new superchargers can be a solution for people who wanted the old Elcons but couldn't figure out how to mount them. Not only were they heavy but big too. A year from now and I think most Zero owners who travel will have a supercharger because it's so small and light and powerful. I wish these were available in 2014 when I was doing my Iron Butt. Would have been so much easier!
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Just a queustion about the usage of the Diginow v2's. It's probably mentioned somewehere but I can't find it in the dayly growing bunch of posts ;D
I was wondering if the Diginow is capable of closing the contactor by itself or does one need to key the bike on and once the charge is engaged the ignition keys can be removed?
And if it can close it by itself how is this being done? I'm asking this becourse I'm working on a Eltek charger setup and run into this issue. It would be so elegantely if a charger can activate the contactor by itself.
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Just a queustion about the usage of the Diginow v2's. It's probably mentioned somewehere but I can't find it in the dayly growing bunch of posts ;D
I was wondering if the Diginow is capable of closing the contactor by itself or does one need to key the bike on and once the charge is engaged the ignition keys can be removed?
The key needs to be on to start the charge unless you are simultaneously using the onboard charger.
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Just a queustion about the usage of the Diginow v2's. It's probably mentioned somewehere but I can't find it in the dayly growing bunch of posts ;D
I was wondering if the Diginow is capable of closing the contactor by itself or does one need to key the bike on and once the charge is engaged the ignition keys can be removed?
And if it can close it by itself how is this being done? I'm asking this becourse I'm working on a Eltek charger setup and run into this issue. It would be so elegantely if a charger can activate the contactor by itself.
power on the onboard charger, then have a short delay (or wait until you see the voltage on the charger connector) then start.
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I'm testing a bit with a water cooled duo brick via the aux port but I'm not getting full power.
Screenshot with onboard charger:
(https://i.imgur.com/2RMYzjI.png?1)
Current testing setup:
(https://tweakers.net/ext/f/m6VXLgikeYK5Rjecv7K6Ov2F/full.jpg?nohitcount=1)
According to the Diginow site I should be getting 76A with help from the onboard charger. There is a low power switch for destination Mennekes charging because a lot of those are 3 phase 16A but the charger that I use for testing is an L3 that has 43kW to offer.
I suspect that it is in destination mode but to be honest I have no idea how to turn that off, can't see any switches or similar.
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What's the input voltage?
The Diginow SCv2 bricks I have (early batch, later ones may be the same)
meter themselves are based on amps, not watts or kilowatts, so even though
they are 3.3kw each, I get 3500+ watts each when plugged into 240VAC power
and ~3000 watts when plugged into a crap station that dips to 197VAC under
load.
Contact cleaner may help, or it might not. Depends where the resistance is.
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It should be 3 phase 240V. I haven't measured it yet myself but I'm pretty sure that the ABB Terra 53 (http://new.abb.com/ev-charging/multi-standard/terra-53-cjg) that are next to the motorway here delivers and doesn't dip.
The charger is doing it's work pretty good for the rest and though it extends the charge time only a few minutes I would surely like to access those last 16A.
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Wise man say: measure, don't guess.
I use DROK AC displays, bought them on ebay or Amazon.
They show amps, volts, kw, wkh. There are color versions
that do non-contact amperage measurement (you feed one
side through a coil) and monochrome ones that only go to 16A
that are wired through and are way less bulky. My v2 patch
panel will use the latter.
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I was waiting a few days until the weather cleared up a bit, which it didn't so today I took a wet trip to the fast charger to measure. On all phases 230-234V. However I did notice that the little led on the SC is blinking red.
Edit:
Shot a small clip showing the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCkGCAn5ZT4
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Did some more charges at various battery SoC's and temps but I'm still only pulling 50A...
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The mystery is solved! Because I ordered 4 units my SC was tuned down a bit to avoid going over 1C while charging.
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Small update, I'm still working with two units but plan to install them all when my new side and top cases have arrived. In the meanwhile I was pondering how to reduce the clutter of cables and tubes. The cables will stay for now but the current liquid cooling can use some improvement. It is effective but pretty bulky with the separate pump, reservoir, radiator and all the tubes and 12V wires that go between them(If you haven't seen the liquid cooling in action yet there are some videos of it on my channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLZ9tcCrr_bq2tSdJ_a-0eg). And now double that with four units.
I had quite a few hard and long thoughts about how to shrink it down and then I realised that I was literally sitting next to the solution:
(http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Cooler-Master-Nepton-280L-12.jpg)
I do also water cool my desktop and it uses an all-in-one(aio) cooler, so that's CPU/GPU block, pump, radiator and fans in one small package. No reservoir but high flow and fan speeds should be able to negate the use of that. So I'm now looking in sacrificing a 240mm aio cooler and modding it to fit on a 4 stack SC like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/PoEOOl9.png)
Tdp shouldn't be that much of a problem, overclockers sometimes need to funnel away +500W of tdp and 240mm radiators have no problems doing that.
Much tidier and for a v2 it could even be moved outside the top case. I'm
Your thoughts?
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Found the right cooler locally: http://www.swiftech.com/H240-X.aspx
(http://www.swiftech.org/images/products/detail/H240-Xx800.jpg)
This all-in-one cooler was designed to be modular, and I've found one without CPU block. It should be a matter of connecting the tubes and filling it up and after providing it with 12V it should be able to cool all 4 units comfortably.
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Thanks, Erasmo! Good details!
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Nice Killroy! Glad you are charging fast too now! I like it with the tank cover and storage area!
Anyone download Killroy's photos if so can you attach them as the links are no longer showing images.
You can see the images in the quote but the URL doesn't go anywhere.
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Tesla to J1772 adapter
JDapter Stub (Tesla Charge Station Adaptor)
https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm;jsessionid=4D35997476289B54B463037A7D260650.p3plqscsfapp002
Will it work with a SCv2?
If the JDapter works, acquire which - 40a or 80a?
I just permanently mounted a 6.6kwh unit to my 14 SR. It works very well.
Thanks
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Tesla to J1772 adapter
Requisite dust cap:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nku6Wx/image_20180425_170335.jpg)
Vortex Optics Defender Flip Cap (Size O-50)
$19 usd from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ADUFVZU
I've not verified that what I ordered and received does fit the aftermarket Tesla inlet, but was ordering based on a link to Amazon and "50mm" sizing info told to me someone who has it on their Tesla inlet for 1000's of miles.
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Requisite?
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Requisite?
Yeah, use protection! It works the same without, but once I'd got stranded from a J1772 inlet frozen full of ice I won't call it optional anymore. Use protection!
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Requisite?
Yeah, use protection! It works the same without, but once I'd got stranded from a J1772 inlet frozen full of ice I won't call it optional anymore. Use protection!
Yeah, I can see that as an issue if you have it facing the sky : - )
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FYI I asked Diginow and they indicated that they thought it would be unlikely that this adapter would work, however, they have not tried it out. Does anyone have personal experience trying a 3rd part Tesla Destination--> J1772 adapter with the Diginow V2 superchargers?
Tesla to J1772 adapter
JDapter Stub (Tesla Charge Station Adaptor)
https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm;jsessionid=4D35997476289B54B463037A7D260650.p3plqscsfapp002
Will it work with a SCv2?
If the JDapter works, acquire which - 40a or 80a?
I just permanently mounted a 6.6kwh unit to my 14 SR. It works very well.
Thanks