ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on January 27, 2017, 08:27:43 AM
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Okay, so here's where I admit I've been off in the deep end for a few months.
In September, I put down an order for an Airtech DBL2 dustbin fairing for my 2016 DSR (along with user togo here who got a DBL1 for his 2014 SR, we had them shipped together). By October, I finally got a fabricator set up with a sketchy plan and the fairing and bike. That took a good deal longer than expected, and I have been working on the bike since mid-December to fix issues with the mount and develop solutions to complement the dustbin.
Here's my top level summary:
- The Vetter (or Corbin) fairing would be better. Much better. It's painful trying to make an integrated airflow solution from parts. I've inquired about buying one of them but of course they're still not available for a lot of complicated mostly unfortunate reasons.
- The dustbin pushes a lot of air, and Airtech's dustbins are for low, classic racing bikes so that air aims at your chest even if you're crouching.
- The Airtech fairings are 20-21" wide, shielding one's legs from full speed airflow.
- The DBL2 is more snub-nosed and has vertical walls, where the DBL1 is more round-profiled. I went with the DBL2 because of the challenge of enclosing the DSR front fork and wheel in its full swing.
- The inside of the dustbin gets very dirty. I want to switch my DSR front fender to a low fender as soon as possible to reduce that spray.
- Drag reduction is around 15% but that's only if everything is aligned right. It is far too easy to negate most of the benefit very quickly.
- Tail fabrication is next on my mind, of course. I'm looking at techniques for framing and forming composites (fiberglass) around an aluminum box structure that slides on over my top rack and very sturdy Happy Trails side racks. Without the Happy Trails racks, this would be much more difficult.
My immediate activity is doing research on another windscreen since I have a fairing installed now which massively changes the airflow profile leading up to the windscreen, and my Parabellum is going to retire from the DSR to the DS since I can't make it work any more. Right now, I get great mileage if I allow a ton of air to hit me at full speed, so clearly there's something to solve.
I'm debating the VStream versus a CalSci windscreen, which may come down to whether I can get a used-price version of either that is close enough. I'm getting nutty enough now that I might cut my own NACA ducted windscreen if I can arrange the tooling right, but CalSci is just a long jaunt away from me in Sacramento, so maybe that's the solution.
I'm attaching a recent shot that does not include the lower windscreen over the headlamp, which has been its own fabrication story. I'm using a thin piece of polycarbonate that flexes too much but I could fit without an oven session. I'll get a final version made based on it.
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The mount is based on a hack-job of the crash bars, plus some custom work to support the fairing up forward. The DBL1 is easier to mount because it lacks the large front cutout, and I'm inclined to design a very simple solution that fits both fairings based on lessons learned here.
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It's about time you posted some pics. I've been waiting since said you were showing up at Alice's with a fairing!
Can you explain more about the mounting brackets you had fabricated and post some pictures of them? Did you have them welded to the frame? Or did you work out some other solution?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Can you explain more about the mounting brackets you had fabricated and post some pictures of them? Did you have them welded to the frame? Or did you work out some other solution?
The crash bar mount is how it joins to the frame. The frame is not welded or modified in any way - my explicit goal is for this project be non-destructive and use existing hardware as much as possible.
The crash bars themselves were cut to shorten to the 21" width. There's a lot of complication I want to explain as I show the pictures, because the point is to illustrate what a simpler design will do in its place, so I'll defer doing that until I have time for a proper post this evening.
Basically the fairing joins via 3 Dzus quick-turn fasteners on each side to plates that are welded to two aluminum structural supports that run horizontally forward around the inner trace of the fairing. This structure than bolts into the steel crash bars. So, it can all be taken apart, and the fairing itself can be removed in less than a minute.
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About handling concerns, in crosswinds it is fine. Honestly the front wheel cover had more of an effect and the fairing kind of smoothed that out. I've ridden in stormy gusting crosswinds across metal expansion plates on the Bay Bridge and while it was thorny, it did not feel significantly unplanted or more impacted than the stock bike.
I will say that I'm commuting on this bike daily (43 miles each way on highways), and the main effect day to day is that my commute is 5-10mph faster with no change in power consumption, at least when I'm crouched. Today I went to work at mostly 75mph with an effective overall range of 90 miles. It's definitely not comfortable because of the windscreen situation, getting nearly full speed air at my head, but I'm working on that and hopefully can solve a good amount of it this weekend.
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The fairing looks to be mounted really close to the ground...Do you have issues with it scrapping?
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It's mounted as high as the belly pan allows, plus a quarter inch. No, it doesn't scrape.
The DBL1 has better cornering clearance because the profile is more oval than the DBL2's square-ish profile.
Remember, you're looking at the bike on the side stand photographed from above. There's quite a bit of clearance but the corner of the fairing would touch down before the footpeg.
Again, I would prefer the DBL1 for most reasons aside from the DS wheel and fender clearance and the amount of cutting the DBL1 requires to use at all.
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Photos with the second windshield version I made this morning.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/4042051bc85032cac3e71bb92014ff6f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/a2d3b822718659f2dc06486e77a20c76.jpg)
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After testing this, I can confirm that 20% drag reduction is real if I'm tucking behind that windscreen. But I need a further refinement (another windshield on the way) on that to say for sure that I don't have to tuck.
I can ride at 75mph at the same consumption rate I used to get at 60-65mph.
Unfortunately, my life got really busy this last month, so this might be where the design sits for a few weeks while I work on little details and planning the tail project.
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The new scoop shield looks good. That 20% reduction, is that compared to a stock bike or shieldless scoop?
Also something that I am pondering with, do you think that the oem bikestand still suffices if the bike is parked outside and it's windy?
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The new scoop shield looks good. That 20% reduction, is that compared to a stock bike or shieldless scoop?
Thanks!
That's compared to the 16 DSR with my Parabellum windscreen which I can't use now because together with the fairing, it pushes too much air and causes a vortex to hit me in the upper back.
Also something that I am pondering with, do you think that the oem bikestand still suffices if the bike is parked outside and it's windy?
I think it does; the profile of the fairing is round enough that it's not just a sail. And it has been tested since we've (SF Bay Area) had a lot of winds and rain these days and I've left it outside several times.
However, I do want that parking brake to help a bit, and it'd be nice to have a wider foot on the end of it to resist it rotating. Since it's cast alloy, I suspect that a quick weld job of a plate against it would probably have issues, but I'll ask around.
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Here's the CalSci windshield for a BMW R1200RT that I intend to try next. I bought it used via EBay. The NACA slot in the lower section is what I'm betting on, but it's also shorter than the Parabellum I had and curves upward a bit.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/9b54440ce59f85028efdeece3f12c754.jpg)
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Also something that I am pondering with, do you think that the oem bikestand still suffices if the bike is parked outside and it's windy?
I think it does; the profile of the fairing is round enough that it's not just a sail. And it has been tested since we've (SF Bay Area) had a lot of winds and rain these days and I've left it outside several times.
However, I do want that parking brake to help a bit, and it'd be nice to have a wider foot on the end of it to resist it rotating. Since it's cast alloy, I suspect that a quick weld job of a plate against it would probably have issues, but I'll ask around.
I'm suddenly reminded that these kickstands are relatively weak and can bend under load sometimes (happened to my 13DS when a car backed into it and I recall a similar story or two). So maybe it's time to shop for a third party kickstand that fits the bill - I hope this can be done, anyway.
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I like the looks of that CalSci shield, Brian. :)
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I like the looks of that CalSci shield, Brian. :)
I can set you up with my flexible Parabellum mount if you want. I'm debating whether to upgrade my 13DS with it or make needed room in my new garage.
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Brian depending on your tail section setup you might be able to bypass that "vortex" you felt with your higher screen.
I see your 13 is "sort of" up for sale were you going to post a price or just through PMs?
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Brian depending on your tail section setup you might be able to bypass that "vortex" you felt with your higher screen.
Yes, that is a good point and has been on my mind. It seems like it is so easy to put too much energy into the air and get a vortex that I should optimize for my current commute (85 miles per day) and take advantage of a tail when one is ready, which I cannot count on happening immediately (unless some preparation comes together very quickly).
I see your 13 is "sort of" up for sale were you going to post a price or just through PMs?
I'm not sure what to price it at yet, especially if I send it off for battery replacement first (which seems advisable).
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I'll test this two point mount on my commute and reposition and reinforce as needed. I can use my sliding brackets for the lower mount with a little fastener fiddling.
It is attractive if this continuous screen arrangement works out.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/5dc3a4dcb8df2518ff78df5db9754a68.jpg)
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Here are my three Zero screens lined up.
Zero Commuter Screen (MRA) with MRA X-Screen spoiler, CalSci screen for BMW R1200RT, and Parabellum screen for BMW R1150R.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/412b9f68c4b0f16db98599df80e5ad03.jpg)
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At this point, in strong winter downpours in the SF Bay Area, I am strongly considering quickly putting together something like the Vetter Streamliner's "turret" piece using some ABS plastic fastened to the lower windscreen holes and the handlebars.
A single upper piece would provide both some weather shadowing for the instruments and a little basic bracing.
To get full drag reduction, a second piece would have to be flexibly joined to the first and held in a wedge cross sectional shape across the entire handlebar.
I'll see what I can dig up for this project. Maybe my Coroplast would be sufficient for a mockup, but it's easier to carve curved pieces out of ABS plastics.
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I should note that I'm strongly concerned about the resilience of this design so I'm still critiquing the fairing mount understructure before I describe it in full and what I think it should be if others try it. It definitely holds the load well, but I'm checking on general fit and wear week by week to make sure I understand the factors involved.
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Latest arrangement has a lower angle but I added a Laminar Lip to soften up the air to run over my head smoothly. Now I get much more reliably good drag figures.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/c7f316c0212bfdacccab1ef933ece570.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/c806a28c76102e88da62ce811e70e65d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/cb54bb34401df7f520610af5218ab0e8.jpg)
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Here are some early photos of the completed support structure. I use some very particular Dzus quarter turn quick release fasteners to attach the fairing to the structure, and added padded tape to reduce wear. And gave it some coats of flat black paint.
The design is more complicated than I'd like and I'd recommend an arrangement with one upper bar running the circumference and use lower bars on the sides to form a triangle just before the nose curves.
The crash bars are very sturdy as long as the frame bolts are well chosen and installed, but another support direction would help. The dustbin width is 21-22" vs the bars outer width of 28", which is why my mount cuts them short and makes them join in a different way.
The DBL1 (by contrast) can be supported by an aluminum bar running along the same plane as the crash bars themselves, holding up the nose along the top ridge, but requiring more effort creating and maintaining cutouts.
I think the Vetter nosecone could be supported by this latter method.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/8a7b704f9c1597da708fe5a0febb5ba7.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/a6b44026a3134bc586ed4b4610518e16.jpg)
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Photos from my first mount checks.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/0c8a7c329bc49c1403966a0a06e3bf71.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/7f6544922d345338f62964d737c299c5.jpg)
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Looks like a good sturdy mount, it's good to see it coming together. It does appear to be very narrow, I'm guessing your margins on the side when turning must be really slim.
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Looking good Brian!
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Thanks! I forgot to note that I grinded off the lower bar's forward loop. I feel bad that the fabricator went to a lot of trouble to get the bend right, but the clearance with the wheel was not sufficient at full swing. The framework is 6061 aluminum and about â…›" thick, so yes very sturdy, maybe too sturdy.
I have prepared CAD drawings outlining the cutout needed under the fairing for the DS wheel. The S wheel cuts a smaller but similar swath. I also have the mount measurements but not accurate plans for the crash bar modifications.
I'm still looking for a low front fender to reduce the splatter on the inside of the fairing and screen.
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I'm suddenly reminded that these kickstands are relatively weak and can bend under load sometimes (happened to my 13DS when a car backed into it and I recall a similar story or two). So maybe it's time to shop for a third party kickstand that fits the bill - I hope this can be done, anyway.
Isn't it better for the side stand to bend rather than the frame? Replacing a side stand is easy straitening a bent frame is not.
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I'm suddenly reminded that these kickstands are relatively weak and can bend under load sometimes (happened to my 13DS when a car backed into it and I recall a similar story or two). So maybe it's time to shop for a third party kickstand that fits the bill - I hope this can be done, anyway.
Isn't it better for the side stand to bend rather than the frame? Replacing a side stand is easy straitening a bent frame is not.
Oh, sure. The Zero side stand has never seemed comparable to my V-Strom side stand at all, though. The bike just isn't as firmly planted as I'd like, and can't take a foot extension. The trouble with that accident was mainly the compromised front FastAce forks.
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On this morning's commute, I got too excited and demonstrated a predicted deficiency of the square-profile DBL2: reduced cornering clearance. It barely scratched the paint and the resin is fine, but I'll make sure to put something sacrificial over those edges on the next paint job, which it's due for - the current design is too plain for me.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/f14d18a98e9a432f11bd5d74f818698e.jpg)
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Today, I took the bike to the dealer to change the OEM front tire and brake pads (at 19k miles each!).
They didn't find working with the fairing and mount to their liking and added a labor estimate to my bill. Hopefully that goes away - the fasteners should have been easy to work with. In the future, I'll just dismount it myself; if I weren't still settling in, I'd have done quite a bit of work on my own, but my tools are still not all in the same garage.
On a lighter note, I used the 2013DS to commute the ~45 miles each way to work with the OEM Commuter Screen and ... wow, did I not really appreciate how much the fairing does for my drag! The 2013DS arrived at its destination each way with two bars left (under 25%), even while trying to conserve power most of the way by staying at or under 60mph.
The DSR right now can arrive at work with 45% left even though I flog it at 70-75mph average. I-280 traffic tends to run really fast. I'm glad it's scenic and affords views of rolling grassy hills and cows and the occasional horseback rider, but the highway itself has a lot of rises and strong-ish winds and the cars tend to be more expensive and sporty (SUV or coupe).
So, I guess this thing is working. I'm crossing my fingers to get some kind of tail underway soon.
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So, I guess this thing is working.
People still don't believe me when I tell them I got a 20-25% improvement in range when I installed my windshield (actually 24% by the numbers I have). I have to admit it's pretty hard for me to believe too, but the numbers don't lie.
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A top box (in conjunction with a screen) also seems to help a little, I guess by cleaning up the air flow at the rear (cutting down on turbulance).
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Still the age old question, why won't Zero produce a sports fairing for the SR. If you can reduce drag without the use of a wind tunnel, what could be done with hi tech equipment?
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Still the age old question, why won't Zero produce a sports fairing for the SR. If you can reduce drag without the use of a wind tunnel, what could be done with hi tech equipment?
There is a big difference between us making a homebrew fairing and R&D-ing a proper one, proper moulds of that size are really expensive. Especially when there is not that much incentive to do so if you're the only real player on the electric motorcycle market and they're selling like hot cakes anyway.
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I've been eyeballing cheap fairings off ebay for some time, but it is hard to tell if they will fit well or not on the Zero. For $2-300 bucks for the fairing plus some custom brackets, it might not be too bad of an investment. Unfortunately, it is hard to imagine how a particular fairing would fit/look on the SR.
I'm quite happy with the VStream screen for now and, while I can't tell if it increases my range, it certainly covers me well on the highway and the ride is quite pleasant. My helmet is not up to the task, being noisy, so probably a new helmet should be my next "improvement". Unfortunately, the Schubert C3 that was on sale last year did not fit my head shape well - it felt like it had much better noise control and quality than my Givi flip-up (which is very comfortable and functional, but is rather noisy, like most cheap helmets are)... Interestingly, with the helmet flipped-up the ride is quieter behind the VStream screen than with the helmet closed. Even if I duck completely behind the screen...
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DougS "I got a 20-25% improvement in range when I installed my windshield" What shield and how does it look (pictures please). If you already posted a pic, sorry, I did not see it and would like to. Thanks
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DougS "I got a 20-25% improvement in range when I installed my windshield" What shield and how does it look (pictures please). If you already posted a pic, sorry, I did not see it and would like to. Thanks
Here, let me help you (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6734.msg54430#msg54430) :)
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I figured out a slightly more attractive color pattern and particularly a high temperature gloss clear coat that handles road debris much better, in time for Makerfaire.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/064925ad81abaff8c6339a709007b5ea.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/af11c9dd3ada879d2de10a0554097ab8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/05d3b3d3372e3ddfa40489d6fee44639.jpg)
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I figured out a slightly more attractive color pattern and particularly a high temperature gloss clear coat that handles road debris much better, in time for Makerfaire.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/064925ad81abaff8c6339a709007b5ea.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/af11c9dd3ada879d2de10a0554097ab8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/05d3b3d3372e3ddfa40489d6fee44639.jpg)
How does it affect range/comfort/handling? Handling: esp. in strong cross winds. When will these by in production? GoFundMe? Is it available in other colors? (note: above comments are mostly satirical. But .. I'd really like one)
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I figured out a slightly more attractive color pattern and particularly a high temperature gloss clear coat that handles road debris much better, in time for Makerfaire.
How does it affect range/comfort/handling? Handling: esp. in strong cross winds. When will these by in production? GoFundMe? Is it available in other colors? (note: above comments are mostly satirical. But .. I'd really like one)
Well, that's the first somewhat serious offer I've heard!
It handles relatively well and seems to yield a 20% efficiency gain and is comfortable to ride behind, although it's incomplete without a complementary tail piece of some kind. Also, the fairing being low means that leg and waist coverage is not great. I have a tail in progress but it's a bit of a mess conceptually while I've been digesting previous works' lessons and trying to make it easy to fabricate and safe and sturdy to use.
As far as reproducing this result, this was the Airtech DBL2 dustbin fairing ($750) with a custom mount made from Zero's drop bars ($250) and some bent tubing around the front trace ($100 parts plus too much welding labor given the prototyping back and forth plus maybe $50 for special Dzus fasteners, another $80 for a decent paint job, $50 to make the cutout's windscreen, $100 for the upper windscreen MRA stalks, and ~$80 for the upper windscreen itself).
... In short, I paid a lot to prototype this, and would rather make something cheaper for others to reproduce.
The DBL2 is visibly very low against the Zero's profile and the profile is square-ish, which reduces cornering angles and makes for more sidewind vulnerability than I'd like. The bike has been usable but a little scary crossing the Bay Bridge in stormy weather with 45knot crosswind gusts. The reduced cornering angle alone is annoying (although shaving the paint or vinyl off in a corner makes a strangely satisfying sound for a moment). I'd pick the DBL1 ($750) or a Vetter nose (more expensive but incredible sturdy and wide) because they have round profiles, are doubly-curved, and therefore can be mounted and braced with one diagonal arc extending in the plane of the drop bars (along the forward diagonal frame strut) and then fastened in multiple points across that arc.
Both of these nose fairings will require making suitable cutouts in the underside of the fairing for the wheel (I now have a good pattern for this for the DS and the S cutout will be a smaller version of the same via togo), and another cutout for a front headlamp. I'm inclined to make a wide cutout for the OEM headlamp and cover it with thin flexible polycarbonate plastic.
I am considering making a little campaign to produce a small batch of these, with help from some knowledgeable fabricating business contacts, but it'll be much simpler than what I just put together and more attractive. Otherwise, I'd just publish the plans (and may just do that, anyway).
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Wow Brian, this latest update gives the whole thing a much fresher look. Concerning the wind issue, maybe bad weather 'slide windows' on the side next to the wheels that you can open up before riding?
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Wow Brian, this latest update gives the whole thing a much fresher look. Concerning the wind issue, maybe bad weather 'slide windows' on the side next to the wheels that you can open up before riding?
The nacelles are openings that I've considered giving flaps but haven't worked that out. It's not terrible and honestly I'm going to spend my time on a round profile tail and then replace the front fairing with something rounder-profiled because that'll probably make a bigger difference.