ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Francois on May 19, 2017, 12:21:41 PM
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for me a FXSR
a FXS with the engin and controleur of the SR
better breaks 4 piston radial at the front
Wheel rim which accepts tire in 150 at the back to have more choices of tire
and 10kwh of the FXSR
good night have a nice dream
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I have one major hope for the 2018 models: Possibility to charge faster. A quick (~1C) charging option, DC or 11/22kW AC (Mennekes on European models). If they add this I'll be buying a 2018 model, if not I'll wait another year or for another manufacturer to offer the same.
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I have one major hope for the 2018 models: Possibility to charge faster. A quick (~1C) charging option, DC or 11/22kW AC (Mennekes on European models). If they add this I'll be buying a 2018 model, if not I'll wait another year or for another manufacturer to offer the same.
1C charging with DigiNow SC v2 is already an option as I'm sure you're aware of ;)
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As some of our dreams for 2017 became real (wider belts/locks on tanks/better paint) so may some of our dreams for MY18 take the same way !
- 7.5 and 15Kwh capacities at same weight as no improvement this year
- on board 2Kw chargers
- parking brake on when lowering side stand
- left hand regen brake (no action on pads, just more regen, switching stop light too)
- 160 rear tire
- noise of your choice bellow 30Km/h (requirement by NHTSA before September 1st, 2019, so for MY18 switchable)
- reverse mode < 5km/h for easier parking
- shorter turning radius
- USB port in all front storage
- Full LED lights option
AND 2 totally new models :
Enduro/MX model: R engine with better suspension, more travel, exterior quick charger, chain kit, 120Kg max, 2hours of action
Commuter : eq 125cc (car license in European countries), more scooter like, with windshield and fairing , with bigger storage to fit 1 jet helmet in the tank area (battery not as high, 10Kwh is enough)+ smaller storage under seat (14" or 15" wheels to get space), BUT good handling to step on Tmax and C evolution huge market.
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+1 on the FXSR.
I want a "ludicrous mode" where we're allowed to have more power from standstill. The FXS should be a wheelie monster but it isn't. Would it be so hard to let us create our own power maps? With a disclaimer beforehand, of course.
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fairing
fairing
fairing
bigger battery around 15kw/h (when no power tank) 18+ kw/h with power tank
reverse
variable regen on left lever
onboard 3.6kw/h charger (not in the power tank area) with 2 connectors, J1772 for full 3.6kw/h and same connector as now (on the side) for 1.5-2kw/h off a standard wall plug.
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My dream for 2018? That my 2016 S continues to be as reliable and fun as it has been so far. Also, availability of an aftermarket, add-on fairing.
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Energica Ego or sub 20K Lightening with CCS charging.
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fairing
fairing
fairing
bigger battery around 15kw/h (when no power tank) 18+ kw/h with power tank
reverse
variable regen on left lever
onboard 3.6kw/h charger (not in the power tank area) with 2 connectors, J1772 for full 3.6kw/h and same connector as now (on the side) for 1.5-2kw/h off a standard wall plug.
Exactly what I was going to write. I would just add that a fairing would be nice.
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For you guys wanting a FXSR no need to wait.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5988.0)
As for 2018.
1. 15 kWh monolith
2. Diginow charger 3.3 as the on board charger replacement.
3. New larger "tank" with more, and fully usable space "usable horns"
4. Gel seat, at least an option.
5. 120 MPH
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For me it is a larger battery pack and a softer seat.
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Yes seems like we all want the same thing pretty much
progressive regen with left hand brake lever
reverse switch to do even 1 mph would come in handy so many times
faster 3C charging capable batteries and tapered firmware to communicate CAN to chargers (so it can charge 3C at low SOC 0-30% and taper to 2C from 30-70% and 1C 70% or above)
fairing and aerodynamics would help so much
onboard 3 kW charger that can be increased to 6 kW in the stock under battery location to leave the tank open for everyone to get a powertank if they want.
And the automatic rear brake with the kickstand sounds nice too, but I think Zero has a right hand parking brake I just haven't used it myself yet
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progressive regen with left hand brake lever
variable regen on left lever
I have already decided I cannot ride another EV without this feature and I will do all the hacking I need to to get it ... it is just too valuable for me having had it for a while now. :D
Several calls for a faring have been laid out ... this is why I keep asking for a highway scooter similar in style to the TMAX / Burgman's as it would by default have better aerodynamics and likely range. :/
There is a brake lever you can buy which has a built in "parking brake" which simply keeps the brake lever depressed when activated. These have been around for a while and would likely be a good compromise between "automatic" options.
I am also all for faster charging ... coupled with good aerodynamics and you have a touring bike for sure.
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BETTER PRICING. Doesn't anyone wonder why prices have not gone done. Battery costs are down 60-70%, but Zero Motorcycles are actually more expensive today than in 2014! I just sold mine to buy an Energica Ego. Twice the price, but ten times the bike and I can fast charge!
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I'll agree with the above, and add:
A tank storage option for when you have a Power Tank or Charge Tank.
A low front fender for the DS/R and low rear tire hugger.
Again, a lower belt guard.
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Streamlining would be at the top of my list. Faster charging and better range is always good, too, but 1C charging IS available. Both are also arguably good enough for the great majority of us the great majority of the time. Streamlining, there's a lot of room for improvement and you're still on your own at this point.
It's kind of interesting to think what this list would have looked like even five years ago. We're SO blessed that the technology has come so far so fast!
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Streamlining would be at the top of my list. Faster charging and better range is always good, too, but 1C charging IS available. Both are also arguably good enough for the great majority of us the great majority of the time. Streamlining, there's a lot of room for improvement and you're still on your own at this point.
It's true that 1C charging is now solvable by third parties. I have the impression that Zero will let that mature for a year without trying to do anything themselves. I hear murmurs that the charging limit will get raised, which might be all they have to do to encourage it. (Ever notice that we all know the 1C rate informally because of Terry? Because it's not confirmed anywhere officially.)
The simple math is that once you have charging that fast, the best upgrade for an electric motorcycle is drag reduction because it cuts back on heat produced, charge used per mile, and recharge time all proportionally. And because of all that, commuting and travel get even more economical - it just takes a lot of investment to make that drag reduction economical to develop and make sure that it actually sells well...
It's kind of interesting to think what this list would have looked like even five years ago. We're SO blessed that the technology has come so far so fast!
Because this is the internet, we don't have to wonder!
2012, speculating on 2013: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2280 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2280)
2013, speculating on 2014: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3112 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3112)
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For commuters, I think Zero should seriously consider an updated XU.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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BETTER PRICING. Doesn't anyone wonder why prices have not gone done. Battery costs are down 60-70%, but Zero Motorcycles are actually more expensive today than in 2014! I just sold mine to buy an Energica Ego. Twice the price, but ten times the bike and I can fast charge!
How did you do on trade in? I'm considering doing the same with my flawed 2015 SR. You get it shipped to the US, or are you somewhere else?
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BETTER PRICING. Doesn't anyone wonder why prices have not gone done. Battery costs are down 60-70%, but Zero Motorcycles are actually more expensive today than in 2014!
Battery costs are not down by that much outside of the 18650 market which has immense volume advantages and those cells are not suitable for electric motorcycles.
In Zero's case, the components improved in 2015 and onward, including the batteries. But you don't see that in published specifications year over year (I wish they'd publish/brag a bit more).
Anyone clamoring for better pricing has no idea what the margins are on this business. Zero is not bilking you. I think they're trying to push down the price point but doing it to gain volume without going bankrupt, and the closer I look the more difficult it sounds to gain volume, even though I disagree with Zero on some major decisions.
I just sold mine to buy an Energica Ego. Twice the price, but ten times the bike and I can fast charge!
The Energica components are very nice, for sure, and I hope it runs very well for you. But you're getting the same or worse of a battery deal for that price; you're paying a big premium for those parts at very low volume.
For the record, that's $1800 for the fast charge option and 11.7kWh, less than a stock 4-brick SR/DSR, having checked http://configurator.energicamotorusa.com/ (http://configurator.energicamotorusa.com/)
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(Ever notice that we all know the 1C rate informally because of Terry? Because it's not confirmed anywhere officially.)
I do remember someone posting a Faresis data sheet here on EMF for the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR. It specifically designated the maximum allowable charging current (25A), which was 1C for that cell (25Ah capacity). It also gave maximum discharge rates, both long-term and short spikes, but I don't member those offhand. It should be searchable.
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Sync bike clock with phone clock
Cruise control
More software customization of mappings
Traction control
Theft protection
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Sync bike clock with phone clock
Cruise control
More software customization of mappings
Traction control
Theft protection
Synchronize the bike's speedometer/odometer with the Smartphone's GPS. Wouldn't that be cool??
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Bigger frame for cruising with more passenger room. More comfortable seat. Better display. Color black should always be an option. Seriously yellow???
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Bigger frame for cruising with more passenger room. More comfortable seat. Better display. Color black should always be an option. Seriously yellow???
Yellow is my favorite color, followed by lime green. ;D
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Bigger frame for cruising with more passenger room. More comfortable seat. Better display. Color black should always be an option. Seriously yellow???
Yellow is my favorite color, followed by lime green. ;D
Red is my favorite color, but this is my second yellow bike. I like it... it really sticks out in traffic and that's important when you ride so silently...
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Bigger frame for cruising with more passenger room. More comfortable seat. Better display. Color black should always be an option. Seriously yellow???
Yellow is my favorite color, followed by lime green. ;D
Red is my favorite color, but this is my second yellow bike. I like it... it really sticks out in traffic and that's important when you ride so silently...
I agree. That is why I like bright colors. :)
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(Ever notice that we all know the 1C rate informally because of Terry? Because it's not confirmed anywhere officially.)
I do remember someone posting a Faresis data sheet here on EMF for the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR. It specifically designated the maximum allowable charging current (25A), which was 1C for that cell (25Ah capacity). It also gave maximum discharge rates, both long-term and short spikes, but I don't member those offhand. It should be searchable.
I have a copy of it and didn't recall that until now. The Zero contactor limit is slightly lower and not so much documented as observed. Well, now it's documented on the wiki.
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Zero
Continued involvement and success in racing. When Zero is on the podium people will take notice!
Me
Grow a mustache
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Mostly, I want more range, and don't care much about charge time or price.
My FX works for commuting only, but I would like to use it for weekend rides of 140 to 200 miles, or ride to a dirt park 30 miles away and spend a whole day there. I dislike searching for outlets and waiting, and don't have or need an outlet at work.
My KTM 500 with 3.1-gallon tank does 180+, but the engine wears out quick. So I'd pay a lot for new battery tech that improves energy density by 3x.
Other things
- Charge time should stay <10h with the longer range.
- Power could be a little more; it can't easily lift the front. It's better with front battery out. The acceleration is good, so if it's a map issue, by all means fix it!
- The FX is quite small and I need the height of a typical 450. I'll likely a get DSR someday, but I prefer super light.
- With progressively harder braking (hand or foot), mechanical braking should not kick in until regen is at max.
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BETTER PRICING. Doesn't anyone wonder why prices have not gone done. Battery costs are down 60-70%, but Zero Motorcycles are actually more expensive today than in 2014! I just sold mine to buy an Energica Ego. Twice the price, but ten times the bike and I can fast charge!
How did you do on trade in? I'm considering doing the same with my flawed 2015 SR. You get it shipped to the US, or are you somewhere else?
Sorry for OT, but just a short note for all those of you who are considering buying an Energica. I recently had some insight into what's happening with owners in Germany right now. I can't go into details here, but if you expect a startup to be better than Zero just because of better parts and a CCS port, then you are wrong. If you consider Zero's customer service bad and the bikes unreliable sometimes, than an Energica will become a total nightmare and very expensive. Still they're all the same, problems can occure everywhere. They can't catch up with Zero's ten year experience from scratch, although their marketing obviously proposes something else.
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BETTER PRICING. Doesn't anyone wonder why prices have not gone done. Battery costs are down 60-70%, but Zero Motorcycles are actually more expensive today than in 2014! I just sold mine to buy an Energica Ego. Twice the price, but ten times the bike and I can fast charge!
How did you do on trade in? I'm considering doing the same with my flawed 2015 SR. You get it shipped to the US, or are you somewhere else?
Sorry for OT, but just a short note for all those of you who are considering buying an Energica. I recently had some insight into what's happening with owners in Germany right now. I can't go into details here, but if you expect a startup to be better than Zero just because of better parts and a CCS port, then you are wrong. If you consider Zero's customer service bad and the bikes unreliable sometimes, than an Energica will become a total nightmare and very expensive. Still they're all the same, problems can occure everywhere. They can't catch up with Zero's ten year experience from scratch, although their marketing obviously proposes something else.
Having owned Italian IC motorcycles in the past, I am always a little leery about their level of after-sales customer service and especially parts supply. If you can speak Italian and can get to someone at the factory, you will be treated well and receive efficient service. But if you are in the U.S. you may feel that you have been orphaned if you need a part quickly or have a strange problem that your local dealer can not figure out. It always seemed to me that most established Italian motorcycle manufacturers really didn't want to spend a lot of time and money setting up an efficient parts distribution system in North America. I think it is just a matter of priorities. Designing and selling fast motorcycles are their thing. :) Keeping them running, maybe not so much. ;)
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fairing/streamlining
fairing/streamlining
BETTER FAIRING/STREAMLINING/AERODYNAMICS
Increased range (duh! I know you guys at Zero are always working on that ... I'm so looking forward to 200+ mile range at 75mph+ (120kph+) with 1C recharge. Better fairing/streamlining/aerodynamics will go a long way towards this (achievable) goal. But then, you guys know that ... )
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Bigger frame for cruising with more passenger room. More comfortable seat. Better display. Color black should always be an option. Seriously yellow???
Yellow is my favorite color, followed by lime green. ;D
Nothing really wrong with yellow, what's wrong is not having black and white as standard and only yellow and red
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Nothing really wrong with yellow, what's wrong is not having black and white as standard and only yellow and red
Speaking of which, I keep reading about these "color kits" from Zero, but there is no mention (or pricing) on their website. Does anybody know the story? I wouldn't mind swapping out my yellow panels for red ones (though it would mean sacrificing my "Woodstock" stickers).
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Most motorbikes are sadly black. Likewise most riding suits. Put some color in your life! Yellow is wonderful, red is obviously faster :-)
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My input:
* Full sexy fairing
* More range (above will help)
* Improved front brakes
* Fully adjustable suspension
* Traction control
* Color display that you can customise
* Regen breaking on throttle close (like in a Tesla)
* More power or a different (customisable via app??) way of limiting the power so that you can properly pull a wheelie on a SR
* Optional low drag luggage option (top case and/or side cases) that fit well into the design of the bike
I am sure that with all the above, Zero can really significantly increase sales and strengthen it's position as a leading electric motorcycle company!
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* Color display that you can customise
Smart phone app?* Regen breaking on throttle close (like in a Tesla)
Um... check your app settings, it's not as strong as it technically can be due to safety regulations* More power or a different (customisable via app??) way of limiting the power so that you can properly pull a wheelie on a SR
Available if you change the sprocket on 2017+ it will definitely wheelie have seen it with my own eyes* Optional low drag luggage option (top case and/or side cases) that fit well into the design of the bike
A Givi top case is "low drag" but not the lowest, apparently we need an aerodynamic tail and no bike out there I've ever seen has this from factoryI am sure that with all the above, Zero can really significantly increase sales and strengthen it's position as a leading electric motorcycle company!
Aftermarket sales will develop for all these things. Zero Motorcycles may gradually upgrade the battery, motor, and controller technology, and possibly change some software settings to allow for aftermarket technologies to push their system limits, but they're not in a business of making a thousand different bikes (anymore).
You have to modify your Zero to get the 2-wheeled EV that you want for less than $30,000 cost. If you're willing to pay more then maybe have a look at other EV company bikes like Energica and Lightning, you might be happier with the stock configuration on those?
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My Zero SR 2018 dream machine: ;)
22 kW battery
22 kW charging (with Mennekes)
2 kW charging
In The Netherlands most charging stations are 11 kW and the newer ones are 22 kW!
see chargemap.com or newmotion.com
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... and for my current Zero S 2014, I am looking for an affordable 8.5 kW "supercharger" ;D
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My Zero SR 2018 dream machine: ;)
22 kW battery
22 kW charging (with Mennekes)
2 kW charging
In The Netherlands most charging stations are 11 kW and the newer ones are 22 kW!
see chargemap.com or newmotion.com
Amen to that!
And a compact worldwide adapter set, from Tesla destination to J-1772 to Menekes.
And high efficiency step-down supply so we can charge from HVDC like the big boys. Also with a compact worldwide adapter set.
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22 kW battery
22 kW charging (with Mennekes)
2 kW charging
You mean 22 kW charging? ;)
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CCS Fast charging. (This will soon become a necessity to stay competitive.)
A model with lower seat height. (Friends are ready to buy, but Zeros are too tall.)
Fairing to improve looks & range.
Bigger Battery and/or lower price.
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Here's an easy one. Maybe even firmware can do it? I want at least three programmable modes rather than being stuck with eco and sport presents. Still call it eco and sport if you like, just let me change them.
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Here's an easy one. Maybe even firmware can do it? I want at least three programmable modes rather than being stuck with eco and sport presents. Still call it eco and sport if you like, just let me change them.
And another firmware doable thing: Limit max charging SOC via the app, i.e. to 80% or 90% with balancing at the end. Just like Tesla's trip mode to reduce wear on the battery. For daily commuting that will be more than sufficient in most cases I guess.
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Has anyone mentioned "Fairing" yet? :P
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Cheaper fast charging options.
More zero service centres, preferably one in my area so I can get my bike serviced...
Better battery technology, hoping for twice the range(pipe dream).
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Zero needs to build DSX and DSXR bikes :)
1) Bigger frame bike with more carrying capacity
2) Increased battery with higher internal voltage compatible with fast public chargers
3) Removable onboard charger
4) Proper crash bars
I'd put $20K for that, assuming it has 200mi highway range.
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Has anyone mentioned "Fairing" yet? :P
Fairing Fairing Fairing Fairing Fairing, etc, etc.
Please, sirs, a Fairing?
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Mandatory :
- Traction control (I will not buy a SR without that...)
- Better cooling system (at least in option for SR...)
Nice to have :
- 3 customizable mode, not only the "custom". I need to customize my eco mode (not enough regen) and the sport mode (current setting is idiot ! Cannot use the "sport" mode to race...)
- More color choices
- Official support of external fast charging solution found by zero fan...
- Stronger SR, more usable in race (dual front disk, higher top speed, larger rear wheel)
- Allow at least dealer to customize the power curve
- Stealth protection ! (electronic key for example...)
- Left hand lever (to brake with motor regen)
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2c charging or greater. Compatibility with available charging infrastructure.
If a zero is going to keep up once the bigger manufacturers start making electrik bikes, 2c+ is much more needed than added battery capacity.
Charging at 22 kw ac or 50 kw dc is where the infrastructure is today where i live. If you are going to make a trip of some length and not alone, you will need to be able to charge at an acceptable rate, such as 15 minutes from 20 to 80%.
As long as the infrastructure is availalable, 2c seems to be point where electric cars seem to appeal broadly where i live (simply because the product is better than the gas alternative). At 4c few questions will remain. More range will always be welcome, but around 12-15kw is mostly enough, as long as fast charging is available.
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DC Fast Charging and more battery capacity are at the top of list to get me to upgrade. Really would like to take Zero on a weekend trip without the worry of not being able to charge quickly or have the 200 mile range most ICE bikes have at highway speeds.
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Added theses two :
- Better cooling system
Zero SR is not really usable with current air cooling...
- Left hand lever (to brake with motor regen)
Would be so nice to have hand rear brake, using a stronger regen manageable with pressure on the right lever, not an on/off smooth brake like actually
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My wish list, having read all these but categorised;
Standard features (essential)
- a fourth (2nd) custom map option for app
an improved battery capacity at the same price or lower
-a more comfortable seat
- lockable and bigger "frunk"
-mini moulded side cases that can hold cables and adaptors fit between rear pegs and body
- J series adaptor
- easier access to aux charger input
-2 USB outlets and 1 12v outlet
-higher spec opposed 4 piston front calliper
- low front mudguard for DS/R
- bigger rear hugger mudguard
- trade up deal for existing owners
Options;
- left hand regen brake lever
- road fairing for efficiency and large dirt style fairing for DSR
- bigger charger option
- cruise control
- LED light kit including spots
- chain conversion kit for all models
- super mono wheel option DS/R
- styling well fitted and good sized side cases
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Low hanging fruit is dual front brake discs, particularly for SR/DSR models.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just posted this to another thread (part of a rant on another subject) and realized it belongs here:
I still miss the PC800s auto cancelling signals. (Logic system using speed, distance, time and steering angle.) Shouldn't a bike like Zero get tech goodies like this?
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Better battery technology, hoping for twice the range(pipe dream).
Electric Terry basically did that with aerodynamics. The aerodynamics were a dream, so a group of zero owners have been discussing a middle ground.
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For Zero to be a profitable company by selling ~over 6000 bikes and reinvest the earnings to answer the dreams in this thread.
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I predict if they add a fast charging option they will be able to sell all the bikes they can produce.
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The 3 greatest features my 16 DSR is lacking are ....
(1) Traction Control
(2) Traction Control
(3) Traction Control
Did I mention Traction Control?
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I predict if they add a fast charging option they will be able to sell all the bikes they can produce.
You can fast charge today with aftermarket equipment. Zero Motorcycles does not have the resources to qualify new charging equipment for a worldwide market that is capable of this. What they can (and have started to do) is improve current-counting and safety systems to beyond the design limits of charging equipment that they will qualify and sell. We've heard there will be some action on this for 2018 but I think it will be an improvement on the components that allow the bike to safely accept greater than 1C charge rate (which already OEM charging is not capable of in any reasonable package to carry with the bike - you have to go aftermarket to get this as a built-in). The best thing that could be done is to make it easy and safe to replace the on-board charger by publishing the specification and selling the wiring harness.
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Option A: Totally new bigger Bike
- 15kwh
- 300V Battery that allowes CCS charging
- 200nm
- at least 160mm back tires and they should hire a good designer for this new bike (look at energica, ducati, yamaha,.. that is how a modern bike should look like)
Option B: Updates (also valid for option A of course)
- traction control
- More custom programs (it hardly differs if i ride bewtween citys/villages or am driving fast in the mountains. so i have to use a dumb compromise)
- Stroger regen (best would be stageless with gas backwards for example)
- Cruise-control. I cant keep the high speeds constant..
- more power is always good
- two front brake disks please!!!
- Belt guards
- LED Lights
- Built in break-fixation for parking on hills
- a better kickstand. This thing ist just bad
- More storage. The bike is thin as hell, there would be enogh space to place something for storage. Since i've installed the chargetank i cant put a single piece of paper in my bike!
- i would not mind to have the read break on my left hand. but thats not so important.
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I predict if they add a fast charging option they will be able to sell all the bikes they can produce.
You can fast charge today with aftermarket equipment. Zero Motorcycles does not have the resources to qualify new charging equipment for a worldwide market that is capable of this. What they can (and have started to do) is improve current-counting and safety systems to beyond the design limits of charging equipment that they will qualify and sell. We've heard there will be some action on this for 2018 but I think it will be an improvement on the components that allow the bike to safely accept greater than 1C charge rate (which already OEM charging is not capable of in any reasonable package to carry with the bike - you have to go aftermarket to get this as a built-in). The best thing that could be done is to make it easy and safe to replace the on-board charger by publishing the specification and selling the wiring harness.
I asked my semi-local dealer in Norway if they would install the SuperCharger for me. Their reply:
As an official importer of Zero Motorcycles in Norway, we provide motorcycles with the option offered by Zero Motorcycles.
This is because of, among other things, warranty coverage.
We have forwarded your request to Zero Motorcycles Europe, and are awaiting response from them.
I haven't heard back since. Many of you may be willing to void your warranty, I'm not (been there, done that earlier).
I'm waiting for a "bulletproof" solution that fits in the charge tank area, that the dealer will install and service for me if needed, but with ~1C charging capability. Energica might be an option, but the price difference is a bit high, I'd prefer to pay extra for a fast charging option on a Zero.
Sorry if this is off-topic.
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I asked my semi-local dealer in Norway if they would install the SuperCharger for me....I haven't heard back since. Many of you may be willing to void your warranty, I'm not (been there, done that earlier).
I'm waiting for a "bulletproof" solution that fits in the charge tank area, that the dealer will install and service for me if needed, but with ~1C charging capability. Energica might be an option, but the price difference is a bit high, I'd prefer to pay extra for a fast charging option on a Zero.
Sorry if this is off-topic.
The battery design is to charge at 3C and Zero Motorcycles cannot afford resources to do even 1C for worldwide market. I have the 1C SuperCharger kit in the charge tank area (three 3.3kW digiNow SCv2 modules), and no concern anymore about voiding battery warranty. If you will wait for Zero Motorcycles to do it, then you may wait forever :-) Install is easy, and you should not allow a dealership to touch your bike for that! Maybe (I hope!) Norway is better for honest and hard working Zero technicians. Here in USA where I have been to dealerships they are all terrible at Zero Motorcycles working orders and mess up every single thing I have asked ever for them to do. Never does any job get done the correct way, I always have to be there or my bike becomes broken by the dealership.
For the topic I also have to say that some things you will never see from the manufacturer, it is just not possible, yet some things are already mounted on development bikes and are being tested at the factory. Many of those ideas which you want from the factory are impossible to warranty, yet they have been done already today in aftermarket options: Faster charging, reverse switch, LED lighting, ... almost all requests here I have seen you can search the forum and learn how to make the modification for it.
What is very interesting to me will be how many people say they want something versus who will buy an aftermarket kit to modify their bike? Does it absolutely have to be from Zero Motorcycles or are we willing to support aftermarket parts makers?
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Its all about warranty and legaloty. Where i live (switzerland) not halve the things are legal compared to the usa. You have more freedom to modify things on your bikes and cars. In addition I had my BMS failed 2 times on me now and i am scared to use a thirdparty charger because zero could blame me for a potential next bms fail...
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If Zero and my local dealer verify in writing that they allow aftermarket chargers without any potential warranty issues in 2018 and an aftermarket fast charger that fits in the charge tank area and is heat-/water-/fool-proof is offered for sale I would likely buy a 2018 DSR and that aftermarket fast charger.
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That they allow it does not mean the warranty of the battery and surrounding system like the bms are. I dont think that there would be problems, but i for myself dont want to risk this at this point. When i drove 1 year without a bms breaking i may consider an aftermarket charger.
So, back to topic i think?!:-)
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Left-hand "freewheel" lever. When released, regen works as pre-programmed. As the lever is pulled in, regen setting is gradually temporarily decreased. When the lever is pulled all the way in, the bike freewheels when off-throttle as if a clutch is opened.
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Left-hand "freewheel" lever. When released, regen works as pre-programmed. As the lever is pulled in, regen setting is gradually temporarily decreased. When the lever is pulled all the way in, the bike freewheels when off-throttle as if a clutch is opened.
so what happens in your mind if i pin the throttle with that lever in? what if I leave it pinned and release the lever?
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Left-hand "freewheel" lever. When released, regen works as pre-programmed. As the lever is pulled in, regen setting is gradually temporarily decreased. When the lever is pulled all the way in, the bike freewheels when off-throttle as if a clutch is opened.
so what happens in your mind if i pin the throttle with that lever in? what if I leave it pinned and release the lever?
I'd have it do nothing to the throttle so it doesn't interfere with "lift and coast" vs. braking with regen. Maybe the lever should be shaped more like a paddle so it isn't mistaken for a clutch.
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Left-hand "freewheel" lever. When released, regen works as pre-programmed. As the lever is pulled in, regen setting is gradually temporarily decreased. When the lever is pulled all the way in, the bike freewheels when off-throttle as if a clutch is opened.
so what happens in your mind if i pin the throttle with that lever in? what if I leave it pinned and release the lever?
I'd have it do nothing to the throttle so it doesn't interfere with "lift and coast" vs. braking with regen. Maybe the level should be shaped more like a paddle so it isn't mistaken for a clutch.
Why not make the throttle go the other way and apply regen more as you increase the "counter throttle"? Isn't that more natural?
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Left-hand "freewheel" lever. When released, regen works as pre-programmed. As the lever is pulled in, regen setting is gradually temporarily decreased. When the lever is pulled all the way in, the bike freewheels when off-throttle as if a clutch is opened.
so what happens in your mind if i pin the throttle with that lever in? what if I leave it pinned and release the lever?
I'd have it do nothing to the throttle so it doesn't interfere with "lift and coast" vs. braking with regen. Maybe the lever should be shaped more like a paddle so it isn't mistaken for a clutch.
Why not make the throttle go the other way and apply regen more as you increase the "counter throttle"? Isn't that more natural?
In heavy congestion, I like to have the bike slow immediately as I start twisting the throttle, giving me the same kind of control one has with a Tesla. I stopped using sport mode in congestion because the response wasn't fast enough. I use about 40% off-throttle regen, and not more only so my speed doesn't vary too much as I go over bumps.
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Programmable charging via app so you can optimize your charging (start time & battery level or KW used).
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In heavy congestion, I like to have the bike slow immediately as I start twisting the throttle, giving me the same kind of control one has with a Tesla. I stopped using sport mode in congestion because the response wasn't fast enough. I use about 40% off-throttle regen, and not more only so my speed doesn't vary too much as I go over bumps.
These sentences seem entirely incompatible when I read them. Am I missing something? You want the bike to slow when you *start* twisting the throttle? Sport mode response isn't fast enough when in congestion, so you stopped using it for... another mode whose response cannot possible be faster?
By comparison, I lanesplit on my DSR constantly and it's the most responsive and easy to manage bike for it or any other congestion. I'm always in custom mode with 100% torque, 0% off-throttle regen, 100% brake regen, with the brake lever set so I can activate regen without touching the pads. I use a crampbuster paddle to smooth out my throttle usage, and I have a throttle lock so I can make a highway cruise with as little wasted torque/current as possible.
A more nuanced set of throttle mapping options would be nice, but I can't figure out what you think would work for you.
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In heavy congestion, I like to have the bike slow immediately as I start twisting the throttle, giving me the same kind of control one has with a Tesla. I stopped using sport mode in congestion because the response wasn't fast enough. I use about 40% off-throttle regen, and not more only so my speed doesn't vary too much as I go over bumps.
These sentences seem entirely incompatible when I read them. Am I missing something? You want the bike to slow when you *start* twisting the throttle? Sport mode response isn't fast enough when in congestion, so you stopped using it for... another mode whose response cannot possible be faster?
It's my experience on my bike that sport mode doesn't have as much off-throttle regen as I can program in custom mode. Maybe other bikes work differently. None of that, though, is significant to the conversation by itself, so we shouldn't dwell on it. This sentence was offered as the reason why I'm not interested in off-throttle regen that doesn't take effect until you roll past "0". I prefer the throttle as it is, which offers a response similar to driving a Tesla with one foot. All of this is in reply to the responses to my wish list item of a left-hand freewheel lever that I thought might be useful after watching Dario Franchitti's segment on lift and coast driving before the Berlin ePrix this past weekend. Did anyone else see that?
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I have a Zero DSR 2016, and this is my wishlist for a 2018 DSR, in more or less random order:
- A seat cover that is more water repellent. Todays cover tends to soak up some water when it is raining.
- Would be great with some more high tech computer onboard. Today it is pretty much mandatory to attach a smartphone to the bike in order to get navigation and other useful functions. When the rest of the bike screams advanced Batman tech, the mid-80s type of LCD display holds it back. With companies like Energica Motor and Tesla going all the way to make their electric vehicles a high tech experience, the Zero looks a bit dated.
- Longer range is always welcome, I would not mind a larger battery to achieve this. But I would never sacrifice the super handy storage compartment for it, which is the only option today.
- Faster charging in the standard bike would be great of course, however I really like that you can charge the bike through a regular wall outlet. Not sure if it is possible to tweak regular wall outlet charging like the latest generations of smartphones do with their quick charging?
- More power. Although my DSR is already very powerful, and the 2017 model even more so, I would be happy to see this stretched even further in some kind of "ludicrous" mode that tops even todays "sport" mode.
- I also vote for some of the other excellent ideas I saw on this list: Left brake that is regen only, parking brake when the parking stand is down. Not crucial in any way, but surely would add to the polish of an already excellent product.
- Some nitpicking: Faster "boot time" after turning the bike on. I am used to it now, but I almost crashed at first when I could not get any response from the engine, responding by turning the throttle to the max, then suddenly the engine kicked in and I was like woooahhh. Quite dangerous if you are not aware of this lag as a new owner. Not sure if this is already improved in the 2017 model though.
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-- snip --
- Some nitpicking: Faster "boot time" after turning the bike on. I am used to it now, but I almost crashed at first when I could not get any response from the engine, responding by turning the throttle to the max, then suddenly the engine kicked in and I was like woooahhh. Quite dangerous if you are not aware of this lag as a new owner. Not sure if this is already improved in the 2017 model though.
Just an observation because this happened to me the first time too: Wait till all lights and displays stop changing and the little green circle (that reminds me of an ICE bike's "neutral indicator") comes on and THEN you can go.
This really isn't very different from a modern ICE bike. You turn the key, wait till the dash instruments run through their start-up diagnostics, and THEN you push the starter button. In the "Good Old Days" you didn't have to do that... just turn the key and hit the button. BUT back in those days you also had to let the engine warm up or it would stall as soon as you twisted the throttle.
In other words, there's ALWAYS something... ;)
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Regarding regen, I've seen quite a few people wanting left hand brake or reverse throttle for variable regen. Why not have variable regen associated with the right foot? Also, my understanding is that regen can be programmed much higher than the standard "100%" - all the way up to locking the rear wheel. Is there really a need for a rear brake at all?
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Regarding regen, I've seen quite a few people wanting left hand brake or reverse throttle for variable regen. Why not have variable regen associated with the right foot? Also, my understanding is that regen can be programmed much higher than the standard "100%" - all the way up to locking the rear wheel. Is there really a need for a rear brake at all?
I don't think anyone would use the rear brake alone, but during emergency stops it helps a lot when used together with the front brake.
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-- snip --
- Some nitpicking: Faster "boot time" after turning the bike on. I am used to it now, but I almost crashed at first when I could not get any response from the engine, responding by turning the throttle to the max, then suddenly the engine kicked in and I was like woooahhh. Quite dangerous if you are not aware of this lag as a new owner. Not sure if this is already improved in the 2017 model though.
Just an observation because this happened to me the first time too: Wait till all lights and displays stop changing and the little green circle (that reminds me of an ICE bike's "neutral indicator") comes on and THEN you can go.
This really isn't very different from a modern ICE bike. You turn the key, wait till the dash instruments run through their start-up diagnostics, and THEN you push the starter button. In the "Good Old Days" you didn't have to do that... just turn the key and hit the button. BUT back in those days you also had to let the engine warm up or it would stall as soon as you twisted the throttle.
In other words, there's ALWAYS something... ;)
Yes, you are right. I was thinking a software modification could help too. By simply not allowing the engine to kick in unless the throttle is at rest. Anyway, not a big deal as long as the dealer passes on the wisdom to new owners to avoid newbie surprises. :)
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Regarding regen, I've seen quite a few people wanting left hand brake or reverse throttle for variable regen. Why not have variable regen associated with the right foot? Also, my understanding is that regen can be programmed much higher than the standard "100%" - all the way up to locking the rear wheel. Is there really a need for a rear brake at all?
Except if a strong variable regen could REPLACE the (few) power of a true rear brake, i prefer to have this on another command lever.
Second reason is because we have an available slot on left hand, so why stack 2 different functions in one lever ?
If i have a lever that do ONLY regen, i will try to use it all the time to slow down my speed without use any brake (no consumable usage & battery regen, double gain !)
If the lever combine rear brake & regen, it's less interresting
Third reason is for track. Foot lever is not really usable all the time. but Hand lever yes ;)
I don't think anyone would use the rear brake alone, but during emergency stops it helps a lot when used together with the front brake.
There is lot of people that use only rear brake...
And for a smooth/quiet driving, it's recommended by some motorcyclist organization to use rear brake as much as possible and front brake only for strong brake/emergency brake.
They say :
"Rear brake is your friend
Front brake is your enemy"
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The full power of what the electronics are capable of for Regen braking does not allow for ABS functionality, simply enough.
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They say :
"Rear brake is your friend
Front brake is your enemy"
"They" have no idea what they are talking about. Weight transfer means that 90% of your stopping power is in the front brake and the rear is quite easy to lock up in an emergency situation. ABS helps but most bikes still don't come with ABS. I only use the rear in low-traction situations like gravel.
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As i said just before :
And for a smooth/quiet driving, it's recommended by some motorcyclist organization to use rear brake as much as possible and front brake only for strong brake/emergency brake.
If your ABS have to work in other situation than emergency brake, then...
But i agree that on track, it's not the same 8)
i dont have english level to continue this useless discussion. They know exactly what "they" say. (they = http://www.afdm.org/prsentation-c1uh9 (http://www.afdm.org/prsentation-c1uh9))
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As i said just before :
And for a smooth/quiet driving, it's recommended by some motorcyclist organization to use rear brake as much as possible and front brake only for strong brake/emergency brake.
If your ABS have to work in other situation than emergency brake, then...
But i agree that on track, it's not the same 8)
i dont have english level to continue this useless discussion. They know exactly what "they" say. (they = http://www.afdm.org/prsentation-c1uh9 (http://www.afdm.org/prsentation-c1uh9))
I'm sorry, but as a former MSF Instructor/RiderCoach (initially certified in 1990 and recently retired) that is the most ridiculous and potentially dangerous advice I've EVER seen.
Besides the MSF curriculum I've also taken numerous courses taught by Reg Pridmore, Keith Code and Reg's son Jason Pridmore. For the last few years I've taken the street-riding school developed by Larry Grodsky and now run by Eric Trow. Not ONE of those learned, accomplished motorcyclist rider educators would agree to that either.
We even had an exercise in the "Beginner's Course" that let the students see EXACTLY how much braking they got using just the rear brake before combining it with the front.
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I have been using my front brake all of the time for the past 55 years and have never had a problem. I even use my rear brake once in a while, too. ;)
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The braking style on a Zero is somewhat unique because you can engage the regen braking (which is a form of rear braking) just before the front braking, all using one single lever. This does not modify the facts of braking and weight transfer, but it is important in cornering and low speed maneuverability for just those same reasons. The lesser amount of weight transfer when using rear brakes is a benefit to low speed maneuverability. Also, having a braking force from the trailing end (rear in most normal situations except parking on hills i.e.) just before applying the front brakes allows a great amount of control.
I think having a left hand rear brake set is not implying that any style of braking is better than the other. It is just an option we would like to see without having to do a lot of guesswork. Being able to set a linear Regen effect with a left hand brake is also an option but I don't think with the present electronic systems that it could safely be considered a replacement for rear brakes. Also with the present electronic systems it might not be feasible to do a linear activation of Regen braking.
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I am not a fan of left hand brake levers because I have five other motorcycles, all of which have a clutch lever in that location, so I would likely pull the left brake lever by accident in an emergency.
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I am not a fan of left hand brake levers because I have five other motorcycles, all of which have a clutch lever in that location, so I would likely pull the left brake lever by accident in an emergency.
I rode a Silverwing scooter for a while. You learn real fast!
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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I use a Magura left hand brake, and it is the most valuable upgrade I have done.
It makes riding off road so much easier, especially on steep descents where you can feather the rear brake.
For on road riding it's nice, but not crucial.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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And for a smooth/quiet driving, it's recommended by some motorcyclist organization to use rear brake as much as possible and front brake only for strong brake/emergency brake.
They say :
"Rear brake is your friend
Front brake is your enemy"
Wow, no. That is very dangerous advice. This is not even up for debate, this is physics. The weight transfer that takes place under front braking on a motorcycle pushes the front wheel onto the ground and makes it grip very well. This is where 80% of the braking power comes from. If you use the back brake during a drivers license exam here in Norway, you would fail. Correct braking is a big point you have to prove you understand. The rear brake is there to give you that extra edge during emergency brakes.
I see no problems having a smooth riding experience when using the front brake, it is just a matter of getting used to the more sensitive front braking. Getting used to always applying the back brake could get you in trouble during an emergency where you need more stopping power, but automatically go for the less effective rear brake.
I am sure there are situations where the rear brake should be favored, but it is better to focus on normal conditions when giving braking advice.
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On an IC motorcycle with a twitchy throttle, I like to drag the rear brake when going around an tight uphill corner in order to control the torque sent to the rear wheel, while keeping the throttle open slightly to prevent stalling. But with the Zero's throttle response this is not much of an issue.
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With my Zero in the shop I've been riding my bicycle a lot more and have noticed all the times I use the rear brake, mostly during slow technical stuff, over curbs and rocks, through sand, just to slow a bit and keep it steady, as well as for slowing in slippery conditions where it looks like the front end could easily wash out with braking. I had to pay attention because I do it without even thinking. Of course for real stopping power, the front brake is essential.
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With my Zero in the shop I've been riding my bicycle a lot more and have noticed all the times I use the rear brake . . .
I've been riding a motorcycle for less than two years, but I feel confident balancing front, rear, and regen braking. I think years of riding a mountain bike on all kinds of trails with very good hydraulic discs and an electric street bike with regen and disc brakes trained me well.
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Definitely agree with the more precise feeling with the left hand, specially on dirt, slippery trails. The thing is more "moto culture" against "scooter & bicycle culture". But as early adapters are more flexible regarding culture, another new step is easier!
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And for a smooth/quiet driving, it's recommended by some motorcyclist organization to use rear brake as much as possible and front brake only for strong brake/emergency brake.
They say :
"Rear brake is your friend
Front brake is your enemy"
Wow, no. That is very dangerous advice. This is not even up for debate, this is physics. The weight transfer that takes place under front braking on a motorcycle pushes the front wheel onto the ground and makes it grip very well. This is where 80% of the braking power comes from. If you use the back brake during a drivers license exam here in Norway, you would fail. Correct braking is a big point you have to prove you understand. The rear brake is there to give you that extra edge during emergency brakes.
I see no problems having a smooth riding experience when using the front brake, it is just a matter of getting used to the more sensitive front braking. Getting used to always applying the back brake could get you in trouble during an emergency where you need more stopping power, but automatically go for the less effective rear brake.
I am sure there are situations where the rear brake should be favored, but it is better to focus on normal conditions when giving braking advice.
Here in Australia learner riders are taught to use both front and back brakes together.
If you have a dirt bike history then you hardly ever use the front brake unless you want to end up face down in the mud.
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What I REALLY wish for 2018 is for Zero to announce their plans and updates at the AIMExpo in the United States FIRST, before making any announcements in Europe or Asia. They ARE an American company, after all, so why don't we get the first look? Also, their people wouldn't have to travel as far (which would save the company some money, I'd imagine).
Of course, the fact that I will be attending this year's AIMExpo in Columbus has NOTHING to do with my opinion... ::)
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OK, since this is a *wish list*
1. A true touring bike on the order of the Goldwing bagger. A bike this size would allow 8-9 battery bricks. Assuming an incremental increase to 3.5KWh = 28-31.5KW pack capacity. That's plenty to facilitate CCS DC fast charging. The batteries would be oriented longitudinally with 3x2 across the front with 2 stacked vertically behind. The big innovation would be the 9th battery below the low rider's seat. This is made possible by a hub motor integrated into the rear wheel. Aggressive regen would replace the mechanical rear brake. The fairing should be optimized for efficient cruising at 75-85mph.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IT6FPZuqVkI/UKDt9o79PuI/AAAAAAAAAB8/R7_xb6g24Bs/s1600/New+Honda+Gold+Wing+2013+EICMA.jpg)
2. A muscle cruiser using 7 bricks 2x2 in front 2x1behind and 1 under the low rider's seat. Again, using CCS charging, hub motor rear wheel with a super fat tire for burnouts in front of the bar. A visible beefy frame but have a cover panel for the batteries. The panel should be easily replaceable and used as a canvas for custom paint jobs. Just swap panels based on your mood for the day. You could even paint a fire breathing V-twin on it if you get nostalgic. The single most important part on this bike would be the subwoofer to mimic the rumble of a V-twin (switchable into stealth mode).
Hey, you said it's a WISH list. ;)
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Regarding regen, I've seen quite a few people wanting left hand brake or reverse throttle for variable regen. Why not have variable regen associated with the right foot? Also, my understanding is that regen can be programmed much higher than the standard "100%" - all the way up to locking the rear wheel. Is there really a need for a rear brake at all?
I don't think regen can lock your wheel as the slower you go (the slower the wheel turns) the less resistive force you get. At zero RPM you get Zero regen. But that said you may get your wheel turn much slower than the speed you are going, thus skidding over the ground.
Regen is like ABS in that you can set the level so as not to lock up or skid the rear wheel. Add an accelerometer and combined with controller knowledge (wheel speed a product of motor speed) you could have ABS without the extra cables and system it has now (at least on the back wheel).
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A 12V Accessory W Harness that includes the mating electrical connectors with crimp or solder contacts.
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Looking forward to see the 2018 announcements. Does anybody know where and when it will be?
I guess it will also be the first model year where we can see the influence of Brian Wismann to the design/developments.
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Looking forward to see the 2018 announcements. Does anybody know where and when it will be?
I guess it will also be the first model year where we can see the influence of Brian Wismann to the design/developments.
I would be surprised if Brian has had enough time to make any significant changes to the Zero platform. I'll be happy if he has managed to find a new charger supplier. I have no idea when Zero will announce the 2018 models, perhaps next month. ???
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KEEP EM COMING
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KEEP EM COMING
(1) Self-diagnostic mode capable to commission the motor and controller roadside, improving upon the addition of firmware upgrades in 2017 via mobile app.
My bike experienced some unknown problem which resulted in a huge discrepancy of the motor controller timing data. This left me stranded roadside because the bike would accelerate uncontrollably. There are other persistent problems with the bike that remain, however if there was a way to commission the motor and controller roadside then it is likely I would have been able to ride safely to the dealership. As it was I had to have the bike towed to the dealership, where a commissioning was done to put good data in, and I'm now riding the bike until the dealership can clear enough time from their schedule to have a proper look at finding the cause of the persistent problems.
I get that motor controller programming is highly guarded intellectual property. However it should be possible to perform a bike initialization and motor commissioning roadside. The reliance on finding a Zero-authorized dealership, and further one that will make time from a busy schedule, is not a sensible way forward for growth of privately owned Zero Motorcycles vehicle sales. Requiring the dealership to be involved is not a benefit to the dealership, and it is at best inconvenient for the owner. Most owners don't even know what motor commissioning is, and the dealers are likely to say it is a zero maintenance vehicle that needs no service whatsoever.
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OK, since this is a *wish list*
1. A true touring bike on the order of the Goldwing bagger. A bike this size would allow 8-9 battery bricks. Assuming an incremental increase to 3.5KWh = 28-31.5KW pack capacity. That's plenty to facilitate CCS DC fast charging. The batteries would be oriented longitudinally with 3x2 across the front with 2 stacked vertically behind. The big innovation would be the 9th battery below the low rider's seat. This is made possible by a hub motor integrated into the rear wheel. Aggressive regen would replace the mechanical rear brake. The fairing should be optimized for efficient cruising at 75-85mph.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IT6FPZuqVkI/UKDt9o79PuI/AAAAAAAAAB8/R7_xb6g24Bs/s1600/New+Honda+Gold+Wing+2013+EICMA.jpg)
2. A muscle cruiser using 7 bricks 2x2 in front 2x1behind and 1 under the low rider's seat. Again, using CCS charging, hub motor rear wheel with a super fat tire for burnouts in front of the bar. A visible beefy frame but have a cover panel for the batteries. The panel should be easily replaceable and used as a canvas for custom paint jobs. Just swap panels based on your mood for the day. You could even paint a fire breathing V-twin on it if you get nostalgic. The single most important part on this bike would be the subwoofer to mimic the rumble of a V-twin (switchable into stealth mode).
Hey, you said it's a WISH list. ;)
Yes exactly! I think the touring crowd agrees. It's difficult to get this to be seen at Zero tho. Previous marketing VP Scot Harden was a dirtbike legend, almost the entire R&D team are really good dirt bike riders and enjoy off roading in their own time. Almost no one there rides cross country for fun, so while I want a very heavy bike to be stable on the highway, most everyone at Zero can't understand this and wants lighter and lighter and lighter. Even the CTO owns a lightweight Zero FX instead of an SR so there isn't really anyone at Zero, except the head of R&D who is a bigger guy and also an Iron Butt member himself who might understand the benefit of a nice heavy bike for the touring market.
I have added some extra batteries and have 35 kWh of battery and about 200 miles highway range right now and it feels great! Been to LA and back 4 times in the last 6 weeks and the 400 mile trip is so easy, you are down there so quick you can still put in a half day's work after you arrive.
The owner of Hollywood Electrics, Harlan, took my bike for a test ride the other day and was shocked how light feeling and easy to ride it was, even being twice the weight of his racebikes. Having a heavy bike doesn't mean it has to feel heavy or be hard to handle. I think lots of people don't understand this and are afraid of heavy bikes for no reason. I've seen a 95 pound girl toss around a 900 pound Goldwing like a rag doll. So for most riders averaging 150-200 pounds, an 800 pound touring Zero, with 250-300 miles range and fast charging would be perfect.
If a touring bike was done right I think it could be one of Zero's biggest sellers. With longbricks costing about $3k today for 6.5 kWh and 80 pounds, making a touring bike to compete with an 800 pound $35k BMW K1600 GTL exclusive shouldn't be too hard from a weight or price standpoint. With fast chargers my Zero today can go further than 99% of the current BMW K1600 owners probably ever do in a day. The time is right to have Zero make a $25-30k touring bike, but I have a feeling until Zero hires an Iron Butt or touring rider to be part of the executive team, no one will understand the purpose as it's not something they could see themselves riding.
I would love to see Zero make an 800 pound bike with 250-300 miles highway range with a nice touring fairing and aerodynamic luggage with 500 liters of storage space total in different spots on the bike. The heavier the better for high speed highway riding. The heavier the bike the less the wind blows you around, and if the wheels stay about the same weight, the bike rides butter smooth as the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight increases in your favor so the bike stays steady and the suspension alone moves over bumps and bridge gaps. A lightweight bike will leave you with a sore ass after 500 miles of highway riding and need 3 days to recover. I'd like to see a nice strong frame that holds 6 longbricks in the belly and has a 15 inch longer wheelbase for better highway stability. Something like 65-70 inches or so. All we can hope is a great touring rider from the AMA Hall of Fame perhaps can join Zero in the near future and add this necessary influence otherwise I don't see who's going to push it to happen.
But at a minimum I hope they can offer a kit like the powertank that will allow adding up to 4 longbricks as panniers or front "crash bar" mounts for those who would like to do electric touring in the meantime. For the short term however you will have to do these mods yourself or see if a company like Hollywood Electrics can develop a touring kit they can sell or perhaps even rent by the week for those who want to take a 2-3 week journey each year but otherwise don't need the range on a daily basis.
It's going to take time for this demand to increase tho, as most of Zero's current owners are not touring riders. Because if you already were a touring rider, you probably didn't buy a Zero. it's the chicken and egg scenario. But the riders won't come to Zero first and try to modify it themselves, Zero will have to build a touring bike to pull all these riders in.
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Designing such a frame incl. the fork, making it work (suspension etc) and getting it certified, adjust your production line, logistics, etc. is a huge investment. I wonder how many bikes must be sold to recover that investment? I guess that's the question that Zero is trying to get answered too and probably the return on investment so far was not favorable.
Remember in 2013 there was the big upgrade and since then only relatively small upgrades and improvements of that platform. some recalls also occurred in that period so my guess is that cash for investments is not going to be abundant. I assume some tough choices have to made by the product development team on the long list of wishes each time they plan a new model year.
Zero may have a reverse Tesla masterplan: build as many bikes as possible to attract enough investors to do the exclusive bikes, or get acquired by a manufacturer of ICE bikes...
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Hi folks,
Something I really would like to see in a Zero Motorcycle, and I don't know why I'm not seeing it already is :
- A virtual lock, when the keyfob is set on the lock for the handlebar, that would lock rear wheel with the electrical motor. The Segway PT has that mode and when you try to move the machine, the wheels are locking themselves.
- A way to prevent the machine from starting when stolen using the App and the serial number of the unit (quite obvious). And maybe to tell the owner where is his bike when somebody is trying to pair his phone to the stolen Zero.
- An option to get the rear red light to work when you are in the highest mode of regenerative braking (like the Tesla).
Someday maybe.
Cheers.
Franswa
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I have added some extra batteries and have 35 kWh of battery and about 200 miles highway range right now and it feels great!
Hey Terry, how heavy is your bike now, and which year is it? Are you referring to your 2015 SR? Have you done any suspension mods and/or anything else to help the bike handle that much weight?
As you know, I ride a 2014 SR and I'm a heavy guy. But I'm having so much fun with my SCv2 that I'm seriously considering gearing up and doing some motorcycle camping trips with my girlfriend next year (I'm blessed with a girlfriend who not only loves to ride, she loves to camp!). But I am concerned about the possible consequences of overloading the bike in the long term. Between me and my (very petite) girlfriend, along with my aftermarket load (rack and top box, SCv2), we're a bit over the maximum rated capacity of the bike already. It handles fine with her on it, though, and I've upgraded the tires, rear shock, rear wheel bearings, and so far we've just done short rides. But if I add saddlebags, camping gear, etc. we're going to be probably 100 pounds over the rated capacity of the bike, and we'll do much longer distances.
So I'm wondering if that would be pushing my luck too far. So far as I know, you've carried a heavier load than anyone, for a lot more range than anybody else. Has that had an adverse impact so far?
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Hi Terry (I'm not going to copy that massive quote) I saw your extra battery bike and glad to hear you and Harlan like the ride feel. What else did you do to the bike? Are they the stock forks and rear spring? Does the stock SR motor seem to mind the extra weight?
You and Harlan could build a couple of the big touring bikes (with a little $ help from Zero) and rent them out to gather R&D data.
Also why don't you and Brian and Cowboy and Harlan get on the Zero payroll already? :)
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Doug that's too funny i was writing mine while you posted your.
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This is made possible by a hub motor integrated into the rear wheel.
I'm a sensitive snowflake who's triggered when hub motors are proposed for suspended wheels.
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Just to own a Zero! ;)
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I have added some extra batteries and have 35 kWh of battery and about 200 miles highway range right now and it feels great!
Hey Terry, how heavy is your bike now, and which year is it? Are you referring to your 2015 SR? Have you done any suspension mods and/or anything else to help the bike handle that much weight?
As you know, I ride a 2014 SR and I'm a heavy guy. But I'm having so much fun with my SCv2 that I'm seriously considering gearing up and doing some motorcycle camping trips with my girlfriend next year (I'm blessed with a girlfriend who not only loves to ride, she loves to camp!). But I am concerned about the possible consequences of overloading the bike in the long term. Between me and my (very petite) girlfriend, along with my aftermarket load (rack and top box, SCv2), we're a bit over the maximum rated capacity of the bike already. It handles fine with her on it, though, and I've upgraded the tires, rear shock, rear wheel bearings, and so far we've just done short rides. But if I add saddlebags, camping gear, etc. we're going to be probably 100 pounds over the rated capacity of the bike, and we'll do much longer distances.
So I'm wondering if that would be pushing my luck too far. So far as I know, you've carried a heavier load than anyone, for a lot more range than anybody else. Has that had an adverse impact so far?
I did a 1100mi trip this year with wife, SCv2's, plus side cases loaded with 50lbs of stuff. Had no riding issues, or issues of any kind. Definitely overweight (not Terry overweight though) on my 16'SR, no adverse effects. I think your camping trips will be fine.
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I have added some extra batteries and have 35 kWh of battery and about 200 miles highway range right now and it feels great!
Hey Terry, how heavy is your bike now, and which year is it? Are you referring to your 2015 SR? Have you done any suspension mods and/or anything else to help the bike handle that much weight?
As you know, I ride a 2014 SR and I'm a heavy guy. But I'm having so much fun with my SCv2 that I'm seriously considering gearing up and doing some motorcycle camping trips with my girlfriend next year (I'm blessed with a girlfriend who not only loves to ride, she loves to camp!). But I am concerned about the possible consequences of overloading the bike in the long term. Between me and my (very petite) girlfriend, along with my aftermarket load (rack and top box, SCv2), we're a bit over the maximum rated capacity of the bike already. It handles fine with her on it, though, and I've upgraded the tires, rear shock, rear wheel bearings, and so far we've just done short rides. But if I add saddlebags, camping gear, etc. we're going to be probably 100 pounds over the rated capacity of the bike, and we'll do much longer distances.
So I'm wondering if that would be pushing my luck too far. So far as I know, you've carried a heavier load than anyone, for a lot more range than anybody else. Has that had an adverse impact so far?
I did a 1100mi trip this year with wife, SCv2's, plus side cases loaded with 50lbs of stuff. Had no riding issues, or issues of any kind. Definitely overweight (not Terry overweight though) on my 16'SR, no adverse effects. I think your camping trips will be fine.
The 2015+ suspension and bearings are thankfully in a proper class to handle a lot of load, even though we still push boundaries. Pre-2016 suspension and bearings strain harder to meet our demands and wear out relatively regularly. And yeah my 16DSR handles a lot of equipment on highways just fine, although I would appreciate a big frame upgrade to really support the riders who intend to put on 100k+ miles.
I concur with Terry that e.g. the Goldwing geometry makes a heavy bike feel lightweight; it's all about the distribution and handling geometry and suspension setup.
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A touring version has appeal for folks to get out and do serious cross country riding but the upfront investment for a company as young and small as Zero is a real gamble. To allow their current offerings the freedom of long cruising and fast DC charging they could farm out a trailer build to test the market. I'm part of the aging baby boomers, and we represent a very large population bubble with ready cash and plenty of time. My thoughts on the trailer is for it to carry batteries capable of the 300 mile range that Tesla has and be able to charge at Tesla's supercharger stations that are popping up all over the country. The battery bricks would be in a parallel configuration for riding and when plugged into a Supercharger, 100 amp rated contacts on relays would change the bricks to series for the voltage of the Supercharger. Since most all charge stations are pull in and back out, and we don't know if or when Zero will offer reverse, the trailer could be configured with a low power motor for backing up. I know, crazy idea, but it would give the motocross hierarchy of Zero's management an idea of how many of us want to travel the country on electric bikes without them having to invest in an unknown market.
On a very small and admiringly low buck amateur scale I did this about 13 years ago. Before there was Zero. I was into EVs and I used the same motor they started with 10 years ago on their first offering. It is called an Etek and was developed for Briggs and Stranton 15+ years ago when B&S entered the electric outboard market. Not a puny little Minnkota kind of trolling motor, but a serious PMDC motor. I hooked up with a group of gas minibike racers and it wasn't long before they changed their event to a 50 miler in Arizona on route 66. My little creation back then was fast but only had a range of 6 miles. My solution was to build a battery trailer and haul (6) 180 ahr flooded golf cart batteries to extend my range. To give you an idea of the strength of the Etek motor, it did just fine hauling a 110 lb scooter, a 220 lb rider and towing that 450 lb trailer for the 50 mile run plus I still had about 10 miles of range left.
URL=http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/deckofficer/media/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605c.jpg.html](http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/deckofficer/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605c.jpg)[/URL]
Used a golf cart charger.
URL=http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/deckofficer/media/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605e.jpg.html](http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/deckofficer/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605e.jpg)[/URL]
Here it is unencumbered by the trailer. You have to remember this is at least 2 years before the first Zero (it wasn't called that back then).
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/deckofficer/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605a.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/deckofficer/media/Electric%20Smart%20car%20%20%20%20going%20green/605a.jpg.html)
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Cool project Bob!
Doug and others, yes I used the Hollywood Electrics suspension specialist Bobby Loo from MotorRev Suspension Tuning to upgrade the spring rate in both the forks and shock. If any of you are in the Southern California area and plan on carrying more than 300 pounds (including yourself) I would get the suspension upgraded through Hollywood Electrics and MotorRev Suspension Tuning. It only takes a few hours and the bike is forever changed. If you're a bigger guy (150 pounds or more) and carry anything else on a regular basis (powertank, passenger, chargers, Husky, top case full of tools, etc) you will appreciate this upgrade.
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Thanks Terry. Since it was finished 13 years ago it's no longer a project. As a very respected member of the EV community I would like your input. Would you consider towing a battery trailer behind your Zero? I have found a small aluminum trailer with a 500 lb payload and swivel hitch (so you can still crank and bank in the twisties). Plenty of room for batteries and camping gear.
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I bet Zero and their lawyers would recommend against towing a trailer with a Zero. ;)
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For 2018 I'd like to see a Zero representative in this forum, to answer some questions.
Communication with Zero is bad. Most of our questions are left unanswered, we speculate a lot.. [emoji4]
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For 2018 I'd like to see a Zero representative in this forum, to answer some questions.
Communication with Zero is bad. Most of our questions are left unanswered, we speculate a lot.. [emoji4]
I can't think of any vehicle enthusiast forum where a representative from the manufacturer will comment or reply to any member's question - although the Brammo forum was an exception while the company was still in the business of making motorcycles. It just isn't something that is authorized by management or approved by their lawyers. So you get what you pay for when receiving advice on a forum like this. ;)
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Zero's customer service lack. Their method of doing everything through the dealers is problematic at times.
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Zero, unlike others in the automotive marketplace is sure tight lipped about their next year models. Last year it wasn't till November before press releases. I wonder if they do this to help their dealer network clear out current year models with discounts? The option of CHAdeMO charging is what I'm waiting for and will buy from the first manufacture that provides that on their electric motorcycle. Lightning LS218 has it but hasn't started production to my knowledge. That is how important CHAdeMO charging is for me, I'd buy a Lightning at $38K before a Zero at $18K that doesn't have it. I would buy a Zero today if they had CHAdeMO. My fingers are crossed they will offer it on their 2018 lineup.
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I would buy a Zero today if they had CHAdeMO. My fingers are crossed they will offer it on their 2018 lineup.
Ditto, I have seriously been considering an Energica Eva purely because of the CCS charging ability. I would be able to ride from DC to New York and back with no worries.
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Yup, if they offered DC charging I'd want one too, and I'm sure they could sell as many units as they could produce if they offered DC charging.
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We don't have long to wait. The dealer conference call is on Oct 4th. If we all start chanting DC-DC-DC-DC, do you think they'd get the message?
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One item that will probably be in the 2018 models is the new 32 Ah Farasis cells. Same weight and footprint as the current 29 Ah cells with a 10% increase in energy density, so a 10% increase in range.
Does anyone know what the energy density is for the current cell? I kept searching and Doctorbass had shared a fact sheet on the older 25 ah cell. 185 whr/kg so if the current cell maintains the same weight it would be 215 whr/kg.
It seems energy density has become trade secrets. It wasn't that way just 10 years ago when I was rolling my own.
After a lot of research I found someone that weighed the new 2170 cell Tesla is producing at their Gigafactory and it is 66 grams. Since it is rated at 5,750 ma, I finally know its energy density is a very good 322.2 wh/kg. To put that into a Zero perspective, I believe the (4) packs that make up the 13 kwh pack weigh about 168 lb, correct me if I'm wrong. Using the Tesla's new 2170 cell the pack would weigh 89 lb. So you could have a 25 kwh pack for the same weight as the Farasis cell pack currently used. How nice would it be to have 200 mile range at 70 mph?
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We don't have long to wait. The dealer conference call is on Oct 4th. If we all start chanting DC-DC-DC-DC, do you think they'd get the message?
Hehe.. Hopefully they're reading the forums and seeing how many threads are about faster charging and working on it. JustinZeroMoto, a Zero employee, replied to this thread earlier saying "KEEP EM COMING", so at least they're reading this thread :)
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As I posted on another thread, for minimal cost Zero could remove the bottom onboard charger, drop the battery 2 inches and put an air-cooled charger on top of the battery with a cowling pointing downwards to stop water ingress. Intake and exit could be at the back to help as well.
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Belt adjustment jack bolts that are fine thread & have a smooth head instead of the ones on my 16DSR that are course thread & have embossed figures on the head that dig into the soft aluminum block that they push against (actually just the left side does this as that's were the force is needed to tension the belt).
The fine thread would allow finer adjustment.
Stainless steel would also be a nice touch providing all the metals used played nice with each other.
Oh, & a dab of anti-seize on the threads & bolt heads for lubrication would also be nice (but easily done on the first adjustment by the owner).
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"KEEP EM COMING"
Speed Control
I think I have mentioned this on every wish list thread.
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Speed Control
I think I have mentioned this on every wish list thread.
I've mentioned it a lot, as well...seems like a fairly quick firmware exercise. Equally simple should be a "creep" reverse mode, to get out of downhill-facing parking spots. A single button could manage both functions. Push and hold the button at zero speed, the bike creeps backwards when you apply some throttle; push the button when you're at speed and it engages the speed control.
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I've mentioned it a lot, as well...seems like a fairly quick firmware exercise. Equally simple should be a "creep" reverse mode, to get out of downhill-facing parking spots. A single button could manage both functions. Push and hold the button at zero speed, the bike creeps backwards when you apply some throttle; push the button when you're at speed and it engages the speed control.
Yamaha heard you. Check out "Park Assist" on the 2018 Venture. I can see the usefulness for a 950 lbs luxo-tourer, but a 400 lbs Zero? Not necessary.
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"creep" reverse
I can see the usefulness for a 950 lbs luxo-tourer, but a 400 lbs Zero? Not necessary.
I can't back up uphill without getting off and pushing.
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First bike I remember seeing it on was one of Honda's Gold Wangs. Sure, a heavier bike needs it more, but if you've got any appreciable slope, dabbing your feet just doesn't give you enough leverage to move even a 400-lb bike.
Although, to be sure, I always try to park with my front wheel higher than the rear, so I almost always back into a spot like that, so I'll be going forward when I leave. But sometimes you can't do that -- if there's too much side angle as well, sometimes you need to park with the kickstand on one side or the other for stability.
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I can't push my FX backward while sitting on it, but that's because of my shortness, not the bikes heaviness. (Just think "tippy toes.")
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Amen on the rapid charging! They should include J1772 inlets for at 6.7kw
I like grmarks' idea to put the charger on top of the battery. Even if it is a slow-charger it'd make for an easier swap-out of a bulkier rapid-charger.
Of course, if we get rapid-DC in, the charger isn't bulky, cuz the station matches battery voltage and amp limit, the station is the charger then : - )
Drop the 1C limit. Make it 2C or 3C. Farasis says 3C is OK for their cells. I'm OK slowing the charging above 113v, wherever necessary to prevent overheat, but in the mid-range, where there's low internal resistance, let us charge fast.
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OK folks, time to get you final bets in, the dealer conference call is tomorrow. I'm still wishing for level 2 charging as standard (to go with the factory installed SCv2). And a low seat height touring cruiser would be great.
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LED lights, traction control and lower seat height options on S/SR models.
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I'm dying!
What'd you learn on the conference call?
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the dealer conference call is tomorrow
It's tomorrow now. Any news?!?
OK, still early, and I'm east coast.
But make sure to bring in any news. :-D
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the dealer conference call is tomorrow
It's tomorrow now. Any news?!?
OK, still early, and I'm east coast.
But make sure to bring in any news. :-D
Somebody on the ZMOG facebook page said the announcement is OCT 17, but I dunno if that is the dealer call as well. I know Zero has my 2018 sitting there all brand new waiting for me to buy it, and I cant take the suspense!! :o
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So your saying there is still time to put in change requests? :)
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I've got almost 15,000 miles on my 2014 DS(P) now. The vast majority of that has been commuting. However, my 65 mile range is still good for around a two hours of riding around the Hertfordshire countryside. A 2017 SR or DSR with some Aero (weather protection and economy) and as much range as possible would be fantastic for 2018! Even just a range bump would be good because it would hopefully come at no additional cost. Yes, of course I would love ChaDeMo but it has to be affordable and has to work. I really can't justify the cost of a Super Charger or the Aussie version because I don't get enough time off the leash to go touring. A couple of hours at the weekend is about as much as I can manage with a three year old at home. Actually, it's more that I feel a bit selfish if I disappear for too long at the weekends. I do actually like spending time with my family, so it's mostly my choice. Part of me can't wait for them to grow up and bugger off though, so I can do some proper motorcycling! ;-)
I absolutely love riding my Zero, so thanks to all of you here that put up with me for almost three years before I managed to buy one! :-)
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Here's a few things I learned about the '18 models. They're changing the colors on some of the models. The motor power stays the same as '17. Battery capacity is up from 13.0 to 14.4, 7.2 for FX, and 3.6 for power tank. Charge tank goes from 3hr to 2hr charge time (stock charger stays the same). No new models for '18. I'm sure there's more but this should keep us busy until the full public announcement is made.
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Woo! Bump in battery capacity.
Happy my wait wasn't in vain.
'18 FX 7.2kWh destined for my garage.
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Here's a few things I learned about the '18 models. They're changing the colors on some of the models. The motor power stays the same as '17. Battery capacity is up from 13.0 to 14.4, 7.2 for FX, and 3.6 for power tank. Charge tank goes from 3hr to 2hr charge time (stock charger stays the same). No new models for '18. I'm sure there's more but this should keep us busy until the full public announcement is made.
Sounds good to me. I plan to buy a 2018 S power-tank model as soon as the official announcement is made and my dealer knows the price.
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Here's a few things I learned about the '18 models. They're changing the colors on some of the models. The motor power stays the same as '17. Battery capacity is up from 13.0 to 14.4, 7.2 for FX, and 3.6 for power tank. Charge tank goes from 3hr to 2hr charge time (stock charger stays the same). No new models for '18. I'm sure there's more but this should keep us busy until the full public announcement is made.
14.4? :-\ lame. Was hoping for 15 i guees that will wait for 2019... 16.4 in 2020??
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That’s a greater than 10% advancement in capacity. That’s amazing.
Every time I think I’m done with Zero, they pull me back in. My SOC, range and pack capacity is all off thanks to a bad firmware update, but damnit if I wouldn’t love a 170 mile (at 55MPH) range SR with powertank.
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Sounds like good stuff. I was at the dealer this week picking up my rear rack. They wouldn't tell me anything since they were not allowed to say. The only thing they did mention was some new colors.
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I hope the increase in charge tank speed is true and backwards compatible. Ive been wanting to get a charge tank but holding out for the 2018 announcement to see if they did this.
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new colors replace some old ones ?
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new colors replace some old ones ?
I may be the only one, but I hope they keep yellow. ;) All of my luggage is yellow. ::)
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Here's a few things I learned about the '18 models. They're changing the colors on some of the models. The motor power stays the same as '17. Battery capacity is up from 13.0 to 14.4, 7.2 for FX, and 3.6 for power tank. Charge tank goes from 3hr to 2hr charge time (stock charger stays the same). No new models for '18. I'm sure there's more but this should keep us busy until the full public announcement is made.
If this turns out to be the reality:
- What's a realistic range travelling at 55mph?
Are Zeros claims realistic?
SR 13.0=158 km, SR 14.4=158/13*14,4=175 km?
DSR 13.0=142 km, DSR 14.4=142/13*14,4=157 km?
- How many kW would a Zero with the new charge tank be able to charge at?
14,4 kW/2=7,2kW?
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Typically 100Wh/mile at 55MPH. So, easy math there. But, when you start charging faster, it becomes more efficient to ride as fast as your want, so long as you have the range to make it to the next charger.
Sounds about right, if it really does promise a 2 hour charge. I'm not sure that they'd go that high with a charger, knowing it could pop many EVSEs though. Maybe they Tesla is and make it pull back on the amps if the voltage sags too much.
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Hi all. This is my first post, although I’ve been lurking for a couple months as I contemplate the decision for my next toy.
I was at a local dealer this week who also confirmed a few of these same details. No new models for 2018 and no "performance" improvements. All focus has been on improvements to range and charging speed/capacity. Oh, and some new/different colors. The gentleman indicated that the price difference between remaining 2017 models and new 2018 models is about $2,000.
I fully understand focusing all progress on range and charging at this point, as that is my own biggest hesitation about jumping on board. I love the idea of electric, and the 13.0 will (barely) meet my daily commute of 100 (mostly freeway) miles. The SR would be a daily rider for me 90-95% of the time. It’s that other 5-10% of the time that causes me to hesitate... the Saturday rides with buddys, where I have to stop, turn around, and go home after 50 miles while they all continue riding the rest of the day. That thought makes me sad.
Anyway, I’m definitely interested.
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Anything on PlugShare that you could get the gang to stop at for lunch or breakfast? An hour of charging with a supercharger and you’d be back to 90% power.
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Better maintenance support from dealers! My SR is around 18 months old. I called the dealer I bought it from for the 1st maintenance (per owner's manual) and was told, "oh, there's no scheduled maintenance." WTF? Called a second dealer (I live in the SF Bay area, so there are several) and they seemed to know what I was talking about, so I've taken it there for initial and 4K maintenance. Unf, my kickstand started screaching and acting funny not long after the 4K. I looked in the manual, and it's in the list of things to be checked. Clearly, the dealer didn't do this. I sprayed some lubricant, and wow, what a difference. I'm now wondering if *any* dealers actually pay attention to Zero's maintenance schedules. And what else my local dealer didn't check.
2nd wish, of course, is longer range/faster charging. I expect this will greatly improve during the next five years, as EVs (two and four wheel) become more common-place, thus spurring innovations in battery technology and reductions in pricing. In the meantime I've bought a Honda CB500X for multi-day touring. Great bike -- but not nearly as much pure fun as my SR. Unf, there aren't charging stations (that I know of) in any of the national parks/forests in California.
That's about it for me. Unlike postings in other threads, my 2016 SR has performed flawlessly.
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Ugh. Kinda disappointed in the color choice for the SR. (White) I know you can't please everyone but was really hoping for black. Other than that excited about the 2018's.
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https://youtu.be/FXuqQHPxggA
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It appears that my dreams have been answered. Everything remains pretty much the same. Just a little better than last year. ;) The colors look a little bland, though. :(
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more battery, more rapid charging, different colors, more expensive, not the same
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more battery, more rapid charging, different colors, more expensive, not the same
The same relative to what you might have expected from Brammo Brian, who is now running the Zero engineering and development department. ;) I am sure that he hasn't had enough time to put his ideas into Zero's design yet. That might take a couple more years.
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Im checking the Zero website right now... I can only get a new SR in WHITE?? What the fuck?
Its not even a color. It looks like a teenage girl's iPhone.
Their not to mention their whole damn site is horrible now.
Im extremely disappointed. I will be buying a new SR after the start of the new year, but I dont want a white one. Now I have to order '17 plastics or paint my brand new bike. You would think they would realize that color OPTIONS should be a thing... like every other bike.
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Im checking the Zero website right now... I can only get a new SR in WHITE?? What the fuck?
Its not even a color. It looks like a teenage girl's iPhone.
Their not to mention their whole damn site is horrible now.
Im extremely disappointed. I will be buying a new SR after the start of the new year, but I dont want a white one. Now I have to order '17 plastics or paint my brand new bike. You would think they would realize that color OPTIONS should be a thing... like every other bike.
I second your opinion. Am highly disappointed in the white color choice for the SR as well. I wasn't a huge fan of the red either but would take that over the white option. I'm not sure what I plan to do when I get mine in April. It cost quite a bit to have a bike painted, (I want black) and these are expensive enough. Decisions, decisions.
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Well, the white color of the S model that I ordered yesterday doesn't look much better and I am not sure that the looks are going to be improved after I put my yellow luggage on the bike. I guess Zero got a big discount on lots of white plastic this year. ::) Now, let me see. Where did I put that rattle can of yellow paint....... ;)
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Well, the white color of the S model that I ordered yesterday doesn't look much better and I am not sure that the looks are going to be improved after I put my yellow luggage on the bike. I guess Zero got a big discount on lots of white plastic this year. ::) Now, let me see. Where did I put that rattle can of yellow paint....... ;)
Richard did you order the 13.0 S with powertank for 16.6 total?
Or did you go with the SR 14.4 with powertank for 18.0 total?
I know you like as much range as possible, but I also know you don't like to accelerate too fast, so I'm curious which you picked?
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In another post he said he got the "S" with the PT. But Richard that one isn't white is a light silver.
Have to hand it to you your a man of your word enjoy those extra miles, you've earned them!
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In another post he said he got the "S" with the PT. But Richard that one isn't white is a light silver.
Have to hand it to you your a man of your word enjoy those extra miles, you've earned them!
It looked like white to me. But silver is OK, too. Whatever the color, likely I won't have a choice.
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ok, everybody, time to switch to the new thread. the 2018s have been announced.
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ok, everybody, time to switch to the new thread. the 2018s have been announced.
Sounds good; can someone lock this thread?
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ok, everybody, time to switch to the new thread. the 2018s have been announced.
Are we going to start a wish-list thread for the 2019 Zeros? ;)