ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Wolfsbane on September 06, 2017, 09:34:20 PM
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As those of us who have the Tesla adapter for the J1772 modular connector from DigiNow are probably aware, the adapter doesn't work on the new version of the Tesla wall connector. Apparently, Tesla incorporated some kind of authentication protocol or "handshake" into v2 of the wall connector. Fortunately, there is a way around this. Unfortunately, it requires you to kill power from the breaker to the wall connector and take the wall connector apart with security torx screws. Anyway, inside the HPWC (high power wall connector) are two small dip switches. The switch on the left is to choose between a 240v and greater line to neutral installation or a 240v and less line to line installation. Although the installation manual doesn't tell you this, the dip switch on the right is for the electronic "handshake". Simply flip the switch to the down position and the wall connector will act like any normal charger allowing you to use a J1772 adapter to run your DigiNow Supercharger and fast charge your Zero!
I recognize that this is not an ideal fix for being able to access all the Tesla HPWC's in the wild as tampering with property that doesn't belong to you is generally frowned upon in polite society, but it a solution for those who are hoping to use the Tesla HPWC at home to charge both their current or future Tesla vehicles and their Zero or other EVs.
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In the latter case you'd be better of with a J1772 plug and adapter to Tesla.
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In my case I wanted to take advantage of the HPWC's 80amp delivery on a 100amp circuit and load sharing ability for multiple Teslas.
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Good to know, thanks for the info. So we'd need some kind of proprietary Tesla handshake to use the new destination chargers?
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Good to know, thanks for the info. So we'd need some kind of proprietary Tesla handshake to use the new destination chargers?
Unless you can flip that second dip switch down, unfortunately the answer is yes. If you ask sweetly maybe the owner of the destination charger would let you open it up to access the switch, but that's a big IF and you'd have to have the security torx heads with you. You'd also need to be able to kill power to the destination charger before tinkering around in there.
It might be easier if one of our more resourceful members could figure out a way to emulate the handshake.
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Isn't the handshake built into the DigiNow adapter?
https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM (https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM)
Or was this the v1 charger?
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Isn't the handshake built into the DigiNow adapter?
https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM (https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM)
Or was this the v1 charger?
no.
The "normal" Tesla connector is just J1772 with a different physical connector. There is no data handshake, just a few voltages to signal.
The NEW Tesla connector has some kind of handshake on the data/signal line. It is still J1772 compatible on the car, but if the EVSE requires it, it will not work.
The ideal solution is that tesla does not do something underhanded like that. However it is too late for that.
The next best thing, is that the diginow emulates the Tesla EVs in doing both the handshake and working on standard J1772 chargers.
Currently... you could just set the NEW tesla station to work on all devices.
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Isn't the handshake built into the DigiNow adapter?
https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM (https://youtu.be/M-rZ8nmjfeM)
Or was this the v1 charger?
It isn't. And yes, that's a v1 charger.
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Currently... you could just set the NEW tesla station to work on all devices.
It's a shame Tesla doesn't even give that option in the installation manual. It only states that the second dip switch should ALWAYS be in the up position. I would have tried it sooner, in fact my electrician wanted to, but I was afraid of harming the wall connector by defying the instructions. So much for a company that loves to boast about its commitment to advancing sustainable transport for everyone and "open patents". 🙄
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As those of us who have the Tesla adapter for the J1772 modular connector from DigiNow are probably aware, the adapter doesn't work on the new version of the Tesla wall connector. Apparently, Tesla incorporated some kind of authentication protocol or "handshake" into v2 of the wall connector. Fortunately, there is a way around this. Unfortunately, it requires you to kill power from the breaker to the wall connector and take the wall connector apart with security torx screws. Anyway, inside the HPWC (high power wall connector) are two small dip switches. The switch on the left is to choose between a 240v and greater line to neutral installation or a 240v and less line to line installation. Although the installation manual doesn't tell you this, the dip switch on the right is for the electronic "handshake". Simply flip the switch to the down position and the wall connector will act like any normal charger allowing you to use a J1772 adapter to run your DigiNow Supercharger and fast charge your Zero!
I recognize that this is not an ideal fix for being able to access all the Tesla HPWC's in the wild as tampering with property that doesn't belong to you is generally frowned upon in polite society, but it a solution for those who are hoping to use the Tesla HPWC at home to charge both their current or future Tesla vehicles and their Zero or other EVs.
Do you have the 3-pin connector on your T-inlet?
If so, I'll send you one of the potted circuits I've been making to test for the cost of shipping.
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I am very interested to hear more about this. I tried googling, but have not yet found any information about Tesla's authentication (beyond the standard J1772 resistance signaling for available power levels).
I have meant to make a Tesla adaptor for my DubJay setup for a while, but have not started yet. If anyone can point me to any more technical details I would appreciate it.
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The story is that the new Tesla destination stations, all the ones installed in the last 6 months or so, require a 10+ second pause between Vehicle Present and Vehicle Ready To Charge. I think Electric Terry was saying there's an outer limit, but I don't recall what it is.
Vehicle Present is represented by a diode and a 2.7k resistor from Pilot to Ground. Vehicle Ready To Charge is represented by an additional 1.3k in parallel to the first. (There's also a third state that requires ventilation for lead acid batteres, which is irrelevant to us.)
Up until now a lot of EVs have implemented J-inlet and T-inlet signalling by simply going straight to Vehicle Ready To Charge, a simple diode and resistor. Cheap and simple.
I've implemented a manual delay between the states this by adding a switch with a rubber cover and a pair of 2.7k resistors that are brought in in parallel to the first 2.7k resistor and I've tested it at the only station I know of that requires the delay. I normally have the switch in Ready To Charge (on), but if that fails, I unplug, switch to off (Vehicle Present), count eleven seconds in my head ("it goes to eleven!", haha), and switch to Ready To Charge.
Mechanically, I potted the whole thing, in a little plastic container along with a 1/4 bolt for secure mounting. I'll post a picture of one of my incarnations, and I assume the above is enough for you to google the schematics yourself. I think the one from evtv is the clearest as to what's going on.
In my photo you'll see the connector, which matches the one on my T-inlet. If your T-inlet doesn't have that connector, my little brick won't work for you. I imagine the various vendors who make the T-inlets will be integrating a switch or a timer.
I'm not aware of any J1772 that require the delay, though honoring the two states is part of the protocol. Let me know if you know of any.
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I see. Both of my J1772 adaptors I've made have a switch to signal vehicle present vs. vehicle ready to charge, so adding a straight-thru T-inlet should work fine. I was worried that there was more to it.
I can't remember where, but I have definitely run into a very few J1772 stations that gave me an error when I plugged with with the switch already set to charge, so I'm glad I already have that circuit.
Also, because I charge with multiple chargers in parallel, it's nice to be able to temporarily pause the EVSE by flipping the switch and plug/unplug a charger not under load, and then re-enable to continue charging without starting a new payment session.
Especially at low battery voltage (20% SoC), in my setup with all chargers, the higher amperage will exceed the 93% 1C charge limit (93A or 94A) and the bike will open the contactor, so I leave unplugged one of the 1kW chargers until the battery is above 60% SoC and voltage has risen, then add that last 1kW charger and I can get 92A charge rate on my 2014 10kWh Zero.
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Whoa, awesome! You guys are a great wealth of information ;D
So attaching a Tesla inlet straight to the DigiNows is a good way to go?
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As those of us who have the Tesla adapter for the J1772 modular connector from DigiNow are probably aware, the adapter doesn't work on the new version of the Tesla wall connector. Apparently, Tesla incorporated some kind of authentication protocol or "handshake" into v2 of the wall connector. Fortunately, there is a way around this. Unfortunately, it requires you to kill power from the breaker to the wall connector and take the wall connector apart with security torx screws. Anyway, inside the HPWC (high power wall connector) are two small dip switches. The switch on the left is to choose between a 240v and greater line to neutral installation or a 240v and less line to line installation. Although the installation manual doesn't tell you this, the dip switch on the right is for the electronic "handshake". Simply flip the switch to the down position and the wall connector will act like any normal charger allowing you to use a J1772 adapter to run your DigiNow Supercharger and fast charge your Zero!
I recognize that this is not an ideal fix for being able to access all the Tesla HPWC's in the wild as tampering with property that doesn't belong to you is generally frowned upon in polite society, but it a solution for those who are hoping to use the Tesla HPWC at home to charge both their current or future Tesla vehicles and their Zero or other EVs.
Do you have the 3-pin connector on your T-inlet?
If so, I'll send you one of the potted circuits I've been making to test for the cost of shipping.
Indeed mine is a 3-pin. I'd be interested to try your solution.
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The story is that the new Tesla destination stations, all the ones installed in the last 6 months or so, require a 10+ second pause between Vehicle Present and Vehicle Ready To Charge. I think Electric Terry was saying there's an outer limit, but I don't recall what it is.
Vehicle Present is represented by a diode and a 2.7k resistor from Pilot to Ground. Vehicle Ready To Charge is represented by an additional 1.3k in parallel to the first. (There's also a third state that requires ventilation for lead acid batteres, which is irrelevant to us.)
Up until now a lot of EVs have implemented J-inlet and T-inlet signalling by simply going straight to Vehicle Ready To Charge, a simple diode and resistor. Cheap and simple.
I've implemented a manual delay between the states this by adding a switch with a rubber cover and a pair of 2.7k resistors that are brought in in parallel to the first 2.7k resistor and I've tested it at the only station I know of that requires the delay. I normally have the switch in Ready To Charge (on), but if that fails, I unplug, switch to off (Vehicle Present), count eleven seconds in my head ("it goes to eleven!", haha), and switch to Ready To Charge.
Mechanically, I potted the whole thing, in a little plastic container along with a 1/4 bolt for secure mounting. I'll post a picture of one of my incarnations, and I assume the above is enough for you to google the schematics yourself. I think the one from evtv is the clearest as to what's going on.
In my photo you'll see the connector, which matches the one on my T-inlet. If your T-inlet doesn't have that connector, my little brick won't work for you. I imagine the various vendors who make the T-inlets will be integrating a switch or a timer.
I'm not aware of any J1772 that require the delay, though honoring the two states is part of the protocol. Let me know if you know of any.
is it really just a 10+ second delay on the new Tesla EVSE? Everything I read says theres something more to it.
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Yes, I think so.
Anyone know of any confirmed SF Bay Area T-stations that
don't work with the aftermarket T-inlets?
I've only tested with the one, in the parking garage under
a Holiday Inn Express, but both Luke and I have had success
with his "count to 11 then flip the switch" strategy.
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Diode, "minus" to "pilot", "plus" end soldered to 3 x 2.7k ohm resistors.
Other end of one resistor, solder to ground. This is "Vehicle Present" mode when switch is off.
1N4001 diode works, I used them in my first batch. Second batch was 1N4007 which are more robust. Resistor current is very small, even 1/8 watt resistors are fine.
One of those resistors to ground, two of those resistors through a switch to ground. When all three resisitors connect to ground, we have Vehicle Ready To Charge and the big pins become *dangerous*.
All components use solid wire rather than stranded, so will fail if bent back and forth (vibration) so pot the whole thing so the wires don't bend repeatedly. Be careful not to let the runny potting epoxy into the moving parts of the switch. I learned that the hard way.
You could use 1.3k ohm resistor as depicted in most of the diagrams on the web, but 2 x 2.7K ohm in parallel is 1.35K ohm, keeps the BOM short.
Pictures follow.
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trim and then solder so the remaining two resistors are switched to ground.
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Potted and hardened.
Switch facing in, Vehicle Present.
Switch facing out, ready to go, Vehicle Ready To Charge.
When I made this batch of six, four worked right away, two had epoxy in the switch, would not operate.
I haven't had any fail at the station yet.
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Very nice. Do you still have any left from your four working models or are they all spoken for? Easier to snag one of yours than try building my own.
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I PM'd you, Wolfsbane.
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It's a shame Tesla doesn't even give that option in the installation manual. It only states that the second dip switch should ALWAYS be in the up position. I would have tried it sooner, in fact my electrician wanted to, but I was afraid of harming the wall connector by defying the instructions. So much for a company that loves to boast about its commitment to advancing sustainable transport for everyone and "open patents". 🙄
They don't describe it in the manual, but there is a hint at it in the label you see when you take off the TWC cover (attached). It says down dip is "Communication: Legacy" and contact Tesla before using.
We've been talking about these new TWCs over here (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/new-wall-connector-load-sharing-protocol.72830) and I believe they moved to a new protocol not to reduce compatibility with other EVs but to increase features when daisy chaining TWCs to share a power source. The protocol additions allow the TWC to communicate with a plugged Tesla to determine its charge state, and there is observational evidence that multiple TWCs connected together will use the charge state to give the car with the lowest charge the most power.
As people have discovered, it wasn't the new protocol that caused the DigiNow adapter to break but an enforcement of the J1772 state timing requirements with the dip switch up. I remember reading there is a safety reason for those timing requirements but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Other than the timing requirements, it looks like dip switch up remains backwards compatible with J1772.
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This thread is all about getting the DigiNow adapter to work with Tesla’s second generation EVSE correct? Because other Tesla to J1772 adapters are saying they work with Tesla’s 2nd Gen Wall Conector (destination charger).
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=50
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It's about getting Tesla stations to turn on, really. Passing the
signal through, passively, also works, if the J1772 inlet has the delay
function.
In my case, the J1772 inlet provides ready to charge immediately,
and newer tesla stations require the delay. Thus the circuit.
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It's a shame Tesla doesn't even give that option in the installation manual. It only states that the second dip switch should ALWAYS be in the up position. I would have tried it sooner, in fact my electrician wanted to, but I was afraid of harming the wall connector by defying the instructions. So much for a company that loves to boast about its commitment to advancing sustainable transport for everyone and "open patents". 🙄
They don't describe it in the manual, but there is a hint at it in the label you see when you take off the TWC cover (attached). It says down dip is "Communication: Legacy" and contact Tesla before using.
We've been talking about these new TWCs over here (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/new-wall-connector-load-sharing-protocol.72830) and I believe they moved to a new protocol not to reduce compatibility with other EVs but to increase features when daisy chaining TWCs to share a power source. The protocol additions allow the TWC to communicate with a plugged Tesla to determine its charge state, and there is observational evidence that multiple TWCs connected together will use the charge state to give the car with the lowest charge the most power.
As people have discovered, it wasn't the new protocol that caused the DigiNow adapter to break but an enforcement of the J1772 state timing requirements with the dip switch up. I remember reading there is a safety reason for those timing requirements but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Other than the timing requirements, it looks like dip switch up remains backwards compatible with J1772.
The delay also lets Tesla car update firmware from a station, I understand.
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Ok thanks for the info. I am not nearly as savvy on electrical knowledge as some of you guys but I do have a Tesla 2nd generation wall charger in my garage. I’m thinking about purchasing a 2018 SR with the Charge Tank installed. That’s why I am interested in verifying if a Tesla to J1772 adapter will work on the new Zero Charge Tank. My Tesla wall charger is on a 100 amp circuit and internal switches set for the maximum of 80 amps to the car. As I understand it, I can set that second dip switch to the down position and be Ok with charging the Zero at home using any Tesla to J1772 adapter. But if I were at another location that had a 2nd Gen Tesla wall charger and wanted to charge my Zero, (with permission of course), would I be able to with an adapter that is advertised to work with 2nd gen HPWC? Thanks for your help!
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Hi everyone,
I purchased a 2018 SR with charge tank a couple weeks ago and love it. The range is just great for me going back-and-forth to work, I have a 70 mile round-trip and end up with about 20 to 28% battery left when I get home. Aggressive riding the entire way does make a big difference. That would be the 20%.
I have a Tesla wall charger at home and there’s a destination charger and my workplace. I purchased the Tesla Tap adapter to be able to use them, (have permission at work) but neither location is working for me with the adapter. I follow the instructions which says to put the adapter on the Tesla plug and wait 30 seconds for the “handshake†and then plug the J1772 plug into the bike. It seems to start to charge, I see the blinking charge light for 10 seconds or so and then the bikes blinking charge light shuts down. A fan comes on and then quits as well. Curiously the Tesla Wall chargers light is strobing like it is charging but the bike is showing no charge going to it. Just to make sure I left the bike in that state for about an hour to see if it was actually charging when it didn’t look like it was, but it wasn’t. After an hour there was no greater charge on the bike. I haven’t switched the right-hand DIP switch down yet in my charger at home because this adapter is supposed to bypass and take care of that. I will try that this weekend. I just wondered if anybody had any clues or has experienced this themselves. Thanks for any help.
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Shocker,
Are you turning the bike ON before attaching the J1772 ?
Also, I think EC makes an adapter for Telsa ports which does work with the charger ;)
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Hey guys, I think Morgan is filling people in on the tesla plugs.
But also, here are the basics :
1) not all the vendors are building them according to the spec which is both serial and J1772.
2) JDapter is not built 100% correctly, it will work on many stations though.
*3) You can purchase the DIY kit from us for USD $100
4) we do also offer Tesla inlet as primary inlet for the chargers
5) we do also offer Tesla pigtail quick swap for J1772 inlets
6) we do also offer a J1772 gun pigtail (which can be connected with NEMA 14-50, TT-30, Tesla etc.)
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Yes I did see that you are suppose to turn the bike on before connecting the J1772. Thanks for thinking of that Burton, I didn’t see that at first. It still didn’t make a difference.
EC - seeing I already have the Zero charge tank installed from the factory, which of your solutions would work the easiest for me. I’m not really a DIY kind of guy unless it’s very simple. I’m going to see if Tesla Tap will allow me to return their adapter. Thanks!
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@shocker shoot morgan@diginow.it an email with your info, and location. Tell him I directed you to him and he can get you hooked up and ask me any questions. Talking to Morgan is the fastest way to get to me as I often do not have time to check the forums these days.