ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Doctorbass on October 06, 2017, 08:41:03 PM
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Hi guys i have found great source of power supply that can directly charge at 2000W at 116V. I MUST SHARE THAT TO YOU!
Those can be programmed like the Eltek flatpakc S 1800W and Flatpack 2 2000W but you DONT NEED TO USE 2 IN SERIE... these Eltek Valere 241115.805 can direcylt supply the FULL VOLTAGE for your Zero!
at 115$ USD+ shipping these are a very grat find for 2000W.
You put 3 of these for about 500$ and get 6000W charging and 30A level II charging!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eltek-Valere-241115-805/172862832654?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3D2194e023a7f14f2a98e467b0bbd2e3d3%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D263201541221&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253A491ba898-aaa3-11e7-b73a-74dbd180fd32%257Cparentrq%253Af21ac45115e0abc052957deafffaefee%257Ciid%253A1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eltek-Valere-241115-805/172862832654?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3D2194e023a7f14f2a98e467b0bbd2e3d3%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D263201541221&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253A491ba898-aaa3-11e7-b73a-74dbd180fd32%257Cparentrq%253Af21ac45115e0abc052957deafffaefee%257Ciid%253A1)
Doc
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Interresting !
Be careful, in your link, products are indicated as "used"
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From the spec sheet it looked to me that it is derated at input voltages below 185Vac. At 116Vac it appears to be closer to 1200W output. Am I missing something?
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From the spec sheet it looked to me that it is derated at input voltages below 185Vac. At 116Vac it appears to be closer to 1200W output. Am I missing something?
Yes those work on 120V as well as 240V.. but for quick charging you better use 240V ;)
Doc
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Interresting !
Be careful, in your link, products are indicated as "used"
You are right those are used.. but those are tough equipment ( spec mention Very high MTBF > 350 000 hours!!) and i know no one that ever had any problem with used server power supply from now.. I buy used power supply since 10 years and everyone worked fine. ;)
But thanks for reminding... I thik this is an amazing deal anyway!
Doc
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Spec say: s capable of taking both AC and DC input voltages of from 85 to 300V
that mean if you want tou can use one of tehse to charge your Zero from ANOTHER ZERO.. as these can take DC at the input as low as 85Vdc 8)
http://www.rectifier.co.za/ac-dc%20power%20supplies/eltek/pdf/2000%20HE%20WOR.pdf (http://www.rectifier.co.za/ac-dc%20power%20supplies/eltek/pdf/2000%20HE%20WOR.pdf)
Doc
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The label shows 110-125.
Does it mean it can't get below 110V output? Then it would not be very useful to charge a Zero whose battery can be as low as 90V. Unless there is a trick like CAN bus programming to some other limit voltages...
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Ha, Yes saw them a while ago on the Eltek site. I will stick with a couple of Eltek's 1800's in series due to the higher power rate vs formfactor though.
But maybe they can be programmed in the same way as a "normal" flatpack can be set to a different default Voltage level?
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Does it mean it can't get below 110V output?
No. That just means that the SETPOINT can't be lower than 110V. This would seem to be a Constant Power/Constant Voltage (CP/CV) supply, which means it'll drive the output until it reaches either the voltage setpoint or 2000 watts, whichever comes first. So for a fairly depleted Zero, at say 90V, it'll hit its power limit at 22.2 amps, and will hold that power output until it hits the voltage setpoint (at, say, 116V, at which point the charging current will have dropped to 17.2 amps). Then it will hold 116V until the battery absorbs all the coulombs it can, and is fully charged. Because the power supply behaves this way, they can also easily be paralleled: Each power supply will provide 2000 watts into the load, again until the setpoint is reached, without affecting any of the other supplies. Power supplies for rack equipment are designed this way so you can use one or as many as you need to power the equipment in the rack.
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Bwt the purpose these are made for is to chage battery ;)
These can go as low as 89.2Vdc and as high as 171.6Vdc. These are flatpack 2 so these are well documented for DIY projects and programming
I bought 3 at 90$ offer for each and it was accepted 8)
This will complete my 3x SCv2 for a total of 16kw charging power ;D
Doc
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For those that have electric car and would like to tweak the charging power.. here is a version that support from 300VDC to 400Vdc at 2500W output... be careful these voltage are lethal... in fact.. way more lethal than 116V...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eltek-241119-825-rectifier/172657054416?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3Dda559ca63f614d319d0b9a96143b644e%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D172657054416&_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eltek-241119-825-rectifier/172657054416?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3Dda559ca63f614d319d0b9a96143b644e%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D172657054416&_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060)
Doc
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Thanks for the tip, Doc. I bought one and will try it out on my FX. Will keep you all posted.
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Mine arrived yesterday. I designed a backplane PCB and ordered on OSHPark. I will share the design if it works.
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Mine arrived yesterday. I designed a backplane PCB and ordered on OSHPark. I will share the design if it works.
Awsome.! I might be interested if you build more of these pcb .
Mine should arrive soon
Doc
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Just sent in a bid and seeing if they will accept it. Will see what happens. Will be fun to see where this goes. Thanks for sharing Doc. Just found tour youtube channel. Great information.
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Recieved accepted offer and have 3 on the way also.
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Recieved accepted offer and have 3 on the way also.
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What was your offer?
Doc
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I offered 75. They came back with 90 like yours. So it looks like that is there minimum.
I ordered 3 of them. I have never used or programmed any of these so it will be a fun learning experience. With minimal investment.
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I'm curious if you can change the voltage permanentely like I did this before with the help of Remmie on other Eltek Chargers.
All you need is a Arduino with CAN bus.
Here's the Arduino sketch and info:
All credits are for Remmie, who reversed engineerded this all. I just added some text so everybody can understand and use it.
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Thanks for the Arduino sketch. I have never used one before so will need to learn for sure. I found the original post that Remmie had for the programming
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=71139&start=75
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I got my 3 units today.
Wow what a nice packing and bubble wrap protection around those!!
Will play with these over the next weeks.
I'm pretty sure these can also be permanently programmed to a new defaut voltage. I succeded to do that on my Flatpack S with a simple command line and my IXXAT CANbus interface.
Doc
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Sounds great Doc. Mine are on the way also. Just shipped yesterday from Texas. They should be here Monday. I read thru the whole post of the homemade supercharger to try to learn the programming. I found the leonardo board but from a UK online store. Does the ixxat work similar? I will have to look that one up. I since the new charge tank for the 2018 wont work on the 2017 this will be a good option for faster charging.
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Sounds great Doc. Mine are on the way also. Just shipped yesterday from Texas. They should be here Monday. I read thru the whole post of the homemade supercharger to try to learn the programming. I found the leonardo board but from a UK online store. Does the ixxat work similar? I will have to look that one up. I since the new charge tank for the 2018 wont work on the 2017 this will be a good option for faster charging.
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yes the IXXAt is one of the top CAN programmer, It work for nearly everything.
Doc
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Thank you Doc. I ended up ordering the Leonardo Can Bus from Hobbytronics. This is all new to me so spending the $200 on the IXXT was a bit much for now. Still reading thru the Endless Sphere write up on the programming and trying to digest. I may have some questions for Doc and wijnand71 if that is ok when it gets time to see if I can set the voltage? Keep us update Doc if you get to work on yours with the programing and how it went.
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Haha, yes the Hobbytronics CAN interface is really cheap and works also great. Proffesional Interfaces are very expensive.
There's a how-to included in the Sketch. If you open the sketch with the Arduino program you will see the instructions on top of the file. You need to fill in the serial number and the desired voltage. I copy below the instructions wich is in the file:
// Eltek Flatpack Permanent Voltage changer, Code By RHO
// Used Arduino board is a Leonardo CANbus Board, abtainable at http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk
// The procedure for permanent default voltage change is :
// You have to have a connection to the CAN-bus (obviously)
// if the serial number of your Flatpack is 123456789012
// Change line 46 with the serial nr in the code as below
// send 0x05004804 0x12 0x34 0x56 0x78 0x90 0x12 0x00 0x00 (to log in to the rectifier)
// send 0x05009C02 0x2B 0x15 0x00 0x80 0x16 (to set the permanent default voltage)
// upload code to Arduino
// disconnect Arduino from usb so it powers down
// First power on the Flatpack
// Then power on Arduino via usb
// After about 10 seconds or so the output voltage should change to the new default voltage.
// Now wait 30 seconds and disconnect the power to the rectifier.
// When you start up again the voltage will default to (in this sketch ) 57.5 Volt. The default voltage is determined by the last 2 bytes of the second command.
// Multiply your desired voltage with 100 (57.50 => 5750).
// Convert this number to HEX values (5700 => 0x1680). switch the two bytes (0x1680 => 0x80 0x16) and you have your code for setting the voltage
// NOTE: Some Flatpacks needs to run this procedure several times to change the Voltage.
// Sometimes the Flatpack shows an yellow led, but no Voltage change. Just repeat the procedure until it changes the voltage.
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Thank you wijnand71. I downloaded the Arduino software on my computer and was able to see the sketch like you posted. I just need to figure out which connections on the Leonardo hook up to the CANL and CANH connections when I get the equipment this week.
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Oh, but thats really straight forward. Its all printed on the pcb.
Included are some screw terminals to connect/disconnect wires easy.
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Great information. The chargers and the board should be here tomorrow. Not sure when I will get a chance to play with everything. I may bring the chargers and board to work to work on at lunch. We have tons of 240V to plug into at work. Thanks for the reply.
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I was googling where to buy Hobbytronics Leonardo Canbus in USA, found this... is it the right thing?
http://smile.amazon.com/DFROBOT-DFRobot-CAN-BUS-Shield-V2-0/dp/B01GH0WTYQ/
Seems not...
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Not the same, if it says shield, it is an add on board for an existing arduino, this will allow and arduino to use can bus.
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Ah, so you really *are* talking about the Arduino Leonardo, the ARM-based Arduino with the one half of the Canbus already onboard (external transceiver required)?
But no, this http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/leonardo-canbus doesn't show an arduino leonardo. Very confusing.
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OK, so I was confusing the official Arduinos
The official Arduino Leonardo doesn't have CANBUS, and is
https://store.arduino.cc/usa/arduino-leonardo-with-headers
The official Arduino Due is the ARM-based one with two sets of CANBUS RX and TX lines
http://copperhilltech.com/blog/arduino-due-can-bus-controller-area-network-interfaces/
Well, I ordered the hobbytronics one (in spite of trademark abuse concerns), shipping to USA was not prohibitive after all.
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Hello togo. The only place I found was hobbytronics site. I ordered it an the shipping was not much to Connecticut. I thing 7-8. I had it shipped priority which was a little more and I got it today with the Elteks. Time to solder the can bus board together and see how things go. Winjnand71 posted great info above to get started with.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171023/9bb8487130105e7685c9ccf2d2843fa5.jpg)
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@Togo
So far the Hobbytronics board is the only one known with integrated CAN. Otherwise you have to buy those shields (pretty big) or separate CAN chips, which then are connected to Arduino with a serial connection, but those CAN chips sometimes don't have libraries and therefore are not easy to use. Given the price, the Hobbytronics board is a very good solution.
@originalspacerob
Actually, because the flatpacks are not wired in series anymore (like the 48V units used before), you can connect all the Flatpacks to the CAN simultaneously and control their voltages and currents.
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The Teensy 3.5/3.6 have CANbus built-in but you need to add transceiver IC(s).
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Ditto Arduino Due
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We should document this on the wiki under the DIY charging section.
Do these have an IP rating?
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Looks like this is the data sheet:
http://www.rectifier.co.za/ac-dc%20power%20supplies/eltek/pdf/2000%20HE%20WOR.pdf
I do see:
Marine
Temperature Cl. B
Humidity Cl. B
Vibration Cl. A
EMC Cl. B
Environment
1 Class 1.2
ETSI EN 300 019-2-2 Class 2.3
ETSI EN 300 019-2-3 Class 3.2
ETSI EN 300 132-2
RoHS compliant
I don't see something listed as IPxx
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I got my backplane PCBs today, and they were good enough to plug in and power up the rectifier. The holes for negative output and ground were a bit close to the housing, so I decided to move them out a bit. I also added a second set of holes for a cable going on to the onboard charger.
I am sharing the PCBs on OSHPark if anyone is interested. Please understand that these have been minimally tested, and so use them at your own risk. OSHPark charges $13.65 for 3 copies of the board. Here is the link:
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/lsGxQciq (https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/lsGxQciq)
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looks good Will. Nice job and thank you for sharing. looks like your voltage settings are similar to mine on my Rectifiers. Mine were outputting 124VDC. They didn't haev the 60 second delay on startup however. They turned on in about 3 seconds and started putting out voltage.
I have been having trouble connecting to my Leonardo board. I'm using the Arduino IDE software and it can detect the board on the COM port for both my Macbook and my Windows laptop. I tried both since reading some people have had the same issue with a Mac. When I paste the code in and check for errors it has a compiling issue that comes up on the bottom of the sketch program. I was just uploading the code as it was to make sure the board would take it. I didn't input my serial number and everything else and actually hook it up to the Rectifier. I was going to so that once I knew the board was communicating and loading. Any thoughts? Has anyone else seen this when trying? I did see that there were issues with older sketches so I tried both the one posted in this thread and the one from endless sphere.
I'm attaching a screen shot of what the error looks like.
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..Any thoughts? Has anyone else seen this when trying?...
Does it compile a simple "hello world" example sketch?
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I will have to try that tonight and report back.
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Could you please post screenshots of more detailed error messages? A compiling error can have approx. 1000 reasons. I guess you didn't install all necessary libraries. Check "Sketch - Libraries - Manage Libraries" and install all missing ones like CAN and so on.
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I got the board to communicate and compile and upload the sketch. Sorry about not more screen shots. I will be sure to include them next time. Lenny, thank you for mentioning the Libraries. I saw that under sketches but didn't know what they did. Once you mentioned the Can library I looked it up and found the libraries on the Hobbytronics site. Thank you so much. This was my first time ever doing this so thanks for steering me in the right direction.
Installing the Can Bus libraries fixed my problem with the compiling. When I went back to the Hobbytronics site they mentioned below to download and install the can bus library from github. Now the IDE program can read the CAN code. Now I will try and add my serial number and such and see if I can actually get it to work and reprogram the rectifier. We will see how it goes from here.
This is the file library they say to install with the Leonardo CAN BUS from Hobbytronics
https://github.com/reeedstudio/CAN_BUS_Shield
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I followed Remmie's instructions, and it worked like a charm. I did notice that the output voltage is a few tenths of a volt higher than the programmed voltage, so I would recommend measuring and adjusting accordingly. Still, much better than 1% accurate.
I also printed out a simple cover to hold the cables and minimize chances of contacting live conductors.
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Put in an order for the J1772 inlet and Anderson connector, so looking forward to the complete system. I am wishing now I had ordered a second Eltek unit, because as nice as 2kW will be, 4kW would be better...
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Post your 3-D printable cover, Will?
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I'm getting some 10 & 12 AWG cable on my way home today, and I want to make sure it all fits inside that cover before I post it. I am also thinking of adding some tabs to help hold it on to the power supply case.
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Hello Everyone,
I have been trying to set my voltage between yesterday and today and have not been having much luck. I can load the sketch onto the Leonardo and it will send to the Rectifier but I keep getting the yellow light. I have done it about 40 times and the same results. I have the CanH and CanL going to the right place. If I don't I do not get a response. I tested the board with a BLINK sketch and that works ok so I know the board is working. For the Can connections I used the attached picture for reference for connection locations on the rectifier.
I wait until the rectifier powers up and then I plug in the Leonardo. I have the shorting plug on the board so that it uses the terminating resistors. I tried two of my three rectifiers and all do the same thing. I am attaching the sketch that I used which is the sketch that was posted on this thread. I changed the serial number and set the voltage to 114 volts (114x100) for setting the voltage. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I am missing something just can't put my finger on it.
Serial Number:112071117284
Voltage Set: 114V 114x100= 11400 Hex: 2C88 (reversed hex to add to sketch 882C
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171031/f22c244fa685db0be24e87c812f2bede.jpg)
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A couple of things stand out:
The voltage setting message ID in Remmie's post was 0x05009C00, not the 0x05009C02 you have.
I waited 1 second between logging in and sending the voltage set. You also have to make sure to wait 30 seconds after the voltage setting before powering off the rectifier.
Can you read any CAN frames coming over from the rectifier?
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Thank you for taking a look willbrunner. I tried the ID both ways and neither worked. The 0x05009C02 will give me a yellow light after 10 seconds and 0x05009C00 will give me no yellow light and no voltage change after even 1 minute.
I have not tried reading any CAN frames as of yet.
Could my CS pin settings be wrong? I noticed that when remmie posted the sketch he used CS pin 10. But on this post the sketch attachment shows pin 17. That is the pin I have been using. I have my board wired with the screw terminals and not the pins. I'm also using the leonardo CANBUS from hobbytronics.
Updating the picture so show better detail how the Leonardo was hooked up during programming. The picture does not show the power and meter hooked up yet. But they are to test while programming.
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Just chipping in, having programmed two 1800W units before ;)
First thing I notice is the wire on the 0v (ground)... CAN is a differential signal so you shouldn't connect ground. Some folks tinkering with the 1800W Eltek's blew up their Leonardo's by connecting the ground.
Second, did you make sure the terminating resistor is there? If it isn't, the bus is unbalanced and 'the bits fall out of the cable' ;)
Third, I also had to modify the sketches to make sure the right pins were used. Since it's longer than 3 weeks ago I'd have to scavenge my archives for what i've changed exactly but I remember pin assignment...
Good luck programming the unit(s)!
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Thank you Skidz,
I updated my picture on my previous post. I never used the ground on the CAN at all. Just the CAN H and CAN L. That picture was confusing with the wires laying underneath. I think I may have a pin issue also. Not sure if anyone else used the Db9 connection or if they used screw type connections like me. Depending on which sketch you look at one shows use CS pin 10 and the other CS pin 17.
I looked at the Hobbytronics CAN sketches and they appear to use CS pin 17 for output.
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Yeah, the hobbytronics schematic shows ~CS connected to digital pin 17. http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/datasheets/ht/leonardo-can-bus-100.pdf (http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/datasheets/ht/leonardo-can-bus-100.pdf)
I notice on the standard Arduino Leonardo, there is no digital pin 17- that pin is the RX LED. Are you using a version of Arduino that lets you control that pin?
Check avr/variants/leonardo/pins_arduino.h line 198 and make sure it says // SS D17 PB0 RXLED,SS/PCINT0
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Yes. I am actually using the Leonardo CANBUS from Hobbytronics. That one appears to use pin 17 like the sketch that was posted. I tried adjusting the voltage again today at lunch at work and no luck. Used the same sketch as I posted above. There were a few things I changed. I changed the delay time from (100) to (1000) so it would change the lead in to 1 second. That didn't work. I also changed the 0x05009C02 to 0x05009C00 and had no luck. The board is definitely communicating with the rectifier because I get the yellow light like they said could happen and I may have to load a it a few times. I loaded the base sketch in abut 30 times and no luck. Waited like instructed. I wonder if maybe my voltage is wrong, I did multiply it by 100 and then converted to hex, and then proceeded to flip the hex number like instructed. I'll try again tomorrow. I left everything at work.
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I finally got it figured out. I was able to change the voltage as needed to 115 volts. All my flatpack are high by about .5 volts compared to what I set but hold steady. So I set the set point to 114.5 and it sits right at 114.9-115. I will have to check once I put a load on them. The problem was not the pin anymore. It is Pin 17 on the Hobbytronics Leonardo CANBUS for the proper CS pin. The problem was that the Sketch had "unsigned char setdefaultvolt[5] = {0x29, 0x15, 0x00, 0xBA, 0x2C};" the 0x29 was 0x2B in the sketch that was shared. I read some of the older posts on endless sphere comparing sketches and besides the CS pin for some other boards the 0x2B I had on my sketch was supposed to be 0X29. After that change the voltage changed to what I wanted. I was even able to play around and set the voltage to 104VDC even though they say it can only go to 110. I didn't try any lower.
What I also found is that you don't have to turn the rectifier on and off each time. Once it is running, you can make a change on the sketch, upload it and the rectifier will change in 30 seconds. The yellow light comes on no matter what. Once it comes on about 2 seconds after the voltage changes. The yellow light will stay on forever until the rectifier is powered off and back on. The next time the rectifier starts the yellow light will not be on and the voltage will be permanent like others have found. So in my case the yellow light did not show and error, only that the sketch was finished sending and it showed the rectifier received it.
Thank you to everyone that replied and helped work on this. Very much appreciated.
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Good to see you got it figured out. my 2 arrived today, purchased the hobbytronics arduino leonardo now i just need get everything else for these. Got them for my 17 FXS 6.5 non modular
wanted 3 but read somewhere in 1 of the several eltek flatpack threads 3 plus the onboard might be to much for the FXS 6.5 so i have 2.
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Great news. I read the same thing when I was reading on the old threads. I am the same as you and need to get the other items also to hook everything up to the bike.
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Good to see you got it figured out. my 2 arrived today, purchased the hobbytronics arduino leonardo now i just need get everything else for these. Got them for my 17 FXS 6.5 non modular
wanted 3 but read somewhere in 1 of the several eltek flatpack threads 3 plus the onboard might be to much for the FXS 6.5 so i have 2.
Your charging current limit will be around 52 A. If I looked at the right spec sheet, each unit is limited to 16.8 A of current (16.8 A * 120VDC nominal voltage = 2016W). 3*16.8 A equals 50.4 A, so it should fit perfectly using three units without onboard. At voltages below 120V the units are current limited to 16.8A, so the output power will be lower than 2000W.
Just give it a try, if you actually surpass the limit the red triangle will start flashing and the contactor will open a few seconds later. However, don't do that too often, because the contactor will wear.
If it turns out to be too much, which I don't believe, you could still regulate one unit to lower current using the hobbytronics board.
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Good to see you got it figured out. my 2 arrived today, purchased the hobbytronics arduino leonardo now i just need get everything else for these. Got them for my 17 FXS 6.5 non modular
wanted 3 but read somewhere in 1 of the several eltek flatpack threads 3 plus the onboard might be to much for the FXS 6.5 so i have 2.
Your charging current limit will be around 52 A. If I looked at the right spec sheet, each unit is limited to 16.8 A of current (16.8 A * 120VDC nominal voltage = 2016W). 3*16.8 A equals 50.4 A, so it should fit perfectly using three units without onboard. At voltages below 120V the units are current limited to 16.8A, so the output power will be lower than 2000W.
Just give it a try, if you actually surpass the limit the red triangle will start flashing and the contactor will open a few seconds later. However, don't do that too often, because the contactor will wear.
If it turns out to be too much, which I don't believe, you could still regulate one unit to lower current using the hobbytronics board.
You are totally right!.. thanks for adding these explanations. That is saving some work from me ;)
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Forgot to mention that it's probably a good idea to limit one unit to 10A and use the onboard for the rest instead, so you won't need any further signaling on the aux port because the onboard triggers the contactor.
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Thanks I just have 2 of these flatpack2 2000, because they are long and a bit heavy I plan to just use them at home using 240v.
most of the rides with my FXS use only down to 60% soc and take 3-4 hrs to get back to 100%. But all the rides I would rather do get down around
15-25% soc and take 8+ hrs to get back to 100% and limit me to 1 ride a day. And thats ok because I was in a accident severeal years ago and
cant ride long anymore this is why I got the FXS with the smaller battery and lower price. but it will be nice to be able to quickly charge up
and go riding again if I wanted to.
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I finally did some testing tonight. Made some temporary plugs using spade female terminals and ran 240 from my air compressor to power the charger. I was at 70% and the onboard charger said 3:20 for charge time. Plugged in one Eltek and its down to 53 minutes. I was also running the factory charger for total of 3.0-3.3kW. I have some screen shots below while charging to show the readouts.
Based on my app I am at about 90% charge at 113 volts and 92-100% at 114 volts. During the balancing cycle the voltage starts at 114 and finishes at 116 volts once done balancing. So i will be setting the chargers to 113 volts to get me to 90-92% before tapering down and letting the onboard finish. Because my charger was set to 115 volts I disconnected it. So I will have a better understanding on how it reduces wattage with the setting at 113 volts. It was still putting out 600 or so watts at 114 volts to finish the charge to 115 volts. I will see how the 113 voltage setting works after my next ride and recharge.
Need to order correct plugs, larger silicone cable and other items before I run three and pull more amps. I have 60 amp 240 drops at work I will try those on before I test a EV station. Pretty impressive. Exciting for the first time doing this. Below is a picture of my test with my cheap harbor freight meter. Its off about one volt from some of my good meters.
Any ideas on how to get the bike to charge without the onboard charger or without keeping the key on? From some reading I have done it looks like the center pins on the Anderson are looking for voltage input to activate the contactor?
I found also that if you have the aux. charger on only and you try to power the bike on it wont go and it makes a beeping noise about every three seconds and the contactor wont close. Same happens if you try to plug in the onboard with the aux charger plugged in. Must be a safety to make sure the contactor is closed before applying voltage. If it senses voltage it wont close the contactor.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/4235cdf440b026d9abf692ba4e74569c.jpg)
I took this screen shot while running.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/b0a2675e15f81956890bb5edd2389c6e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/ea745e50e1e85576f5f65a7f4a86481b.jpg)
This screen shot was at 100% but balancing on the factory charger only.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/fab3d93b01620083406881b5d42921d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/0d62e0a7a0515a16649411996a16a70c.jpg)
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If it helps, I've been charging my FX with only the auxiliary Quiq charger. Turn key on, plug charger into bike, plug charger into wall, when charger indicates charging and charge time shows on dash (can take a few seconds), turn off key and charging continues. I can plug in first then key on, as long as I do it quickly enough.
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Currently just plugging into the +\- into the auxillary after turning on the key it will charge but I wont see the charge indicator. I can however see it charging on the app. Does your quiq charger use the center pins to trigger the charge?
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Quiq charger has a 10k pullup to 5V on the center pin. That won't start charging without the key or onboard to begin, but it will continue charging and indicating after key off and onboard off.
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Currently just plugging into the +\- into the auxillary after turning on the key it will charge but I wont see the charge indicator. I can however see it charging on the app. Does your quiq charger use the center pins to trigger the charge?
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One of the male center pins is present, maybe the females.
Just found this: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6266.0
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Quiq charger has a 10k pullup to 5V on the center pin. That won't start charging without the key or onboard to begin, but it will continue charging and indicating after key off and onboard off.
Didn't know that Zero is doing it this way, thanks for the hint. EVTricity is doing the same, seems to work well. Another solution I already tried successfully: a USB powerbank with a USB cable with +/- wired out. Connect powerbank- to battery- and powerbank+ to the aux pin. By connecting and disconnecting the USB cable while the bike is keyed on you can enable and disable charging mode. Once enabled you can turn the key off.
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Lenny. Did you connect this thru the pin on the Aux port? I see there are two pins. Which one would be considered the one to use for +. I looked at the 2013 schematic on the unofficial manual and it shows the aux pins going the BMS. From my reading the BMS is what turns on the factory charger and activated the contactor.
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Those two pins go only to the MBB on my '16 FX. They are not found on the pack connectors, so they're not connected to either BMS. But they do go to pins 38 and 40 of the MBB as Burton's 2013 wiring shows, but directly not through BMS. As shown on the Y cable schematic they are separate enable lines for two chargers. Adding a 10k 5v pullup to either pin will keep the contactor closed, but external charging must always be started by key on or onboard. https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Charger_Y-Cable
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Now I understand. That makes sense now. When I read the section about the Y connector that you posted i though that the circuit needed to complete with both pins. But that is how it knows two chargers are hooked up on the Y. I was trying to make sense of the pins but your explanation did it. Ill have to give it a shot. Keeping the bike in charge mode once initiated is what I am looking to do so the key can be taken out. Thank you for the clarification.
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Trikester's enable is one possible way http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4588.msg30634#msg30634 I've used three aaa battery's, a 10k resistor and a switch. I have that set up for closing pack contactors off the bike https://zeromanual.com/index.php/File:Pack_discharge_adaptor.png
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Got a few more things in the mail today decided to get my 2 chargers out and start tinkering with them. I'm still waiting on a wire crimper and I did get my voltage set on both supplies to 112. It's just a starting point, I can always adjust it as needed. Has anyone else gotten any further with their charging setups we need some pictures in here.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/f296f208a3bd6f9abda628e4394be2b9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/eecfbc638ed22cb582cb6230bf95f2c8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/a963ecdf7d2cd8bfd1ca2fec91c6c106.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/6f40f68cb073be18b1a9fc2880ea69de.jpg)
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A few of the items I got. some Turnigy 10 AWG for the 240v input and some 8 AWG silicone wire for output to the Anderson SBS75x and some OshPark PCB connectors. Still working out how i'm
going to get that wire on these pcb's. On these pcb's the + and - are reversed and there is a 4th solder pad at the top, I just ignore these and make the correct connection for this charger. These
Pcb's have Oshpark's double amount of copper 70um instead of the 35um.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/efe96cf9caf3569086640ae26fbcfb09.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/de4695e43b5ddf4126528601726a9f95.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/79460be548e556303f97887a935ba99f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/be1d46912a1c5895d09cb0311d503b89.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/b79880490f7b49ecf3c5acd9ddabbe1a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/4d299f0288e38abb17167d7d2eb12aa9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/69732fbe455b95af2fbdf96e1a47c411.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/c0eed472f5f271660524a6cf218fd620.jpg)
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Keith, I seem to recall the MBB being 3V logic, does it work to use 2 AA or AAA batteries? (Perhaps with smaller resistor to get same current.)
ZeroCool, thanks for the update and the pics. Hope it works well for you!
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Yes, 3V works fine, just tried it. I have seen that if the SOC is not high, the contactor will drop out if there is no current detected. The BMS thinks there might be a problem with the current sensor so it opens the contactor and calibrates it, but doesn't reclose it. Charge or discharge seems to work but not just check pack voltage with no current unless fully charged.
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Hello everyone
I come back to you originalspacerob about the waterproof protection of power supplies.
I made a small home installation (craft) to mount that we can ride in the rain with non waterproof food (and be able to charge in the rain)
laurent
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Very nice cover solution. Looks like it works well. Thanks also Zerocool for the update on your project. Great progress. It looks like Harbor freight multimeters are a necessity with the home built chargers, lol. They work good enough which is great. Cant beat them with a free coupon and put them everywhere one might be needed.
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yep it's not bad for being free it's a little off but every voltmeter I have gives a different reading. if I put 113 in the sketch I get 114 from the voltmeter so what ever I want my flatpack to be at I just have to make sure I enter something a volt lower in the sketch :)
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>... It looks like Harbor freight multimeters are a necessity with the home built chargers, lol. ...
I like these, they fit in a shirt pocket, and seem to give more consistent results:
http://halted.com/commerce/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=20985&czuid=1512087071111
They also measure capacitance, and they turn themselves off, both good features.
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Gave up on the Osh Park PCB, even with 2oz copper just not enuff so I made my own. It's a work in progress still but will take 6-14 AWG wire, I can get 2 8 AWG onto 1 lug for connecting the flatpacks but it's difficult. They are panduit cd35-36sl-qy, 2 hole mechanical lugs 600v 50 amps. mounted to 1/8 thick FR4 unclad PCB material. The middle lug has to have some thin plastic or something on top between the ground and can connections I'm still working that out. Not sure if it's needed but I have seen schottky diodes mentioned in several of the diy flatpack charger threads so thought it would not hurt to add some so i'm putting 1 across the plus & minus outputs on both of the connectors I made. And the 10 ton hydraulic crimper I used for my Anderson SBS75X connector. Got it on ebay, some come with 8 set's or 9 set's of dies this 1 has 9 set's and includes the 8 AWG die. The #10 die was used on the black 8 AWG and left nice flat crimp the #8 die was used on the red 8 AWG and left a curved crimp. Also used 10 AWG Turnigy silicone wire with Anderson pp45 connectors for input and Acer superworm 8 AWG silicone wire for the outputs. For extra safety i'm probably going to put something between each of the lugs maybe a small nylon bolt so they can't touch if they did happen to move a little, also have some 3 1/2 inch heatshrink I could cover the hole thing with.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171227/993cac0594648177ab3612919e52224d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171227/b34141bb81dd0c731518b46e703d7740.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171227/e447549a4b4a3447a8067faa42af43ce.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171227/74a6eb2053c6deede7cc8d09553898d9.jpg)
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Hi ZEROCOOL,
Just curious why the 2oz copper wasn't sufficient. Are you running the output from multiple power supplies through the PCB?
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Hi will, having the pcb made with 2oz copper makes the thickness of the pcb half thickness of 1oz. The pcb fits very loosely and having bad contact.
Then I was having trouble getting 8 awg wire on it, the 2oz copper might have been ok but it's just foil and very very thin. I had planned to add more copper to
them either soldier some copper bar or copper wire directly to them thats why 1 photo a page back shows were I removed material to expose the full length of the
copper.
I have only 2 of these flatpack chargers, each is connected it's own separate power input 240v with nothing else on those circuits.
The outputs to the motorcycles battery are connected together at the 2 pcb's I made, positive to positive and negative to negative, I still have not tried
charging with them connected together yet, been sick and to cold.
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Very nice work on your connections and wiring. Should hold up very nice and give you the ability to unplug if needed.
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thanks, I have revised the connector a little more it now has m5 nylon bolts cut to just short little stubbs between each copper lug so no chance of them moving and the whole thing will be protected with some 3" heatshrink when done, might even have the whole setup in a nice really well ventilated box of some sort. I did get 2 8 AWG wires on 1 lug just had to keep installing 1 wire at a time and tighten the screw smashing the wire until both wires would fit, smash cram smash cram smash cram. i'll get a pic of that loaded up soon i'm still sick and I am intalling a 240v breaker sub panel with 3 double 15 amp breakers. 1 to each flatpack and 1 for the on board charger got a Tripp-Lite C-13 to 5-15p 14 AWG 15A going to cut the 5-15p and hook up to my sup panel .
COLD 28 F want to RIDE it my birthday and I'm sick
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Hi There,
This thread is rather old but I wanted to share my experience using two of these units that Rob graciously gave to me for my electric motorcycle project/build.
I am using them stacked in parallel inside of a 3D printed Nylon back housing (nylon for temperature resistance) with a 10 gauge 3wire inlet cable and 8 gauge output DC wires. The unit is controlled with a Leonardo Canbus using modified code from Remmie over on Endlessphere. Previously I was using a PLA version of the housing but the PCB shelves warped a little due to overheating.
When trying to control the amperage limit of both chargers at once I ran into trouble with what I think is a communication error. One unit would start to current limit and the other would go full tilt, then they would swap. So instead I only have CAN into the bottom unit and I let the top one go full tilt. Then I set the default voltage of the bottom unit to well below pack voltage at max discharge so that if the charger is plugged in without CAN it only draws 9 amps (the top unit's max). Then I use the arduino to up the voltage of the bottom unit to full pack voltage and have it current limit to 4 amps for a total of 13 amps DC side which should be under 15 amps AC on a 110V circuit at 94% efficiency.
On 240 it will push 32 to 33 amps quite nicely. Overall I am extremely happy with the performance of these units for next to nothing.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RvtIkaAF0Bre5uM30JgSUOu07_9o8WnY_kH42z0fCVFif1NcJXmmqN7DsTOQH7uEf9lEO0acmKZZyN1UN2Rm2vi3veT9S1wN_saJ9G0Yks-z8N0QMeZp6ncPOzkE8dP6HHK6E-HZEA=w600)
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Haha, that's not a Zero 2013+, what's going on in that picture?
Do you have a Zero drivetrain in there, Sevcon, Z-Force motor, etc?