ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ChainGun on October 21, 2017, 12:56:46 AM
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My Zero S 2015 battery dropped to 60% capacity in September and is now in a state where I can't reliably commute with he bike. The dealer took the bike, contacted Zero and after some negotiations, Zero agreed to ship me a new battery (which will arrive in 8-10 weeks). Dealer says he has a slightly used battery (around 1000 KM) for me to use but says he won't change twice, i.e, he won't install the used battery now and then replace it with the new batter Zero sent when it arrives. From the dealer's point of view, I have two options:
1. Take the slightly used battery
2. Wait 8-10 weeks for a new battery
What are my rights here? Is the dealer/Zero obliged to provide me a new battery if my old one died under warranty? If he doesn't have a new battery, is he obliged to give me a replacement bike? I've never been in a similar situation, so I'm a bit at a loss here...
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What would the warranty be with the slightly used battery vs. the new battery from Zero? What is the state of the used battery? Was it used for racing? I don't read anything in my 2016 manual that suggests they have to provide a "new" battery. They promise a battery that will have no more than 20% degradation during five years or 100,000 miles. If the coverage for the new and used battery are the same, and the battery wasn't abused, I'd lean toward taking the used battery. 1000 km isn't that much.
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Thanks, your advise makes sense. The used battery probably wasn't used for racing, just commute.
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Is the used battery a ZF13? The new battery from Zero should be a ZF13 even though 2015 Zero S comes with ZF12.5.
I would wait for new battery.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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My original is 9.4, the (used) replacement is 9.8. I don't know what's the capacity of the one Zero is sending but I agree, if ZF13 (or even ZF12.5) I'd rather wait a few weeks.
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ChainGun,
I'd be interested to hear your story of how the battery issue progressed. Does your SOC indicate 60%, or does it indicate 100%, but you noticed decrease in range? Did this happen fairly abruptly, or was it a slow degradation? Did they give you any clues about how they analyzed the battery? I've read that they determine loss of capacity by analyzing battery logs. Since we have the ability to look at the logs ourselves, I'm curious to know what they look at.
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My original is 9.4, the (used) replacement is 9.8. I don't know what's the capacity of the one Zero is sending but I agree, if ZF13 (or even ZF12.5) I'd rather wait a few weeks.
That suggests to me that your 3-brick pack basically lost the use of a brick.
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ChainGun,
I'd be interested to hear your story of how the battery issue progressed. Does your SOC indicate 60%, or does it indicate 100%, but you noticed decrease in range? Did this happen fairly abruptly, or was it a slow degradation? Did they give you any clues about how they analyzed the battery? I've read that they determine loss of capacity by analyzing battery logs. Since we have the ability to look at the logs ourselves, I'm curious to know what they look at.
Interesting questions. I am curious to know the answers as well
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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> What are my rights here?
I am not a lawyer
> Is the dealer/Zero obliged to provide me a new battery if my old one died under warranty?
They have already agreed to do so, right?
I'd wait for the new battery, not take the used one. Even if it wasn't used for racing it may have sat at low charge state for a long time; for lithium batteries, that's a DONT DO THAT.
Given Zero doesn't generally stock old batteries, you'll probably get a battery upgrade, like the DS 2013 factory recall people did.
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I'd also like to know the answers to domingo3's questions.
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While I would try to hurry up Zero in anyway possible, I would take the new from zero battery long before accepting some used battery.
This smells downright scammy as the dealer probably has no use for that battery anyway... and will get a new one for free.
You may be able to get zero to approve their battery swap, to use for a temp measure, and they pay labor twice.. but at no point would I pay out of pocket or accept anything but a new battery as a permanent solution
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Check your state's lemon laws. You may be entitled to a full refund if it spends over a month or two off the road.
My Zero S 2015 battery dropped to 60% capacity in September and is now in a state where I can't reliably commute with he bike. The dealer took the bike, contacted Zero and after some negotiations, Zero agreed to ship me a new battery (which will arrive in 8-10 weeks). Dealer says he has a slightly used battery (around 1000 KM) for me to use but says he won't change twice, i.e, he won't install the used battery now and then replace it with the new batter Zero sent when it arrives. From the dealer's point of view, I have two options:
1. Take the slightly used battery
2. Wait 8-10 weeks for a new battery
What are my rights here? Is the dealer/Zero obliged to provide me a new battery if my old one died under warranty? If he doesn't have a new battery, is he obliged to give me a replacement bike? I've never been in a similar situation, so I'm a bit at a loss here...
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ChainGun,
I'd be interested to hear your story of how the battery issue progressed. Does your SOC indicate 60%, or does it indicate 100%, but you noticed decrease in range? Did this happen fairly abruptly, or was it a slow degradation? Did they give you any clues about how they analyzed the battery? I've read that they determine loss of capacity by analyzing battery logs. Since we have the ability to look at the logs ourselves, I'm curious to know what they look at.
1. Last week I got a replacement battery. Dealer said it's used but less than 1000 KM and it's 9.8, better than my old 9.4. Performance wise, I'm happy. Not sure I made the best decision (I could have waited for the new battery) but I was sick of riding the train to work and back.
2. The degradation took a few weeks. The battery indicated 100% but I was starting to get speed-capped after less than 80KM (normally the range is 120 KM). Had some real frightening rides where I keep decelerating on a highway. On the day I returned the bike to the dealer, battery said 49% remaining on a ride which normally left ~70% available. Since I live on a hill, 49% at work means I can't make the ride home.
3. I sent them logs but Zero don't share the results or findings with you, only with the dealership.
All in all, I'm satisfied. I'd be happy to answer additional questions.
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You can post logs here, people have worked out how to decode most information.
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3. I sent them logs but Zero don't share the results or findings with you, only with the dealership.
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And sometimes they don't even share results with the dealership when the dealership tech asks a question... "You do not need to know this."
Is this due to being closely held with intellectual property in a small company, or some other factor like being too busy / unwilling to redirect limited resources?
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> 2. The degradation took a few weeks. The battery indicated 100% but I was starting to get speed-capped after less than 80KM (normally the range is 120 KM). Had some real frightening rides where I keep decelerating on a highway. On the day I returned the bike to the dealer, battery said 49% remaining on a ride which normally left ~70% available. Since I live on a hill, 49% at work means I can't make the ride home.
Wow, that sounds scary. Yes, i think BTR is right, that one of the three bricks went offline, and these incidents were probably related to it or the connection to it failing. The logs of that time would probably say more, might even be able to narrow it down. (At a guess, one might see communication errors or sudden connect/disconnects or even voltage mismatches, surges of power as bricks that were discharging might have had intermittent contact with bricks that hadn't been, maybe a blown fuse.)
> All in all, I'm satisfied. I'd be happy to answer additional questions.
Thanks for the report.
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PS: I suggest marking this thread [SOLVED]