ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on January 18, 2018, 09:18:18 PM
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I don't think this has been discussed before, but it would be interesting and informative if we could develop some experience with what various Zero models and years are actually worth and have been sold for, both as private sales and as trade-ins. Right now I have no idea what a used Zero could be sold for - other than I fear it would not be all that much, compared with the initial cost. I suppose it would have a lot to do with the location of the market and the time of year, as well as local gas prices. But any information would be worthwhile to have. I might add that I have never seen a used Zero being offered for sale in the local dealer's showroom over the past 6 years that I have been buying them. I have said before that my guess is that electric motorcycles loose about 50% of their value per year, but I do know that the California DMV, which charges yearly licensing fees based upon the vehicle's value, seems to think that the value of every motor vehicle drops only 10% each year. ::)
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I think the BIG problem is that not only do you have depreciation, but the cost of production is coming down, so future models are cheaper to build and are being sold for less than you bought a previous year model.
So you're fighting depreciation and manufacturers lowering their prices. It really hurts the early adopters.
Why would someone buy a 2 year old Zero for $X when he can buy a new one for another $1k?
There's no stability in what Zero, Brammo, etc are charging for their bikes over the last few years.
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I have been looking for a few months now. If there are any that are offered for anywhere near 50% after a year I sure can't find them. I believe it would be an ideal bike for me (20 mile commute each day to work). I see 2014 bikes for around 7,000 but they are one year from Battery warranty being gone. 2016's are at least 10,000. I would prefer buying used but at this point I am resigned to buying new with warranty over buying someone's used demo that had the warranty begin a year before they even bought it.
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If there is any one issue I have with Zero, it's that damned warranty policy of theirs. Every other manufacturer warranty I've ever dealt with began with the day the vehicle was registered by the owner. That means, if you bought a year old demonstrator, it was still warranteed from the day YOU bought it as the first owner as a new bike.
Zero's warranty begins the day the bike leaves the factory, so if your bike was sitting on the sales floor, you lost that warranty time and you only have what is left from the day the bike shipped. I really don't understand how they get away with that.
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I have been looking for a few months now. If there are any that are offered for anywhere near 50% after a year I sure can't find them. I believe it would be an ideal bike for me (20 mile commute each day to work). I see 2014 bikes for around 7,000 but they are one year from Battery warranty being gone. 2016's are at least 10,000. I would prefer buying used but at this point I am resigned to buying new with warranty over buying someone's used demo that had the warranty begin a year before they even bought it.
This was a big factor in me buying new as well. The market is so small that you're unlikely to find a used bike near you, and a used bike seller is unlikely to find a buyer near them, with the possible exception of the California market. We all know that there are some lemons out there, so even if I found a used one a great distance away, I'd have strong reservations about buying one shipped or investing in the trip to go check it out in person.
I think if you happen to have a buyer and seller nearby, that might result in a fair sale price. I'm personally considering selling my 2016 FXS, but if I may keep it rather than give it away. I agree that it would be interesting to see actual sales or trade-in prices that have been negotiated.
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No one seems to understand the warranty on demo bikes, I see lots of adds saying they have full warranty. A dealer even told me it didn't start until I bought it.
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Their warranty isn't secret, it's right on their website written in pretty clear English (Note: This is for US bikes; not sure about other countries)
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/?my=2018&m=s
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I know what sellers are asking for their bikes, but what I was wondering was what they were actually getting for them? ??? And I really wonder what dealers are giving Zero owners as a trade-in on a new purchase?
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And I really wonder what dealers are giving Zero owners as a trade-in on a new purchase?
That is the 64-dollar question.
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Like most sales ads you can get a bell curve and figure you'd have some wiggle room but no one asks $12,000 for something and takes $4000 for off that ad.
As for production costs coming down i don't really see it. Zero F bikes are still at the 10ish range the S bikes down a little at the 13ish range and the R bikes have went up to the mid 16 range. Some improvements for sure but not huge leaps from 2013.
Trade in offers are a joke. They know its a hassle to post it and meet ups with looky lews and joy riders and they twist your (insert body part here) hard.
The offer I got I turned around and told them I'd buy two more bikes just like mine at that price please get them for me. He stopped smiling at being called out in that way and we just moved on.
As I've posted before Zero misses a great opportunity by not taking in used Zeros letting the dealer go over them "certified" and offering a one year or more warranty even at say a 6 or 7 hundred dollar cost to the buyer. These bikes are a whole new ball game to most people and they want their butts covered if something goes bad that they don't even understand.
As for the Demo bikes' warranty yeah that's kind of crappy. The only thing it does do is gets the dealer to start dropping the price so he isn't stuck with a 3 year old demo bike.
Richard I have set up a Cycle Trader search for Zeros and just saved the link. I check it pretty often and I have to say when I see a "real good" price it gets picked up in a week or so.
The 2012 is harder maybe $3500 in CA to the right buyer that can fix or upgrade it if needed.
The 2014 w PT about $9500 to get some interest. But I don't think you want to sell that one.
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Like most sales ads you can get a bell curve and figure you'd have some wiggle room but no one asks $12,000 for something and takes $4000 for off that ad.
As for production costs coming down i don't really see it. Zero F bikes are still at the 10ish range the S bikes down a little at the 13ish range and the R bikes have went up to the mid 16 range. Some improvements for sure but not huge leaps from 2013.
Trade in offers are a joke. They know its a hassle to post it and meet ups with looky lews and joy riders and they twist your (insert body part here) hard.
The offer I got I turned around and told them I'd buy two more bikes just like mine at that price please get them for me. He stopped smiling at being called out in that way and we just moved on.
As I've posted before Zero misses a great opportunity by not taking in used Zeros letting the dealer go over them "certified" and offering a one year or more warranty even at say a 6 or 7 hundred dollar cost to the buyer. These bikes are a whole new ball game to most people and they want their butts covered if something goes bad that they don't even understand.
As for the Demo bikes' warranty yeah that's kind of crappy. The only thing it does do is gets the dealer to start dropping the price so he isn't stuck with a 3 year old demo bike.
Richard I have set up a Cycle Trader search for Zeros and just saved the link. I check it pretty often and I have to say when I see a "real good" price it gets picked up in a week or so.
The 2012 is harder maybe $3500 in CA to the right buyer that can fix or upgrade it if needed.
The 2014 w PT about $9500 to get some interest. But I don't think you want to sell that one.
Thanks, that is interesting. I need to visit my BMW dealer tomorrow to pick up a part that I ordered (a "rain guard" fender extender, just like the one that Zero sells, but at twice the price). If I don't suffer a short term memory lapse and if the salesman isn't busy, I plan to ask them what a 2012 and 2014 Zero S is worth wholesale and retail.
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I can only offer the Canadian perspective, I checked about trade in in the summer and was given a $6500 offer ($6500 minus tax obligation =$7345) plus they would only give me that on one of their leftover bikes (2015-2017) which they have held for some time and weren't discounting by much ($500) i'm of the opinion that I should keep it and buy a cb500x for a light touring bike but my wife and insurance have kept me from venturing further! so with exchange I would say a 2013s with 2015 battery is worth $5800 usd
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Sounds about right to me, Not bad resale for a 5 year old out of warranty bike. Kills the 50% a year theory though.
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This is a great topic Richard, thanks for starting it!
I have a couple of stories from the UK that I can share. First of all, we're going back a little over two years when Justin was looking to trade in his 2013 S for either a 2015 or 2016 SR. I was interested in buying Justin's old bike so we had a chat about prices. IIRC, Justin was willing to sell his bike for around £5,500 privately. I think that price may have included the soft panniers, his Elcon and the cables he has made up. His bike was only about two years old with around 20,000 miles on the clock and in good condition. Or was it £4,500 we settled on? I'm not sure. Two years is a long time. In the end, I got an opportunity to buy one of the 2014 DSP bikes for £6,500 and that was that. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm glad I did. The two year warranty I got on buying an unregistered bike has saved me a lot of money due to reliability issues.
I'm pretty sure Justin only got around £3,000 for his trade-in. That sounds terrible considering the bike would have retailed at around £12,000 new in 2013. However, bear in mind that he may have got a good deal on the 2015SR he bought to sweeten the deal. I don't know more than that and it would be remiss of me to divulge all the details if I did. After all, that was Justin's business.
I do seem to recall that Justin's 2013 didn't go on sale. I'm pretty sure that it was absorbed by Zero. There may have been a defect along the way too. I'm sure Justin will clarify if he sees this post and has the time.
Also, keep in mind that depreciation on a new bike is partly due to tax. In the UK, we have 20% VAT (sales tax). So a bike retailing for £12,000 has had £2,000 of tax applied to it. As soon as you've handed your money over and ridden it out of the showroom you aren't going to see that £2,000 again. The tax man doesn't do refunds. VAT is also part of the reason a second hand bike costs more from a dealership. There's something called the Margin Scheme in the UK that means a dealer only has to charge VAT on the margin they sell a second hand bike for. However, it could still add a few hundred pounds to the price.
The other story I have is my own. A few months ago I asked my local dealer what they'd want for the 2016 DSR demo bike they've had for about a year or so. They answered my question with a question and asked me what I wanted for my 2014DS. I scratched my head for a moment and said £5,000. The salesman said he'd have to prepare some figures and he'd give me a call. The call never came...
My gut feeling is that I'd be lucky to get £5,000 for it privately. I would probably only get £3,000 for a trade-in. Again, that's shocking for a bike that retailed for £12-13,000 in 2014.
I was fortunate enough to get an extra year's warranty out of Zero after the fiasco with the bearings in my rear wheel. The bike also still has 3 of its five year warranty left on the battery. That helps the resale value of my particular bike at least. If anyone wants to make me an offer, let me know!
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Not too sure about the rest of the USA (let alone the world) but if you're looking for trade-in values here in New York ALL of the dealerships refer to the "Blue Book." That is either the Kelly Blue Book, or NADA. Unfortunately, the latter doesn't even LIST Zero as a manufacturer, but here is a link to the Kelly Blue Book page:
https://www.kbb.com/motorcycles/zero-motorcycles/
Even they don't list resale values for all of the models. For example, in 2016 (the year I'd be interested in knowing) they only list the resale/trade-in value for the SR model, not the S models.
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Not too sure about the rest of the USA (let alone the world) but if you're looking for trade-in values here in New York ALL of the dealerships refer to the "Blue Book." That is either the Kelly Blue Book, or NADA. Unfortunately, the latter doesn't even LIST Zero as a manufacturer, but here is a link to the Kelly Blue Book page:
https://www.kbb.com/motorcycles/zero-motorcycles/
Even they don't list resale values for all of the models. For example, in 2016 (the year I'd be interested in knowing) they only list the resale/trade-in value for the SR model, not the S models.
Thanks Jamie. That was an interesting resource. Plugging in my zip code showed that a 2012 Zero ZF9 S has a dealership trade-in value of $4,160, while a 2014 11.4 S has a trade-in value of $6,770. Personally I think both of those numbers are too high and I doubt you could get them from any motorcycle dealer. Not because the bikes might not be worth it, but because the potential market is so small that most dealerships would be worried about having the vehicle hanging around their showroom too long and their money being tied up in it, before being sold.
What you could sell them for on the private market remains up in the air in my opinion as it would depend upon luck finding someone who wants to ride electric and has enough disposable money to give it a try as an "early adopter".
I might also comment that I believe that a 2014 S is worth more than a 50% premium over a 2012 S. (The 2012 models had really crappy chassis, suspension and body parts.) I might also add that the Blue Book charts don't include Zero models with "power tanks". There goes that original $2,900 for the power tank down the drain. :(
I'll be visiting my BMW dealer today and will see what they have to say regarding this subject. Since they are selling Energica bikes, as well as the C-Evolution, perhaps they will have a better grasp regarding actual resale values than your typical IC motorcycle shop. ???
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Unfortunately, the latter doesn't even LIST Zero as a manufacturer, but here is a link to the Kelly Blue Book page:
https://www.kbb.com/motorcycles/zero-motorcycles/
I played around on that site a few minutes ago. Same as years ago they have nothing in their formulas for what is still available as new left over bikes and the prices that are easy to search up on a New York dealership I have dealt with. Example 2015 their price for an excellent condition 9000 mile used bike is only $800 less than the new left over Yamaha FZ1. Also note the trade in price is coming up good condition and the for sale price is for excellent. Town tax uses NADA not KBB. An answer to the question here could be to look at your tax assessment or talk to the assessor.
It does not seem to be an option to lease a bike. I have watched advice about not buying a new electric automobile but lease one on non commercial public access TV if one watches those channels.
Fran
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While at my BMW dealer today I asked my question and was tossed a copy of the NADA book. In the back of the book I found a page with every Zero model ever sold and its price when new. But not a peep about resale values. Just a note at the top of the page that said that the used electric motorcycle market is odd and they have no information regarding used Zero values. :( So I assume that if you are a dealer taking in one on a trade-in you are on your own. :o
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Yeah, every dealer I've worked with over the years ALWAYS pulls out that little NADA book when talking trade; doesn't matter if it's a car or a motorcycle. I get the impression if its not listed in NADA, it doesn't exist. At least the Kelly Blue Book has SOME data on used Zeros.
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Richard I am shocked at the actual honesty from both your dealer and that book. You must really be (as I figured you were) a very nice respected person and valued customer at that dealership.
That statement in the book is right, there just isn't enough real sales data for the formulas they come up with for most bikes. The best thing I can say is watch the big for sale sites Cycle Trader, Ebay (hint there is a new listing for a 14 S on there right now) and see what people are asking for them.
Asking aint getting but it is close. :)
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Richard I am shocked at the actual honesty from both your dealer and that book. You must really be (as I figured you were) a very nice respected person and valued customer at that dealership.
That statement in the book is right, there just isn't enough real sales data for the formulas they come up with for most bikes. The best thing I can say is watch the big for sale sites Cycle Trader, Ebay (hint there is a new listing for a 14 S on there right now) and see what people are asking for them.
Asking aint getting but it is close. :)
I have been buying BMW motorcycles from this dealer since 1985 and I prefer not to think about how much money I have spent at the shop. So yes, I am considered a valued customer. However, I am not sure how "respected" I am - although they were impressed when I told them that I currently owned my fifth electric motorcycle and have been riding them since 2009. ;)
I have my doubts that the asking price of a used electric motorcycle has any relationship to the actual selling price. Unfortunately, most electric motorcycle owners are enthusiasts trying to sell to a market full of people who likely don't share their enthusiasm or knowledge and are not quite sure what they would be buying. Plus, most people have cell phones and other new technology, which loose value very quickly, as new products and versions come on the market. So that would make potential interested buyers pretty cautious when it comes to investing in a used electric motorcycle that they may not be familiar with. ???
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The biggest problem is if people need a loan to get the bike. The lack of data will scare the crap out of a bank I'm sure. That's where the dealers' money guys come in.
People also need to know that mileage is a good thing for these bikes. It shows the battery is (or at least has been) healthy and it's been rode, charged, and rode again. A 2014 with 1500 miles? No thanks.
I bought mine sight unseen. I had never even been on one. It still had a few months of warranty left which eased my mind. But for what I paid I could have dropped thousands in repairs and still been ahead of buying new.
There is some young person out there who fits that 2012 just right. They don't care about a rougher ride they just walk it off. If you put it out there for $3000 and take the first $2500 I feel it will be sold by spring.
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The biggest problem is if people need a loan to get the bike. The lack of data will scare the crap out of a bank I'm sure. That's where the dealers' money guys come in.
People also need to know that mileage is a good thing for these bikes. It shows the battery is (or at least has been) healthy and it's been rode, charged, and rode again. A 2014 with 1500 miles? No thanks.
I bought mine sight unseen. I had never even been on one. It still had a few months of warranty left which eased my mind. But for what I paid I could have dropped thousands in repairs and still been ahead of buying new.
There is some young person out there who fits that 2012 just right. They don't care about a rougher ride they just walk it off. If you put it out there for $3000 and take the first $2500 I feel it will be sold by spring.
I spoke with my son-in-law today. Now that he has the 2012 Zero S running well, with its new encoder circuits, he wants to keep the bike and not sell it. Instead, he wants to sell his 110,000-mile 1986 Honda VFR700FII. (And it has a new battery too, which he needed to buy this morning before he could go out on a ride. I guess batteries are nothing but trouble. ;) )
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I've been trying to sell my 2014 S for a couple months on craigslist and kelly blue book without the power tank is $9,645.
I have the power tank, selling for $8800 and no one is interested, not a single email. I guess I should bump my ad on the forum here.
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Cycle Trader and Ebay have much better reputations than Craigslist.
Selling local would be great but be willing to work with a buyer's shipper.
Also putting up a You Tube video of the bike riding and charging as it should helps an out of state buyer.
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I really feel sorry for the early adopters of the Energica brand motorcycles. :'( My recollection is that when they first came to the market they were selling for the mid- to high-$30,000 in the U.S. Then last year (at least in California) the price dropped into the mid-twenty thousands, USD. Now the prices for the 2017 bikes are between $16K to $20K, or so. There goes the old resale value - except in the eye of the California DMV, who reduces the yearly taxable value of vehicles by only 10% each year, based upon their original selling price. :(
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I know what sellers are asking for their bikes, but what I was wondering was what they were actually getting for them? ??? And I really wonder what dealers are giving Zero owners as a trade-in on a new purchase?
I just recently sold my 2014 Zero S. I took it to a dealer near Chicago in Dec 2015 and got a quote for trade in of $8800. That same dealer had a 2012 Zero S for sale for $6500 in 2014 when I bought my 2014 Zero S from them in Aug of 2014. I ended up keeping the 2014 Zero S but eventually bought a 2017 Zero SR in Dec of 2016.
In Oct of 2017 I took my 2014 Zero S to a dealer in St. Louis and asked about trade in but they didn't want to trade. The concern was how long it might take to sell. The dealer in St. Louis has only been a dealer since Apr 2016 so they don't have any experience trying to sell a used Zero. I ended up leaving the bike with them on consignment and listed it for $7500. I felt it was a very fair price based on the condition of my bike and listed prices of other bikes on craigslist, cycle trader, Kelly Blue Book and here on EMF. My bike was in very good condition since I had replaced all the plastic as well as several other parts prior to putting the bike up for sale.
I actually didn't post it for sale here on EMF until Dec of 2017. When I originally priced my bike, one thing that I took into consideration was that a possible buyer would not be local and would have to ship the bike. That turned out to be a good decision because I was first contacted by the person that bought the bike 6 weeks later in mid Jan 2018 who turned out to be located back in San Francisco. After exchanging a few emails the buyer agreed to pay my asking price. The buyer was responsible for shipping costs and they ended up using UShip to get the bike back to SF.
The whole sale process did take a while. The buyer shipped a certified check but there was a mistake on the check so I had to send it back to them. They quickly sent me a new check as soon as they got the original back which helped me keep confidence in the sale. Once I received the corrected check I deposited and then waited 10 business days before allowing the buyer to pick up the bike. This was on the recommendation of my bank.
From the time I was first contacted by the buyer to the time they had the bike in San Francisco took almost 30 days but in the end I am very happy with the sale. The bike went to a rider that just recently purchased a 2017 Zero S and his wife caught the bug. The buyer purchased the bike for his wife and she is very happy with the bike. I am glad the bike will be ridden and well taken care of.
I probably could have gotten a little more for the bike if I was willing to wait longer for a sale but I am very happy to sell it at a fair price to someone that will really appreciate the bike and make good use of it.
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On the facebook group there has been at least one post in the last 2 weeks of someone buying a 2014 11.4 from a dealer for $6000 flat and so that would tell me the trade in is less than $5k perhaps now. It seemed low mileage (doesn't matter) and good condition. Another owner said he traded up to a 2018 and traded in his 2014 for the upper $5k range. Just for some more data.
Also in Aug 2017, user Brian West traded in his 2014 Zero for $6800 towards his new 2017 SR, for a 3rd data point that is 7 months old now, and one model year older too, so it can be assumed to be below $6000 for a 2014 now, except for the SR or having a powertank perhaps.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155697916741617&set=pcb.1422900421112495&type=3&ifg=1
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It's hard to get a real value because it's value versus demand. I have a 2016 Zero S 9.8 for sale for only $7500 but have only had a few nibbles. I feel like most of these people buying Zeros are people upgrading and they all want bigger batteries. So it is much harder to off load older models with smaller batteries or no R versions .
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After checking the french 2nd hand web site, I found a handfull of zeros at "fair" prices, and also a handfull of "BMW C EVO" asking prices near list price of new bikes. Does it mean that the BMW depreciates much less or that those sellers just overestimate the BMW reputation?
Finally I was willing to buy (13 months ago already!) my '14 S from a guy in Paris, about 500km far away from home. At about half price of new, with only 5kkm on the clock. And it took me 1.5 days (including endless recharging) driving it (slowly) back home.
The bike I bought was put on sale first at the parisian Zero retailer and later on the web site for private transactions, it took over 6 months for the seller finding a buyer (me), at 2k€ less than original asking price.
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After checking the french 2nd hand web site, I found a handfull of zeros at "fair" prices, and also a handfull of "BMW C EVO" asking prices near list price of new bikes. Does it mean that the BMW depreciates much less or that those sellers just overestimate the BMW reputation?
Finally I was willing to buy (13 months ago already!) my '14 S from a guy in Paris, about 500km far away from home. At about half price of new, with only 5kkm on the clock. And it took me 1.5 days (including endless recharging) driving it (slowly) back home.
The bike I bought was put on sale first at the parisian Zero retailer and later on the web site for private transactions, it took over 6 months for the seller finding a buyer (me), at 2k€ less than original asking price.
Electric motorcycle/scooter prices are really hard to figure out. ??? It all seems to depend upon the local market. BMW decided to sell its C-Evolution scooter, with the top-of-the-line battery pack, in California to test the market. They have given it a really inexpensive price of just under $14,000. I think that is much less than what they sell for in Europe, so BMW must be loosing money on each sale. Unfortunately for BMWNA, my dealer can't seem to give them away. They have only sold one during the past 5 months and that was to a customer in Texas. The dealership is located in the heart of Silicon Valley and you would think that a well-made and technically sophisticated BMW-brand electric scooter would sell reasonably well, especially at that low price. But no. The EV enthusiasts around here are sticking with their loaded $100K+ Tesla Model S cars and are not about to risk their lives or cell phone connections while riding a two-wheeled contrivance. ::)
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I would say the resale value is all based on where you live. I listed my Zero on here, Craigslist and Cycle Trader and only had one person that was interested. But not at The price i was listing it for. The bike is a 2017 Zero DSR with approx 3500 miles. I paid $18,000 or so for it, listed it for $13,500 and then listed it for $11,500. There were no takers. I even have a lot of extras on it. The bike is only 8 months old and I have the title in hand. So it appears here on the east coast not much interest. I cant take that much of a loss so I decided to keep it and run it until its dead and see how long it goes.
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I would say the resale value is all based on where you live. I listed my Zero on here, Craigslist and Cycle Trader and only had one person that was interested. But not at The price i was listing it for. The bike is a 2017 Zero DSR with approx 3500 miles. I paid $18,000 or so for it, listed it for $13,500 and then listed it for $11,500. There were no takers. I even have a lot of extras on it. The bike is only 8 months old and I have the title in hand. So it appears here on the east coast not much interest. I cant take that much of a loss so I decided to keep it and run it until its dead and see how long it goes.
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I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer. The way things are going in California, it won't take too long before those type of gas prices are reached, thanks to our automatic and various types of hidden fuel taxes (including sales taxes based upon the total price of the fuel, which includes regular gas taxes, as well as carbon-credit taxes and the cost of other fuel-related regulations). Right now my local gas station has raised its price for regular fuel to $3.52 and the price is going up 5 cents a week. It is only a matter of time before the public becomes aware of electric motorcycles and the advantages of riding them. ;)
Which also reminds me. Most of Zero's parts are sourced in China and Trump is about to announce hefty tariffs on high-tech Chinese goods. I wonder if those parts will be affected by the tariffs and if they are, what will happen to Zero's prices and ultimately their sales and ability to continue in business.? ???
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Originalspacerob, first that WA bike got sold out from under me with the worst dealer practice I've ever dealt with so maybe some karma on my part.
You had a good price on your bike. You have to remember it's not just where it's at but when it's at, the north east coast in still frozen right now, come April your bike would sell.
The extras are tricky because it's like any custom setup it's harder to find someone who perfectly matches those options to their needs.
If you want to keep it I think that's your best move if you still like riding it.
I think shipping and taxes on my end may have put me out of the 2017 market and I'll wait for a cheaper 18 with the 14.4 since fast charging just isn't an option for my area, I need range.
For others looking to sell, these bikes would realistically take 4 or more months to sell, it's just a small market. My local dealer took a year and a half to sell a used DR650 so that's just sort of the bike market (don't get me started on boats) right now.
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I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer.
Really?
In EU the typical gas price is almost 1.50€/liter, thats about 7 USD/Gal US. And people don't care, are not so interrested in EV's and EMC's. Maybe EU cars typically burn much less gas per distance unit than US (big) cars...
whereever, gas price is really low. Most people are angry about gas price because whatever its value, it is too much. Maybe for free it would be acceptable. Nobody seems to understand the amount of (fossile and climate killing) energy contained in a liter of gas. Just try and move in another way than with the car or the ICE bike. By foot, bicycle, horseback, bus, train, helicopter, taxi or even EV! At the end, the petrol car remains the least expensive vs. speed and comfort. even with gas price at 10$/gal.
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I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer.
Really?
In EU the typical gas price is almost 1.50€/liter, thats about 7 USD/Gal US. And people don't care, are not so interrested in EV's and EMC's. Maybe EU cars typically burn much less gas per distance unit than US (big) cars...
whereever, gas price is really low. Most people are angry about gas price because whatever its value, it is too much. Maybe for free it would be acceptable. Nobody seems to understand the amount of (fossile and climate killing) energy contained in a liter of gas. Just try and move in another way than with the car or the ICE bike. By foot, bicycle, horseback, bus, train, helicopter, taxi or even EV! At the end, the petrol car remains the least expensive vs. speed and comfort. even with gas price at 10$/gal.
On a somewhat related subject, an article in my newspaper today said that San Francisco, Oakland and other cities and counties in northern California are suing the Big Oil companies to recover costs associated with adapting to climate change. They say that much of the warming of the world's climate is the result of burning the fossil fuel that Big Oil is selling and therefore they should be responsible for these costs. So far Big Oil has agreed that the climate is warming but have not agreed that they knew about it before anyone else did and failed to tell the public about the cause and that global warming costs are their responsibility, which is what the lawsuit is attempting to establish. The law suit is just starting and will likely go for quite a while until the court makes it decision - or tosses the case. Once that happens there are lots of higher courts to visit. ;)
Sorry about hijacking the thread subject. :-[
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Originalspacerob, first that WA bike got sold out from under me with the worst dealer practice I've ever dealt with so maybe some karma on my part.
You had a good price on your bike. You have to remember it's not just where it's at but when it's at, the north east coast in still frozen right now, come April your bike would sell.
The extras are tricky because it's like any custom setup it's harder to find someone who perfectly matches those options to their needs.
If you want to keep it I think that's your best move if you still like riding it.
I think shipping and taxes on my end may have put me out of the 2017 market and I'll wait for a cheaper 18 with the 14.4 since fast charging just isn't an option for my area, I need range.
For others looking to sell, these bikes would realistically take 4 or more months to sell, it's just a small market. My local dealer took a year and a half to sell a used DR650 so that's just sort of the bike market (don't get me started on boats) right now.
I am sorry the bike in WA did not work out. I still enjoy riding the bike. Most people up here are looking for bikes. So they will be ready for the riding season. That and motor homes. Anytime there is a day above 40 people are out riding. Its such a niche market here. I see lots of Teslas around and hybrids. More than the last few years. The dealer I got my Zero from only sold 6 bikes last year and we only have two dealers in CT. The other dealer I am mot sure.
Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.
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Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.
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Interesting study on the correlation between gas prices and moto riding. While motorcycle sales do increase when gas prices rise, the more significant effect is that people who already own motorcycles ride them more. It's not specifically in this study, but I doubt people looking to save gas money are going to look seriously at electric motos, since there are only very limited use cases where a Zero is cheaper to own and operate. Maybe different if gas prices changes by $20 per gallon rather than $2.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005806/#!po=44.3750
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Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting study on the correlation between gas prices and moto riding. While motorcycle sales do increase when gas prices rise, the more significant effect is that people who already own motorcycles ride them more. It's not specifically in this study, but I doubt people looking to save gas money are going to look seriously at electric motos, since there are only very limited use cases where a Zero is cheaper to own and operate. Maybe different if gas prices changes by $20 per gallon rather than $2.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005806/#!po=44.3750
In my case, I suffered through the "gas crisis" of the mid-1970's, when you just couldn't find gasoline at any price at times. I can remember sitting in my car for a couple of hours in a long line of cars at 5 am in the morning waiting for the gas station to open. I would fill up my car's tank and siphon out some of the fuel to put in my motorcycles and ride them to work. Everyone was buying small motorcycles and scooters (and crashing them right and left) to get to work. However, the second the "crisis" was over and gas was plentiful again, those small motorcycles and scooters were parked in the back of the garage to rust away, or dumped in the backyard to become flower planters. However, if electric cars or motorcycles were available at that time, people would be buying every one that they could get their hands on and at any price and then dropping them into the used car marked as soon as gas was cheap again. In the U.S. most vehicle owners just love gas stations, where you can refuel you car, get something to eat and a beer to drink. ::)
I continue to remember those gas-less days and I am ready for their return. Still waiting. ;)
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Fall 1973, first oil crisis. I was a child, living at that time in Germany. Uhhh, West-Germany! The government decided car driving prohibition every sunday. With some exceptions of course. These sundays were marvelous, with plenty of people cycling everywhere on the highways. :) These memories are not yet completely washed-out from my neurones. About 2 months later the gvt dropped this driving restriction and everything went on as usual. :(
Sorry for OT... 8)
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Bit like the petrol strikes in the UK back around 2000, the roads were deserted. Damn I wish I'd had my zero back then.
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Here in Los Angeles a 2015 S was listed for $6500 and it took almost 2 months to sell. Not a high mileage bike either. I picked up my 2015 DS for under 7K and it has a new 13.0 battery and only 1500 miles. As with anything else, it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. With electric vehicles the battery is what determines value. Crazy expensive to replace so it’s a double edge sword when selling. As a buyer I could care less what you payed for your bike. What is it worth to me?
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Bit like the petrol strikes in the UK back around 2000, the roads were deserted. Damn I wish I'd had my zero back then.
By the way, how's the new one Justin?. Are you happy to share what you got for your 2015SR?
I suggested that my Zero was worth about £4,500 to my local dealer as a part exchange on a new model. They could give it a wash and I'm sure someone would be happy to pay £5,000 for it with about 9 months warranty remaining. It'll have a new rear shock absorber soon too...