ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Snafuperman on September 26, 2018, 03:27:15 AM
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I'm back to looking at Zero motorcycles. Is the company still viable? I don't see any news of their imminent demise but I think you guys would know best from personal experience with your dealerships. I would not want to spend $18K and have the company fold afterwards . . .
Also, are there any other manufacturers of electric motorcycles/scooters that I should pay attention to?
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Good question. In the electric vehicle business no one knows, even Tesla's future is not guaranteed.
I think I can safely say that the latest Zero bikes are the best they have ever been. With any brand the local dealer is a bit of a lottery. I know Zero is expanding their dealer network in Europe so I think they'll be here while longer.
For full size street motorcycles, as opposed to scooters, they are IMHO the best for the price. Energica are more expensive, Alta are aimed offroad. If you want something radically different have a look at Johammer. :) If you want large dealer network, that is practically guaranteed to be here for a while, check the BMW C evolution scooter.
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If you're concerned about company viability, Zero is the best game in town. They have (by quite a bit) the highest sales, which has gone up every year, I believe for the life of the company (eleven years now?). That's a great sign given that other motorcycle manufacturers are seeing declines in sales, especially Harley, which is starting to flail around trying to stanch the bleeding. In fact someone just said on this forum somewhere that they can't find a 2018 Zero S to buy, because Zero sold out pretty early this year. That's got to be a good sign.
I don't believe Zero has tremendous amounts of VC money backing them, or huge grants of any sort, which means they're living hand to mouth without a big safety cushion, but it also keeps them highly motivated to sell product to keep the doors open. That's why their bang-for-the-buck (As Zarathustra says) is higher than the rest -- it has to be.
Compared by sales volume alone, the other makes are almost custom shops, boutiques at best. They may be viable because of large VC investments or some other large-scale backing, but it would be hard to call them full-on motorcycle manufacturers yet. Until Harley steps into the ring for real, I don't see that changing much.
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Thanks for the responses. I liked the Zero bikes a couple years ago and they still look great.
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Thanks for the responses. I liked the Zero bikes a couple years ago and they still look great.
If you liked them then, you will like them now. They haven't changed much. ;)
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The company is still viable, at least in California. I bought a DSR ZF14.4 the day before yesterday.
Of course, after two whole days and all of 60 miles, I still love it...
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Best they have ever been....we've happily been a Zero dealer since 2011. The company and the bikes have come a long ways.
Sales are growing at a good clip.
Looking forward to the 2019s release
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Given the recent listing on GSA I would say that Zero is in the best position it has ever been.
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They now have nice juicy government contracting... so even if their dealers all stop carrying them, they will still be around in some capacity for a number of years.
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I spoke with an police officer in the city where I used to work on Tuesday. He told me that the city just bought 15 police mountain bicycles for trolling around the downtown area and that sucked up their current two-wheel budget. He also told me that he would like the city to buy Zeros but the price was pretty stiff right now and they would likely only do so if they received a grant from some other agency. It is all about money and money is pretty tight right now - if you can't print it like the federal government does. ::)
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It looks like Zero has had regular injections of money since 2012, but maybe the fact that they didn't have a funding round in 2018 yet a good thing.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zero-motorcycles/funding_rounds/funding_rounds_list
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I have had three zeros over the years and I still have two of them (my 2010 DS lasted 17,000 miles though).I ride every day and love it. My 2015 SR has 36,000 miles and my 2017 FX (which is mostly used as a dirt bike) has 2500 miles.
It requires a leap of faith to drop a lot of cash on anything but zeros really are worth it, the bike will repay you with miles of smiles.
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Thanks for the responses.
One easy question: If I buy a Zero I will ride it (in rotation) with my 9 other motorcycles. I ride 4-5 times a week, for about 50 miles each ride, which means I ride one of my bikes about twice a month. The Zero would be ridden in the same manner. So, given that I will never ride it more than 50 miles twice a month, can I charge it using a normal 110V line in the garage? Does the line have to be a dedicated line? What amp circuit breaker? Keep in mind that I won't be buying any super-fast charging option -- won't need it.
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Yeah no problem. But to be honest when you ride it you don't want to ride gas anymore. Much better riding experience and practically free.
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Thanks for the responses.
One easy question: If I buy a Zero I will ride it (in rotation) with my 9 other motorcycles. I ride 4-5 times a week, for about 50 miles each ride, which means I ride one of my bikes about twice a month. The Zero would be ridden in the same manner. So, given that I will never ride it more than 50 miles twice a month, can I charge it using a normal 110V line in the garage? Does the line have to be a dedicated line? What amp circuit breaker? Keep in mind that I won't be buying any super-fast charging option -- won't need it.
I ride my Zero once or twice a week, as I too have multiple ICE motorcycles that I try to ride at least once a week. I plug my Zero's on-board charger into my garage's 120 V electrical wall outlet that has a 20 amp breaker. The stock on-board charger pulls between 10.5 amps and 11.5 amps, depending upon the state of the charge of your battery pack. So you will have no problem connecting to a line that is shared with other small home appliances.
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A nice reply if you think you will ride your Zero in rotation. I have heard from several people who have ICE bikes and bought a Zero. The result? The Zero is such a blast to ride it ended up hogging 80% of their riding time with the poor ICE bikes being ridden for long trips.
Believe me, the thrill doesnt wear off and it is such a uniquely different experience, your other bikes will soon collect dust.
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One easy question: If I buy a Zero I will ride it (in rotation) with my 9 other motorcycles. I ride 4-5 times a week, for about 50 miles each ride, which means I ride one of my bikes about twice a month. The Zero would be ridden in the same manner. So, given that I will never ride it more than 50 miles twice a month, can I charge it using a normal 110V line in the garage? Does the line have to be a dedicated line? What amp circuit breaker? Keep in mind that I won't be buying any super-fast charging option -- won't need it.
I see more than one easy question. :) Yes, you can charge with any voltage from around 90 VAC to 250 VAC. The current will automatically drop as the voltage increases. Therefore charge time will be about the same. A higher AC voltage is better to charge with, as that means less current and that means less heat and very slightly better efficiency but perhaps not enough to be concerned with. I now charge mine with 240 VAC but I have used 120 VAC for more than a year. At 120 VAC expect it to draw around 13 amps for the single on-board charger at 120 VAC. Half that (6.5 amps) at 240 VAC.
Above is true for the Zero on-board chargers as well as for the Zero Quick Chargers.
So yeah, it's best to have a dedicated line on 120 VAC but as long as the total current stays below 16 amps or so, you should be okay if you have 20 amp breakers. For a continuous or long term draw, you should be at least 20% below the rating of your circuit breaker. On 240 VAC, you can usually run several chargers. I run three (on board plus two Zero quick chargers) when I charge at 240 VAC on a single line, but I have 60 amp AC circuits at my house for my Tesla which I convert to a J-plug for my Zero motorcycles.
FWIW, for my shorter rides, I ride my two Zeros more than all my other bikes combined.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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A nice reply if you think you will ride your Zero in rotation. I have heard from several people who have ICE bikes and bought a Zero. The result? The Zero is such a blast to ride it ended up hogging 80% of their riding time with the poor ICE bikes being ridden for long trips.
Believe me, the thrill doesnt wear off and it is such a uniquely different experience, your other bikes will soon collect dust.
Yep, that's me who you just described. I own seven ICE bikes and two Zeros. My ICE bikes are rarely used, but always for longer trips. The Zeros are used every day except for these rainy days like yesterday and today when I use a cage.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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This is a good question. I hate to say this, but have seen them cutting corners or pressuring dealers to make customers pay for things Zero should replace. No company would do this, unless you really have problems. If you need to be 100% sure, go for KTM or BMW.
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KTM. Right now, I wouldn't touch a BMW product with a ten foot pole...
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BMW Evo scooters have really good reviews (and seemingly lower maintenance costs than BMW ICE model) and a good second hand market. Did you have a bad experience ?
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BMW Evo scooters have really good reviews (and seemingly lower maintenance costs than BMW ICE model) and a good second hand market. Did you have a bad experience ?
Rather than repeat myself:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8508.msg72087#msg72087
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A nice reply if you think you will ride your Zero in rotation. I have heard from several people who have ICE bikes and bought a Zero. The result? The Zero is such a blast to ride it ended up hogging 80% of their riding time with the poor ICE bikes being ridden for long trips.
Believe me, the thrill doesnt wear off and it is such a uniquely different experience, your other bikes will soon collect dust.
Yep, that's me who you just described. I own seven ICE bikes and two Zeros. My ICE bikes are rarely used, but always for longer trips. The Zeros are used every day except for these rainy days like yesterday and today when I use a cage.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Another one checking in. Have two Ducatis (planning to sell them, but you know, that requires effort).
I have a slightly different version of this problem, though; I bought the 2017 SR and a 2019 Energica EVA, and now my Zero is getting maybe 10% of the riding time and the EVA gets 90%. The Ducatis literally haven't been ridden in two months.
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In my case the Zero spends so much time in the dealership because of quality problems that I had to buy a replacement bike. Now it has been one months and i still have no new from Zero...
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I'm no longer looking to buy a Zero. This may change, of course, at some later date. Thank you for your replies -- they are much appreciated.