ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Infant on October 18, 2018, 03:23:36 AM
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Hi all,
I've recently acquired an old 2011 Zero DS which was sold to me with the promise of having intermittent throttle cutouts.
I can confirm.
I'm hoping someone has one lying around in 'factory' condition and can help me confirm some of the behavior I'm seeing.
I've tied together one of those ODBII debug cables to check if the MBB has anything to say for itself:
ZERO MBB> DEBUG: EepromFindNextAvailableEventLogEntrySlot Timeout
*************************************************************
* *
* Zero Motorcycles Main Bike Board *
* *
* Board Rev : 01.00 *
* Firmware Rev : 01.11 *
* Built : Nov 9 2011 17:44:00 *
* Bike Type : S and DS *
* Serial Num : 05262 *
*************************************************************
- Reset Source: POR BOR
- Running Self-Test.... Passed
- Establishing CAN connection to BMS.... Passed
- Precharging.... Passed
PASSWORD> 1.21gigawatts
*************
- Logged in
Today, after startup, it responded to throttle a few times, and now it has cut out.
There are no errors in the MBB, the log doesn't say anything of consequence.
If I check the inputs page, the kill switch is in run and the stand is up.
If I open the throttle, the out value according to the MBB is 3100 mV.
ZERO MBB> inputs
inputs
****************************************
* All Inputs *
****************************************
- Pack Voltage : 56927 mV (844 ADC)
- Precharge Voltage : 54589 mV (841 ADC)
- Battery Throttle En : 49137 mV (712 ADC)
- Contactor Enable : 8161 mV (121 ADC)
- Contactor Coil Voltage : 48766 mV
- Raw Kill Switch : 0 mV (0 ADC)
- Kill Switch Pos : Run
- Raw Kickstand Switch : 1333 mV (410 ADC)
- Kickstand Switch Pos : Up
- Medium Speed Switch : Off
- Low Speed Switch : Off
- Raw Throttle0 Position : 688 ADC
- Raw Throttle1 Position : 1021 ADC
- Normalized Thr Position : 1023 ADC
- Final Throttle Position : 99%
- Throttle Out : 3105 mV (636 ADC)
- Board Temp : 22 C (551 ADC)
- Motor Temp1 : 18 C (583 ADC)
- External Temp 1 : 1021 ADC
- External Temp 2 : 1021 ADC
- External Temp 3 : 1021 ADC
- Motor Speed Pin : 0
- Motor Speed Counter : 0
- Motor Speed RPM : 0
- Bike Speed MPH : 0
- Motor Current Sense 0 : 0 A (22 ADC)
- Motor Current Sense 1 : -1 A (20 ADC)
- Motor Current VREF 0 : 2429 mV (747 ADC)
- Motor Current VREF 1 : 1173 mV (361 ADC)
- Motor Current Raw 0 : 2412 mV (480 ADC)
If the MBB outputs a voltage signal, I would expect the AXE controller to be in a 0-5V mode instead of a 0-5k potentiometer mode.
My AXE controller starts up with one green blink (which should mean 0-5k) and then a solid green for run.
Can anyone confirm that the AXE should start up with a single green blink?
And: Can someone show me a comparable MBB log?
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Okay,
I've measured the throttle signal when the bike wasn't responding.
It measures only 3100 mV at the pin going to the Alltrax when I open the throttle.
This seems to be configurable with the scale setting in the MBB. If I load the default, the scale setting is 63%. If i turn that to 33%, the throttle outputs 1600mV or so, and 5000 mV at 100%.
So by default, this bike is only running at ~60% power. Or at least, the controller is only ever getting a 63% throttle input by default.
Today, the controller has decided to work. When I disengage the kill switch, I hear a slight "clunk" from the motor. (Not the relay, it sounds different...)
I can repeat this all day long.
Whenever it decides to not respond to throttle, I get no clunk sound. I do hear the contactor engage when I power the bike off and on, but no subsequent clunk.
In both cases, the green LED on the Alltrax is a single blink, and then a solid green.
So, I'm suspecting the Alltrax is at fault here.
When it decides to cut out again, I'll check if the controller is actually getting battery power. I'm 99% sure it should not turn green if it isn't.
I couldn't find anything about the scale setting. Has everyone just silently tuned this up to 100%?
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Can you describe how you made your obd comnection?
Your issue sounds a lot like mine but I was getting a repetitive motor clunking at initialization. The alltrax green light routine eventually failed but was normal for a while which made it confusing. I got a used alltrax which made the bike operable but not completely happy as it was for a zero s and mine is a zero x
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I followed https://zeromanual.com/wiki/How_to_build_a_cable_to_access_the_MBB (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/How_to_build_a_cable_to_access_the_MBB).
It works with a 3V3 TTL serial converter, for instance https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-development-kits/7676200/ (https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-development-kits/7676200/)
Mine's baudrate is at 9600N1 instead of the 38400N1 from the manual.
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Ahh ok great. Is the OBD male terminal optional if I just plug the TTL cable ends directly into the correct holes on the bikes female OBD port?
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I have the same problem with my zero x 2010 considering the "clunk" issue, sometimes it apears. Did you solve this problem yet?
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I did solve it. I tested the motor controller on it's own, with a different motor. Whenever it's led said it was ready, it simply didn't do anything. I replaced it with a Kelly 72V regen controller with a direct throttle.
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Reading this you suddenly understand that fixing your Zero is not for everybody :-)
Guys are you all power electronics specialists ?
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Reading this you suddenly understand that fixing your Zero is not for everybody :-)
Guys are you all power electronics specialists ?
I am amazed by this also. The talent, and the fact that major parts are even remotely interchangeable.
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Must have been a rough New Year for you guys.
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Hello.
It looks like I am experiencing the exact same issue.
Can you tell me which Kelly controller you used specifically? Which amperage? Which options?
Also, about the direct throttle, you just rewired the grip potentiometer straight to the controller?
Thanks!
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Nevermind,
I think the KDZ48550 is a close match to the Alltrax AXE 4855 :
- 48V (60V max)
- 550A peak
- 220A continuous
https://kellycontroller.com/shop/kdz/
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So, for closure,
I got the KDZ48550 quickly directly from kellycontroller.com from china and it works perfectly.
Some notes :
The connection blades for the high current connections are horizontal instead of vertical like they are on the AXE controller. As such, they are too close to the bottom of the controller, and with the big wires attached with their bolts and nuts, the nuts will touch the motorcycle frame when the controller is attached to the bike with the original threaded posts (the holes in the kelly controller have the exact same placement as those on the AXE controller). I had to add spacers (some nuts) between the frame and the controller when mounting it back on the bike.
Also, I just had to reconnect the 3 wires from the MBB to the correct pins on the J2 connector :
blue-white to J2 pin 3 (rtn)
white to J2 pin 5 (throttle)
orange-white to J2 pin 1 (controller power)
I set the controller to work with the "torque" mode in the configuration app. Set the throttle to use 0-5kohm input.
Don't forget to order a J2 breakout cable from Kelly Controller when you order the controller.
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Infant et. al.
I am about to try the Kelly controller to replace my Axe 7245. I was wondering if you had any wisdom on the Output. 400 or 550. I am guessing 400A. Also, With regen or without. And any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks!!!
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As mentioned 2 posts up, I went with the KDZ48550 , which is rated for 220 continuous amps and 550 peak, with a max voltage of 60V. I chose the version without regen, as I didn't know how the main bike board would react to negative amps (charging) being fed through its sensor.
I wish I had gotten the 72V variant, so I could up the voltage in the future and get a bit more speed (my top speed is now 95 kph, just not enough to be safe on the highway here in Québec, Canada).
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please contact me need help on my zero ds 2011 throttle issue jacquestouchette1951@gmail.com canada or on this forum thanks all