ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Jarrett on February 22, 2019, 08:31:05 AM
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Update:
Six day old 2019 FX had to be returned to the dealer to have the battery replaced due to a safety/power issue with it.
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Original Post:
Ok, another newbie question.
I go for a 30 mile ride today at 39 mph average. I started at 100% and return to the house with 16% showing.
I get off the bike and open the garage, walk back and now it says 24%.
I go inside and change clothes and come back, its at 33%
I turn it off and leave it for 2 hours, come back and turn it back on, still 33%
While I stand there for 5 minutes watching it, the gauge goes 34%, 35% and finally 36%.
I waited a bit longer, but it didn't climb any higher. I turned it off and plugged it in.
So what happened?
Was it really at 16%? Or was it at 36% the whole time and showed lower initially? Is there some sort of 20% buffer in there?
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There are rumors that the percent charge meter is self-calibrating and will get more accurate over time, especially if you ride the battery near empty. I have run it all the way down a couple of times (which internally is not completely empty).
My meter has always been optimistic by about 4%, but is otherwise precise and predictable. It doesn't jump around. Yours ought to settle down quickly.
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FWIW I've ridden mine since October, and had alot of days at first above ~60F. I've found that the SOC is most consistent first above ~55, and second above ~35% SOC. If you get below both I found it varied quite a bit. Below 30% at 65F seemed fairly okay, but below 30% at 45F, the last 30% should have been 10% it went that fast.
Lithium batteries are tricky to measure SOC of, I know iphones actually use coulomb counters (count the electrons that pass from the battery to the circuit) to determine a more accurate amount of how much battery is left, but i'm sure this is more tricky / expensive with high amperage circuits. I'd imagine Zero just measures battery voltage which varies a lot with SOC and temperature.
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The average temp on this ride was 46 degrees if that makes a difference.
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My 2014 S battery pack SOC-counter used to jump around by one or two percent when turned off and then back on. However, my 2018 S has been very accurate, even when run down to "00". No jumping around when being ridden or being recharged and it doesn't change when the ignition is turned off and then back on. I really have no complaints regarding the system. It is a lot more accurate than any ICE motorcycle fuel gauge that I have seen. :)
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I'll call Zero today and see what they say.
I'd really like to know if I was at 16% or 36%. That certainly makes a difference in the length of the ride.
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Check your bike's voltage with the app. The big boys swear it's the best indicator of SOC. There is also an app called "Zero Voltage" that isn't the company app but a few guys on here have it and like it. It costs $5 and I haven't gotten it myself yet but I do plan to when spring hits.
Mostly just relax and enjoy your new bike. :)
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Getting a grip on the range anxiety (AKA what the battery is doing) will go along way to adding enjoyment to the ride, for sure.
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Called Zero, they had no idea.
They said to email them and they would get it routed to someone that hopefully knows.
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I have the same problem on a new 19 SR with power pack. The % meter went from 19 to 26 while I was having lunch today. When I get home it well charge 20% the first hour. 35 degrees today.
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19 SR with power pack. Wind light, temp 32 degrees today. 100% to 0+ 4 miles. 95 miles total. 10.53 kWhs used. 110.5 watts per mile. Full electrics worn.
Do these numbers seem right for a bike with 18 kWhs?
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19 SR with power pack. Wind light, temp 32 degrees today. 100% to 0+ 4 miles. 95 miles total. 10.53 kWhs used. 110.5 watts per mile. Full electrics worn.
Do these numbers seem right for a bike with 18 kWhs?
You left out the most important detail. How fast were you riding?
-Don- Reno, NV
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How fast was riding. It was a mixture. About 40 mph to 45mph average. The 110 watts per mile should be the tell.
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How fast was riding. It was a mixture. About 40 mph to 45mph average. The 110 watts per mile should be the tell.
Considering the temp, I would say it probably is normal.
It would be interesting if you can do the same ride on a warm or hot day.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks
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Took the FX for another ride this weekend. The battery percentage didn't fluctuate as much this time. When I would stop and wait 5 minutes, it might go up 6% total.
At this point, I'm getting about 39 miles max out of a full charge at 35 mph average at 55 degrees temp.
I was really hoping for more than that out of this bike. Considering these numbers:
Range ZERO FX ZF7.2
City: 91 miles (146 km)
Highway @ 55 mph: 56 miles
Combined: 69 miles
Highway @ 70 mph: 39 miles
Combined: 54 miles
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Dang, that's worse range than my Alta had, at 55 degrees, I would think it would be much higher...
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I would at least discuss it with your dealer.
This seems to me a very small range for the quoted speed.... Low temp cannot account for everything (unless maybe your bike stored outside? And remains in the cold throughout night?)
I don't have an FX but my experience with my S 2017 (13kWh) is a range of > ~ 100 miles at freezing temp and at speed average well above 35mph...
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Sigh, Jarrett what is your voltage?
We told you your bike is learning your range. Don't go off your % meter as 100% fact.
Pull off to the side of the road (safely) drop your kickstand and press your throttle kill switch. That should let you see your bike's voltage on the app. For you, figure 96 volts is about dead. You should have 116V fully charged.
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What's the voltage when the bike dies while you are riding it and you have to push it back to the garage?
Whatever that is, that's the voltage I had at the end of my ride.
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ok I see.
Did you get the 2 brick bike or the long brick?
One guy had a 2 brick bike that didn't "see" the other brick so he had half the power.
If it's the long brick go to the dealer, it should have much more range than that.
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I got a case opened and logs sent to Zero.
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"Unfortunately, we could not decode your log files. You’ll have to take the bike to your local dealer to pull the log files directly from the bike."
Great...
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Yeah, that is suspiciously close to half what a ZF 7.2 gets under those conditions. Do you have a modular? Hopefully your dealer is under 15 miles away.
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No, its a 2019 7.2 non-modular FX.
Dealer is 50+ miles away. Can't just pop by.
Going to try to upload logs via another device today.
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"I was able to decode some of your logs, and I believe there is a potential safety issue with your battery that may warrant repair or replacement.
Please take it to your nearest dealer for service, and we recommend not riding or charging your motorcycle until the issue has been resolved."
Yay...
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Dropped it off at the dealer. They said they are going to replace the battery.
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Thankfully for you .. and me because I was starting to worry about the true range of an FX (I've one on order).
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Well Jarrett I guess you should go play the lottery because you have used up all your bad luck with this one.
I don't remember anyone needing a new battery from a factory fresh bike.
Sorry for my earlier comment I didn't know it had died at that range, I thought it was just showing 0% which people have riden up to 10 miles with the bike showing that.
I hope they give you a loaner so you can still ride.
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In my mind at this point, 40 miles is the real range of the FX.
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No loaner offered.
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I'd ask a little more umm demanding. But it's your call.
To be clear how fast were you going on this last trip?
If you were zipping up the freeway at 65-70mph than yes it has 40 miles range at that speed.
If you were going 45-50 it seems like the bike is only getting power from the one brick.
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I just spoke with the dealer and they said there was some sort of issue with the battery that affected power in and out of it meaning I wasn't getting full power when I was riding it (seemed like I was) and the bike wasn't getting a full charge when I charged it (despite saying 100%)
So they are replacing the battery and I guess it will have more power and range when I get it back in a week or two.
Here are the speeds from when it went dead:
(https://i.ibb.co/M7DxGWw/Capture2.jpg)(https://i.ibb.co/6J5sQt4/Capture.jpg)
You can see where it petered out at the end and I had to push it the rest of the way.
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Well crap, at least it is under warranty and the riding season is just now getting started, you'll be back on the road/trails before you know it. Sounds like you bought yours out of town, my local dealer dropped them last year so I'd be forced to travel to get one, this is the biggest drawback for me. Hope you get back on the road quick and that you get to enjoy your new bike!
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I am glad they are fixing it under warranty, but this makes me a little more concern about the reliability of the bike going forward.
I'll plan to sell it somewhere between year 2 and 5 to try and avoid potential headaches.
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Update on this. Got my FX back today with new battery installed. Took it for a 41 mile ride averaging 29 MPH. Average temp was 68 degrees. Started with 99%, ended with 24%. This is much better range than I got with the previous battery.
Not sure if it was just higher temperatures + lower average speeds that made the difference or the new battery played a factor. Either way, it looks like I could have gotten 55+ miles out of it today. Which is about 40% better range than I got with the original "bad" battery.
(https://i.ibb.co/8bnyCmv/Capture.jpg)
On a side note... I got to ride a SR/F today as well :D