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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: BamBam on March 14, 2019, 11:26:33 PM
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As I was riding home from work yesterday as part of my daily commute, I gave my DSR a little burst of throttle and heard the telltale snap and immediate rev of the motor. I knew right away that I had broken the drive belt. Luckily, it was a nice day in Cincinnati and it was on a side street near where I work. I had my daughter pick me up and then came back with my pickup truck to fetch it. I was only about 6 miles from home. It could have been a lot worse.
I bought my DSR new and only have around 3,900 miles on it. I take really good care of the belt. I keep it adjusted properly, keep it centered on the rear sprocket, and spray the belt and sprockets every couple of weeks with dry silicone. My riding is 100% asphalt so this sure seems like a premature failure to me.
I have a call into my Zero dealer and they are checking to see if Zero will cover it under warranty. I’m only looking for Zero to provide a new belt. I will take care of installing it.
If I’m only going to get around 4K miles out of the drive belt then I can see a chain conversion in the future. I don't have a lot of confidence in the belt right now. The small sprocket in the front can't be that good for it. Design issue?
I'll follow up with what Zero says when I hear back from them.
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As I was riding home from work yesterday as part of my daily commute, I gave my DSR a little burst of throttle and heard the telltale snap and immediate rev of the motor. I knew right away that I had broken the drive belt. Luckily, it was a nice day in Cincinnati and it was on a side street near where I work. I had my daughter pick me up and then came back with my pickup truck to fetch it. I was only about 6 miles from home. It could have been a lot worse.
I bought my DSR new and only have around 3,900 miles on it. I take really good care of the belt. I keep it adjusted properly, keep it centered on the rear sprocket, and spray the belt and sprockets every couple of weeks with dry silicone. My riding is 100% asphalt so this sure seems like a premature failure to me.
I have a call into my Zero dealer and they are checking to see if Zero will cover it under warranty. I’m only looking for Zero to provide a new belt. I will take care of installing it.
If I’m only going to get around 4K miles out of the drive belt then I can see a chain conversion in the future. I don't have a lot of confidence in the belt right now. The small sprocket in the front can't be that good for it. Design issue?
I'll follow up with what Zero says when I hear back from them.
I wonder if you are maintaining it “too good.†I rode my ‘15 SR 12,000 miles over three years and never touched the belt myself. Changed the tires at the Zero dealer at just under 10,000. That was the only time the rear axle was moved. If you’re riding on the street, why all the work? The whole point of a belt is to be mostly free of maintenance. “If it ain’t broke...†maybe you had a defective belt .
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Generally they're not supposed to be in the middle of the rear sprocket more toward the outside. You can measure from the swingarm pivots to the rear axle to get a really good alignment. The little hash marks are worthless. If the belt is not on totally square you will not be using the full cross section for tension and it can break a lot more easily.
Also how many times did you adjust it and how do you have to touch that thing more than once? Unless your axle nut is coming loose or you have some crazy bearing / bushing wear it should pretty much stay put.
Oh and how did you determine the tension is right?
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No, I actually didn't have to adjust it much at all. What I was trying to imply is that the belt was always maintained according to specs and best practices. Belt kept about 1mm from outside edge/lip of rear sprocket (so not quite centered) and tensioned using the Gates tension gauge per unofficial manual. I always kept the belt at the lower end of the tension spec.
No reason that I can think of why the belt should have failed this soon. I'm thinking that either the belt was defective or it was mishandled prior to being installed at the factory. I've read that these carbon reinforced belts need to be handled with care.
Geez, tough crowd.
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The belt is really unexpensive. I had lots of failure (3 in a row), which I thought at that were related to dealer's tension adjustement. But they might have defective batches...
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My FX belt is around 8000 mi and visually looks fine. I abuse it regularly by hopping speed bumps, etc. Tension is 25-30 kg.
I think yours broke because you lubricated it. Why would you do that? Chains are lubricated because they have joints of metal sliding on metal.
Lubrication would encourage the belt to skip teeth. The belt would undergo huge jolts of tension whenever that happens. And you don't want the belt sliding around. Sliding is wear; more friction is less wear.
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I’m at 8000 miles, 2016 DSR, and had my 4th belt snap last week...
One time my fault (jumping off curb), but the rest just normal riding with 70-90% acceleration. I don’t want to go a chain, but I want to be able to ride the thing without fear of not getting home every time I punch it!!!
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No, I actually didn't have to adjust it much at all. What I was trying to imply is that the belt was always maintained according to specs and best practices. Belt kept about 1mm from outside edge/lip of rear sprocket (so not quite centered) and tensioned using the Gates tension gauge per unofficial manual. I always kept the belt at the lower end of the tension spec.
No reason that I can think of why the belt should have failed this soon. I'm thinking that either the belt was defective or it was mishandled prior to being installed at the factory. I've read that these carbon reinforced belts need to be handled with care.
Geez, tough crowd.
Oh, not a tough crowd at all. (Well, except for one guy who knows who he is...and whose advice I took...I got out).
These belts should be the least of your potential worries considering all the issues some of us have had with the electronics. I agree about lubrication. Dry lube or not, one doesn’t lube a belt.
Everyone here usually wants to help if they bother to post at all.
I sold my ‘15 SR due to ongoing electronics issues unresolved after the first “firmware†update over a year prior. I never even looked at the belt in 12,000 miles.
Remember “Elegant Simplicity†is the baseline notion with these things. For the most part that means, ride it and don’t worry about it until it quits.[emoji846]
Edited: just occurred to me...when did the wider belt come out? These failures seem to be 2016+. My 2015 was the narrow one. Are the bigger belts proving to be failure prone? Certainly was not the intent.
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I am not sure that it is a good idea to lubricate the belt with anything. Some chemicals, even silicone, might affect the belt's durability. ???
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Wide belt introduced in MY2017.
I can say from experience that even the wide belt can break if a BB sized rock gets between the belt and one of the sprockets....which can happen even if you only ride on paved roads.
The design flaw is not having a good guard to protect the belt from debris.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/d3d84b8d817b5db113ca97c6d54b7838.jpg)
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That's a bummer to hear. I wonder if the higher torque models suffer from this more frequently.
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Coming up on 29k miles on the 13 DS same old belt good as new.
I agree don't put anything on it. I don't even get mine wet if I can help it.
I saw one of NEW ZEROLAND's YT videos and when the guy's belt snapped and they pulled over his axial nut was finger loose.
I don't know if that was the case or not for anyone else's breaks but everybody should check that nut with a torque wrench every so often.
It's 75 lb ft of torque which is some effort.
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What dry silicon did you use ? I wanted to reduce the noise but did not find a petroleum free silicon so i used i product made for belt dressing. It might be that your product ate the belt...
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I'm thinking you guys may be onto something with the silicone spray so I'm going to stop using that on the new belt. However, if you want to spray a little silicone on the front clog to reduce the groan noise make sure you use a product that does not contain any petroleum distillates. Most silicone sprays contain petroleum distillates so be aware of that and use caution and read the label.
I'll post some pics of my belt failure tonight when I get home from work. Mine was a clean break. Not ragged like in some of the other photos.
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When Harley started using belts on their bikes back in the early 80s, they used to sell a "belt dressing" to preserve the belt. What they discovered was that it attracted and held dirt and grit that slowly but surely wore away the belt until it snapped. Now their only recommendation is to check the tension and "eyeball" the belt regularly. Washing it with soap and water when you wash the bike, and then rinsing it thoroughly is also okay as long as you wait for the belt to be completely dry before going on a ride (if it is wet, it can hold any dirt thrown up from the road).
This is also why many of us have been asking Zero to provide upper AND lower belt guards for their bikes. I've also suggested to Harlan Flagg (Hollywood Electrics) that a lower belt guard might be a good piece for them to develop and sell. If you do any riding offroad, you're probably better off with a chain.
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Why lubricate the belt? Where does it say in the owners manual to do that? I believe that's where the problem is.
I've put over 4000 miles on my 2017 dsr and have never touched the belt.
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Why lubricate the belt? Where does it say in the owners manual to do that? I believe that's where the problem is.
I've put over 4000 miles on my 2017 dsr and have never touched the belt.
Search the Zero "Unofficial Manual".
It's not for lubrication. It's to quiet the belt noise.
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Belt noise? Just install a loud pipe and you won't hear belt noise anymore.
Oh wait...
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I bought my DSR new and only have around 3,900 miles on it. I take really good care of the belt. I keep it adjusted properly, keep it centered on the rear sprocket, and spray the belt and sprockets every couple of weeks with dry silicone. My riding is 100% asphalt so this sure seems like a premature failure to me.
If you did nothing, that would have been taking better care of the belt, IMO.
I check my tension once in a while and make sure I have about a credit card spacing between the belt and the left edge of the sprocket. No more than about 1 MM. No less than the edge of a credit card. I would never consider spraying anything on the belt. I ride my DS on unpaved roads very often.
Both my Zeros have more than 5K miles on them and I have not had any broken belts--at least not yet--knock on wood.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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According to the OFFICIAL ZERO MANUAL, it says nothing about lubricating the belt.
It only says the following.
"Check belt tension.- Inspect belt for signs of damage or cracking.Replace belt:- Every 24K mi (37K km)"
Lubricating the belt according the "unofficial manual" will certainly void any kind of warranty it may have.
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https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Belt_Groan_Sound
@Brian is this still accurate ?
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Before it was totaled last summer, I had nearly 18,000 miles on my original belt with the 2016 S. The 2018 model has a much sturdier belt so I'm assuming it'll last even longer.
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The belt recommendations in the unofficial manual are compiled from the forums, and in no way are subject to enough statistical scrutiny.
Perhaps the indication of suitability of the silicone spray is overstated, or we should say that if you use it, do so sparingly with a long interval.
I've never used it, honestly, and tend to err on the side of doing as little to the belt as possible other than verifying alignment and cleaning the sprockets with a soft brush. I also let my belts run on the loose side of tension specifications, assuming that the play will be taken up by the occasional light debris, but I also don't optimize for high-torque situations.
FWIW my original DSR belt lasted about 31k miles before it snapped as I traveled over a pothole. My 2013 DS belt seemed fine at 26k miles.
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Maybe it would be wise to add a warning on this part...
The belt recommendations in the unofficial manual are compiled from the forums, and in no way are subject to enough statistical scrutiny.
Perhaps the indication of suitability of the silicone spray is overstated, or we should say that if you use it, do so sparingly with a long interval.
I've never used it, honestly, and tend to err on the side of doing as little to the belt as possible other than verifying alignment and cleaning the sprockets with a soft brush. I also let my belts run on the loose side of tension specifications, assuming that the play will be taken up by the occasional light debris, but I also don't optimize for high-torque situations.
FWIW my original DSR belt lasted about 31k miles before it snapped as I traveled over a pothole. My 2013 DS belt seemed fine at 26k miles.
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I suppose, but what would I warn? We don't have a clear causal link here. It already says "light application" and "should last a few months".
The use of the spray is at the bottom of a page for dealing with belt groan. I'll see what I can do to further de-emphasize it. I can try implying that there's a risk involved but I'm not sure what the risk is so it's hard to form a reasonable message.
I may just cite this thread, I suppose.
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Agree. Maybe emphasis that the purpose is not to grease the belt itself (I must admit I did it after reading this part of the manual too quickly, but with a belt dressing product so that I am sure it does not do any harm).
I suppose, but what would I warn? We don't have a clear causal link here. It already says "light application" and "should last a few months".
The use of the spray is at the bottom of a page for dealing with belt groan. I'll see what I can do to further de-emphasize it. I can try implying that there's a risk involved but I'm not sure what the risk is so it's hard to form a reasonable message.
I may just cite this thread, I suppose.
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Hello.
Hello, my first post here. After reading the problems with the belt on the Zero's, just an idea: years ago I have had a few Harleys, and my last one was the first model with a belt. After buying that one I took a closer look at the belt and the (rear) sprocket, and realised a possible problem. I don't remember the exact dimensions, but let's say that the teeth on the belt were 8 mm high, and the groove in the sprocket was 12 mm deep, which means (in this example) that everything that is caught between the sprocket and the belt that is more than 4 mm high will give a small crack or at least tension to the belt, in my view. I thought that sooner or later this might result in a failure. A good example are the little stones that they spread on new tarmac, they have the "ideal" dimensions to fit into the sprocket-pockets and are somewhat sticky due to the asphalt, so they are there to stay. I had to remove a few of these during the two or three years I had that bike, even though it had a cover over the belt's lower part.
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Good points from both posts above. I’ll see what I can do with the unofficial recommendations and will link this thread.
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According to the OFFICIAL ZERO MANUAL, it says nothing about lubricating the belt.
It only says the following.
"Check belt tension.- Inspect belt for signs of damage or cracking.Replace belt:- Every 24K mi (37K km)"
Actually it says
Replace belt:
- DSR: every 16K mi (25K km).
- S/SR/DS: every 24K mi (37K km).
I just had my 2nd belt failure with @ 19k miles on the belt (2016 DSR).
In my case I can't see the difference between a DSR & SR as I've kept it on the road with few exceptions.
Will change the belt proactively @ 16k to reduce these unplesent surprises.
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Actually it says
Replace belt:
- DSR: every 16K mi (25K km).
- S/SR/DS: every 24K mi (37K km).
I just had my 2nd belt failure with @ 19k miles on the belt (2016 DSR).
In my case I can't see the difference between a DSR & SR as I've kept it on the road with few exceptions.
Will change the belt proactively @ 16k to reduce these unplesent surprises.
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That's strange! My owners manual doesn't show different intervals. I wonder if they changed the spec somewhere along the way. Maybe a heavier duty belt at some point. Good advise though. No point waiting till the last minute.
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Does anyone regularly ride offroad with a belt?
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I had to put my old 2008 KLR650 back into service for commuting while I wait for the new belt to come in. I rode it to work today and hadn't been on the bike in almost two years. The thing feels like a big, wallowing, slow, fat pig compared to my DSR. I couldn't believe the difference. And then there were the fumes and noise to deal with. It really reinforced my position that I will never go back to an ICE bike for commuting. I still have my Valkyrie for touring and longer trips, which I will never get rid of.
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I had to put my old 2008 KLR650 back into service for commuting while I wait for the new belt to come in. I rode it to work today and hadn't been on the bike in almost two years. The thing feels like a big, wallowing, slow, fat pig compared to my DSR. I couldn't believe the difference. And then there were the fumes and noise to deal with. It really reinforced my position that I will never go back to an ICE bike for commuting. I still have my Valkyrie for touring and longer trips, which I will never get rid of.
Haha, totally! I have to keep an ICE bike for long range dual sporting and another for adventure touring (Super Tenere). They are not often ridden, but when I do... man, so nasty and unrefined. Fortunately the effect only lasts a few minutes before it fades and feels natural again.
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I'm just happy "muscle memory" comes back so quickly for shifting/clutching work!
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Yeah, only took a day to re-acclimate to the KLR. I think she was just glad to be ridden again. I still love the old girl, even if she is a pig.
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After 3 years of experience with different ZEROs, our conclusions are:
- wear is 1st depending on the throttle use. SR/DSR using full torque, narrow belt, last 10K km, S with eco ride last 25K km
- we haven't change any wide belt yet, low mileage. Sure it will last more..
- as we have very short highways, steady speed is not common, plus more dust so no narrow belt can last 40K km.
- I suggest any owner with no dealer nearby to get one spare belt. Changing it is not very complex, about 1 hour because of the swingarm removal.
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I finally got around to installing the new belt on my DSR. Haven't taken it for a test ride yet, but I'm sure all is well. Zero was gracious enough to cover the cost of the belt and then I installed it myself.
The procedure was fairy easy and straight forward. The space between the frame and the front pulley where the swing arm needs to fit though was very tight so I had to coax the swing arm a little bit with a rubber mallet.
One watch out when removing and reinstalling the rear wheel. There is a small rubber bushing that goes in the hub on the right side of the wheel. I removed it and set it aside since I didn't want to lose it, but forgot to put it back in the wheel when I reinstalled it. I thought something was wrong when the gap between the wheel and the swing arm seemed excessive. Then I remembered the bushing.
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The procedure was fairy easy and straight forward. The space between the frame and the front pulley where the swing arm needs to fit though was very tight so I had to coax the swing arm a little bit with a rubber mallet.
Swingarm didn't have to come out ? Impressive! I wonder if they changed the dimensions there at some point, as I had to take it out on 2014 DS for belt replacement.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, I had to remove the swing arm. It was a tight fit to get the swing arm to slide past the frame and pulley so I had use a rubber mallet to help force it out.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, I had to remove the swing arm. It was a tight fit to get the swing arm to slide past the frame and pulley so I had use a rubber mallet to help force it out.
Ah, pity.
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BamBam, which year & model has a rubber bushing?? My 2016 SR has a METAL spacer on the LEFT hand side...
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My mistake. The rubber bushing goes on the left side of the hub. The ABS sensor is on the right side. It's a 2017 DSR.
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My mistake. The rubber bushing goes on the left side of the hub. The ABS sensor is on the right side. It's a 2017 DSR.
I was going to comment on that too. The bushing on the left side is metal, not rubber.
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I was going to comment on that too. The bushing on the left side is metal, not rubber.
Yes , it could very well be metal. I was black so I assumed it was a hard rubber. Also had my shop gloves on so hard to tell by feel. It's Zero part #23-07489 referred to as a spacer.
The point is, it's easy to forget to reinstall the spacer it if it happens to fall out.
Edit: BTW, commuted to work today for first time with the new belt. I was surprised how quiet it was. I thought I would have to go through the normal break in period to get rid of the usual new belt moans and groans, but it's pretty quiet right out of the box. I'm going to be sure not to apply any kind of spray silicone to the new belt.
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[ I'm going to be sure not to apply any kind of spray silicone to the new belt.
I would only trust plan fresh water on the belt. Anything else is taking a chance, IMO.
-Don-